Criticism vs Shaming

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  • panicintheattic
    panicintheattic Posts: 102 Member
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    Plenty of people thought it was wrong for the teacher to make the comment - but there plenty of others who feel that it wasn't bullying and that overweight/obese people should be shamed or bullied into losing weight.

    The problem with bullying or shaming people into losing weight is that poor self-esteem or other emotional problems are often at the heart of a great many people's over-eating issues. Adding to their poor self-esteem doesn't help them, it simply confirms all the nasty things they're already thinking about themselves.

    The times in my life when I've really got down to losing weight (like now) have been times when I've been feeling confident and positive and had a lot of non-judgemental support. The times I've holed up in my house like a hermit, stuffing my face, have been the times when I've been at my most unhappy - anyone attempting to 'shame' me during those times would have only driven me to be even more self-destructive with food and drink.

    ^^^^This^^^
    And then there's this^^
    If people are telling you something is wrong with you your whole life, how do you expect they'll continue to feel even after they decide they want to change?
  • 2FatToRun
    2FatToRun Posts: 810 Member
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    "Hey, I think your weight might be affecting your health" and "Hey, your weight is affecting the way you look in those clothes" are two totally different statements. The first might show concern and the second just shows you being an ignorant, superficial, judgmental *kitten*.
    Not to mention, to be able to sit there and "coach" other people on how to exercise and how to eat right is a totally privileged position. If you have access to open, safe outdoor spaces and an actual grocery store where you can buy fresh produce, you're in actuality extremely lucky.

    Same as saying you are fat just in a beating around the bush way......and as far as privileged positions of "coaching" we all do it on a daily basis with our BFFF's by motivating them to exercise or make better eating choices. Exercising and groceries have nothing to do with "luck" you either do what you need to do or you make excuses to stay where you are.
  • DalekBrittany
    DalekBrittany Posts: 1,748 Member
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    Am I the only one that doesn't see fat people and think they're a slob, or see a muscular guy and think he is stupid, or see someone in a skirt and think how they could bother to come out into public because they have "skinny legs"? Really, does anyone else not do this? I may have my judgments from time to time but I certainly don't sit there and put down other people in my head.

    People that are constantly putting down other people usually do so because they are insecure in themselves and often make fun of people for something they are jealous of or what they see in themselves that they don't like. Seeing a fat person say how someone that is fat is a pig is just reflecting their own opinions of their own self onto someone else. Saying a muscular guy is stupid is a judgement based on the fact that the person judging is probably not very muscular. The person making fun of someone for being too skinny probably wishes they were skinnier. It's simple psychology, really.

    For me its not a dig or put down just a clear observation. I have many times stayed on the observation and had thoughts like...wow she has a pretty face I bet she would be super uber hot if she wasnt fat. So dont mistake someones observations as judgements or a reflection of their self worth.

    Edit: BTW if you are seeing muscular guys and the 1st thing yo think is they are stupid...seek help :laugh:

    No, not observations as judgements, I mean people who put others down. And I know, but I know a surprising amount of people that have said, Oh so and so is in shape, but I bet he's really dumb/stupid. I find it ridiculous.
  • CrazyTrackLady
    CrazyTrackLady Posts: 1,337 Member
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    The only people who fat shame are flat-out ignorant and need to mind their own business. If someone is unhealthy, and they're not a very close family or friend, you have NO right to stick your nose in.

    The student knows she is fat and will do something about it if she wants to. Some know-it-all hag of a teacher putting in her two-sense, isn't going to make a difference. People lose weight when it is personally their time to do so. Students go to school to learn, so unless it was a health teacher and she talked to her in private as to not embarrass her, then that teacher is stepping out of line and needs to find a new career. Stick to what you're paid to do.

    I agree- is it okay to tell a smoker that they need to stop smoking when you hardly know them? No, it's their choice and their life.

