Debate on "Trigger Foods"

Ramberta

So it's no secret to anyone on my Friends List that I like to eat, and I like to eat crappy. I am working to fix that, but despite being able to lose 60 pounds since my highest weight, I struggle constantly with the desire to binge-eat. Especially with chocolate, but it can be just about anything if I have a taste for it, even pasta or fresh fruit. Nothing is truly "healthy" when you have more than three servings of it in a sitting.

I watch the "clean eater vs IIFYM" debates and scratch my head, wondering where exactly I will fall on this spectrum once I reach my "goal diet"-- meaning an eating plan that has become comfortable, effortless, and routine for me, that also satisfies all my nutritional goals.

Because the thing is, it's easier for me to ignore the foods I know I'm likely to binge on-- ice cream, chips, cookies, rice, etc-- than to have a single serving. If I get even a taste of something salty or sweet, it's almost Pavlovian-- I WILL want more, and if I make bad choices early in the day I am ten times more likely to overdose on sugar and carbs and shortchange myself on protein and healthy fats.

But if I cut out certain "trigger" foods from my weekly diet and either reserve them for once in a blue moon treats or never again, why is that considered by some to be "orthorexic"? Why is cutting out just a small percentage of literally billions of choices of edibles we have to us as human beings something that is frowned upon?

Personally, I feel like we are limited already by what mainstream grocery stores and restaurants have to offer in terms of "normal" food, aka food we've grown up on. Why is rejecting that limited scope in favor of a broader one that includes healthier (but still satisfying) options INSTEAD of keeping all our old comfort foods such an appalling idea to some people?

To use a metaphor in closing, imagine that your diet growing up is the color Royal Blue on a color wheel. Your knowledge of nutrition is Golden Yellow. Combining them together, you get Forest Green, being your healthy / mindful / whatever you want to call it diet. The Blue color is based on what your parents exposed you to and what is immediately available to you in your community, plus what is advertised to you. But if you change that color to Sky Blue instead, using a different template for creating meals than what you're used to (not portions or ratios, but the actual foods that you're working with), suddenly combining with the Golden Yellow makes Lime Green instead. And if that new diet pleases you, then what is wrong with it other than the fact that it is different than what you're used to?

theCarlton

I watch the "clean eater vs IIFYM" debates and scratch my head, wondering where exactly I will fall on this spectrum once I reach my "goal diet"-- meaning an eating plan that has become comfortable, effortless, and routine for me, that also satisfies all my nutritional goals.

You'll find your way somewhere in the middle. I started out by eliminating known triggers and it worked well. When I returned after about 4 months, it no longer triggered those responses until I started recreating those scenarios again. And it's not hard to do that. I started dating someone and we went out to eat all the time. A few times eating some decadent fried thing with a soda followed by dessert was all it took. Or at university with snack machine options of chips, peanuts, candy, and soda. Just take note of your scenarios so in the future, you'll prepare yourself for them.

anniebrox

You have to do what works for YOU. Cutting out your "trigger" foods, as you call them, if they are unhealthy eliminating them won't harm anything.

almc170

In the same way that I don't eat foods that make me physically sick (avocado, banana, kiwi,eggs) or that I find utterly distasteful (meat), I don't see anything wrong with eliminating foods that make it psychologically difficult for you to stick with your plan. It really is about making choices that are best for you and your lifestyle.

jamk1446

Because the thing is, it's easier for me to ignore the foods I know I'm likely to binge on-- ice cream, chips, cookies, rice, etc-- than to have a single serving. If I get even a taste of something salty or sweet, it's almost Pavlovian-- I WILL want more, and if I make bad choices early in the day I am ten times more likely to overdose on sugar and carbs and shortchange myself on protein and healthy fats.

But if I cut out certain "trigger" foods from my weekly diet and either reserve them for once in a blue moon treats or never again, why is that considered by some to be "orthorexic"? Why is cutting out just a small percentage of literally billions of choices of edibles we have to us as human beings something that is frowned upon?

That's a smart strategy for you to take then. It's not orthorexic to eliminate trigger foods but some people only see you've eliminated certain foods and maybe don't understand the motivation behind it. Or they personally don't have problems with food triggers and eliminating foods makes absolutely no sense in their case. There's a lot of food choices out there, they should pick theirs, you pick yours. But everyone wants to examine their neighbor's plate.

