What is bad with too much protein?

July24Lioness

Atkins is good, don't get me wrong, thats how I lost my weight.
But how is your doctor and nutritionist happy that your diet is mainly saturated fat?

Is true that you need everything in moderation, but I would have thought they would be concerned that your diet is high is saturated fats? I am!! ??

Saturated fats are not bad for you, actually any fat that is made in nature is good for you. Since I have switched to a high saturated fats and got rid of all PUFA's (aka vegetable oils) - my cholesterol has went way down, triglyercides are in order and all of my other blood work is perfect.

I am on my way to reversing the Type 2 diabetes with the way I eat.

Saturated fats ARE EXTREMELY BAD FOR YOU, in particular the ones that come from animal protein. :grumble: MONO and EFA's are OK though.
When one is obese though, a quick way to jumpstart weight loss is via "atkins" method. South Beach is healthier for just" over weight" people, and much more sustainable as a lifestyle.
High protein diets that do not incorporate veggies and fruits can cause people to have too much sodium intake, high cholesterol and triglycerides and also not enough fiber or minerals.

I have tried every diet out there: Atkins made me lose weight, have horrible breath and be miserable at parties (no cake) until I discovered the land of fake/processed sugar free stuff... which gave me horrendous cramps and gas.

When my mom was pregnant (5'5 ~125lbs before pregnant), the doctor advised her to eat "more protein" while pregnant, but not more "food" to prevent gaining too much pregnancy weight. This was 1981 and he suggested 80-90 grams of protein... even while pregnant! SO--- WE REALLY DONT NEED that much, but I suppose its OK to have extra here and there while dieting, as long as its low fat.

Currently, mom lives a variation of "atkins" but not being in ketosis for more than 3 days at a time. She loved eating 'high protein' so much that it stuck with her. She eats fruit only in the am and also will have pasta every once in awhile (were Italian). She loves her red meat and I have finally gotten her to eat egg whites, low fat mozarella and spinach for breakfast as opposed to regular eggs with cheddar cheese. Small adjustments like that work on atkins, which help you to get all the nutrients and folage we need.

I am a vegetarian and somehow end up eating between 60-80 grams of protein a day.... FLESH FREE. go figure! :blushing:
Eat veggies and eat fruits.... ALWAYS! :flowerforyou:

You are very incorrect, saturated animal fats are NATURAL fats, and they are not bad for you. I will debate and argue this point with anyone until the end.

How did I have extremely HIGH cholesterol and triglycerides BEFORE starting Atkins and now maintain healthy cholesterol and triglyceride levels when I cut out SUGAR most natural and processed? My cholesterol and triglycerides dropped drastically when I added in saturated fats and took out grains and sugar.

And I do eat veggies. That 10% of my daily eating that is carbs is all vegetables. We don't "need" fruit. I look at fruit as an occasional dessert for myself.

MacguyverMommy

I think your health improved because you lost weight, plain and simple.
As far as everything else goes....Oh dear.
Well I think you are wrong and you think I am wrong. :mad:
We will just have to agree to disagree then. Unfortuneatly, I am just as stubborn as you are, it seems. :blushing:

lilmissy2

Most recommendations (from any reliable health source) are for 15-30% of energy coming from protein. Yes, high protein can absolutely damage your kidneys. Protein puts extra strain on kidneys - you won't see it now, you won't see it in 5-10 years but as people age, their kidney function decreases naturally. For people who have maintained high protein diets, this progression is much, much faster and much more severe.

Sometimes I might advise a high protein diet to a patient but only if it is for a controlled period of very low calorie diet... Now, I say high protein because the % of calories from protein is higher but that is only because the calorie content is so low. The total protein intake is still quite low (less than 100g/day). Other than that, I'm not sure dietitians prescribe high protein diets at all (well, certainly not for people trying to lose weight!).

lilmissy2

You are very incorrect, saturated animal fats are NATURAL fats, and they are not bad for you. I will debate and argue this point with anyone until the end.

I just don't get the whole natural debate. You know sugar is natural, right? I mean sure, we pull it out of the cane but dont we cut our meat up? Now I'm not saying sugar is good for you, actually that's exactly my point because I don't think saturated fats are good for you either.

Actually to be honest, I don't really understand the statement 'saturated animal fats are natural fats' unless of course you have your own animals that run about and live in the wild as they please and you just hunt them and eat them... most of our meat is from animals that are caged (to varying extents) and fed to ensure fast development and they have much more fat than the same type of animal in the wild should ever have... not really what I call natural.

MacguyverMommy

You are very incorrect, saturated animal fats are NATURAL fats, and they are not bad for you. I will debate and argue this point with anyone until the end.

I just don't get the whole natural debate. You know sugar is natural, right? I mean sure, we pull it out of the cane but dont we cut our meat up? Now I'm not saying sugar is good for you, actually that's exactly my point because I don't think saturated fats are good for you either.

Actually to be honest, I don't really understand the statement 'saturated animal fats are natural fats' unless of course you have your own animals that run about and live in the wild as they please and you just hunt them and eat them... most of our meat is from animals that are caged (to varying extents) and fed to ensure fast development and they have much more fat than the same type of animal in the wild should ever have... not really what I call natural.

Its really not up for debate. I think Lion has a a diet seen under the supervision of a doctor.
I know it sounds wierd, but when some people are obese, they NEED to lose weight ASAP to get healthy, like their hearts are working soo hard that an immediate change is needed to lower blood pressure, pressure on joints, help organs...etc. So doctoris tell them to do the Atkins way, in order to jumpstart the weight loss quickly and also to tend to the emotional side of the obiesety (from food they enjoy, they will maintain a positive outlook on weight loss and the dreaded word DIET), as it is clearly an emotional addiciton. This way the meat and potato eaters still get their meat, and extra serving of it. Its kind of a manipulation of the mind. It absolutely works- per my brother in law the doctor, my 2 nutritionist friends (and 2 of my old nutritionists) and my 3 personal trainer friends.

Once these obese people lose the weight, obviously, doctors tell them to eat a balanced diet. :bigsmile:

lilmissy2

You are very incorrect, saturated animal fats are NATURAL fats, and they are not bad for you. I will debate and argue this point with anyone until the end.

I just don't get the whole natural debate. You know sugar is natural, right? I mean sure, we pull it out of the cane but dont we cut our meat up? Now I'm not saying sugar is good for you, actually that's exactly my point because I don't think saturated fats are good for you either.

Actually to be honest, I don't really understand the statement 'saturated animal fats are natural fats' unless of course you have your own animals that run about and live in the wild as they please and you just hunt them and eat them... most of our meat is from animals that are caged (to varying extents) and fed to ensure fast development and they have much more fat than the same type of animal in the wild should ever have... not really what I call natural.

Its really not up for debate. I think Lion has a a diet seen under the supervision of a doctor.
I know it sounds wierd, but when some people are obese, they NEED to lose weight ASAP to get healthy, like their hearts are working soo hard that an immediate change is needed to lower blood pressure, pressure on joints, help organs...etc. So doctoris tell them to do the Atkins way, in order to jumpstart the weight loss quickly and also to tend to the emotional side of the obiesety (from food they enjoy, they will maintain a positive outlook on weight loss and the dreaded word DIET), as it is clearly an emotional addiciton. This way the meat and potato eaters still get their meat, and extra serving of it. Its kind of a manipulationof the mind. Once these obese people lose the weight, obviously, doctors tell them to eat a balanced diet. :bigsmile:

Well, a diet under the supervision of a doctor is one thing (not that as a registered dietitian I approve of that at all, not exactly their speciality) but sharing that advise with hundreds of people is another, so yes, I think it is up for debate.

MacguyverMommy

I WOULD normally debate her, but as a vegetarian, I have fought this battle with many people and it seems like she has her own reasons eating that way. But if you're up for it... be my guest! :drinker:

lilmissy2

Sorry, I didn't read that whole post but yes I agree that sometimes fast weight loss is required. Unfortunately, I don't think doctors always revert people back to healthy eating afterwards... and that's where the problem lies.

July24Lioness

You are very incorrect, saturated animal fats are NATURAL fats, and they are not bad for you. I will debate and argue this point with anyone until the end.

I just don't get the whole natural debate. You know sugar is natural, right? I mean sure, we pull it out of the cane but dont we cut our meat up? Now I'm not saying sugar is good for you, actually that's exactly my point because I don't think saturated fats are good for you either.

Actually to be honest, I don't really understand the statement 'saturated animal fats are natural fats' unless of course you have your own animals that run about and live in the wild as they please and you just hunt them and eat them... most of our meat is from animals that are caged (to varying extents) and fed to ensure fast development and they have much more fat than the same type of animal in the wild should ever have... not really what I call natural.

I eat farmed raised meat where the animals are left to graze and it is natural. And to the contrary, store bought meats are fed to ensure fast development (as you mentioned) i get my chickens and eggs from natural sources also.

Basically eating anything that is grown (animals, plants) is eating natural.


Sugar is only natural in vegetables and fruits. Cane sugar is no good until it is processed, so it is no longer a natural product.

lilmissy2

Oh Lion, I'm sorry I can never agree with this diet you use. I really do wish you the best and hope you don't pay for it with health problems that you aren't anticipating later in life.

lvfunandfit

35% of my calories come from protein. 30% from fat and 35% from carbs. I believe in a healthy balanced diet that incorporates LEAN protein, healthy carbs and healthy fats. Do the research, talk to fitness and nutrition specialists and figure out what works best for you. I do not believe in Atkins, South Beach, etc because you can't and won't eat like that forever! Life, which includes food, has to be balanced. It's difficult to maintain a diet that isn't one that fits your lifestyle. That's why you have to make a life style change. Choose healthy calories, burn more than you consume by exercising and you'll feel healthy and reach your goals.

I'd say look at my diary but I've been bad about logging lately since I've gotten used to what I can eat to stay within my calorie range. You can look back previous to this last week... I've been more on top of logging. I have 3 more lbs I want to lose and then I'll be at my goal all by eating a balance diet high in protein. I believe a person who exercises, weight trains, runs, etc on a regular basis needs more protein but you can't forget to include the healthy carbs and fats too.

sjcply

I believe a person who exercises, weight trains, runs, etc on a regular basis needs more protein but you can't forget to include the healthy carbs and fats too.

Very much true! Extra protein is good, but you cant leave out the other good things, like good carbs and good fat!

It is a good thing this forum is a matter of everyones opinion...you know the saying about that! :laugh:

ricklundgren83

Recommended value is .8 g to every kg of body weight.

Some high-protein diets de-emphasize high-carbohydrate, high-fiber plant foods. These foods help lower cholesterol when eaten as part of a nutritionally balanced diet. Reducing consumption of these foods usually means other, higher-fat foods are eaten instead. This raises cholesterol levels even more and increases cardiovascular risk.High-protein diets don't provide some essential vitamins, minerals, fiber and other nutritional elements. The liver and kidneys can also be severely affected.

LittleSpy

Recommended value is .8 g to every kg of body weight.

Some high-protein diets de-emphasize high-carbohydrate, high-fiber plant foods. These foods help lower cholesterol when eaten as part of a nutritionally balanced diet. Reducing consumption of these foods usually means other, higher-fat foods are eaten instead. This raises cholesterol levels even more and increases cardiovascular risk.High-protein diets don't provide some essential vitamins, minerals, fiber and other nutritional elements. The liver and kidneys can also be severely affected.

To clarify, it's TRANS fats that raise bad cholesterol levels and lower good cholesterol levels. Saturated & unsaturated fats are both very very very essential to a proper diet.

lilmissy2

Both saturated fats and trans fats have been shown to increase cholesterol.

LittleSpy

Both saturated fats and trans fats have been shown to increase cholesterol.

But saturated fats have also been shown to INCREASE HDL (good cholesterol) which is a *good* thing (but as a dietician you'd know that). I said it's trans fat that BOTH increases LDL (bad cholesterol) AND decreases HDL (good cholesterol).

Edit: Now I don't think I could advocate eating a very large percentage of saturated fat without reading a *lot* more research and articles from both ends of the spectrum. I was merely pointing out saturated fat doesn't appear to be the villian it has previously been made out to be (thanks to that widely disputed and discredited reserach in the 1950s) and that it can do good things for our body. Kind of how dietary cholesterol was made out to be a huge stink-monster & then we were told (much more quietly) that it's not nearly as big a deal as it was made out to be for a while.

lvfunandfit

I believe a person who exercises, weight trains, runs, etc on a regular basis needs more protein but you can't forget to include the healthy carbs and fats too.

Very much true! Extra protein is good, but you cant leave out the other good things, like good carbs and good fat!

It is a good thing this forum is a matter of everyones opinion...you know the saying about that! :laugh:

LOL

We said the same thing

angela8

I am not allowed to eat much fiber so I am eating and drinking lots of protein. It is great for the muscle's especially after a workout. I too play softball so my dinner usually consists of a protein shake afterwards. I am seeing my muscle increasing so I am hitting harder and running faster. I say drink up!!!!

July24Lioness

Both saturated fats and trans fats have been shown to increase cholesterol.

Well I can tell you from my experience and my husband's and the 1000's of others that belong to a low carb website that is a fallacy as far as the saturated fats go.

Get rid of the sugary, grainy carbs and up the fats (but NO transfats) and eat plenty of fat, protein and green leafy veggies and you will see your total cholesterol go DOWN, HDL go UP and LDL go DOWN as well as the triglycerides going down also.

I have my blood work as proof, along with everything I have been reading is proof enough for me.


P. S. - My husband has gotten off his high blood pressure medication too.

July24Lioness

Here are some articles to read if any one has an open mind about saturated fats..............

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magazine/what-if-it-s-all-been-a-big-fat-lie.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22116724/

http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2009/06/06/saturated-fat/

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2002/08/17/saturated-fat1.aspx

Serenifly

Wow my head is spinning ... I've been trying to eat right for 5 months now (after sucsessfully losing 50 lbs by exersise alone) took me 4 years but whatevs

I have NO idea what a transfat, saturated fat, natrual fat or flesh free fat it ... I do know I consumed over 1500mg's of sodium the other day, and I have no idea how or how that is bad for me ...

Wow you guys all know sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much! lol

July24Lioness

You are very incorrect, saturated animal fats are NATURAL fats, and they are not bad for you. I will debate and argue this point with anyone until the end.

I just don't get the whole natural debate. You know sugar is natural, right? I mean sure, we pull it out of the cane but dont we cut our meat up? Now I'm not saying sugar is good for you, actually that's exactly my point because I don't think saturated fats are good for you either.

Actually to be honest, I don't really understand the statement 'saturated animal fats are natural fats' unless of course you have your own animals that run about and live in the wild as they please and you just hunt them and eat them... most of our meat is from animals that are caged (to varying extents) and fed to ensure fast development and they have much more fat than the same type of animal in the wild should ever have... not really what I call natural.

Its really not up for debate. I think Lion has a a diet seen under the supervision of a doctor.
I know it sounds wierd, but when some people are obese, they NEED to lose weight ASAP to get healthy, like their hearts are working soo hard that an immediate change is needed to lower blood pressure, pressure on joints, help organs...etc. So doctoris tell them to do the Atkins way, in order to jumpstart the weight loss quickly and also to tend to the emotional side of the obiesety (from food they enjoy, they will maintain a positive outlook on weight loss and the dreaded word DIET), as it is clearly an emotional addiciton. This way the meat and potato eaters still get their meat, and extra serving of it. Its kind of a manipulation of the mind. It absolutely works- per my brother in law the doctor, my 2 nutritionist friends (and 2 of my old nutritionists) and my 3 personal trainer friends.

Once these obese people lose the weight, obviously, doctors tell them to eat a balanced diet. :bigsmile:

This has nothing to do with "emotional" eating and such and this is not a diet for me. This will be the way I eat for LIFE!! This is not being done to spark quick weight loss. I am a slow loser even on a very low carb eating plan because of multiple endocrine issues, but I am ok with that.

I was one of the naysayers when I found out I was diabetic and was told that I had to adhere to the Atkins plan or a similar plan for life to reverse and cure myself of diabetes. I started researching and then tried it and I am now a converted believer in the low carb and all natural lifestyle.

July24Lioness

I think your health improved because you lost weight, plain and simple.
As far as everything else goes....Oh dear.
Well I think you are wrong and you think I am wrong. :mad:
We will just have to agree to disagree then. Unfortuneatly, I am just as stubborn as you are, it seems. :blushing:

Wrong again. I haven't lost that much weight as I am a slow loser, but the benefits of feeling good, sleeping good, having more energy, etc are coming from the way I eat. Plain and simple.

July24Lioness

35% of my calories come from protein. 30% from fat and 35% from carbs. I believe in a healthy balanced diet that incorporates LEAN protein, healthy carbs and healthy fats. Do the research, talk to fitness and nutrition specialists and figure out what works best for you. I do not believe in Atkins, South Beach, etc because you can't and won't eat like that forever! Life, which includes food, has to be balanced. It's difficult to maintain a diet that isn't one that fits your lifestyle. That's why you have to make a life style change. Choose healthy calories, burn more than you consume by exercising and you'll feel healthy and reach your goals.

I'd say look at my diary but I've been bad about logging lately since I've gotten used to what I can eat to stay within my calorie range. You can look back previous to this last week... I've been more on top of logging. I have 3 more lbs I want to lose and then I'll be at my goal all by eating a balance diet high in protein. I believe a person who exercises, weight trains, runs, etc on a regular basis needs more protein but you can't forget to include the healthy carbs and fats too.

I don't even do a plan like Atkins any longer, I do a plan that is stricter than Atkins.

I do know for a fact that Atkins, South Beach and other low carb plan are doable for life. I stopped Atkins because when you get to the point in Phase 2 of adding back in grains, beans, legumes and higher carb veggies and fruits I start gaining weight again.

So I have switched over to a Paleo plan that doesn't allow grains, beans, legumes, dairy and I am ok with that.

I get my satiety from eating protein and fats along with plenty of veggies. Fruit and greek yogurt for me are indulgences like a dessert.

hiddensecant

Wow my head is spinning ... I've been trying to eat right for 5 months now (after sucsessfully losing 50 lbs by exersise alone) took me 4 years but whatevs

I have NO idea what a transfat, saturated fat, natrual fat or flesh free fat it ... I do know I consumed over 1500mg's of sodium the other day, and I have no idea how or how that is bad for me ...

Wow you guys all know sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much! lol

Back to you ... I think you're doing just fine :laugh:.

sjcply

Wow my head is spinning ... I've been trying to eat right for 5 months now (after sucsessfully losing 50 lbs by exersise alone) took me 4 years but whatevs

I have NO idea what a transfat, saturated fat, natrual fat or flesh free fat it ... I do know I consumed over 1500mg's of sodium the other day, and I have no idea how or how that is bad for me ...

Wow you guys all know sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much! lol

LOL....aren't you glad you started such a controversial subject! :ohwell:

lilmissy2

Both saturated fats and trans fats have been shown to increase cholesterol.

But saturated fats have also been shown to INCREASE HDL (good cholesterol) which is a *good* thing (but as a dietician you'd know that). I said it's trans fat that BOTH increases LDL (bad cholesterol) AND decreases HDL (good cholesterol).

Edit: Now I don't think I could advocate eating a very large percentage of saturated fat without reading a *lot* more research and articles from both ends of the spectrum. I was merely pointing out saturated fat doesn't appear to be the villian it has previously been made out to be (thanks to that widely disputed and discredited reserach in the 1950s) and that it can do good things for our body. Kind of how dietary cholesterol was made out to be a huge stink-monster & then we were told (much more quietly) that it's not nearly as big a deal as it was made out to be for a while.

Actually as a dietitian I've never heard of saturated fats increasing HDL cholesterol which makes me think it is rubbish since that would be a pretty huge scientific breakthrough, not likely something I wouldn't hear about. It is actually true that you do require some saturated fats, the danger is in having too much. What you are failing to understand is that even what we refer to as 'unsaturated fats' contain some saturated fat. All fats are made up of a mixture of fatty acids - so for example - almonds might contain 15% saturated fats, 60% monounsaturated and 25% poly-unsaturated so we classify them as 'monounsaturated' because that is the greatest percentage in the food. This is why we don't recommend fats where the highest percentage is of saturated (ie those known as 'saturated fats') because they definitely put people at risk of eating too much of it.

I do hope that hasn't been too clinical and confused people more!