Eating more to weigh less????

cwolfman13

I saw a video of this on YouTube n it made some sense to . The idea was to eat more calories than ur bmi but less then ur energy expenditure so ur body doesn't store as much fat thinking it's starving . I do cardio n strength training so tht would put me at 1400. It sounds logical to me. Has anyone else heard of this, or did this before. The reasoning to this idea is still fuzzy to me

Yes...the whole idea behind it is that you don't have to crash diet to lose weight like so many seem to think you do. There are two numbers you need to know...

BMR - Basal Metabolic Rate...this is the number of calories your body burns in a day just to operate your system...this is the calories you would burn if you were to sleep all day long or if you were in a coma...yes...you burn calories doing absolutely nothing.

TDEE - Total Daily Energy Expenditure...This is the number of calories you burn in a given day total..it is your BMR + all activity.

If you eat at a calorie level below TDEE you lose weight. But here's the deal...everyone likes to sign onto MFP and select the most aggressive weight loss approach possible...2 Lbs per week...they get a calorie goal of 1,200 net calories (the MFP method uses your NEAT not your TDEE so exercise is extra and you're supposed to eat those calorie back and net to your goal of 1,200...but your gross will be higher). All fine and dandy, except, 1,200 calories net is below most people's BMR. You're not in a coma...so why would you want to eat a calorie level that is less than what your body would need in a coma just for proper organ function?

Eating below your BMR doesn't put you into "starvation" mode...that is overused and completely misunderstood...but, what it does do, particularly if you don't have a lot to lose...it stalls your metabolism. You're not getting enough calories for basic functions, so your body basically shuts down anything non-essential, thus slowing your metabolism down. This is why many who do the 1,200 calorie thing lose weight at first, but quickly come to a screeching halt and plateau. Obese individuals can eat below their BMR for longer with minimal problems due to the fact that they have so much fat stored up for energy...individuals who don't have much to lose...less than 50 Lbs...will stall out pretty quickly.

Mtleiker

thanks everone!:flowerforyou: ! im super excited!! :happy: i just started strength training and i love it ...even more than cardio but i know i have to keep my cardio to. i hope this works more calories but still im gnna try my best to eat healthy

cwolfman13

I'm a firm believer in the Eat Less, Move More way to lose weight, but whatever works for you...is a good thing.

You still eat less and move more...you still eat at a calorie deficit, just not as large of one. Why is this so hard for people to understand...it is very simple and basic mathematics.

Mtleiker

Glance around here. That phrase is used often. There's a group here by that name that you could search for and join. There's also a number of people who make wonderfully helpful threads about TDEE and BMR and explain how much to eat.

Here's one such thread:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/912920-in-place-of-a-road-map-3-2013

loved it!!!! im figuring it out now

heatherforever222

I think it depends on the person. I dont have that much to go but I am losing about a pound of week just by going on the 1200 cal schedule. Before I chose 1200 max, I calculated my height and weight and age and thats what it came up with. However, when I work out, I use a hrm so I know how many calories I can eat back to keep losing. I believe the concept of calories in and calories out will determine if you lose weight.

kmcosgrove115

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/931670-bmr-and-tdee-explained-for-those-needing-a-guide

Explains it in very plain english and the explanation I wrote seems to really help many understand it.................hope this helps!

magerum

Glance around here. That phrase is used often. There's a group here by that name that you could search for and join. There's also a number of people who make wonderfully helpful threads about TDEE and BMR and explain how much to eat.

Here's one such thread:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/912920-in-place-of-a-road-map-3-2013

There is a new version, i rewrote the new one.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/937712-in-place-of-a-road-map-ver-3-0

i also wrote a summary of it, made it shorter here..
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/943139-weight-loss-cheat-sheet-ipoarm

OP: yes, but you have to figure out HOW MANY calories to cut. It depends on how fat you are. The entire ting you said is not true. about starvation mode and storing fat. It doesn't work that way. It's true that if you don't eat enough you will stall out. Read this and apply it. It tells you how much to eat, how to do everything correctly.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/943139-weight-loss-cheat-sheet-ipoarm

That's a very bold claim.

magerum

Glance around here. That phrase is used often. There's a group here by that name that you could search for and join. There's also a number of people who make wonderfully helpful threads about TDEE and BMR and explain how much to eat.

Here's one such thread:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/912920-in-place-of-a-road-map-3-2013

There is a new version, i rewrote the new one.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/937712-in-place-of-a-road-map-ver-3-0

i also wrote a summary of it, made it shorter here..
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/943139-weight-loss-cheat-sheet-ipoarm

OP: yes, but you have to figure out HOW MANY calories to cut. It depends on how fat you are. The entire ting you said is not true. about starvation mode and storing fat. It doesn't work that way. It's true that if you don't eat enough you will stall out. Read this and apply it. It tells you how much to eat, how to do everything correctly.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/943139-weight-loss-cheat-sheet-ipoarm

That's a very bold claim.

yes and it's a true claim.

You have the credentials to back this up? Peer reviewed studies as well as advanced degrees in nutritional and physiology? Your weight loss isn't credential enough, a nice achievement to be proud of, but not credentials.

IPOARM is fine, but to claim it tells you how to do everything right is ridiculous. By that statement everything else or any other way is wrong. I did not follow anything on there & have had some pretty good results.

Sarauk2sf

You have the credentials to back this up? Peer reviewed studies as well as advanced degrees in nutritional and physiology? Your weight loss isn't credential enough, a nice achievement to be proud of, but not credentials.

IPOARM is fine, but to claim it tells you how to do everything right is ridiculous. By that statement everything else or any other way is wrong. I did not follow anything on there & have had some pretty good results.

I have never seen your before pics and even though I see your ticker it's always more impactfull to see pics - awesome progress!

magerum

You have the credentials to back this up? Peer reviewed studies as well as advanced degrees in nutritional and physiology? Your weight loss isn't credential enough, a nice achievement to be proud of, but not credentials.

IPOARM is fine, but to claim it tells you how to do everything right is ridiculous. By that statement everything else or any other way is wrong. I did not follow anything on there & have had some pretty good results.

I have never seen your before pics and even though I see your ticker it's always more impactfull to see pics - awesome progress!

Thanks Sara :blushing:

magerum

Glance around here. That phrase is used often. There's a group here by that name that you could search for and join. There's also a number of people who make wonderfully helpful threads about TDEE and BMR and explain how much to eat.

Here's one such thread:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/912920-in-place-of-a-road-map-3-2013

There is a new version, i rewrote the new one.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/937712-in-place-of-a-road-map-ver-3-0

i also wrote a summary of it, made it shorter here..
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/943139-weight-loss-cheat-sheet-ipoarm

OP: yes, but you have to figure out HOW MANY calories to cut. It depends on how fat you are. The entire ting you said is not true. about starvation mode and storing fat. It doesn't work that way. It's true that if you don't eat enough you will stall out. Read this and apply it. It tells you how much to eat, how to do everything correctly.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/943139-weight-loss-cheat-sheet-ipoarm

That's a very bold claim.

yes and it's a true claim.

You have the credentials to back this up? Peer reviewed studies as well as advanced degrees in nutritional and physiology? Your weight loss isn't credential enough, a nice achievement to be proud of, but not credentials.

IPOARM is fine, but to claim it tells you how to do everything right is ridiculous. By that statement everything else or any other way is wrong. I did not follow anything on there & have had some pretty good results.

That's funny, i have been meaning to email you asking you if you where in my 100lbs weight loss group a while back. I seen your before pics before, but i wasn't sure if those before pics belonged to you or someone else.

I mean Dr.Oz has a PhD. should we all listen to him because of his "credentials?" I also have a book by a PhD in nutrition that says to eat 6x a day because it speeds up your metabolism.

You lost weight by following a calorie deficit, period. There is a wrong way to do it (starving) and a right way not starving and maximizing fat loss).

My credentials are:
NASM CPT
and i am currently majoring in biohemistry. I do want to get a PhD, but not sure in what yet. Nutrition, biochemistry, or i might change the route and go Health Science, still undecided.

Also, you can read all the book in the world have a PhD in one of the greatest health fields, if you're obese and over weight and can't help yourself, what's the point? My weight loss is also a form of credentials.

ETA: you also probably followed most of IPOARM with out knowing it.

I hope your pursuit of higher education goes well. One can never be educated enough. I am glad you are perusing credentials based on the tone of your message. You're going to need them to back it up.

You're missing the point entirely. You're doing nothing different than Dr.Oz or the other PhD you referenced. You're stating your way (which is just a compilation of other people’s methods really) is the only right way. You preach, for that is what it is, that it's the way to do everything right. That is no different than Oz or whomever.

In fact I did not do it in any way like IPOARM. I did it wrong, according to you. I lost 140 lbs. in 7 months following a carefully researched and developed 1200 - 1400 calorie diet & cardio only. I put a lot of effort into developing the diet as well as got full labs every 4 weeks to make sure I wasn't creating deficiencies. I then lost another 20 lbs. over the next 5 months while slowly increasing calories. Did I lose strength? Sure, but that wasn't my concern. As an example my bench went from 315 lbs. prior to weight loss to 170 lbs. afterwards.

I have spent the last 12 months on a "recomp" plan, which was developed through various sources of information obtained online, mostly through Google, just like IPOARM. I have gained about 15 lbs. in the last 12 months, but an inch or less in the waist. During this time I have also reclaimed my strength. To continue the same example: my bench is now 225 x 10 reliably. I don’t know what my 1 RM is, but it should be about the same as before.

The moral of this story is: there isn't only one "correct" way of doing it. To state so is absolutely ridiculous. Priorities have a way of dictating what is "correct" from person to person. As someone recently mentioned to me: “5+5=10” & “9+1=10”. The tone of your posts come across as you’re saying ONLY “5+5=10” is the right way and no other way is right. If I’m wrong, then I will withdraw my objections.

As far as insinuating that my before pictures aren’t me… I’m just going to ignore that (mostly). You seem to want to make it personal. I will not however, because I’m not trying to promote my method as the only correct way to do things. It may not even be a correct way at all for anyone other than me.

(If you really want to though we can compare results of methods.)

EDITED: Changed my mind on a comment TBH.

magerum

I do agree with you there are many ways to lose weight. I do agree with you that IPOARM wouldn't fit every possible scenario for the proper weight loss for each person.

You know what, we're good then - I misunderstood.

I believe it's right for most people, in most situations. Do you not think you would have gotten better results if you followed something like IPOARM ver 3?(assuming you read it)

I read it, I can't say either way TBH.

I have been pretty sick with digestive issues, so my LBM went to crap. So no physique comparisons ha.

This is the comment I removed, it was rather childish. You beat me to the quoting though.

EvgeniZyntx

Congrats magerum - yours shots demonstrate some fantastic results and while your method of loss is not what I would recommend - well, it worked. good job. Teaches us all a little flexibility of mind.

For me IPOARM isn't for me either - well, certainly parts of it. I'm still sticking to the MFP adjusted method because one of the tenants of IPOARM is the fixed calories per day. This does not work for me as my weekly activity burns can vary by 5000-8000 calories from total sedentary week to long multi-day ride weeks. Fixed TDEE just kills my performance. In fact, once running comes back, I'll be more concerned about calorie matching, muscle retention and carb/glycogen loading - things that IPOARM doesn't really deal with. Don't get me wrong, it's a great program and rewriting heybales spreadsheet for myself was very educational. I'm very greatful to the feedback I got from him in my research.

As you are reviewing IPOARM I would suggest taking a look at variability, deviation and measurement error. The fact that there are people that do not succeed with EMTWL or IPOARM or MFP calcs is not only "your (sic) doing it wrong" but physio differences, etc.... The special snowflakes ARE right some of the time.

etoiles_argentees

One size does not fit all.

jofjltncb6

I'm a firm believer in the Eat Less, Move More way to lose weight, but whatever works for you...is a good thing.

You still eat less and move more...you still eat at a calorie deficit, just not as large of one. Why is this so hard for people to understand...it is very simple and basic mathematics.

^this...and in for the inevitable entertaining discussion.

(ETA: Whoops. When I posted this, I didn't realize page 2 of this was already full of entertainment.)

GiddyupTim

Glance around here. That phrase is used often. There's a group here by that name that you could search for and join. There's also a number of people who make wonderfully helpful threads about TDEE and BMR and explain how much to eat.

Here's one such thread:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/912920-in-place-of-a-road-map-3-2013

There is a new version, i rewrote the new one.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/937712-in-place-of-a-road-map-ver-3-0

i also wrote a summary of it, made it shorter here..
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/943139-weight-loss-cheat-sheet-ipoarm

OP: yes, but you have to figure out HOW MANY calories to cut. It depends on how fat you are. The entire ting you said is not true. about starvation mode and storing fat. It doesn't work that way. It's true that if you don't eat enough you will stall out. Read this and apply it. It tells you how much to eat, how to do everything correctly.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/943139-weight-loss-cheat-sheet-ipoarm

That's a very bold claim.

yes and it's a true claim.

You have the credentials to back this up? Peer reviewed studies as well as advanced degrees in nutritional and physiology? Your weight loss isn't credential enough, a nice achievement to be proud of, but not credentials.

IPOARM is fine, but to claim it tells you how to do everything right is ridiculous. By that statement everything else or any other way is wrong. I did not follow anything on there & have had some pretty good results.

Heck, with results like that, I would listen to anything you had to say . . .

cmcollins001

I'm a firm believer in the Eat Less, Move More way to lose weight, but whatever works for you...is a good thing.

You still eat less and move more...you still eat at a calorie deficit, just not as large of one. Why is this so hard for people to understand...it is very simple and basic mathematics.

^this...and in for the inevitable entertaining discussion.

(ETA: Whoops. When I posted this, I didn't realize page 2 of this was already full of entertainment.)

Yeah, I was going to say this is already getting entertaining and interesting.

EvgeniZyntx

Congrats magerum - yours shots demonstrate some fantastic results and while your method of loss is not what I would recommend - well, it worked. good job. Teaches us all a little flexibility of mind.

For me IPOARM isn't for me either - well, certainly parts of it. I'm still sticking to the MFP adjusted method because one of the tenants of IPOARM is the fixed calories per day. This does not work for me as my weekly activity burns can vary by 5000-8000 calories from total sedentary week to long multi-day ride weeks. Fixed TDEE just kills my performance. In fact, once running comes back, I'll be more concerned about calorie matching, muscle retention and carb/glycogen loading - things that IPOARM doesn't really deal with. Don't get me wrong, it's a great program and rewriting heybales spreadsheet for myself was very educational. I'm very greatful to the feedback I got from him in my research.

As you are reviewing IPOARM I would suggest taking a look at variability, deviation and measurement error. The fact that there are people that do not succeed with EMTWL or IPOARM or MFP calcs is not only "your (sic) doing it wrong" but physio differences, etc.... The special snowflakes ARE right some of the time.

have you read the new one, ver 3? The links are above. I change the deficit based on body fat%, and protein intake based on activity level.

You don't like the daily TDEE thing, there is a spreadsheet i made in it called "piggybank" You enter your non maintenance exercise calories(so you will eat back your calories), and set your weight loss goal. It will calculate how many calories for you to eat. Lets call your weight loss calories x.

Calories Consumed: This is where you enter how many calories you ate today.
Workout Calories: This is where you enter how many calories you burned
Free Calories: This is how many calories you earned by exercising or under eating the day before.
Calories To Consume Today: This is how many calories you should consume to hit your weight loss goal(x).
Consume Tomorrow: This is like a guide so you can make a choice today and see how it will affect you tomorrow. You can save calories up, exercise more to earn calories. If you over eat one day, it will take calories away from tomorrow. If you under ate it will add calories to your goal for tomorrow. It will always let you know where you stand in your weight loss

That's pretty neat and more advanced than what I did for myself for the tracking part. Thanks, I'm sure it will help many people.
For me, and something you might want to integrate, the tool that really helped was the data extraction macro someone wrote to get all of the MFP daily data - I then used it to calculate an experiential TDEE over running averages days, an expBMR (and observed a drop over time) that got me to my current spot.
Once you've got a TDEE and loss rate that works, it's all about tracking. If I were starting over I'd likely use your version of IPOARM as my starting point. Currently, I'm dialed more or less - weight is stable or slowly gaining/losing on 3 week cycles or would be. My personal family issues are overwhelming part of my normal training and eating habits - I usually cook most of my meals, but providing hospice care, feeding 5-6 other adults, visitors, dealing with all, work, my children back in europe, well, it all has me satisfied if I complete my log. Life on hold, a little.