Wits end about Carbs

Barneystinson

I get what you are saying about some people like it and some don't. I guess you will find that there will be 'flame wars' as you say in places like this about these topics. I agree with you that some people find low carb diets 'work for them' to lose weight. But the long term effects of low carb diets are terrible - possibly more so (although less researched) than obesity. I guess that's not what most health professionals consider as 'working' so it frustrates us to see these things thrown about on here as though they are gospel.

Again, YMMV. My cholesterol (not only total level, but HDL, LDL) checks out, BP 110/70, fasting BG 80-90 mg/dl, adequate levels of vitamin D in my blood. It's a rarity for me to get sick (outside of some seasonal allergy woes). Cholesterol levels can be skewed depending on the type of test utilized and the doctor's own knowledge of what the numbers mean. VAP tests are the most accurate. I need to have another done as my last was one year ago.

I get regular check-ups - my doctor is a supporter of how I eat, some doctors aren't. Like with any means of eating, it's not a free pass to pig out on fat and processed meat, hence why most low carb diets have such a terrible medical stigma.

And unfortunately most medical reviews of "arterycloggingsaturatedfat" as I call it are skewed - they're typically a review of those eating a high saturated fat diet ALONG with high refined carbohydrate content. You can't have it both ways. I'm sure I would have terrible medical stats if my fat content was coming from processed foods and trash, too.

lilmissy2

Most doctors couldn't tell you any reliable nutrition facts and you can't really blame them for that - it's not their speciality and there is so much they need to know. As a dietitian it wasn't your cholesterol I would be thinking of - if your protein sources are lean then this shouldn't be too much of an issue. Unfortunately the effects of low carb diets aren't things you see until a long time later - things like kidney failure because of the stress that ketones put on them...

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like YOU should stop doing it. I usually leave people (other than my patients of course!) to their own devices on what they choose to do but the original question here was genuinely asking if people thought low carb was a good idea, that's what I started off replying to. I guess I was a little insulted by the flame wars comment (but I'll be the first to admit that I'm very passionate about what I do!).

Barneystinson

I eat plenty of carbs and have lost 27 pounds since August doing so. Right now, I'm doing P90X, eating about 1,800 calories/day, incluing 200+ grams of carbs. I tried severely limiting my carbs for a short time once, and I felt so lousy, I couldn't do it long enough to even find out how it affected my weight loss. I have my ratios set at 50/25/25, and I feel leaner, stronger and more energetic than I have ever felt, and I will be turning 50 this year. I say, "Three cheers for carbs!"

Yeah, it's so relative to the individual. I followed the nutritional plan in P90X, initially lost, then regained it in phase 3. I felt like a slug in phase 3...Well, a slug with nicely defined arms (and a puffy belly). I wanted so badly to trust the nutrition program and let it work but it just wasn't right for me. I cut the carbs after my 90 days and my energy levels skyrocket. There's the "low carb flu" factor which for most, ends in 2-7 days after the onset of the diet (or ketosis). I had recently lowered my carbohydrate to Atkins Induction levels for a few days to bust through some bad sugar cravings and was foggy for about 2 days. My energy has come back and I've gradually begun to increase my carb levels back to an "active" amount (60-80ish grams) for when I start 30 day shred next week. I feel good, lost the sugar jones.

If high carb works for you, stick with it - it's all about finding a lifestyle that works and keeps us healthy :drinker:

Barneystinson

Most doctors couldn't tell you any reliable nutrition facts and you can't really blame them for that - it's not their speciality and there is so much they need to know. As a dietitian it wasn't your cholesterol I would be thinking of - if your protein sources are lean then this shouldn't be too much of an issue. Unfortunately the effects of low carb diets aren't things you see until a long time later - things like kidney failure because of the stress that ketones put on them...

