Workouts/eating/lifting/cardio/fat loss/MELTDOWN

Cockney365

I've been on MFP for a few years, at first just logging 1200 cals and exercises, happy days. Went off the rails, and since 1st January I have been back on track, lost 17lbs etc.

I've been reading more into different methods of weight loss, read the Road Map v3, about Stronglifts 5x5, IIFYM, NROLFW, Lean Gains, eat more to lose more, cardio bad, weights good, TDEE-20% and... I am confused! Here is the info:

Age: 31
Height: 5'7
Estimated BF%: 35% (yuk)
Goal BF%: 20-25%
TDEE-20%: 1700ish
Current Weight: 180lbs
Goal Weight: 160lbs
Macros: 45:30:25 Carbs:Protein:Fat
Size: UK 12-16 depending on which shop I'm in
Goal size: Just a UK 12 would be nice!

After much reading, and re-reading, my goals are to decrease my body fat and measurements rather than just weight. I'd like to tighten up and change my shape (particularly my back, bum, legs and stomach) so I know some lifting will be involved. I've upped my calories to around 1700 so I am fully expecting my weight to sneak up on weigh day (Tuesday) until hopefully it levels out.

I play netball twice a week (one 45 minute match, one 45 minute training session) and am usually at the gym 2 or 3 times a week doing between 48-72 minute cardio, depending on what day it is (48 minutes if it's before uni, 72 minutes if it's on my day off) and some weights (it was more sporadic, based on the time I had and how many men were hogging the equipment). Lately I have added deadlifts, bicep/tricep work, lat pulldowns, barbell squats, weighted travelling lunges, barbell swings and other compound moves. My quads are pretty good, progressed my leg press from 100lbs-310lbs (12 reps each) but I'm nowhere near that as a weighted squat just yet. There is so much conflicting evidence/advice on these forums and now I am at a loss as to what to do next! I know I kind of have to try it out and see but I'd like a pointer in the right direction

I just have a few questions:

1) Ideally I'd like to lose weight/body fat, gain/maintain LBM and shape up. Is it possible to do this with a calorie intake of 1700 and doing cardio?

2) I've just spotted this workout on Bodybuilding.com http://www.bodybuilding.com/guides/female-20to39-fat-loss/training. All the exercises look like I could do them. Would following this programme help me reach my goals (I realise not many of you are psychics but you know what I mean, hopefully).

3) How heavy do I have to lift in order to justify eating 1700 calories per day? I don't want to lift Mickey Mouse weights and waste time, or put on LOTS of weight.

4) I run 5km/10km/half marathons and the odd marathon (well, only London Marathon last year but I'd like to do another one soon) so need to keep the cardio element of exercise just to be able to run and play netball. Cardio seems to be a dirty word when people talk about dropping fat and lifting weights. Is there a way to combine the two? Would the above programme give me enough cardio work to be able to run around?

I think these are all the questions. I know when it all boils down, calories in<calories out but there seems to be more to it than that sometimes! All advice would be useful and appreciated And sorry if this exact same topic has been posted elsewhere, I had been trawling through to see if anyone had posted similar but it was taking a while

froeschli

I know a guy who is training for a marathon and complaining of getting too lean - wish i had that problem.

You should be able to lose weight doing cardio and eating 1700 calories (net) each day. However, it depends on how accurately you measure your calories. a couple spoons of peanut butter can turn that deficit into maintenance calories or more....

as for maintaining lean body mass - i am totally no expert, but as i understand it, cardio has its limits on preserving muscle mass. Lifting/strength training will help you more in that respect.

I am 31, 5'7", 166lbs. Taking up running has helped me drop 5lbs, but it appears not to have changed my BF% much. I am now doing NROL4W on alternate days with my running, eating 2000 calories a day, more with exercise.
I only started doing this last week, and now i am benched with bronchitis, so i wont know if this approach has merit or not for another few weeks.

Don't look at anything as an either/or approach, just decide on something you can stick with, then see if it works out. You should be able to do strength and cardio both, just make sure you get enough rest.

katy_trail

ok well, you haven't gotten many responses yet so i'll start with the lifting program you're referring to.
first, have you been lifting already? on machines? free weights, or what program did you do before?
how long?
how much time do you have to workout?

i'm guessing you'll be doing these in a gym, does the gym have a squat rack? (not all of them do)

i'm familar with distance running, but not specifically marathon training, would you categorize your runs as moderate or light?
when you're lifting heavy, they really suggest to limit intense cardio to 2 days a week. but i realize some of your runs are steady state, working on your pace, just depends on the person.

katy_trail

3) How heavy do I have to lift in order to justify eating 1700 calories per day? I don't want to lift Mickey Mouse weights and waste time, or put on LOTS of weight.

First, you don't have to worry about gaining actual weight if you are in a deficit. the weight gained in the first few weeks is mostly,
probably 99% water in your muscles while they repair, which is what you want to happen. They must rebuild to get stronger.

Second, the amount of calories you eat and the weights are completely individual.
if the weight is challenging enough for you that you can only do 8-10 reps with great form,
then that's what you should lift.

the calories you eat has much more to do with your overall activity level, age, height, weight, than to do with lifting.
possibly you'll want a few hundred calories per day more than before or on lifting days. or not.
I haven't experienced this yet, but it's common to want more calories after a heavy lifting session.

katy_trail

I think these are all the questions. I know when it all boils down, calories in<calories out but there seems to be more to it than that sometimes! All advice would be useful and appreciated And sorry if this exact same topic has been posted elsewhere, I had been trawling through to see if anyone had posted similar but it was taking a while

I know what you mean. the questions about TDEE are pretty common, but combining long distance running is less common, but probably out there somewhere.

Cockney365

Thanks for your reply. I'm not currently training for any runs at the moment, but I would like to in the future so when I go to the gym I do the treadmill at an incline, vary the speeds, do HIIT, just because I don't want to have to start again from scratch when I do next enter a race. My body does not have a problem getting too lean, even when I was training for the marathon I don't think I lost any weight or inches or anything! But I finished it (just) and raised loads of money for charity, and that's all that mattered at that point.

In terms of calories in, I track everything (I don't like peanut butter), I weigh everything, I make all my meals for uni in advance, already eat a lot of protein (chicken, tuna, Quorn - a high protein, low fat meat substitute for vegetarians, although I am not vegetarian) with some good carbs like bulgar wheat, wholemeal pasta, brown rice, plenty of fruit and vegetables and water, so diet wise I am now struggling to hit 1700 calories, as I am so used to aiming for around 1200-1400. I know it's not impossible, I got where I was by eating more than that on a good day but it's a big change.

I'm going to give this lifting programme a go and see if I can combine the weights at the gym with my own cardio, rather than their suggested treadmill work on cardio days (I can't think of anything worse than making the effort to go to the gym just to do 40 minutes on the treadmill - seems like I should be doing more while I am there!)

Thanks for your help and I hope you get over your bronchitis soon!

Cockney365

Thanks for your reply. To start with, I was doing 5km on the treadmill and then machine weights for arms and legs, starting somewhere and doing 12-16 reps on each weight and then increasing the weights once I'd done that set, until I got to a point where I couldn't do anymore. Eg leg press, would start at 100lbs, do 16 easily, add on the next plate til I got to a point where I was struggling to do 10 reps. That point is now 310lbs. My arms are pretty weak so they are on much lower weights but I couldn't tell you what as I only did them sporadically.

Due to time constraints, I now do 2x12 minute treadmill, 2x12 minutes step machine if I go to the gym before uni (I get a lift back from the gym so I can't always stay as long as I'd like to). On these days I haven't done weights as I have about 50 minutes in the gym before I need to shower and get back home, have breakfast and then get to lectures. On Friday when I don't need a lift back, or Sunday when my friend doesn't come with me and I have all the time in the world, I do the same cardio but mixed in with weights. So, maybe 12mins treadmill, 12 mins step, straight onto 3/4 different weights, another 12 tread, 12 step, 3/4 different weights, and if I feel like I can do it, final 12 tread, 12 step and finish off with weights. I know I should vary the cardio anyway but I picked these two because I need to run and the step is good for my bum

I've only written in specific lifting routines as such in the last week or two, mainly free weights:
* bent over barbell rows
*squats with barbell
*deadlifts
*tricep kickbacks
*weighted travelling lunges
*barbell swing
*reverse fly
*chest press (machine)
*lateral shoulders
*lat pulldown (machine)
*seated cable row
*squats with shoulder press
*hamstring curls (machine)
*seated tricep dips (machine)

and probably a few others I can't think of right now. I generally did 2x12 of these exercises, at the same weight, and then moved quickly into another lift or back to some cardio. I didn't do all of these every day as depending on what day I looked on here or at bodybuilding.com, a new exercise would pop up and I'd add that to the list of things to do! I am trying to get a more organised approach, which is why the programme from bb.com looks like it covers all areas and I could stick to it. I've been doing free squats but it does have a squat rack, it's just being able to use it (so many men just congregate around benches and the rack! Either do the exercise or go away! It's not an art gallery!)

At the moment I am not training for a specific run but I want to keep up the running just so when I enter a race I don't have to start from scratch. I've never really been a fan or built for running so I lose the ability and fitness pretty quickly once I stop! So at the moment it's literally just on the treadmill and I guess netball is sort of interval training. I don't know if you'd class it as HIIT as it depends on what position I am playing in, but it is a very stop/start game, running around and throwing in the odd jump! On a daily basis, I sit in lectures from 10-3:30ish, walk to the bus stop, get the bus home and then I have coursework to do so don't really do anything unless I have kettlebell class, netball match or training. At the moment my week looks like this:

Monday: Netball match (not every week) 48 minutes
Tuesday: Gym before uni (48 minutes), kettlebell class (45 minutes)
Wednesday: Netball training (every week) (should be an hour but is only ever 40 minutes)
Thursday: Nothing (rest day)
Friday: Gym AM (either 48 or loads more minutes), home to chill
Saturday: Work 10-5 (rest day)
Sunday: Gym AM (generally a much longer session, 72 minutes cardio plus whatever weights)

So it's pretty varied. This is subject to change, so if I have a party to go to on Saturday night I will drop the Sunday session and do it on a Monday morning instead, as long as I don't have a netball match on Monday evening.