    Fat prejudice is really the last form of prejudice allowed. And with obesity rates climbing, I don't think it will be accepted for too much longer, as many fat-shamers grandchildren have a very good chance of being fat, which will change their outlook when it's someone they love/know.

    I am sorry you are so embittered by this. I believe that people who are self injuring DO need to be told they are doing so -- whether it is drugs, alcohol, food, gambling, shopping, etc. - in a voice and style that they need in order for it to sink in. Are we ultimately responsible for other people's choices? ABSOLUTELY NOT. But, if we refuse to say something to somebody we love, and they continue to indulge in those destructive habits, then we are enabling them, period.

    I have an alcoholic brother who nearly died from his disease. He has been an alcoholic for years and years and years, and his wife enabled this behavior by continuing to buy him and bring him alcohol, while she drank alongside of him and they enjoyed all the partying they did. Well guess what? After a 4 month hospital stay that included a 3 week medically induced coma for detox, a series of strokes/apraxia, the inability to eat, drink or talk for nearly a year later, SHE decided he had become too big of a burden to help anymore, so she basically told him she's done with him. I feel that, had she DEMANDED he get help for his situation before it got worse, then maybe their lives would have turned out better.

    My husband smoked for years, and I despised it. For years, I would say nothing about it, because I didn't want to appear to be "nagging". Well, I knew a lot of the anger he was directing at me over small things was due to his anger and failure over kicking his habit. One day, in a fit of rage, I told him that "if you want things to change, than freaking STOP SMOKING! Quit whining and JUST DO IT!" He finally heard what I said and admitted that he needed to do something about his problem. He quit the next week and has never gone back.

    Call me cold hearted, but people with addictions NEED to have someone in their life strong enough to look them dead in the eye and say "YOU HAVE A PROBLEM AND YOU NEED TO CHECK YOURSELF OVER IT". This mambsy-pambsy refusal to tell it like it is is ruining our country's youth because there is more concern over "hurting feelings" and "bullying" than a good, old fashioned "GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER" wake up call.
  • DalekBrittany
    DalekBrittany Posts: 1,748 Member
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    And I agree with what I think it was Contrarian (?) said. Bullying someone and putting them down, insulting them are different things entirely.

    Constantly insulting someone and going out of your way to do so, like sending them messages, seeking them out to do so, etc is bullying. Calling someone a name or exchanging words with them is not.

    Beating someone up/physically harming them is bullying, or going out of your way to make that person think you are going to physically harm them is bullying. Someone telling you you are fat is not.
  • Contrarian
    Contrarian Posts: 8,138 Member
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    I will be glad when "bullying" stops being the word people use whenever anyone says anything rude, obnoxious or just not in line with the opinions of another. Someone making one insensitive comment to another adult isn't bullying.

    ^^^^^ yes


    ps grow some skin ppl sensitivity is over rated...try honesty (better results)

    I'm not saying no one has the right to have hurt feelings, and I understand that many people are very sensitive. It just isn't bullying.
  • kimmireads
    kimmireads Posts: 66 Member
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    This post has received a lot of responses. I'll try to be brief for anyone who's still reading.

    My response is similar to how I feel about the "Biggest Loser" type of encouragement. The trainer in your face, telling you that you've been lazy and irresponsible, shaming you into working out harder. . . telling you that you're not doing well enough, etc.

    This is a bad form of "encouragement". We should be building people up with positive encouragement. Think of it when it comes to encouraging kids in school. Should we challenge kids to do well in school by suggesting that they are losers or stupid if they can't get an "A"? If motivating people to do something well is supposed to build confidence, I don't see how that can be done by tearing someone down. Others point out that obese people have poor self-confidence. Shaming them or humiliating them in front of others is psychologically damaging and wrong. Being kind, empathetic, and concerned is one thing. Being rude, judgmental, and harsh for effect is almost never called for. I can't think of a compassionate human being using humiliation or shaming to motivate someone to do something. It's just wrong. If we can't call kids stupid or losers to motivate them to do better in school, why should it be any different with obese people?

    Edit: And technically, to humiliate or make fun of a student in class about his weight could be construed as a form of harassment. A kid who knew his rights might appeal to his parents to sue the school. They would have a fair chance of winning. Students are entitled to a safe learning environment, just as workers are entitled to a safe working environment. A kid *does not* have a choice to attend school. A teacher *does*. Teacher should keep this in mind. Their students are usually forced by state law, or by their parents (in high school), to go to school. We already have enough problems in education without shaming our children about their weight in the presence of their peers. Kids are cruel enough to each other as it is, why should the adults model this behavior to students?

    ^^^Well Said^^^
  • jerber160
    jerber160 Posts: 2,606 Member
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    A teacher should never tell a student she is fat. If a teacher is that concerned about a student's weight, she can do a couple of things. 1. Mention it to the school nurse and have the nurse evaluate if there is a health issue. Then the nurse can contact the parents 2. Decide to have a class lecture on healthy eating and exercise for the entire class, never addressing the child in question specifically.

    I also call BS on coaches who believe they need to shame their players into performing better. To me it's the same logic. You can motivate people without shaming them, especially children.

    As a health teacher, it is in my curriculum to teach about healthy eating and nutrition. While I do not call out any student for being overweight, and trust me, I have a few overweight students in my class, I WILL emphasize the importance of eating a balanced diet, stick to the calorie levels kids this age should be consuming, and inform them of the amount of calories, sugar, sodium and fat there are in local fast food restaurants. They LEARN this information so they can make better choices. But, the choice to eat what they eat remains entirely up to them -- and I do not "shame" anyone. What I hope to have happen is what happened last year with my students: "Wow, there are 37 teaspoons full of sugar in that Sonic fruit smoothie!" "Wow, there are 850 calories in that one slice of loaded pizza!" "WHOA, one BK whopper with cheese, large fry and large coke is nearly an ENTIRE day's worth of calories!"

    That's what they learn -- and no one is shamed in the process.
    any suggestions for getting to NOT reach for a second cupcake for dessert? Spring musical. parents cook for kids between afternoon and evening rehearsal. Fat girl has 4 cupcakes after eating the salad and pasta and veggies...
  • jerber160
    jerber160 Posts: 2,606 Member
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    The teenage years is really an opportune time to have a weight discussion. Who's going to tell a grown up to lose weight? Even doctors don't always. With young children, you never know if they'll grow out of it or if that's the way they're built. Except obvious situations like with the first grader.
    I kinda think the teenage years can be too late in some cases. but i also think the parents need to be involved...
  • 2FatToRun
    2FatToRun Posts: 810 Member
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    A teacher should never tell a student she is fat. If a teacher is that concerned about a student's weight, she can do a couple of things. 1. Mention it to the school nurse and have the nurse evaluate if there is a health issue. Then the nurse can contact the parents 2. Decide to have a class lecture on healthy eating and exercise for the entire class, never addressing the child in question specifically.

    I also call BS on coaches who believe they need to shame their players into performing better. To me it's the same logic. You can motivate people without shaming them, especially children.

    As a health teacher, it is in my curriculum to teach about healthy eating and nutrition. While I do not call out any student for being overweight, and trust me, I have a few overweight students in my class, I WILL emphasize the importance of eating a balanced diet, stick to the calorie levels kids this age should be consuming, and inform them of the amount of calories, sugar, sodium and fat there are in local fast food restaurants. They LEARN this information so they can make better choices. But, the choice to eat what they eat remains entirely up to them -- and I do not "shame" anyone. What I hope to have happen is what happened last year with my students: "Wow, there are 37 teaspoons full of sugar in that Sonic fruit smoothie!" "Wow, there are 850 calories in that one slice of loaded pizza!" "WHOA, one BK whopper with cheese, large fry and large coke is nearly an ENTIRE day's worth of calories!"

    That's what they learn -- and no one is shamed in the process.
    any suggestions for getting to NOT reach for a second cupcake for dessert? Spring musical. parents cook for kids between afternoon and evening rehearsal. Fat girl has 4 cupcakes after eating the salad and pasta and veggies...

    Put a sign One cupcake per person. Being a teacher you cant really say no more you are already fat because parents would flip a lid over their precious snowflake. Your hands are tied so if you really care that much, think of things ahead of time to prevent these issues. It isnt your responsibility but I know as a teacher you have to shut up about alot of things which is total BS.
  • theseus82
    theseus82 Posts: 255 Member
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    This post has received a lot of responses. I'll try to be brief for anyone who's still reading.

    My response is similar to how I feel about the "Biggest Loser" type of encouragement. The trainer in your face, telling you that you've been lazy and irresponsible, shaming you into working out harder. . . telling you that you're not doing well enough, etc.

    This is a bad form of "encouragement". We should be building people up with positive encouragement. Think of it when it comes to encouraging kids in school. Should we challenge kids to do well in school by suggesting that they are losers or stupid if they can't get an "A"? If motivating people to do something well is supposed to build confidence, I don't see how that can be done by tearing someone down. Others point out that obese people have poor self-confidence. Shaming them or humiliating them in front of others is psychologically damaging and wrong. Being kind, empathetic, and concerned is one thing. Being rude, judgmental, and harsh for effect is almost never called for. I can't think of a compassionate human being using humiliation or shaming to motivate someone to do something. It's just wrong. If we can't call kids stupid or losers to motivate them to do better in school, why should it be any different with obese people?

    Edit: And technically, to humiliate or make fun of a student in class about his weight could be construed as a form of harassment. A kid who knew his rights might appeal to his parents to sue the school. They would have a fair chance of winning. Students are entitled to a safe learning environment, just as workers are entitled to a safe working environment. A kid *does not* have a choice to attend school. A teacher *does*. Teacher should keep this in mind. Their students are usually forced by state law, or by their parents (in high school), to go to school. We already have enough problems in education without shaming our children about their weight in the presence of their peers. Kids are cruel enough to each other as it is, why should the adults model this behavior to students?

    You've got a strong point, but negative reinforcement sometimes can be just as helpful if not more beneficial to the person. Strict positive reinforcement with no negative reinforcement is not a good idea. Sorry.

    Negative reinforcement may be beneficial in some situations, but in this case, I don't think it is the teacher's place to shame kids about their weight. Leave that to the parents. Shaming kids in front of their peers at school is cruel and damaging. School bullying is a big problem, and if the teachers join in on the bullying, it definitely sends the wrong message, and actually makes the problem of bullying worse.

    Edit: Also "negative reinforcement" does not refer to just shaming and humiliation. Negative reinforcement in parenting is like saying, "If you keep sassing your mother, you're grounded." Or, "If you don't do your chores, you won't get allowance." See the difference? Negative reinforcement is another tool for parents and teachers, but humiliation is not some fundamental part of it that needs to be there. A teacher might say, "If you fail this class, you will have to retake it." Or, "If you don't learn basic math, it will hindrance your future." This is all negative reinforcement, but not the same thing as a teacher announcing, "John can't subtract, he must be a real idiot. . ."
  • theseus82
    theseus82 Posts: 255 Member
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    I don't think shaming is productive at all. Shame and desperation make people buy into stupid fad starvation diets so restrictive they give up and gain their weight back and then some. Shame skews your relationship with food so that starving is righteous and the inevitable binging that follows brings on such self-loathing that you give up hope. Shame makes you feel trapped and helpless in your own body. Shame makes you unable to bear the thought of exercising publicly.

    Well said. Agreed.

    Edit: sorry for the double-post.
  • CrazyTrackLady
    CrazyTrackLady Posts: 1,337 Member
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    A teacher should never tell a student she is fat. If a teacher is that concerned about a student's weight, she can do a couple of things. 1. Mention it to the school nurse and have the nurse evaluate if there is a health issue. Then the nurse can contact the parents 2. Decide to have a class lecture on healthy eating and exercise for the entire class, never addressing the child in question specifically.

    I also call BS on coaches who believe they need to shame their players into performing better. To me it's the same logic. You can motivate people without shaming them, especially children.

    As a health teacher, it is in my curriculum to teach about healthy eating and nutrition. While I do not call out any student for being overweight, and trust me, I have a few overweight students in my class, I WILL emphasize the importance of eating a balanced diet, stick to the calorie levels kids this age should be consuming, and inform them of the amount of calories, sugar, sodium and fat there are in local fast food restaurants. They LEARN this information so they can make better choices. But, the choice to eat what they eat remains entirely up to them -- and I do not "shame" anyone. What I hope to have happen is what happened last year with my students: "Wow, there are 37 teaspoons full of sugar in that Sonic fruit smoothie!" "Wow, there are 850 calories in that one slice of loaded pizza!" "WHOA, one BK whopper with cheese, large fry and large coke is nearly an ENTIRE day's worth of calories!"

    That's what they learn -- and no one is shamed in the process.
    any suggestions for getting to NOT reach for a second cupcake for dessert? Spring musical. parents cook for kids between afternoon and evening rehearsal. Fat girl has 4 cupcakes after eating the salad and pasta and veggies...

    Our school has a policy about bringing in sweets for the kids. Kids are only allowed 1 treat per child, and 1 healthy option. The parents and students in my class/grade KNOW I don't eat gluten, because I tell them "No thanks, I can't" - so they will make sure something healthy is sent in for me. Also, I encourage my students to bring in healthy snacks for our mid morning snacks -- pretzels, fruit, popcorn, etc, while I eat dark cocoa almonds or a piece of fruit. I also say "What you eat for lunch is YOUR business, but what you eat in MY ROOM, is MY business."
  • 2FatToRun
    2FatToRun Posts: 810 Member
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    A teacher should never tell a student she is fat. If a teacher is that concerned about a student's weight, she can do a couple of things. 1. Mention it to the school nurse and have the nurse evaluate if there is a health issue. Then the nurse can contact the parents 2. Decide to have a class lecture on healthy eating and exercise for the entire class, never addressing the child in question specifically.

    I also call BS on coaches who believe they need to shame their players into performing better. To me it's the same logic. You can motivate people without shaming them, especially children.

    As a health teacher, it is in my curriculum to teach about healthy eating and nutrition. While I do not call out any student for being overweight, and trust me, I have a few overweight students in my class, I WILL emphasize the importance of eating a balanced diet, stick to the calorie levels kids this age should be consuming, and inform them of the amount of calories, sugar, sodium and fat there are in local fast food restaurants. They LEARN this information so they can make better choices. But, the choice to eat what they eat remains entirely up to them -- and I do not "shame" anyone. What I hope to have happen is what happened last year with my students: "Wow, there are 37 teaspoons full of sugar in that Sonic fruit smoothie!" "Wow, there are 850 calories in that one slice of loaded pizza!" "WHOA, one BK whopper with cheese, large fry and large coke is nearly an ENTIRE day's worth of calories!"

    That's what they learn -- and no one is shamed in the process.
    any suggestions for getting to NOT reach for a second cupcake for dessert? Spring musical. parents cook for kids between afternoon and evening rehearsal. Fat girl has 4 cupcakes after eating the salad and pasta and veggies...

    Our school has a policy about bringing in sweets for the kids. Kids are only allowed 1 treat per child, and 1 healthy option. The parents and students in my class/grade KNOW I don't eat gluten, because I tell them "No thanks, I can't" - so they will make sure something healthy is sent in for me. Also, I encourage my students to bring in healthy snacks for our mid morning snacks -- pretzels, fruit, popcorn, etc, while I eat dark cocoa almonds or a piece of fruit. I also say "What you eat for lunch is YOUR business, but what you eat in MY ROOM, is MY business."

    ^^^^^^:love: Leading by example! Our school doesnt allow junk for snack either. So my 12 yr old takes granola bar or fruit lol I make him take a box to school every week in case the other kids who parents dont care come to school empty handed.
  • DalekBrittany
    DalekBrittany Posts: 1,748 Member
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    This post has received a lot of responses. I'll try to be brief for anyone who's still reading.

    My response is similar to how I feel about the "Biggest Loser" type of encouragement. The trainer in your face, telling you that you've been lazy and irresponsible, shaming you into working out harder. . . telling you that you're not doing well enough, etc.

    This is a bad form of "encouragement". We should be building people up with positive encouragement. Think of it when it comes to encouraging kids in school. Should we challenge kids to do well in school by suggesting that they are losers or stupid if they can't get an "A"? If motivating people to do something well is supposed to build confidence, I don't see how that can be done by tearing someone down. Others point out that obese people have poor self-confidence. Shaming them or humiliating them in front of others is psychologically damaging and wrong. Being kind, empathetic, and concerned is one thing. Being rude, judgmental, and harsh for effect is almost never called for. I can't think of a compassionate human being using humiliation or shaming to motivate someone to do something. It's just wrong. If we can't call kids stupid or losers to motivate them to do better in school, why should it be any different with obese people?

    Edit: And technically, to humiliate or make fun of a student in class about his weight could be construed as a form of harassment. A kid who knew his rights might appeal to his parents to sue the school. They would have a fair chance of winning. Students are entitled to a safe learning environment, just as workers are entitled to a safe working environment. A kid *does not* have a choice to attend school. A teacher *does*. Teacher should keep this in mind. Their students are usually forced by state law, or by their parents (in high school), to go to school. We already have enough problems in education without shaming our children about their weight in the presence of their peers. Kids are cruel enough to each other as it is, why should the adults model this behavior to students?

    You've got a strong point, but negative reinforcement sometimes can be just as helpful if not more beneficial to the person. Strict positive reinforcement with no negative reinforcement is not a good idea. Sorry.

    Negative reinforcement may be beneficial in some situations, but in this case, I don't think it is the teacher's place to shame kids about their weight. Leave that to the parents. Shaming kids in front of their peers at school is cruel and damaging. School bullying is a big problem, and if the teachers join in on the bullying, it definitely sends the wrong message, and actually makes the problem of bullying worse.

    Edit: Also "negative reinforcement" does not refer to just shaming and humiliation. Negative reinforcement in parenting is like saying, "If you keep sassing your mother, you're grounded." Or, "If you don't do your chores, you won't get allowance." See the difference? Negative reinforcement is another tool for parents and teachers, but humiliation is not some fundamental part of it that needs to be there. A teacher might say, "If you fail this class, you will have to retake it." Or, "If you don't learn basic math, it will hindrance your future." This is all negative reinforcement, but not the same thing as a teacher announcing, "John can't subtract, he must be a real idiot. . ."

    I am aware of the difference. But what you said was positive "encouragement" which is the same thing as positive reinforcement, and you applied it to situations other than what we are talking about here, and so have I.
  • crlyxx
    crlyxx Posts: 186 Member
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    Ironically, being bullied for something usually just makes that person do it even more. I.e. if you're overweight and you get picked on for it, you usually end up eating more.
  • jerber160
    jerber160 Posts: 2,606 Member
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    Shame makes you feel trapped and helpless in your own body. Shame makes you unable to bear the thought of exercising publicly.
    so is there a good answer? I have a student feeling more and more 'trapped in her body' she's 7th grade at a performing arts high school and has trouble getting up and down off the floor... kneeling and stuff. her family is uniformly large and she's following right in line. getting taller and rounder and it's harder for her to move and is definitely seeing other kids pass her up in performance. It's a school policy we're not allowed to talk to kids about their weight, but I did point out one day that I had one cupcake, not 4 after eating a full meal.
  • theseus82
    theseus82 Posts: 255 Member
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    Negative reinforcement may be beneficial in some situations, but in this case, I don't think it is the teacher's place to shame kids about their weight. Leave that to the parents. Shaming kids in front of their peers at school is cruel and damaging. School bullying is a big problem, and if the teachers join in on the bullying, it definitely sends the wrong message, and actually makes the problem of bullying worse.

    Edit: Also "negative reinforcement" does not refer to just shaming and humiliation. Negative reinforcement in parenting is like saying, "If you keep sassing your mother, you're grounded." Or, "If you don't do your chores, you won't get allowance." See the difference? Negative reinforcement is another tool for parents and teachers, but humiliation is not some fundamental part of it that needs to be there. A teacher might say, "If you fail this class, you will have to retake it." Or, "If you don't learn basic math, it will hindrance your future." This is all negative reinforcement, but not the same thing as a teacher announcing, "John can't subtract, he must be a real idiot. . ."

    I am aware of the difference. But what you said was positive "encouragement" which is the same thing as positive reinforcement, and you applied it to situations other than what we are talking about here, and so have I.

    I equated shaming or humiliating in one sense (grades and intelligence), with shaming someone about their weight.

    The comparison was made to suggest that if it is wrong to humiliate a student to get them to achieve better grades, it is also wrong to shame or humiliate them in front of their peers to get them to want to lose weight. The role of whether the latter was even in the teacher's job was also raised.

    I agree with you that endless positive reinforcement and praising children for no actual accomplishments is a bad thing. George Carlin criticized the culture of hyper-positivity and whether excessive confidence building was actually positive for children. Endlessly telling kids that they are amazing is not good. Humility should at least be a value. This endless culture of, "you are so great and amazing, and everything you do is amazing" is a problem with our notions of child-rearing today. But I think you are confusing that fair complaint with the reality that what this teacher did to the student in front of his peers is outside of her domain, is quite possibly illegal (harassment), and is not the best form of motivation for someone who is obese. I mentioned the instance of calling kids stupid as an example of what we can all agree as not acceptable behavior. The same logic applies to this.

    And while you are allowed to bring up other areas, what you have not done is challenged the central issue of whether the teacher has any legitimate ability to shame a student in front of his peers about his weight.

    And, I will preemptively state that, even if some overweight/obese people think that shame and public humiliation is a great motivator for them, they should not get the right to speak for the rest of us. In a majority of cases, shaming a person about their weight in front of their peers is bad behavior. And while you focus on an issue that wasn't at the heart of what I was saying: positive reinforcement, what my main point was whether shaming and humiliation are necessary parts of negative reinforcement. Most of what I said had to do with negative reinforcement.

    So you have blurred the issue, which is simply whether humiliation and shaming are necessary forms of negative reinforcement. I have suggested that they aren't, and that, for the teacher to employ them in the classroom is both ethically and legally wrong.
  • jennifer_417
    jennifer_417 Posts: 12,344 Member
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    There is a time and place for everything. An honest word, spoken at the right time, can sometimes be the kindest thing you can do for a person. However, there is never a proper time or pace for bullying or shaming.
  • DalekBrittany
    DalekBrittany Posts: 1,748 Member
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    And while you are allowed to bring up other areas, what you have not done is challenged the central issue of whether the teacher has any legitimate ability to shame a student in front of his peers about his weight.

    I get what you are saying. To this, though, I don't know if it's just wording or if you mean ability. Of course she had the ability, everyone has the ability to shame someone. It's more of a question of whether she had the right to do so.

    I do believe in this case, though I have not read the story, that if the teacher was truly worried about this child being obese she could have done something more constructive, like tell the class "we're all going to bring healthy snacks tomorrow." That way the kid doesn't feel singled out and the teacher feels like she can do something. That's just assuming it was a young child anyway.