Keep dieting or bulk?

cwolfman13

Ok, here's the deal. My original goal weight was around 180 Lbs...I'm down to about 182/183 right now. I have subsequently changed my goals given the success I've had in losing 30ish Lbs. In my prime I was about 175 give or take and 15% BF...I'd like to be there again as that was where I felt very comfortable...not skinny...just nice and muscular.

At my current height and weight (5'10" @ 183) and my measurements, I'm at 21.3 % BF...I use the fat2fit radio calculator and it tells me that I would need to weigh around 169 Lbs to achieve 15% BF...@ 169 I feel like I'm going to be pretty damned skinny...not exactly what I'm shooting for.

So, here's the question...do I keep dieting all the way down until I hit 15% BF and then start doing bulks and cuts until I get back to where I want to be or do I stop dieting around 175 and do bulks and cuts from there?

I'm currently at about 1/2 Lb per week weight loss so I figure I'll be down to 175 in a few months...I'm thinking July time frame at my current rate. I'm a planner, so I've started thinking about this a lot lately, especially since I've been hitting the weight room pretty hard.

Here's some pics of where I've been and where I'm at...any help is appreciated...

SideSteel

Great job so far!

If I were in your shoes I would continue cutting and revisit when you think you are approaching the mid teens for bodyfat.

Bakkasan

Here is a fat *kitten* opinion. I am a former tub o lard, now just a fat *kitten*. Eat slightly above maintenance(like 500) and continue hitting the weights. Given you do not have any metabolic disorders or hormonal imbalances which are not corrected, you should continue to lean out while building some muscle.

cwolfman13

Thanks guys....

SS...that's what I was thinking initially...but then I started to wonder if I was going to look too damned skinny. Honestly, I have some body issues due to having been underweight and very, very skinny for much of my life. It took a great deal of work to go from about 135 Lbs @ 18 years old to 175 and 15% BF at around 25 years old....too bad I dropped out of the weight room and kept eating like I was bulking and lifting.

Bakkasan...that's kind of what I'm leaning towards right now...but I'll probably wait until I hit 175 or so...that should put me in the 18-19% BF range.

Guess I have some thinking to do.

BusyRaeNOTBusty

As a woman, I wouldn't advise getting any leaner than you are without adding some muscle back. I personally prefer higher body fat to skinny men with no muscle.

But I'd also advise hanging out at maintenance for a month or two before bulking.

cwolfman13

As a woman, I wouldn't advise getting any leaner than you are without adding some muscle back. I personally prefer higher body fat to skinny men with no muscle.

But I'd also advise hanging out at maintenance for a month or two before bulking.

Good to know...my wife actually asked me when I was going to stop dieting...I'm about the same size now as when I met her...maybe a few Lbs heavier.

Thanks

cwolfman13

Also, any thoughts on "clean bulking"....how impossible is it?

cwolfman13

Bump

NRBreit

IMO, you'll achieve best results by cutting to mid-teen's BF% and then bulking. Have it measured via calipers in you are just using F2F calculations. I have the same problem as you. Most people think I look better in clothes at 180-185 with 15-18% body fat than I do at 170-175 with 10-12% BF.

Sarauk2sf

I am with SideSteel here and would continue cutting for a while longer.

How long have you been lifting for? What program are you doing?

waldo56

Also, any thoughts on "clean bulking"....how impossible is it?

It isn't impossible, but its pretty much impossible for anyone not in the low teens of BF%. The ultralean tend to gain fat real easy with excess calorie, and the fat tend to gain fat real easy with excess calories. Lean but not too lean is where you can build muscle at a very high efficiency with very little fat gain, IF you gain at slow and controlled pace.

Right now keep cutting.

NRBreit

Also, any thoughts on "clean bulking"....how impossible is it?

I just did my first bulk/cut cycle eating very clean. I gained 15 lbs. in 15 weeks. Body fat increased 2-3%. Waist size increased 2". I had to cut 10 lbs. to get my waist size back to where it started. I'm sure everyone is different but that was my experience.

I have no direct experience here, but you could try 'clean bulking' by targeting a slower weight gain (such as 1/2 pound per week), but I've heard that may slow muscle gains.

cwolfman13

I am with SideSteel here and would continue cutting for a while longer.

How long have you been lifting for? What program are you doing?

I've been lifting since Nov/Dec time frame...I started right around Thanksgiving. I'm doing Starting Strength.

Martucha123

one more vote for cuting. even very clean bulk will result in fat gain

Sarauk2sf

I am with SideSteel here and would continue cutting for a while longer.

How long have you been lifting for? What program are you doing?

I've been lifting since Nov/Dec time frame...I started right around Thanksgiving. I'm doing Starting Strength.

I would definitely keep cutting then. If you have only been lifting for a few months, and especially at your current BF%, you can take advantage of newbie gains while losing BF.

Also, you will still be gaining strength at a good rate, and will be continuing to get your form down.

I would keep at a deficit for a few more months at least, make some 'newb' gains and get yourself set with your lifting to make it more efficient when you do bulk.

waldo56

Also, any thoughts on "clean bulking"....how impossible is it?

I just did my first bulk/cut cycle eating very clean. I gained 15 lbs. in 15 weeks. Body fat increased 2-3%. Waist size increased 2". I had to cut 10 lbs. to get my waist size back to where it started. I'm sure everyone is different but that was my experience.

I have no direct experience here, but you could try 'clean bulking' by targeting a slower weight gain (such as 1/2 pound per week), but I've heard that may slow muscle gains.

Its also highly genetic and highly related to how close you are to your ceiling (and also drugs, if you're into that sort of thing).

*Edit* - Also related to how strong you are relative to your muscle mass, if you're still making linear strength gains bulking will be a lot dirtier, you just aren't strong enough to maximally stimulate your muscles.

I just finished my second bulk. First go 'round I gained about 11 lbs muscle and 3 lbs fat. Second time I gained 7 lb muscle and 3 lb fat.

I don't bother with the whole eating clean nonsense. Eating clean doesn't keep the fat off when bulking. The only thing I do that I think makes a big difference is doing a fair amount of LOW intensity cardio (walking//light jogging).

I try to gain at around 0.8 lbs/wk and am in the low teens of BF%.

cwolfman13

I am with SideSteel here and would continue cutting for a while longer.

How long have you been lifting for? What program are you doing?

I've been lifting since Nov/Dec time frame...I started right around Thanksgiving. I'm doing Starting Strength.

I would definitely keep cutting then. If you have only been lifting for a few months, and especially at your current BF%, you can take advantage of newbie gains while losing BF.

Also, you will still be gaining strength at a good rate, and will be continuing to get your form down.

I would keep at a deficit for a few more months at least, make some 'newb' gains and get yourself set with your lifting to make it more efficient when you do bulk.

Thanks....I think I'm leaning towards getting down around 17% or so and going from there...that should be July/August time frame all things being the same...that should put me somewhere between 170-175. I have a very difficult time even contemplating going below 175 because of previous body issues and being too skinny...guess it's just something I'm going to have to deal with. Honestly, it's one of the big reasons I got fat in the first place...I decided I'd rather be fat than skinny...didn't think about the health implications that I'm dealing with now...but have thankfully thwarted for the moment.

waldo56

I have a very difficult time even contemplating going below 175 because of previous body issues and being too skinny...guess it's just something I'm going to have to deal with. Honestly, it's one of the big reasons I got fat in the first place...I decided I'd rather be fat than skinny...didn't think about the health implications that I'm dealing with now...but have thankfully thwarted for the moment.

Damn, I could have written that a year and a half ago.

bpotts44

I'm current 5'9" and 172 lbs about 12-14% BF. I feel and look much better now than when I was at 180. I'd advise like SS said. Keep cutting until you get to goal BF then try bulking. I've been doing IF leangains style adding muscle and losing fat for quite some time so that is probably possible as well.

SideSteel

I know you like to plan but in your case, being new to training, I would suggest you just focus on the process and don't attempt to peg a stopping point. You don't know what you will look like 10 lbs from now.

All that matters right now is that you keep your deficit reasonable, crush it in the weight room, and observe results.

You will eventually reach a point where bulking is the right plan. I don't think now is the time.

SJ46

I don't have any answers to your questions but I wanted to stop by to say - Semper Fi!

grantdumas7

I think you should get your bf down to 10-12% before bulking.

cwolfman13

Thanks everyone...think I'll just keep on keepin' on with my slow cut.

StaticEntropy

I wouldn't bulk. Reducing bf to the low teens would be my suggestion. I know the concern of being too skinny (I am 5'10" like you and have a phobia of going under 180 lbs), but you can fix that later by adding more muscle to your frame. Whatever you do, keep lifting progressively heavier. You might find that you aren't as skinny as you think at 169 lbs.

MelStren

Here is a fat *kitten* opinion. I am a former tub o lard, now just a fat *kitten*. Eat slightly above maintenance(like 500) and continue hitting the weights. Given you do not have any metabolic disorders or hormonal imbalances which are not corrected, you should continue to lean out while building some muscle.

This! I also love how losing weight takes years off your face! You look 10 to 15yrs younger now! Congrats to you!

cwolfman13

Ok...went for a nice 3 mile run at lunch to really get deep down into my own head. New Goal is set...I'm going to get down to around 12-13% before I do anything. That should put me around 165 Lbs or so. I figure that way I'm going to have some wiggle room with the fat. As I think about it, I recall that I often was in the 15-17% range around 175 Lbs and then would slim down for the summer and beach time in San Diego to around 10-12% and I'd be in the high 160s. Looks like when it's all said and done for the cut, I'll be pretty much 12 months in and 50 Lbs down when I get to goal.

Thanks again everyone...