Fat employees taxed extra for health care

cynthiaj777

disagree. The government has too much control in my life already. Legislating morality is such a slippery slope. Government needs to be reduced, much more so than my waistline. My obesity is my business. I'll die sooner, so I am the one experiencing the consequences of my choices.

If the government is so intent on reducing costs, we could start by arresting and then removing all the criminals who are walking our streets and using government-paid resources illegally. The pressure put on our government funded resources by illegal immigration makes health care costs for obesity pale in comparison.

One, it is actually proven that people who are obese live longer. So that is using much more resources to keep obese people alive (not sure why but medications might have something to do with it bc they are on so many). It is not just about the lbs. There are so many medical conditions that goes with obesity that can prevented, if not taken away completely, with a healthy diet and exercise alone.

Two, criminals walking our streets doesn't cost us nearly as much as incarcerated criminals. Our taxes pay for their food, clothes, INTERNET, rehabilitation programs etc.

You are very correct. The prison system is a multi-million dollar enterprise. There are people who make loads off of the contracted labor and some privately owned prisons BUT there is also TONSSSSSSSSSSS and MILLIONS thrown into the prison system from the government and OUR TAXES to feed, cloth and keep alive dengenerates of society. If the government REALLY wants to cut spending, start euthanizing the stupid pricks that do horrible things to people! Now, there's an idea!

cynthiaj777

I think what CasperO was pointing out, LuckyLeprechaun, is that the subject at hand is not political in nature. Whether or not a health insurance company offers discounts to certain people they deem as less of a risk (in the business sense of the word) has nothing to do with taxes or socialism or politics at all.

I understand what you mean. However, I do think it has a lot to do with taxes and socialism. The concept of taxing those who cost us extra so that all the other members can be taken care of is very socialist in it's origins. The OP wasn't talking about discounts for those who are healthy, the proposal was to impose higher premiums on the obese. I'd be in favor all the way of discounts that encourage healthy behavior. I am against monetary penalties for the opposite.

What? Doesn't it make sense to increase the cost to those who cost more money? That's seems like elementary school logic, dear Watson.


An obese person that has diabetes and swollen ankles due to their poor eating habits should pay the same as a person of the same "type" (height, gender, age)? That's absurd! Of course, the fat person should pay more! If I get into 5 car wrecks because I drive like a bat outta h3ll, my insurance will go up. What's the difference? It is all personal choice, in the end.

cynthiaj777

Taxing fat pepole or smokers is un-American. We have the right to choose what we do with our bodies in this country and its not the states or the federal government's business what we do to ourselves in the privacy of our own homes. I am against a moral tax on anything.

I have to comment on this because it is ridiculous.

So, taxing high risk people is Un-American? What about when that person gets sick or goes to the hospital and probably 9 out of 10 times doesn't have health insurance WE, ME, YOU...taxpayers are paying for it! SCREW THAT....pay more if you want to be fat! Scarifice the movies and the REALLY nice car for cable tv and a moderate car and buy healthy!

You should get taxed extra if you want a double cheeseburger than a salad. The high cost of HEALTHY food in this country is ridiculous. Ask a family of four that lives off of $30,000 a year why they are constantly eating horrible food. BECAUSE IT IS CHEAPER THAN BUYING HEALTHY FOOD, which makes NO sense!

It makes perfect sence why this unhealthy crap is so cheap. If you'd read the rest of my post I go on to say that the government is subsidizing the ingredients to unhealthy processed foods like fast foods which drives the cost down and makes it an cheap alternative to healthy food. I dont think the skinny guy who wants to have a Big Mac every now and then should be unfairly taxed. Its not the government's job to shake it's finger at is when we indulge in foods (or other things) that are bad for us. Its our right to. But it IS the government's job to regulate the food industry and to stop allowing them to lobby and monopolize the market with chemically altered foods just so they can make a higher paycheck at the end of the week.

I'm not saying it doesn't make sense....like I don't know HOW the food cost less. Yes, of course, it makes sense if the government is subsidizing it.

That's not my point. My point IS that healthy food should NOT cost more PERIOD. No matter the reasons. It does not make sense to subsidize a fat country.

Barneystinson

Taxing fat pepole or smokers is un-American. We have the right to choose what we do with our bodies in this country and its not the states or the federal government's business what we do to ourselves in the privacy of our own homes. I am against a moral tax on anything.

I have to comment on this because it is ridiculous.

So, taxing high risk people is Un-American? What about when that person gets sick or goes to the hospital and probably 9 out of 10 times doesn't have health insurance WE, ME, YOU...taxpayers are paying for it! SCREW THAT....pay more if you want to be fat! Scarifice the movies and the REALLY nice car for cable tv and a moderate car and buy healthy!

You should get taxed extra if you want a double cheeseburger than a salad. The high cost of HEALTHY food in this country is ridiculous. Ask a family of four that lives off of $30,000 a year why they are constantly eating horrible food. BECAUSE IT IS CHEAPER THAN BUYING HEALTHY FOOD, which makes NO sense!

Well, it’s not that simple with the actual COST of morbid obesity, nor is it that simple with the effect of eating “poor” food choices. If it was, all health problems would directly correlate to obesity. Diabetes, cancer, heart disease, and other costly “lifestyle” ailments do not ONLY strike the obese, some ailments are simply more common in the obese. A direct medical cost of obesity would be, for example, gastric bypass surgery. As with insurance, risk factors are calculated by a multitude of factors by actuaries. I think it would honestly be fascinating to see how risk is calculated in those with multiple obesity factors – body fat %, weight, BMI, other lifestyle risks (diabetes, etc.) Remember this is not a tax – this is a rate increase applied by an insurance company.

Smoking, nor obesity are givens to reduce one’s life. And even if they did, it could essentially REDUCE premiums for that individual. Shorter lifespan = less potential for long-term care (i.e. nursing home, long-term prescriptions). I don’t mean to be grim, but those who want to live to ‘a ripe old age of 95’ maybe don’t have a full understanding of what that may mean in terms of care and expense required. As a healthy adult, you may have less expense for risk-related illness or treatment earlier in life, but you may have a much higher expense over a longer term late in life.

MariSama44

Taxing fat pepole or smokers is un-American. We have the right to choose what we do with our bodies in this country and its not the states or the federal government's business what we do to ourselves in the privacy of our own homes. I am against a moral tax on anything.

I have to comment on this because it is ridiculous.

So, taxing high risk people is Un-American? What about when that person gets sick or goes to the hospital and probably 9 out of 10 times doesn't have health insurance WE, ME, YOU...taxpayers are paying for it! SCREW THAT....pay more if you want to be fat! Scarifice the movies and the REALLY nice car for cable tv and a moderate car and buy healthy!

You should get taxed extra if you want a double cheeseburger than a salad. The high cost of HEALTHY food in this country is ridiculous. Ask a family of four that lives off of $30,000 a year why they are constantly eating horrible food. BECAUSE IT IS CHEAPER THAN BUYING HEALTHY FOOD, which makes NO sense!

It makes perfect sence why this unhealthy crap is so cheap. If you'd read the rest of my post I go on to say that the government is subsidizing the ingredients to unhealthy processed foods like fast foods which drives the cost down and makes it an cheap alternative to healthy food. I dont think the skinny guy who wants to have a Big Mac every now and then should be unfairly taxed. Its not the government's job to shake it's finger at is when we indulge in foods (or other things) that are bad for us. Its our right to. But it IS the government's job to regulate the food industry and to stop allowing them to lobby and monopolize the market with chemically altered foods just so they can make a higher paycheck at the end of the week.

I'm not saying it doesn't make sense....like I don't know HOW the food cost more. Yes, of course, it makes sense if the government is subsidizing it.

That's not my point. My point IS that healthy food should NOT cost more PERIOD. No matter the reasons. It does not make sense to subsidize a fat country.

Then we agree. I think you missread my posts.

LittleSpy

I don't agree. If you are obese, a smoker, etc, your medical insurance will go up anyway. This extra tax is not the right way to motivate people to be healthier. Give them a deduction if they lose weight, quit smoking etc.

First of all I agree with the OP...they should be taxed.

But as to this...should people who have never smoked, don't drink, are not overweight not receive deductions? Or should their insurance be lowered?

I agree. What about the healthy people? Should everyone CLAIM they did all these unhealthy things and get fat just to lose weight and say they quick smoking to get a credit? That's almost absurd.

If you never did those things, you do get the discount (or do not pay the penalty, however your insurance company words it).

CasperO

Healthy food costs what is costs because of economies of scale and supply and demand. When there is enormous demand for a product, several providers will get into the business to try to make some of that money. SO they'll have a knife fight out in the parking lot to get that business. Then they set up gi-normous plants to produce it, and they buy big machines and just generally make production cheap cheap cheap to try to beat their competitors and get the business. This is how Model T fords got down to $515, and how McD's put's an 800 calorie greaseburger on the menu for $1.

I love hummus,,, but not a lot of folks do. SO there's not a lot of demand for hummus,,, so there is no enormous plants with a processing line preparing & packaging hummus at a rate of 10,000 lbs an hour. It's almost hand made. And then you have to deliver it. Hummus companies don't have dozens of forklifts load their fleets of trucks to distribute their tons of products efficiently. It's more likely one guy with a pickup.

That's just one of many reasons why healthy food costs more. It's straight up capitalist business at it's finest. Unregulated and free,,, sell sell-ching ching,,,

kjensen15

I don't agree. If you are obese, a smoker, etc, your medical insurance will go up anyway. This extra tax is not the right way to motivate people to be healthier. Give them a deduction if they lose weight, quit smoking etc.

So you want to give people a deduction once they quit smoking or lose weight... What about all those people that have never smoked or aren't over weight, what do they get?

CasperO

Asked and answered already

If you never did those things, you do get the discount (or do not pay the penalty, however your insurance company words it).

LuckyLeprechaun

I don't agree. If you are obese, a smoker, etc, your medical insurance will go up anyway. This extra tax is not the right way to motivate people to be healthier. Give them a deduction if they lose weight, quit smoking etc.

So you want to give people a deduction once they quit smoking or lose weight... What about all those people that have never smoked or aren't over weight, what do they get?

a long healthy life?

why are they owed anything?

entitlement abounds.....................

kjensen15

I don't agree. If you are obese, a smoker, etc, your medical insurance will go up anyway. This extra tax is not the right way to motivate people to be healthier. Give them a deduction if they lose weight, quit smoking etc.

So you want to give people a deduction once they quit smoking or lose weight... What about all those people that have never smoked or aren't over weight, what do they get?

a long healthy life?

why are they owed anything?

entitlement abounds.....................

WHOA NO entitlement complex here! I don't feel that I am owed anything for being healthy. But I also don't agree with giving people tax deductions for losing weight or quitting smoking.

lessertess

The insurance business is applied, for-profit professional socialism. Everybody pays into the "Heart attack" fund,,, most people don't have heart attacks, so they got screwed on the deal, a few folks do have heart attacks, and they get taken care of,,, and everybody gets to sleep at night knowing they're covered. It's what insurance is,,, it's how it works. The company just brokers the deals and handles the money and skims a little for costs/salaries/profits etc.

That's not an indictment of the system, it's not a value judgment, it's just the truth, it's what it is.

So - if you can reasonably predict that some people will have higher costs, you can reasonably charge them higher premiums,,, it's how the system works, whether you're insuring cars or fireworks factories or people.

Yes, since this is a premium discussion and not a tax discussion....I agree. The insurance companies base rates on actuarial tables. It's perfectly reasonable to charge more for premiums to people who represent a higher risk. In fact, based on the declining health and increasing medical costs how can they do anything else. As it is, medical premiums go up double digit percentages every year. If I can get a lower rate by being healthier, then I'm all for it. If someone has to pay a higher rate because they represent a higher risk, it makes sense to me. In fact, if I have to pay a higher rate because I represent a risk---well, I can't argue that it's unfair. And, it doesn't really matter if the risk is due to a controllable or non-controllable issue. If you are more likely to need higher payouts--you pay higher premiums.

LittleSpy

I don't agree. If you are obese, a smoker, etc, your medical insurance will go up anyway. This extra tax is not the right way to motivate people to be healthier. Give them a deduction if they lose weight, quit smoking etc.

So you want to give people a deduction once they quit smoking or lose weight... What about all those people that have never smoked or aren't over weight, what do they get?

a long healthy life?

why are they owed anything?

entitlement abounds.....................

WHOA NO entitlement complex here! I don't feel that I am owed anything for being healthy. But I also don't agree with giving people tax deductions for losing weight or quitting smoking.

WHAT?! NO ONE is talking about giving anyone TAX DEDUCTIONS here. *sigh*

I quit.

rolandhulme

Don't you have a tea party to get to? ;-)

I never understood this argument. When it's the government demanding we live healthily for the greater good, and taxing us if we don't, it's evil. When it's health insurance companies do exactly the same damn thing, raking in more billions by raising premiums on obese people and smokers, it's the free market system at work and God bless it.

It's pure hypocrisy.

The US is the only first world country that doesn't have universal healthcare, so leave government out of it and address the issue: Is it right to make obese people pay more (regardless of whether it's a government or a corporation cashing their check, because to the consumer it;s the same damn thing.)

leavinglasvegas

Don't you have a tea party to get to? ;-)

I never understood this argument. When it's the government demanding we live healthily for the greater good, and taxing us if we don't, it's evil. When it's health insurance companies do exactly the same damn thing, raking in more billions by raising premiums on obese people and smokers, it's the free market system at work and God bless it.

It's pure hypocrisy.

The US is the only first world country that doesn't have universal healthcare, so leave government out of it and address the issue: Is it right to make obese people pay more (regardless of whether it's a government or a corporation cashing their check, because to the consumer it;s the same damn thing.)

Wow! Well said!

sofaking6

You should get taxed extra if you want a double cheeseburger than a salad. The high cost of HEALTHY food in this country is ridiculous. Ask a family of four that lives off of $30,000 a year why they are constantly eating horrible food. BECAUSE IT IS CHEAPER THAN BUYING HEALTHY FOOD, which makes NO sense!

I have a problem with this though..because making the unhealthy food more expensive is not going to make healthy food cheaper...when your only options are to eat bad food or be hungry, bad food is obviously the better choice. I feel like taxing fast food is punishing poor people because it doesn't address the problem of healthy food being expensive and/or unavailable in poor neighborhoods.

LuckyLeprechaun

Don't you have a tea party to get to? ;-)

I never understood this argument. When it's the government demanding we live healthily for the greater good, and taxing us if we don't, it's evil. When it's health insurance companies do exactly the same damn thing, raking in more billions by raising premiums on obese people and smokers, it's the free market system at work and God bless it.

It's pure hypocrisy.

here we have an example of an ad hominem argument. Because you disagree with me, you attack me rather than defend your viewpoint.

If you took a look at my posts I went out of my way to point out that I don't like it regardless of who is doing it. So your point about hypocrisy is null.

Mike

Political discussions are not allowed in the forums. This topic seems to have taken on a political tone so I am locking it.

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