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like YOU should stop doing it. I usually leave people (other than my patients of course!) to their own devices on what they choose to do but the original question here was genuinely asking if people thought low carb was a good idea, that's what I started off replying to. I guess I was a little insulted by the flame wars comment (but I'll be the first to admit that I'm very passionate about what I do!).

Yeah, I'm not going to disagree with you about the long term effects of what I'd define as a ketogenic diet. I produce ketone bodies when my net carbs are around 40 or lower. I'd venture a guess I'm producing them now because I'm staying pretty low in terms of net carbs, but will most definitely up my carbs back to my active level and get out of ketosis. I have a pack of Ketostix and I should probably test to ensure I'm NOT in ketosis once I return to a more rigorous fitness schedule.

I wanted to give a very low carb diet a whirl to see if it would help me bust my sugar cravings and get me back on track after too many treats. It definitely did. But it's certainly not sustainable outside of specific medical concerns and regular advice from a doctor.

kjensen15

I am an accountant and just got through tax season...so I have gone back to my good habits as of 3.5 weeks ago. I know, not too long of a time, but I was hoping for some budge on the scale. During tax season, my days consisted of five hours of sleep, no exercise, and bad food choices. While my calories stayed low during tax season, the content was BAD!
[/quote]


Well stress and lack of sleep ALWAYS wreak havoc on my diet! I'm also an accountant so I completely understand what you're going through. Also, I'm assuming this time means A LOT of sitting for you as well.

July24Lioness

Oh come on guys...... really?

Carbs are not bad!

The reason why you can lose a lot of weight quickly when you get off the carbs is because you go into ketosis. Seriously guys, carbs are not bad, eating too many carbs are bad, but so is eating too much protein, or too many fats. If you want to learn more about a ketogenic diet, then you can google it. You'll understand why your doctor and his wife have suddenly lost a bunch of weight. But this isn't a diet, ketogenic diets are a lifestyle, fine if you're willing to commit, but completely temporary if you aren't.

Carbs from nuts, fruits and veggies = NOT BAD.............

Carbs from GRAINS = BAD.

Yes, it is the truth. We as humans are mostly blinded by conventional wisdom and what the "authorities" have been telling us since the 1950's.............and it has not gotten us healthier. Low fat / high carb mentality has gotten us FAT as a nation and VERY, VERY SICK.

July24Lioness

Check out the Primal Blue Print by Mark Sisson!!!

SHBoss1673

Oh come on guys...... really?

Carbs are not bad!

The reason why you can lose a lot of weight quickly when you get off the carbs is because you go into ketosis. Seriously guys, carbs are not bad, eating too many carbs are bad, but so is eating too much protein, or too many fats. If you want to learn more about a ketogenic diet, then you can google it. You'll understand why your doctor and his wife have suddenly lost a bunch of weight. But this isn't a diet, ketogenic diets are a lifestyle, fine if you're willing to commit, but completely temporary if you aren't.

Carbs from nuts, fruits and veggies = NOT BAD.............

Carbs from GRAINS = BAD.

Yes, it is the truth. We as humans are mostly blinded by conventional wisdom and what the "authorities" have been telling us since the 1950's.............and it has not gotten us healthier. Low fat / high carb mentality has gotten us FAT as a nation and VERY, VERY SICK.

For the record, I don't agree with the statement

Carbs from GRAINS = BAD

I would maybe agree with a modefied version of that. I.E.

Carbs from GRAINS that have been processed and enriched = BAD

but that's about as far as I'd go. And I also don't believe that grains have made america sick. I would say that a very complex equation involving big food, highly processed foods, ever expanding serving sizes, and people's "me me me" and "now now now" attitude has gotten america sick.

The only reason grains are demonized is because they are the easiest bulk food to process, which means they last longer in storage, and are easier to ship, therefore are the most popular food staple. Translate that however you like, but it doesn't mean that grain is evil.

That's equivalent to saying iron is evil because people make guns out of it.

lilmissy2

When people make statements like this, I wonder why the people in Asia for example that practically live on rice are all super skinny...

PJilly

Low fat / high carb mentality has gotten us FAT as a nation and VERY, VERY SICK.

Low fat / high carb has gotten me leaner than I have been in my adult life, and I feel better than ever as well. It's hard for me not to trust that.

DeeDeeLHF

When people make statements like this, I wonder why the people in Asia for example that practically live on rice are all super skinny...

Too true! My husband is Filipino and most of his family who follow a traditional Filipino diet are thin. They eat white rice at every single meal! They also eat A LOT of veggies and fruits and for protein they eat fish or chicken.

I have really enjoyed reading this thread. Right now I am following a ratio of 35% carbs, 35% protein, and 30% fat. I am in my final 10. For me I have to say the biggest thing that keeps me from losing is processed foods. If I am doing really well and eating well, I start losing. It is when I get busy and sneak a crazy snack like pretzels or pizza that I get into trouble. Processed foods are our killers.

I am not sure why you are not losing. Everything that you are doing seems so right!

SHBoss is usually right...I would go with his advice.

Keep us posted on what you did and how it worked!!

July24Lioness

Oh come on guys...... really?

Carbs are not bad!

The reason why you can lose a lot of weight quickly when you get off the carbs is because you go into ketosis. Seriously guys, carbs are not bad, eating too many carbs are bad, but so is eating too much protein, or too many fats. If you want to learn more about a ketogenic diet, then you can google it. You'll understand why your doctor and his wife have suddenly lost a bunch of weight. But this isn't a diet, ketogenic diets are a lifestyle, fine if you're willing to commit, but completely temporary if you aren't.

Carbs from nuts, fruits and veggies = NOT BAD.............

Carbs from GRAINS = BAD.

Yes, it is the truth. We as humans are mostly blinded by conventional wisdom and what the "authorities" have been telling us since the 1950's.............and it has not gotten us healthier. Low fat / high carb mentality has gotten us FAT as a nation and VERY, VERY SICK.

For the record, I don't agree with the statement

Carbs from GRAINS = BAD

I would maybe agree with a modefied version of that. I.E.

Carbs from GRAINS that have been processed and enriched = BAD

but that's about as far as I'd go. And I also don't believe that grains have made america sick. I would say that a very complex equation involving big food, highly processed foods, ever expanding serving sizes, and people's "me me me" and "now now now" attitude has gotten america sick.

The only reason grains are demonized is because they are the easiest bulk food to process, which means they last longer in storage, and are easier to ship, therefore are the most popular food staple. Translate that however you like, but it doesn't mean that grain is evil.

That's equivalent to saying iron is evil because people make guns out of it.

I have done enough research to know that Human beings are NOT made to eat grains. There are no grains that can be eaten without having to be processed, so therefore we are not meant to eat them.

it is just Big Pharma and government telling us we need them and everyone that worships conventional wisdom and thinking has bought into it.

July24Lioness

I am posting an article that I live by now days.....................It makes perfect sense to me and many others.

I know some of you will say that grains and legumes are too hard and do not taste really good, unless we cook and season them. My answer to that is that Nature gave us the sense of taste in order for us to know the good foods from the bad ones. Any food that is not pleasing to the sense of taste is not a good food for us. So an edible that is not tasty in its raw, natural state, is not a natural food for us. Of course we can eat it, after cooking and adding seasonings to it, but that way we are messing up with our own health. By following this rule, of eating everything raw, we will be forced to ingest only natural foods, which comprise all those that taste good in their unadulterated state.

All true heath experts are opposed to grain products. These include bread, pasta, rice, flour, cookies, crackers, etc. It seems very difficult for most people to understand this subject, because unconsciously they refuse to abandon the habit of eating bread and other grain products. Those who call themselves nutritionists and still promotes grains, raw or cooked, are not true health specialists. They don't understand that Nature doesn't produce bread, and that grains are meant to be eaten by birds, who are graminivores, and that humans are frugivores (also eaters of green leaves). There are many reasons why grains are not suited for humans. One of the most valid ones are those taken from the science of biology: the same type of arguments that vegetarian use to condemn meat.

The compared chart of anatomy reveals that humans have none of the characteristics of the carnivore. They do not have appropriate teeth to bite the prey, not an adequate liver to neutralize all the toxins, and so on. Everybody can understand this easily: humans are not carnivores. But what I say is that humans are not graminivores either. We are not biologically designed to eat grains. For every class of animals on the planet, Nature has provided a certain category of foods for them. Any deviation from that will create all sorts of problems: disease, cancer, etc.

A machine that is supposed to function well with a certain type of oil will not function as well with a different type of oil. It will clog up and break down. This is the major argument against grains. All other "scientific" arguments, are only about details.

Nature has provided a special type of foods for the fish, another type of food for the cows, and something entirely different for the bears. And for us, Nature provides us with our natural food: fruits, green leaves, and maybe roots.

Nature is no chaos. Every species eats the food it was designed to eat. If horses would start eating meat, and lions start grazing with the cow, it would be the end of everything!

TheMaidOfAstolat

Teff, millet, quinoa, amaranth, rice/wild rice, corn (fresh not processed) are all grains that do not require any processing.

karissastephens

bump to read later

LittleSpy

I apologize in advance for being so off topic here. I just have to state that I personally am not of the belief that "Nature" has any "intentions." But if I were, maybe I would say that "Nature" has provided us with the intelligence to prepare foods to get nutrients out of them just for argument's sake.

Listen, I understand the more scientific argument that grains aren't the most ideal fuel for humans. It's the same reason I don't feed my dogs or cat grains (dogs & cats seem to have much more trouble with grains than most humans). I also don't intentionally feed them fruits or vegetables because they have no need for them. But generally if I drop a piece of fruit or veggie on the floor and they eat it, that's fine -- I don't freak out about it. Just because they don't have a nutritional NEED for something doesn't *necessarily* mean it's BAD for them. Nothing is really 100% good for us, there are ups and downs to it all. For example, I eat yogurt because getting enough calcium any other way is just too much for me. I'm not aware of any negative side effects from my yogurt eating, but there could be plenty (maybe my argumentative nature is one. :laugh:).

So, although humans have no absolute nutritional NEED for grains or dairy, it does not necessarily follow that these things are not useful as food sources for us as a species.

Edit: Even wild wolves often eat berries despite no actual nutritional need. Scientists believe wolves just like the way the berries taste (because the berries come out looking pretty much the way they went in).

July24Lioness

Teff, millet, quinoa, amaranth, rice/wild rice, corn (fresh not processed) are all grains that do not require any processing.

Umm humans don't even digest corn, so that just supports my point. Have you not noticed how it looks the same when it comes out no matter how much you chew???

July24Lioness

For some reason all of my article did not post..............

Here is the remainder of it.

The gizzard
Bread and grains, even whole grains, are extremely deficient in minerals, compared to fruits and greens. They're lacking in alkaline minerals like calcium. They are indeed some of the most acid-forming foods. Our physiology is not designed to handle the digestion of grains. The ptyalin enzyme in our mouth can only handle a small amount of starch (found in roots). Species that are graminivores (eaters of grains), like some types of bird, have a special stomach called the gizzard. What is a gizzard? It's a sort of second stomach that permits certain types of bird to grind hard seeds in order to digest them. With that type of strong stomach, they can even pulverize little rocks in no time. They swallow rocks to help grinding grain. Even needles, swallowed by some young birds, are broken into pieces, and rejected with no apparent damage.

Have you ever seen chickens and other types of fowl eating rocks, nails, and other hard and indigestible things? At that moment, you probably asked yourself: why are these animals eating these useless and harmful things? Have they gone mad? Or are they simply obeying to their instinct? They are simply looking to introduce in their gizzard hard things, to help grind the hard seeds, that they just ate right before.

Birds and fowl have no teeth. That's why they have to swallow whole seeds. But since they need to digest them, Nature provided them with a most perfect grinding machine, attached to their stomach. Small rocks, when eaten, are used as millstones.

But humans are much different. They do not have a gizzard. They cannot grind hard seeds like grains or legumes. That is why those food are not meant to us.

Now someone will say that we can replace the gizzard with a millstone, constructed by humans, and cook the grains, to soften them and render them easy to chew and digest; and that's about what we've been doing for a couple thousands years. But this does not solve the problem.

The digestive tract of humans, and of all frugivous animals, is too long for an adequate digestion of starches. These foods stay there for too long, an thus have a tendency to ferment. Grains are natural foods for birds and fowl, but not of humans, who are not equipped with a gizzard and other physiological designs, in order to process grain properly.

Furthermore, these foods cannot be eaten and enjoyed in their natural state, they are not foods we are biologically meant to eat. Every food that is a natural food for us must be eaten and enjoyed in its raw, unadulterated state. Our natural foods are fruits and green leaves.

Barneystinson

When people make statements like this, I wonder why the people in Asia for example that practically live on rice are all super skinny...

Honestly when I do eat carbs in the form of grains, rice is a prime choice, second to tubers. Great for re-feeds.

I do have to take some stock in studies suggesting gluten may be inflammatory (not unlike dairy to those who are lactose intolerant). I'd say on the "grain quality" list, gluten grains are pretty low.

getphysicallyfit

My blood type is B+.....

Drop me an email and I'll send you a list of foods you should avoid. This will help out a lot.
I.E. I have this one client who when we first started was making great lean muscle mass gains. I weighed him weekly with my Tanita BF-350 which integrates into my scale so I'm getting hydration levels, lean muscle mass, BMR, BF%. Well one week i weigh him in and he's gained an abnormal amount of body fat (about 3% increase). His wife (who i was training at the time as well) told me he had taken to eating peanut butter as his snack. Well he is an O Blood type and O's don't break down peanut butter. We removed the peanut butter from his dietary intake and he dropped the 3% fast and was back on track.

getphysicallyfit

P.S. For what it's worth, my blood type is O+.

Jill see my post to Jovi.. And your doing great because Mr. Horton is a BEAST at muscle confusion. That is why i love being one of the coaches. My clients nationally are either on or have done P90X and have moved on to Insanity and get the monthly DVD from him.

I figured why reinvent the wheel and I hated doing Webcast workout training for my out of town clients.

Keep doing what your doings. Even though your an O (true carnivore) you doing P90X so your burning up those carbs on the spot or within 24 hours of eating them which is a good time frame for usage before they just get stored as back up fat for later use *smile*.

SHBoss1673

Teff, millet, quinoa, amaranth, rice/wild rice, corn (fresh not processed) are all grains that do not require any processing.

Umm humans don't even digest corn, so that just supports my point. Have you not noticed how it looks the same when it comes out no matter how much you chew???

Humans do digest corn. The corn shell comes out the same, with much of the fiber left in it, but we derive plenty of nutrients from corn kernels. the only way you wouldn't digest corn is if it was dried out and hardened (pop corn kernels).

As to the "humans aren't made to eat grain" argument. I don't believe that at all. I'm not a raw food advocate. If that works for you, more power to ya. But this type of thinking is fringe, extreme, something to take offline if someone is interested in it. You show me the scientific study that proves that grain causes problems for humans, and then maybe I'll start to listen.

Look, some people are sensitive to grains, fine, I have no argument against that. Most people that I know of, are not. For most people, you can continue eating grains for the rest of your life, and never have a problem. To my knowledge (and please correct me if I'm wrong) there has never been any credible clinical documentation that suggests that the human body cannot process carbohydrates from grains the same way it can from other flora. Call me main stream, but I'm not willing to throw the baby out with the bath water. Just because the highly processed crap that most people eat on a daily basis is not good for you, doesn't mean it's root ingredients are not good for you.

July24Lioness

Teff, millet, quinoa, amaranth, rice/wild rice, corn (fresh not processed) are all grains that do not require any processing.

Umm humans don't even digest corn, so that just supports my point. Have you not noticed how it looks the same when it comes out no matter how much you chew???

Humans do digest corn. The corn shell comes out the same, with much of the fiber left in it, but we derive plenty of nutrients from corn kernels. the only way you wouldn't digest corn is if it was dried out and hardened (pop corn kernels).

As to the "humans aren't made to eat grain" argument. I don't believe that at all. I'm not a raw food advocate. If that works for you, more power to ya. But this type of thinking is fringe, extreme, something to take offline if someone is interested in it. You show me the scientific study that proves that grain causes problems for humans, and then maybe I'll start to listen.

Look, some people are sensitive to grains, fine, I have no argument against that. Most people that I know of, are not. For most people, you can continue eating grains for the rest of your life, and never have a problem. To my knowledge (and please correct me if I'm wrong) there has never been any credible clinical documentation that suggests that the human body cannot process carbohydrates from grains the same way it can from other flora. Call me main stream, but I'm not willing to throw the baby out with the bath water. Just because the highly processed crap that most people eat on a daily basis is not good for you, doesn't mean it's root ingredients are not good for you.

Order a copy of the Primal Blue Print and read it cover to cover. it is not on the fringe of being extreme or anything...........In fact, giving up grains is becoming more mainstream practice with doctors I am starting to hear and see from other people.

SHBoss1673

Order a copy of the Primal Blue Print and read it cover to cover. it is not on the fringe of being extreme or anything...........In fact, giving up grains is becoming more mainstream practice with doctors I am starting to hear and see from other people.

no thank you. I've read all I want to read about the primal blueprint. More power to you. Look, there are some good parts to it, but it stumbles in a few places as well. The biggest is grain in my opinion. But I also don't buy the concept of living like our ancestors. Those guys only lived 25 to 40 years, I'm pretty sure I want to live into my 80's or 90's thank you.

July24Lioness

Order a copy of the Primal Blue Print and read it cover to cover. it is not on the fringe of being extreme or anything...........In fact, giving up grains is becoming more mainstream practice with doctors I am starting to hear and see from other people.

no thank you. I've read all I want to read about the primal diet. More power to you. But it's not main stream.

With the push to eat more natural and clean, it is more mainstream than anyone would admit.

No one wants to say that I am doing a controlled carb way of eating or anything like that.............however, if you are eating very clean and eating mostly plants and animals, then you are eating a controlled carb plan.

Call it what you want...............

SHBoss1673

Order a copy of the Primal Blue Print and read it cover to cover. it is not on the fringe of being extreme or anything...........In fact, giving up grains is becoming more mainstream practice with doctors I am starting to hear and see from other people.

no thank you. I've read all I want to read about the primal diet. More power to you. But it's not main stream.

With the push to eat more natural and clean, it is more mainstream than anyone would admit.

No one wants to say that I am doing a controlled carb way of eating or anything like that.............however, if you are eating very clean and eating mostly plants and animals, then you are eating a controlled carb plan.

Call it what you want...............

I edited my comment, as I changed something in it.

Ripgirl

Order a copy of the Primal Blue Print and read it cover to cover. it is not on the fringe of being extreme or anything...........In fact, giving up grains is becoming more mainstream practice with doctors I am starting to hear and see from other people.

no thank you. I've read all I want to read about the primal diet. More power to you. But it's not main stream.

With the push to eat more natural and clean, it is more mainstream than anyone would admit.

No one wants to say that I am doing a controlled carb way of eating or anything like that.............however, if you are eating very clean and eating mostly plants and animals, then you are eating a controlled carb plan.

Call it what you want...............

How's the weight loss going eating this way?

July24Lioness

Order a copy of the Primal Blue Print and read it cover to cover. it is not on the fringe of being extreme or anything...........In fact, giving up grains is becoming more mainstream practice with doctors I am starting to hear and see from other people.

no thank you. I've read all I want to read about the primal diet. More power to you. But it's not main stream.

With the push to eat more natural and clean, it is more mainstream than anyone would admit.

No one wants to say that I am doing a controlled carb way of eating or anything like that.............however, if you are eating very clean and eating mostly plants and animals, then you are eating a controlled carb plan.

Call it what you want...............

How's the weight loss going eating this way?

Well it is the only way I can lose weight at all. I have better results with weight loss and how I feel with the Primal Blue Print than I did with Atkins and Primal Blue Print is a LOT stricter than Atkins is. With Atkins you will eventually add back in beans/legumes/grains (in the form of whole grains, brown rice, etc)...........

With the Primal Blue Print you for go them forever or at least 80% of the time.

lessertess

Order a copy of the Primal Blue Print and read it cover to cover. it is not on the fringe of being extreme or anything...........In fact, giving up grains is becoming more mainstream practice with doctors I am starting to hear and see from other people.

no thank you. I've read all I want to read about the primal diet. More power to you. But it's not main stream.

With the push to eat more natural and clean, it is more mainstream than anyone would admit.

No one wants to say that I am doing a controlled carb way of eating or anything like that.............however, if you are eating very clean and eating mostly plants and animals, then you are eating a controlled carb plan.

Call it what you want...............

How's the weight loss going eating this way?

Well it is the only way I can lose weight at all. I have better results with weight loss and how I feel with the Primal Blue Print than I did with Atkins and Primal Blue Print is a LOT stricter than Atkins is. With Atkins you will eventually add back in beans/legumes/grains (in the form of whole grains, brown rice, etc)...........

With the Primal Blue Print you for go them forever or at least 80% of the time.

I'm glad this is working for you and that you've found something that does work. However, I've read your profile you have diabetes, hypo-thyroid, pcos, arthritis and bi-polar. I think that you have to consider that your needs are vastly different from the majority and what's working for you will probably not work, or is not necessary, for those of us that don't have these conditions.

I agree with earlier posts: I don't want to live like my ancestors: no air conditioning, no sanitiation, no cars, live in cave and hunt and gather everything that you eat. Go through periods of famine and follow that by periods of plenty so that your body learns to store fat for survival.......no wonder they only lived 25-40 years. I don't see why their eating habits should be considered superior or more "natural" than what we've evolved to.

I don't agree that grains are the cause of obesity. The problem is entirely too complex.

I wish you the best of luck and sincerely hope that you're successful in your goals.

PJilly

P.S. For what it's worth, my blood type is O+.

Jill see my post to Jovi.. And your doing great because Mr. Horton is a BEAST at muscle confusion. That is why i love being one of the coaches. My clients nationally are either on or have done P90X and have moved on to Insanity and get the monthly DVD from him.

I figured why reinvent the wheel and I hated doing Webcast workout training for my out of town clients.

Keep doing what your doings. Even though your an O (true carnivore) you doing P90X so your burning up those carbs on the spot or within 24 hours of eating them which is a good time frame for usage before they just get stored as back up fat for later use *smile*.

I think Debbie Siebers would take great exception to your crediting Tony with my weight loss! :happy: I'd been doing Slim in 6 and Slim Series from August until a week ago when I started a new round of P90X. I'd done P90X before (one full round and one partial) as well as a round of Slim in 6, and I had good results fitness-wise with both, but my eating was pretty sloppy, so my weight-loss results were less than stellar. I agree with you that I should keep doing what I'm doing. I can't complain about the results! :happy: