SQUATS?? I need your advice?
Replies
-
Squats are the single best strength-training exercise you can do. They strengthen your core, strengthen your glutes, hamstrings and quads and women who squat look MUCH better (a generalization to be sure, and also from this guy's perspective) than women who don't.Squats? Are they effective for toning my things? Or is it a waste of time/exercise? Your thoughts please?
Thank you,
Roe
Do not worry that squats or any other compound exercise will make you bulky - it won't.
... and don't just squat ... all the main compound exercises are excellent for women:
Squat, Bent-over row, deadlift, overhead press, bench press, etc.
This definitely - both my trainer and pilates instructor say squats are the business!
Sue0 -
it makes no sense. look at the pic of proper squat for above you. notice the position of their backs... none are anywhere near verticle..
In the picture with the front squat, the torso is completely straight and vertical. It's the same with a body weight squat.
I already said for a back squat you need to lean over to keep the weight over your heels, but even in that case the torso should be completely stable and not move independently from the legs.
You move down with your butt, not with your torso.0 -
Split squats help tone up the inner thighs.0
-
this is false. knees not going over toes is pure myth. for proof look at every person ever who squats for comp. knees always go past toes.
[/quote]
It's not a myth. It's squatting 101. Knees are NEVER suppose to go pass toes. Plain and simple. If see someone doing that, they are doing it wrong!!0 -
Great info0
-
Go to Youtube and check out some of Mark Rippetoe's videos. He has some great ones for getting you started on the right track. Squats are one of the best exercises you can do for yourself.0
-
From what I've researched, unless you already have knee problems, this is pretty much true.BUMP!
this is false. knees not going over toes is pure myth. for proof look at every person ever who squats for comp. knees always go past toes.
Where your knee ends up in relation to your toe depends on your squat: Front Squats will have the knee past the toe. Olympic squats (often called high-bar squat) will have the knee over the toe. Low-bar squats usually are the closest knee-toe position.
0 -
I finally had to quit doing squats and lunges a few weeks ago because of my old creaky knees. My thighs and butt are getting rock hard and I'm not sure what it is from as I don't do much in the way of exercises for my legs. Unless it is from the incline on the treadmill.0
-
Just my 2 cents. If you have any knee problems don't do these unless you are perfect at them. They can really mess up your knees!
Especially if you add weight to them. Lunges are worse! My orthepedist said you should never do them! Kills the knees. I am 61 and have bad knees, the Squat against the wall is a safe one as long as you are careful!0 -
I think if you want to be able to pick up a kleenex off the floor when you are in your 60's you should include squats, deadlifts, lunges etc into your routine. You can always get the advice of a good trainer to help you with your form. Heck, most aerobic class instructors will show you how in about 5 mins. There are some great online videos to help also. You should always start light with maybe a small bar and work yourself up in weight. Squats are a functional move. When you sit on your couch you are performing a squat. Watch a small child squat. It is functional. Adults lose this ability from sitting behind desks and driving cars all day. You need to strengthen these muscles now so you don't end up with bad knees.0
-
Thanks to squats (and lunges), particularly weighted ones, I now have stronger legs, no knee issues when I run, and my bum has never looked this good :bigsmile:
Truth. I am in love with squats now.0 -
From what I've researched, unless you already have knee problems, this is pretty much true.BUMP!
this is false. knees not going over toes is pure myth. for proof look at every person ever who squats for comp. knees always go past toes.
Where your knee ends up in relation to your toe depends on your squat: Front Squats will have the knee past the toe. Olympic squats (often called high-bar squat) will have the knee over the toe. Low-bar squats usually are the closest knee-toe position.
http://www.acsm.org/docs/current-comments/safetysquat.pdf0 -
Probably time for you to then re up your certification. To your defense, as a "general rule" in a GROUP setting (because of so many individuals), the knee not going past toes is emphasized to reduce injury to participants. However, there are peer reviewed studies showing that the knee going past the toes is a MUCH SAFER alternative then putting the load on the back.It's not a myth. It's squatting 101. Knees are NEVER suppose to go pass toes. Plain and simple. If see someone doing that, they are doing it wrong!!
https://www.acefitness.org/acefit/expert-insight-article/3/562/is-it-ever-okay-for-your-knees-to-extend/
http://blog.nasm.org/training-benefits/the-geek-squat/
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
As mentioned in the documentation, it states "in general". It DOESN'T say that knee going beyond toes is disallowed.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Also look at children naturally squat. Butts to the ground. Definitely knees traveling.0
-
Check other natural movements too. When climbing the stairs (unless one is purposely trying not to do it) the knee invariably goes past the toes.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
I want to see this miracle of biomechanics where someone can drop their hips back, keep an upright torso, and not fall over backwards. Are you sure you know what you're talking about?it makes no sense. look at the pic of proper squat for above you. notice the position of their backs... none are anywhere near verticle..
In the picture with the front squat, the torso is completely straight and vertical. It's the same with a body weight squat.
I already said for a back squat you need to lean over to keep the weight over your heels, but even in that case the torso should be completely stable and not move independently from the legs.
You move down with your butt, not with your torso.
Lets put this to the test, I'll find some bodyweight squat tutorials and see how upright the torsos are. lets see here...
Bent Torso:
http://youtu.be/p3g4wAsu0R4
Bent Torso:
http://youtu.be/R1v152b72lo
Bent Torso:
http://youtu.be/zqj1qjIA6E0
Bent Torso:
http://youtu.be/lDrXqXRPVTg
Bent Torso:
http://youtu.be/-AeGXjAW02A
P.S.. There is still bent torso for front squat.0 -
Out of curiosity, how do you explain why EVERY SINGLE PRO EVER who competes in powerlifting or Olympic lifting has their knees go past their toes. In the case of Oly lifting sometimes WAY past their toes. And they are lifting obscene amounts of weight. If there was knee danger wouldn't this cause problems???
From what I've researched, unless you already have knee problems, this is pretty much true.BUMP!
this is false. knees not going over toes is pure myth. for proof look at every person ever who squats for comp. knees always go past toes.
Where your knee ends up in relation to your toe depends on your squat: Front Squats will have the knee past the toe. Olympic squats (often called high-bar squat) will have the knee over the toe. Low-bar squats usually are the closest knee-toe position.
http://www.acsm.org/docs/current-comments/safetysquat.pdf0 -
When I started squats I hated every second of it. Now after some practice, squats are one of my favorite things to do. They have changed the appearance of my legs\butt considerably and have added so much muscle strength. I am so glad I stayed with them !0
-
I want to see this miracle of biomechanics where someone can drop their hips back, keep an upright torso, and not fall over backwards. Are you sure you know what you're talking about?it makes no sense. look at the pic of proper squat for above you. notice the position of their backs... none are anywhere near verticle..
In the picture with the front squat, the torso is completely straight and vertical. It's the same with a body weight squat.
I already said for a back squat you need to lean over to keep the weight over your heels, but even in that case the torso should be completely stable and not move independently from the legs.
You move down with your butt, not with your torso.
Lets put this to the test, I'll find some bodyweight squat tutorials and see how upright the torsos are. lets see here...
Bent Torso:http://youtu.be/p3g4wAsu0R4
Bent Torso:http://youtu.be/R1v152b72lo
Bent Torso:http://youtu.be/zqj1qjIA6E0
Bent Torso:http://youtu.be/lDrXqXRPVTg
Bent Torso:http://youtu.be/-AeGXjAW02A
P.S.. There is still bent torso for front squat.
Yeah. All of those people keep their torsos vertical. The second guy did a really good job demonstrating what happens when you don't.
Chest out, shoulders back. Head travels in straight line down, no movement front to back or side to side.
You keep your torso stable by maintaining the lumbar curve and engaging your core. You do bend at the hips, but not in your upper body.
Maybe you're just having an issue with my terminology? I'm only communicating in the way I was taught, I guess some people use different terms? It's entirely possible that I was taught incorrect terms, but the form I was taught is essentially the same as the above videos.0 -
Out of curiosity, how do you explain why EVERY SINGLE PRO EVER who competes in powerlifting or Olympic lifting has their knees go past their toes. In the case of Oly lifting sometimes WAY past their toes. And they are lifting obscene amounts of weight. If there was knee danger wouldn't this cause problems???
From what I've researched, unless you already have knee problems, this is pretty much true.BUMP!
this is false. knees not going over toes is pure myth. for proof look at every person ever who squats for comp. knees always go past toes.
Where your knee ends up in relation to your toe depends on your squat: Front Squats will have the knee past the toe. Olympic squats (often called high-bar squat) will have the knee over the toe. Low-bar squats usually are the closest knee-toe position.
http://www.acsm.org/docs/current-comments/safetysquat.pdf
Wider stance allows you to squat without your knees going out past your toes. Olympic squats with a narrow stance, yes. Powerlifting wide stance squat, not so much. Will your shins stay vertical? No, but your knees can easily stay behind your toes with a wide stance.0 -
I recant my statement when I used the word "never", as absolutes in research (much less life in general) are rare. When I talk of squats I am not referring to Olympic style squatting techniques. Of course if you are lifting heavy, that places an undue amount of compressive force on the hips, lower back and the knees, which may require knee flexion beyond 90 degrees (excellent point on knee injury vs. low back injury trade off). However, I was speaking of a simple squat without weights or with light free weights. In that instant, I would not recommend for the knees to go pass the toes to reduce the likelihood of knee injury, and because there isn't a substantial amount of weight that the hips and lower back have to bear.
The ACSM article is speaking generally, and I posted the article because I was speaking in general terms, mainly as a reference for beginners.0 -
As a trainer I would agree with this.I recant my statement when I used the word "never", as absolutes in research (much less life in general) are rare. When I talk of squats I am not referring to Olympic style squatting techniques. Of course if you are lifting heavy, that places an undue amount of compressive force on the hips, lower back and the knees, which may require knee flexion beyond 90 degrees (excellent point on knee injury vs. low back injury trade off). However, I was speaking of a simple squat without weights or with light free weights. In that instant, I would not recommend for the knees to go pass the toes to reduce the likelihood of knee injury, and because there isn't a substantial amount of weight that the hips and lower back have to bear.
The ACSM article is speaking generally, and I posted the article because I was speaking in general terms, mainly as a reference for beginners.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Out of curiosity, how do you explain why EVERY SINGLE PRO EVER who competes in powerlifting or Olympic lifting has their knees go past their toes. In the case of Oly lifting sometimes WAY past their toes. And they are lifting obscene amounts of weight. If there was knee danger wouldn't this cause problems???
From what I've researched, unless you already have knee problems, this is pretty much true.BUMP!
this is false. knees not going over toes is pure myth. for proof look at every person ever who squats for comp. knees always go past toes.
Where your knee ends up in relation to your toe depends on your squat: Front Squats will have the knee past the toe. Olympic squats (often called high-bar squat) will have the knee over the toe. Low-bar squats usually are the closest knee-toe position.
http://www.acsm.org/docs/current-comments/safetysquat.pdf
Again, I recant using the word "never". Of course there is going to be knee danger when you are lifting an "obscene amounts of weight". Deep loaded knee flexion is required to do this type of lifting, and over time knee injury may occur.
http://saalnajjar.kau.edu.sa/Files/141/Researches/57285_28119.pdf0 -
Vertical would mean perpendicular to the ground... You know, how it looks when you're standing...Yeah. All of those people keep their torsos vertical. The second guy did a really good job demonstrating what happens when you don't.
Chest out, shoulders back. Head travels in straight line down, no movement front to back or side to side.
You keep your torso stable by maintaining the lumbar curve and engaging your core. You do bend at the hips, but not in your upper body.
Maybe you're just having an issue with my terminology? I'm only communicating in the way I was taught, I guess some people use different terms? It's entirely possible that I was taught incorrect terms, but the form I was taught is essentially the same as the above videos.0 -
I would agree with this. But I would also point out that the form for without weight is pretty much the same as with weight. If your knees are fine going past your toes with hundreds of pounds on your back, then they are more than fine with just bodyweight too..I recant my statement when I used the word "never", as absolutes in research (much less life in general) are rare. When I talk of squats I am not referring to Olympic style squatting techniques. Of course if you are lifting heavy, that places an undue amount of compressive force on the hips, lower back and the knees, which may require knee flexion beyond 90 degrees (excellent point on knee injury vs. low back injury trade off). However, I was speaking of a simple squat without weights or with light free weights. In that instant, I would not recommend for the knees to go pass the toes to reduce the likelihood of knee injury, and because there isn't a substantial amount of weight that the hips and lower back have to bear.
The ACSM article is speaking generally, and I posted the article because I was speaking in general terms, mainly as a reference for beginners.
I also point to the example of walking up stairs. Try and do it without knees going past your toes.
It's a natural movement. You want to know where the no knees past the toes thing came from? It's from most total beginners being sooo afraid of falling over backwards, that instead of squatting, they kneel. And yes, that does fry your knees. So it's a basic catch all to try and get them to understand a basic squat concept without getting too indepth on proper form. So that why you see it in beginners guides. But for anyone in the know, and from anyone who actually teaches proper squat form for people who lift, we know better.
edit: basically where i'm going with this is worry about proper technique first and foremost. The diagram pictured is the ideal way to do form for a normal stance squat, which vast majority of people would do. And if by doing it that way your knees go past your toes, then so be it. Don't stress. If they don't go past, then so be it. You get the idea.0 -
Vertical would mean perpendicular to the ground... You know, how it looks when you're standing...Yeah. All of those people keep their torsos vertical. The second guy did a really good job demonstrating what happens when you don't.
Chest out, shoulders back. Head travels in straight line down, no movement front to back or side to side.
You keep your torso stable by maintaining the lumbar curve and engaging your core. You do bend at the hips, but not in your upper body.
Maybe you're just having an issue with my terminology? I'm only communicating in the way I was taught, I guess some people use different terms? It's entirely possible that I was taught incorrect terms, but the form I was taught is essentially the same as the above videos.
I know what vertical means! Are we looking at the same videos or what!?
Those peoples chests and shoulders are CLEARLY perpendicular to the ground!
Unless you're doing a low bar back squat, the load in the movement is your chest, shoulders, arms and head. How would it be possible to keep the weight on your heels if your chest wasn't centered over your heels/midfoot, and how you could you center that weight over your heels/midfoot if your chest was pointed at the floor?0 -
I....don't know what to say to you at this point. I think vert means something different than you think it means.I know what vertical means! Are we looking at the same videos or what!?
Those peoples chests and shoulders are CLEARLY perpendicular to the ground!
Unless you're doing a low bar back squat, the load in the movement is your chest, shoulders, arms and head. How would it be possible to keep the weight on your heels if your chest wasn't centered over your heels/midfoot, and how you could you center that weight over your heels/midfoot if your chest was pointed at the floor?0 -
I....don't know what to say to you at this point. I think vert means something different than you think it means.I know what vertical means! Are we looking at the same videos or what!?
Those peoples chests and shoulders are CLEARLY perpendicular to the ground!
Unless you're doing a low bar back squat, the load in the movement is your chest, shoulders, arms and head. How would it be possible to keep the weight on your heels if your chest wasn't centered over your heels/midfoot, and how you could you center that weight over your heels/midfoot if your chest was pointed at the floor?
o_o
Look at this line, it's vertical. |
If you take a person in good squat form, and draw a line from their head, through the load (chest, shoulders, upper back -the torso, right?) down to the heel/midfoot it will be a vertical line ( | ), not an angled line ( / ).
All of those people's chests are out, and their shoulders are back, head is looking forward. The same as upright, vertical, posture.
Sorry, man, I love my coaches. You're going to have to give me a better reason to say they're wrong than just, "Derp, I don't understand you so you must be wrong. You don't know what vertical means."0 -
The problem here is either miscommunication or misunderstanding.
I....don't know what to say to you at this point. I think vert means something different than you think it means.I know what vertical means! Are we looking at the same videos or what!?
Those peoples chests and shoulders are CLEARLY perpendicular to the ground!
Unless you're doing a low bar back squat, the load in the movement is your chest, shoulders, arms and head. How would it be possible to keep the weight on your heels if your chest wasn't centered over your heels/midfoot, and how you could you center that weight over your heels/midfoot if your chest was pointed at the floor?
o_o
Look at this line, it's vertical. |
If you take a person in good squat form, and draw a line from their head, through the load (chest, shoulders, upper back -the torso, right?) down to the heel/midfoot it will be a vertical line ( | ), not an angled line ( / ).
All of those people's chests are out, and their shoulders are back, head is looking forward. The same as upright, vertical, posture.
Sorry, man, I love my coaches. You're going to have to give me a better reason to say they're wrong than just, "Derp, I don't understand you so you must be wrong. You don't know what vertical means."
You clearly stated that "All of those people keep their torsos vertical. " when none of those people did.
So clearly you're either miscommunicating what you think 'vertical' means, or you are misunderstanding what a 'torso' is (the trunk of the body independent of head and limbs.)
A vertical torso would be a torso that is entirely straight up/down, perpendicular to the ground when standing. Even body-weight squats or front-bar-squats don't do that, the torso will not be perpendicular to the ground, the entire torso will lean forward around 10-15 degrees, sometimes more depending on individual anthropometry.
The instant one drops the hips back and starts the hip bend, the torso starts to lean and is no longer vertical.
Olympic/high-bar squats generally cause a vertical lean of about 35-40 degrees, and low-bar squats around 40-50 degrees, again depending on the person.
No squat - when at the lower position - has a 'vertical' torso. Those performing it properly will keep their torso straight, with a slight arch in the back, but the torso is most certainly not vertical.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 427 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions