Maximizing calorie burn during cardio

cwolfman13

Hi friends,

I do cardio classes at my gym a couple days a week like spin, a kick boxing type class or step. The classes generally run around 55 mins and my HRM always indicates around 560-580 calories burned. Whether I am taking it easy, or really pushing hard, I never seem to be able to increase that number (since losing weight).

So I'm wondering, is there a maximum calorie burn you should aim for when doing cardio? I seem to recall hearing something like 10 calories per minute is good, but I might have read that on the Internet so god knows if it was right. Hoping some more educated people around here can help.

For the record, I think I am somewhat fit, 5'9" and 195 lbs.

Personally, calorie burn is just a nice bi-product of exercise. I don't exercise for calorie burn though...I exercise for my fitness and to meet specific fitness goals. I don't even look at my calorie burn anymore....I use the TDEE method and set it and forget it...30 lbs down and fitness level going through the roof.

scottb81

I get what you're all saying about running, which is cool. But what would an ideal calorie burn per minute be?

(not per mile)

It's impossible to put a number to it because besides weight it is dependant on the exercise and the individual's fitness level.

For me 13 calories per minute is ideal because it is easily sustainable day after day for pretty much as long as I want to keep going.

If you want to burn more calories you have to pick a harder exercise and develop the aerobic fitness needed for the large muscle groups in the legs to work harder at a lower exertion level.

Cyclink

I do cardio classes at my gym a couple days a week like spin, a kick boxing type class or step. The classes generally run around 55 mins and my HRM always indicates around 560-580 calories burned. Whether I am taking it easy, or really pushing hard, I never seem to be able to increase that number (since losing weight).

The problem is not with you but with the measurement. The heart rate monitor is guessing at the calories you burn in that hour by the number of time your heart beats, which is only minimally associates with the number of calories you burn.

If you have the same average heart rate for an hour, your heart rate monitor will report back more or less the same number, no matter how many calories you actually burned.

So I'm wondering, is there a maximum calorie burn you should aim for when doing cardio?

There is, but it's a lot higher than you think.

The most calories you can burn is dependent on a number of things. Your VO2max (the maximum amount of oxygen your body can deliver to the muscles and process per minute) is one. Your functional threshold (also called lactate threshold, onset of blood lactate, and anaerobic threshold) is another.

The highest VO2max ever recorded was about 7 liters per minute. Each liter is roughly 5 calories. So a world record holding athlete can burn 35 calories per minute for 5 minutes (then he will collapse and need to recover). An average, moderately trained female will do about 3 liters per minute. That's a maximum 15 calories per minute for 5 minutes before you need a break. Most heart monitors tell you far more than that.

To put times on them, the VO2max is roughly the hardest you can go for five minutes. The functional threshold is the hardest you can go for an hour. (I know, I'm oversimplifying, but I'm also not trying to write a treatise on aerobic energy delivery). Athletes spend their entire career trying to raise their VO2max and to sustain a higher percentage of it at functional threshold.

The "hardest" measurements that I mentioned are not measured in heart rate. If you keep working harder, you will never see a heart rate of 280 beats per minute. Instead, your heart becomes more efficient, pumping more blood per beat and putting more oxygen into the blood. The intensity must be measured in something more absolute, like power (wattage) or speed (under controlled conditions). Usually they are tested on a treadmill or a bike with the speed being gradually increased every minute until you cannot go any faster.

Burning more calories means going harder on an absolute scale (like speed or power), not a relative one (like heart rate), for the entire hour. Unfortunately, as you get fitter, your heart rate monitor cannot tell the difference. When you get fitter, you go faster at the same heart rate (whether you get leaner or not).

denezy

Hi friends,

I do cardio classes at my gym a couple days a week like spin, a kick boxing type class or step. The classes generally run around 55 mins and my HRM always indicates around 560-580 calories burned. Whether I am taking it easy, or really pushing hard, I never seem to be able to increase that number (since losing weight).

So I'm wondering, is there a maximum calorie burn you should aim for when doing cardio? I seem to recall hearing something like 10 calories per minute is good, but I might have read that on the Internet so god knows if it was right. Hoping some more educated people around here can help.

For the record, I think I am somewhat fit, 5'9" and 195 lbs.

Personally, calorie burn is just a nice bi-product of exercise. I don't exercise for calorie burn though...I exercise for my fitness and to meet specific fitness goals. I don't even look at my calorie burn anymore....I use the TDEE method and set it and forget it...30 lbs down and fitness level going through the roof.

Me too, It is just my nature to look at something tangible for improvement and the number on my watch seems the easiest place to start.

TAsunder

Cool. I believe that the after burn is better on HIIT and hard fast runs vs just a nice slower paced run. Makes sense. But, I haven't seen any research concluded on that aspect of it.

After I posted that I tried to find some convincing articles. I found more articles that say this is true according to research than those that don't, but the ones that say it doesn't work that way seem to be more recent. So, as with anything, the answer is... who the heck knows?

denezy

hmmm no one going to point out that 500+ calories is a huge amount of burn? if you actually are burning that much, you should be super happy.

p.s. heart rate monitors are notoriously inaccurate at calculating calories burned.

Yes, thanks. It is a good burn and I am aware that it may be wholly inaccurate, I just feel like it is a metric I can I look to as I have always used it as a measuring tool for performance.

denezy

Also depletion levels help as well. I noticed that if I did one cardio workout, other workouts were much easier to get that heart rate up.


For example today I did kenpo x, took a 15 minute break, then did insanity plyometrics. I was able to get my heart rate up to a much higher level than if I just did the one workout.

This is very true, as a portion of the class is obviously dedicated to "warm up" and "cool down". I will do a double tomorrow and report back what happens.

denezy

Congratulations you are in shape!

TL;DR,
Your heart (and other muscles) isn't having to work as hard to maintain a certain level of effort. I suppose all you can really do is step up the intensity level of your workouts or increase the time spent working out.

Longer explanation:

I see a few factors here:
1. Since you lost weight your muscles do not have to move as much mass through space.
2. By moving your mass through space over time you likely have more muscle, which makes moving less mass easier.

Consider both of these factors when evaluating your goals. If you want to maintain your weight don't worry too much about the number of calories you are burning, just keep burning them. If you want to step up your performance, train at a higher intensity\longer period of time.

Awesome! Your post was super helpful. Thank you!

Once I start doing longer bike rides and races in a month or two i think I'll be able to judge an improvement in fitness over last year.

I am on MFP solely for the purpose of improving performance, which I have noticed over time. Always have to improve, ya know?

Warchortle

There is no best cardio. The best cardio is probably the one that engages the most muscle groups at the highest heart rate for YOU. There have been studies that once you exercise over a certain amount of time the "value" of the exercise diminishes. I think it's over 2.5 hours of exercise, but I can't remember off hand. Why does it even matter? If your heart is healthy cardio only really serves to modify your caloric intake.

You don't gain muscle with extensive cardio, so... lift weights?

SarahBeth0625

I do sprints on the elliptical where I turn the level up really high so I have to work harder to go faster... and then I shoot for 30 second sprints every 2-3 minutes where I go super fast.

denezy

I do cardio classes at my gym a couple days a week like spin, a kick boxing type class or step. The classes generally run around 55 mins and my HRM always indicates around 560-580 calories burned. Whether I am taking it easy, or really pushing hard, I never seem to be able to increase that number (since losing weight).

The problem is not with you but with the measurement. The heart rate monitor is guessing at the calories you burn in that hour by the number of time your heart beats, which is only minimally associates with the number of calories you burn.

If you have the same average heart rate for an hour, your heart rate monitor will report back more or less the same number, no matter how many calories you actually burned.

So I'm wondering, is there a maximum calorie burn you should aim for when doing cardio?

There is, but it's a lot higher than you think.

The most calories you can burn is dependent on a number of things. Your VO2max (the maximum amount of oxygen your body can deliver to the muscles and process per minute) is one. Your functional threshold (also called lactate threshold, onset of blood lactate, and anaerobic threshold) is another.

The highest VO2max ever recorded was about 7 liters per minute. Each liter is roughly 5 calories. So a world record holding athlete can burn 35 calories per minute for 5 minutes (then he will collapse and need to recover). An average, moderately trained female will do about 3 liters per minute. That's a maximum 15 calories per minute for 5 minutes before you need a break. Most heart monitors tell you far more than that.

To put times on them, the VO2max is roughly the hardest you can go for five minutes. The functional threshold is the hardest you can go for an hour. (I know, I'm oversimplifying, but I'm also not trying to write a treatise on aerobic energy delivery). Athletes spend their entire career trying to raise their VO2max and to sustain a higher percentage of it at functional threshold.

The "hardest" measurements that I mentioned are not measured in heart rate. If you keep working harder, you will never see a heart rate of 280 beats per minute. Instead, your heart becomes more efficient, pumping more blood per beat and putting more oxygen into the blood. The intensity must be measured in something more absolute, like power (wattage) or speed (under controlled conditions). Usually they are tested on a treadmill or a bike with the speed being gradually increased every minute until you cannot go any faster.

Burning more calories means going harder on an absolute scale (like speed or power), not a relative one (like heart rate), for the entire hour. Unfortunately, as you get fitter, your heart rate monitor cannot tell the difference. When you get fitter, you go faster at the same heart rate (whether you get leaner or not).

You win for the most helpful response, thank you!

So basically, I'll never know on my own? K cool thx.

TAsunder

I do cardio classes at my gym a couple days a week like spin, a kick boxing type class or step. The classes generally run around 55 mins and my HRM always indicates around 560-580 calories burned. Whether I am taking it easy, or really pushing hard, I never seem to be able to increase that number (since losing weight).

The problem is not with you but with the measurement. The heart rate monitor is guessing at the calories you burn in that hour by the number of time your heart beats, which is only minimally associates with the number of calories you burn.

If you have the same average heart rate for an hour, your heart rate monitor will report back more or less the same number, no matter how many calories you actually burned.

So I'm wondering, is there a maximum calorie burn you should aim for when doing cardio?

There is, but it's a lot higher than you think.

The most calories you can burn is dependent on a number of things. Your VO2max (the maximum amount of oxygen your body can deliver to the muscles and process per minute) is one. Your functional threshold (also called lactate threshold, onset of blood lactate, and anaerobic threshold) is another.

The highest VO2max ever recorded was about 7 liters per minute. Each liter is roughly 5 calories. So a world record holding athlete can burn 35 calories per minute for 5 minutes (then he will collapse and need to recover). An average, moderately trained female will do about 3 liters per minute. That's a maximum 15 calories per minute for 5 minutes before you need a break. Most heart monitors tell you far more than that.

To put times on them, the VO2max is roughly the hardest you can go for five minutes. The functional threshold is the hardest you can go for an hour. (I know, I'm oversimplifying, but I'm also not trying to write a treatise on aerobic energy delivery). Athletes spend their entire career trying to raise their VO2max and to sustain a higher percentage of it at functional threshold.

The "hardest" measurements that I mentioned are not measured in heart rate. If you keep working harder, you will never see a heart rate of 280 beats per minute. Instead, your heart becomes more efficient, pumping more blood per beat and putting more oxygen into the blood. The intensity must be measured in something more absolute, like power (wattage) or speed (under controlled conditions). Usually they are tested on a treadmill or a bike with the speed being gradually increased every minute until you cannot go any faster.

Burning more calories means going harder on an absolute scale (like speed or power), not a relative one (like heart rate), for the entire hour. Unfortunately, as you get fitter, your heart rate monitor cannot tell the difference. When you get fitter, you go faster at the same heart rate (whether you get leaner or not).

You win for the most helpful response, thank you!

So basically, I'll never know on my own? K cool thx.

You will know through trial and error over the long term what your target calories per minute should be. If you try to burn more calories per minute and then your body is too sore/tired/weak the next day to go in, then that's above your max calories per minute you should target if you are going to exercise for the same amount of time since over two days you are actually burning half as many calories per minute.

Figs318

If your goal is to maximize calorie burn then you need to run. No other exercise burns more calories per minute than running.

I weigh 173 lbs and burn around 13 calories per minute running at an effort level that I can easily maintain for over 2 hours when I want to go that long.

..

denezy

I do cardio classes at my gym a couple days a week like spin, a kick boxing type class or step. The classes generally run around 55 mins and my HRM always indicates around 560-580 calories burned. Whether I am taking it easy, or really pushing hard, I never seem to be able to increase that number (since losing weight).

The problem is not with you but with the measurement. The heart rate monitor is guessing at the calories you burn in that hour by the number of time your heart beats, which is only minimally associates with the number of calories you burn.

If you have the same average heart rate for an hour, your heart rate monitor will report back more or less the same number, no matter how many calories you actually burned.

So I'm wondering, is there a maximum calorie burn you should aim for when doing cardio?

There is, but it's a lot higher than you think.

The most calories you can burn is dependent on a number of things. Your VO2max (the maximum amount of oxygen your body can deliver to the muscles and process per minute) is one. Your functional threshold (also called lactate threshold, onset of blood lactate, and anaerobic threshold) is another.

The highest VO2max ever recorded was about 7 liters per minute. Each liter is roughly 5 calories. So a world record holding athlete can burn 35 calories per minute for 5 minutes (then he will collapse and need to recover). An average, moderately trained female will do about 3 liters per minute. That's a maximum 15 calories per minute for 5 minutes before you need a break. Most heart monitors tell you far more than that.

To put times on them, the VO2max is roughly the hardest you can go for five minutes. The functional threshold is the hardest you can go for an hour. (I know, I'm oversimplifying, but I'm also not trying to write a treatise on aerobic energy delivery). Athletes spend their entire career trying to raise their VO2max and to sustain a higher percentage of it at functional threshold.

The "hardest" measurements that I mentioned are not measured in heart rate. If you keep working harder, you will never see a heart rate of 280 beats per minute. Instead, your heart becomes more efficient, pumping more blood per beat and putting more oxygen into the blood. The intensity must be measured in something more absolute, like power (wattage) or speed (under controlled conditions). Usually they are tested on a treadmill or a bike with the speed being gradually increased every minute until you cannot go any faster.

Burning more calories means going harder on an absolute scale (like speed or power), not a relative one (like heart rate), for the entire hour. Unfortunately, as you get fitter, your heart rate monitor cannot tell the difference. When you get fitter, you go faster at the same heart rate (whether you get leaner or not).

You win for the most helpful response, thank you!

So basically, I'll never know on my own? K cool thx.

You will know through trial and error over the long term what your target calories per minute should be. If you try to burn more calories per minute and then your body is too sore/tired/weak the next day to go in, then that's above your max calories per minute you should target if you are going to exercise for the same amount of time since over two days you are actually burning half as many calories per minute.

Too weak to work out? Sorry, I don't know what that means.

JustJennie1

If your goal is to maximize calorie burn then you need to run. No other exercise burns more calories per minute than running.

I weigh 173 lbs and burn around 13 calories per minute running at an effort level that I can easily maintain for over 2 hours when I want to go that long.

Disagree.

Depending on how fast I run, where I run, the terrain, etc. my calorie burn can be significantly different. Slower run will be less calories. Faster run will be more. Running outside up hills will burn more calories. Also it depends on the length of time as well as speed that I'm running. I can run for an hour at a 9:30 minute mile burn significantly less calories than if I were to run for the same amount of time at an 8 or 7:30 minute mile.

Cyclink

You win for the most helpful response, thank you!

So basically, I'll never know on my own? K cool thx.

Well thanks :-)

As long as you are doing aerobic classes, you won't know for sure. If you start using a treadmill, running with a GPS, or doing something else with accurate measuring abilities, you will at least have more data to compare.

mountaingirl2207

I am just a little bit taller than you. I shoot for in excess of 10 Cal per minute. If my cals are keeping pace or passing my time, I'm doing good. I was running, but jogging couldn't get my heart rate up high enough without sprinting, and sprinting made me feel like crap, so I switched to the elliptical. Now I do around an hour on there, burn somewhere in the neighborhood of 750-800 calories. I crank the intensity up as high as I can stand and my hr stays way up the whole time.

TAsunder

I do cardio classes at my gym a couple days a week like spin, a kick boxing type class or step. The classes generally run around 55 mins and my HRM always indicates around 560-580 calories burned. Whether I am taking it easy, or really pushing hard, I never seem to be able to increase that number (since losing weight).

The problem is not with you but with the measurement. The heart rate monitor is guessing at the calories you burn in that hour by the number of time your heart beats, which is only minimally associates with the number of calories you burn.

If you have the same average heart rate for an hour, your heart rate monitor will report back more or less the same number, no matter how many calories you actually burned.

So I'm wondering, is there a maximum calorie burn you should aim for when doing cardio?

There is, but it's a lot higher than you think.

The most calories you can burn is dependent on a number of things. Your VO2max (the maximum amount of oxygen your body can deliver to the muscles and process per minute) is one. Your functional threshold (also called lactate threshold, onset of blood lactate, and anaerobic threshold) is another.

The highest VO2max ever recorded was about 7 liters per minute. Each liter is roughly 5 calories. So a world record holding athlete can burn 35 calories per minute for 5 minutes (then he will collapse and need to recover). An average, moderately trained female will do about 3 liters per minute. That's a maximum 15 calories per minute for 5 minutes before you need a break. Most heart monitors tell you far more than that.

To put times on them, the VO2max is roughly the hardest you can go for five minutes. The functional threshold is the hardest you can go for an hour. (I know, I'm oversimplifying, but I'm also not trying to write a treatise on aerobic energy delivery). Athletes spend their entire career trying to raise their VO2max and to sustain a higher percentage of it at functional threshold.

The "hardest" measurements that I mentioned are not measured in heart rate. If you keep working harder, you will never see a heart rate of 280 beats per minute. Instead, your heart becomes more efficient, pumping more blood per beat and putting more oxygen into the blood. The intensity must be measured in something more absolute, like power (wattage) or speed (under controlled conditions). Usually they are tested on a treadmill or a bike with the speed being gradually increased every minute until you cannot go any faster.

Burning more calories means going harder on an absolute scale (like speed or power), not a relative one (like heart rate), for the entire hour. Unfortunately, as you get fitter, your heart rate monitor cannot tell the difference. When you get fitter, you go faster at the same heart rate (whether you get leaner or not).

You win for the most helpful response, thank you!

So basically, I'll never know on my own? K cool thx.

You will know through trial and error over the long term what your target calories per minute should be. If you try to burn more calories per minute and then your body is too sore/tired/weak the next day to go in, then that's above your max calories per minute you should target if you are going to exercise for the same amount of time since over two days you are actually burning half as many calories per minute.

Too weak to work out? Sorry, I don't know what that means.

I don't recommend it. I was too weak last Friday. I had an upcoming belt test in my martial arts class so I added 4 hours of martial arts to my usual routine. Normally I'd workout on Friday but I was too weak. I almost passed out every time I stood up and felt like jello legs. Fortunately I recovered in time for the test the next day. It was pretty scary.