As for your final maintenance diet...you might with time gain control over those triggers that set you back now. Some of them you may not, maybe some things you'll find it's better to just leave alone. Either of those are okay if they leave you feeling healthy, in control and satisfied.

aelfrice

I love food. I love eating so much that I shy away from choices that, in order to meet my calorie goals, subsequently restrict the amount of food and the degree of satiety feel. As such, sugar is playing a very small role in my diet. Daily salads of raw vegetables, lean protein, and additions of small amounts of cheeses and dried fruits allow me to eat until I'm stuffed. When, because of poor planning, I don't leave room for a meal that will fill me up, I tread right over my calorie limits and still eat to be full. Thus, I can have it all. I can eat as much as I want as long as I don't fool myself into thinking that I deserve to eat sugary crap. Surely, if I continue with that line of errant thought, I'll get what I deserve. I'm my own worst enemy, after all.

Ramberta

I love food. I love eating so much that I shy away from choices that, in order to meet my calorie goals, subsequently restrict the amount of food and the degree of satiety feel. As such, sugar is playing a very small role in my diet. Daily salads of raw vegetables, lean protein, and additions of small amounts of cheeses and dried fruits allow me to eat until I'm stuffed. When, because of poor planning, I don't leave room for a meal that will fill me up, I tread right over my calorie limits and still eat to be full. Thus, I can have it all. I can eat as much as I want as long as I don't fool myself into thinking that I deserve to eat sugary crap. Surely, if I continue with that line of errant thought, I'll get what I deserve. I'm my own worst enemy, after all.

I need to creep your diary more, then! Because this is what I want, eventually, for myself. I want to be able to feel like I can eat "a lot" and "stuff" myself and satisfy that craving to binge, but to be truly satiated by healthy foods instead of calorie-dense junk that will just make me feel crappy for hours afterward.

Ramberta

Thanks for the responses everyone, you all have offered very good advice and thoughts. I was kind of hoping that some of the more vocal IIFYMers might chime in and start a debate about how it's bad to cut foods out, oh well

jamk1446

Thanks for the responses everyone, you all have offered very good advice and thoughts. I was kind of hoping that some of the more vocal IIFYMers might chime in and start a debate about how it's bad to cut foods out, oh well

Well but that's the thing. You aren't arbitrarily cutting those foods out, you have good reason for it. The sensible people who truly understand IIFYM wouldn't come in here to tell you otherwise.

aelfrice

I want to be able to feel like I can eat "a lot" and "stuff" myself and satisfy that craving to binge, but to be truly satiated by healthy foods instead of calorie-dense junk that will just make me feel crappy for hours afterward.

I'm not a foodie by any means, but I do love to cook. Along the way I've picked up some cooking techniques that make it easier to turn bland meats and veggies into delicious indulgences.

I mentioned earlier that I make a salad a night (or most nights, honestly). I do so by buying my greens and produce once a week and then cutting it up and putting it into tupperware-like containers in my fridge so I can have it ready. Then I make my own salad dressing of olive oil, balsamic or red wine vinegar, pepper, salt, and mustard powder. I can throw these together in a few minutes each night for a colorful, nutritionally dense salad. If I want to turn that into a meal with protein I can quickly cook some chicken--something nobody seems to do right. the trick with chicken breasts or tenderloins is to bring the meat to room temperature, pat dry with paper towels, and cook on very high heat. Chicken needs to be grilled like this in order to stay soft and moist on the inside while developing flavor on the outside. Just this one meal has saved me frustration over the past couple months of weight loss, because I'm able to eat a huge bowl (like half a square foot of food) of flavor for 500 calories.

It's a little presumptuous of me to offer direct advice. I'm still in my initial stages of getting healthy but I did have one of those ah-ha moments when I realized that I could still stuff myself and lose weight. Maybe it helps that I love love love raw broccoli.

Good luck.

JesterMFP

Thanks for the responses everyone, you all have offered very good advice and thoughts. I was kind of hoping that some of the more vocal IIFYMers might chime in and start a debate about how it's bad to cut foods out, oh well

I'm kind of an IIFYMer. I don't believe in cutting out foods or foods groups for unnecessary reasons, or because they aren't considered the "correct" foods to be eating while "on a diet". I think reducing or cutting out foods that you know trigger you to binge is very sensible. I don't think IIFYM or eating in moderation are incompatible with taking steps to avoid binges. Another example - some people need to have a cut-off time for eating. If they eat after 6 pm, they know they will lose control and snack all night, eating well over their calorie goal. For them - having a cut-off helps them meet their goals. That doesn't mean that meal timing matters for weight loss in general, but they have to do what works for them. Nothing wrong with that.

I think you just have to find out your own "goal diet" and the best way to do that is through experimentation. When I started on MFP, I kept eating pretty much everything I like. The one thing that caused me concern was Nutella - I knew having a jar of that in the cupboard could spell trouble, so I didn't buy any. I didn't have any for a couple of months, and then found that I was so settled with the calorie counting that it was ok to have it in the house, have a spoonful every now and then and leave it be. You might find that if you cut out some of your trigger foods for a while, you can re-introduce them later. You might not, and that's ok too. Experiment!

caribougal

The reason you didn't get the debate you were after is because you didn't say you are following "X" diet. If you had said that you are eating Paleo, or Vegan, or Gluten Free, or Low Carb, or Keto or any of those "fad" diets, then you would have seen the "moderation is everything" crowd jumping in. Because.... because.... eliminating a chunk of food from your diet is BAD!!!

Your post could have been written by me. I am very aware of my trigger foods, and they happen to be all things that are eliminated by the Paleo diet. So that diet makes the most sense to me, and has served me really well. It doesn't mean I eliminate them 100% of the time, but probably 80-90% of the time. Why? Because by eliminating them I am able to stick to my calorie and macro goals better.

I think some people do great at moderating their intake. I am not one of them, which is why I seem to thrive on Paleo.

It's more of a mental thing... if I only have a moderate serving of a trigger food, I feel much more like I'm denying myself than if I avoid it all together. If I have some, I want more. If I have none, I have no problem.

You know you're not orthorexic. You know what works for you. If it works, and you feel good about it... there should be no debate.

sarahg148

I love food. I love eating so much that I shy away from choices that, in order to meet my calorie goals, subsequently restrict the amount of food and the degree of satiety feel. As such, sugar is playing a very small role in my diet. Daily salads of raw vegetables, lean protein, and additions of small amounts of cheeses and dried fruits allow me to eat until I'm stuffed. When, because of poor planning, I don't leave room for a meal that will fill me up, I tread right over my calorie limits and still eat to be full. Thus, I can have it all. I can eat as much as I want as long as I don't fool myself into thinking that I deserve to eat sugary crap. Surely, if I continue with that line of errant thought, I'll get what I deserve. I'm my own worst enemy, after all.

I need to creep your diary more, then! Because this is what I want, eventually, for myself. I want to be able to feel like I can eat "a lot" and "stuff" myself and satisfy that craving to binge, but to be truly satiated by healthy foods instead of calorie-dense junk that will just make me feel crappy for hours afterward.

Ditto that!!!

Ramberta

I want to be able to feel like I can eat "a lot" and "stuff" myself and satisfy that craving to binge, but to be truly satiated by healthy foods instead of calorie-dense junk that will just make me feel crappy for hours afterward.

I'm not a foodie by any means, but I do love to cook. Along the way I've picked up some cooking techniques that make it easier to turn bland meats and veggies into delicious indulgences.

I mentioned earlier that I make a salad a night (or most nights, honestly). I do so by buying my greens and produce once a week and then cutting it up and putting it into tupperware-like containers in my fridge so I can have it ready. Then I make my own salad dressing of olive oil, balsamic or red wine vinegar, pepper, salt, and mustard powder. I can throw these together in a few minutes each night for a colorful, nutritionally dense salad. If I want to turn that into a meal with protein I can quickly cook some chicken--something nobody seems to do right. the trick with chicken breasts or tenderloins is to bring the meat to room temperature, pat dry with paper towels, and cook on very high heat. Chicken needs to be grilled like this in order to stay soft and moist on the inside while developing flavor on the outside. Just this one meal has saved me frustration over the past couple months of weight loss, because I'm able to eat a huge bowl (like half a square foot of food) of flavor for 500 calories.

It's a little presumptuous of me to offer direct advice. I'm still in my initial stages of getting healthy but I did have one of those ah-ha moments when I realized that I could still stuff myself and lose weight. Maybe it helps that I love love love raw broccoli.

Good luck.

Thanks for the tips, but I have found the ultimate lazy and still successful way to cook chicken-- boiling it on the stove. :laugh: I'm never going back! I could never get it moist in the oven or in a pan, so that was my "ah-ha" moment.

I also love raw broccoli, as well as many other produce items. I've never been one to slather on butter or sauce, so that part isn't too difficult for me. I've never tried mustard powder for salad dressing though, that sounds interesting! I think if I can spot some at the grocery store I'll try that instead of buying bottled dressing. Ranch is terrible for me anyway, low-fat or not :laugh:

Ramberta

The reason you didn't get the debate you were after is because you didn't say you are following "X" diet. If you had said that you are eating Paleo, or Vegan, or Gluten Free, or Low Carb, or Keto or any of those "fad" diets, then you would have seen the "moderation is everything" crowd jumping in. Because.... because.... eliminating a chunk of food from your diet is BAD!!!

Your post could have been written by me. I am very aware of my trigger foods, and they happen to be all things that are eliminated by the Paleo diet. So that diet makes the most sense to me, and has served me really well. It doesn't mean I eliminate them 100% of the time, but probably 80-90% of the time. Why? Because by eliminating them I am able to stick to my calorie and macro goals better.

I think some people do great at moderating their intake. I am not one of them, which is why I seem to thrive on Paleo.

It's more of a mental thing... if I only have a moderate serving of a trigger food, I feel much more like I'm denying myself than if I avoid it all together. If I have some, I want more. If I have none, I have no problem.

You know you're not orthorexic. You know what works for you. If it works, and you feel good about it... there should be no debate.

You know, I never even for a second considered going on a so-called 'fad diet' like Paleo seems to be labeled as... but your post makes me at least want to look into it a little bit more and see what exactly it entails. I talked to an old college friend recently who's dropped 50 pounds on a gluten-free diet and she's loving it. I think that it's possible-- though not for everybody-- to follow somewhat "stricter" of a diet than simply "everything in moderation", and that it may in fact be healthier for certain individuals to do so, if they can't handle things in moderation after all.

caribougal

The reason you didn't get the debate you were after is because you didn't say you are following "X" diet. If you had said that you are eating Paleo, or Vegan, or Gluten Free, or Low Carb, or Keto or any of those "fad" diets, then you would have seen the "moderation is everything" crowd jumping in. Because.... because.... eliminating a chunk of food from your diet is BAD!!!

Your post could have been written by me. I am very aware of my trigger foods, and they happen to be all things that are eliminated by the Paleo diet. So that diet makes the most sense to me, and has served me really well. It doesn't mean I eliminate them 100% of the time, but probably 80-90% of the time. Why? Because by eliminating them I am able to stick to my calorie and macro goals better.

I think some people do great at moderating their intake. I am not one of them, which is why I seem to thrive on Paleo.

It's more of a mental thing... if I only have a moderate serving of a trigger food, I feel much more like I'm denying myself than if I avoid it all together. If I have some, I want more. If I have none, I have no problem.

You know you're not orthorexic. You know what works for you. If it works, and you feel good about it... there should be no debate.

You know, I never even for a second considered going on a so-called 'fad diet' like Paleo seems to be labeled as... but your post makes me at least want to look into it a little bit more and see what exactly it entails. I talked to an old college friend recently who's dropped 50 pounds on a gluten-free diet and she's loving it. I think that it's possible-- though not for everybody-- to follow somewhat "stricter" of a diet than simply "everything in moderation", and that it may in fact be healthier for certain individuals to do so, if they can't handle things in moderation after all.

Paleo certainly isn't for everyone. I decided to try it because it just made a lot of sense to me. Paleo eliminates all grains, not just gluten-free. That was ok for me, because that meant I was eliminating lot of my triggers. It also made sense to me because I already knew that I do well on a lower-carb diet and can sustain it better than any other way of eating. By eliminating the bread/pasta/rice from my meals, I can replace the space they take up with vegetables. And, I eat way less calories, because I rarely take 2nds of the veggies or protein, where I always used to take more of the carb-heavy stuff. It eliminated overeating for me that was just due to habit.

I also like that Paleo minimizes consumption of added sugars. I immediately noticed that my craving for sweet stuff ended once I cut it way down. I used to want something sweet after every meal. Now I don't. I can now enjoy sweet treats when it's special and worth it, or just because, but I know they're not driving my cravings. I'm in control now when before I wasn't.

I also don't get shaky between meals and can go longer between meals without obsessing about eating. That's more related to lower carb than Paleo, but for me they're one and the same.

The other main reason I decided to choose Paleo as my path to health is that it fits into my overall food philosophy. I try to be a locavore, and shop consciously for local produce and meats. Of course I do eat factory-farm foods when I'm at a restaurant or something, but I do try to carefully source what I eat at home. I'm fortunate that I have easy access to great local farms.

It's not easy to eat Paleo. It absolutely requires more home cooking, which means preparation and time. I've learned to plan more. I have to think ahead about what I'm going to defrost, marinate, etc. It's been a serious change from what I used to do. But I've also become a pretty damned good cook, and have eaten better over the past 10 months than I ever ate before.

I guess my moderation comes in around how strict to stay Paleo. In the beginning, I was very strict. As time went by, I learned more about when and how I wanted to flex. I have made the decision to keep dairy in my diet because I love cream and cheese and an occasional ice cream (even though I am lactose intolerant). I eat Chinese food (and leftovers) almost once a week. I eat dark chocolate daily. I often eat whatever I want at a great restaurant. But I don't worry about it because I know it's a treat rather than the norm.

Good luck as you figure out what works best for you.