Weight lifting

backpacker44

I recently met ex BC lion and personal trainer Tommy Europe. I have also met Jamie Eason... Jamie says to target 1 or 2 muscle groups per day of weight lifting, while Tommy says to do a full body weight session every time you lift throughout the week, while not doing the same exercises on each of the days.

For the last 2 weeks I have been following Jamie's suggestion of targeting one or two areas at a time, and pretty much every part of my body has been sore at different times during these weeks. Last night I hit my whole body, and even upped some of my weights, and today I am not even remotely sore. If I follow what Tommy said, am I just going to be wasting my time? I want to stress the muscle and break it down, let it rest and rebuild itself. During my workout last night I worked hard and lifted heavy, but I'm thinking that maybe I didn't stress each muscle group enough by only doing 2 or 3 movements per grouping (3 sets- 12 reps)

Thoughts?

slporter1

In my book go with Jamie Eason. Your muscles need rest and recovery to build. I would not work every muscle group every day. Depending on your goals etc. you could do upper and lower grouping or you could do back/bis one day, chest/tris one day, legs, etc. Just some ideas

Loftearmen

In my book go with Jamie Eason. Your muscles need rest and recovery to build. I would not work every muscle group every day. Depending on your goals etc. you could do upper and lower grouping or you could do back/bis one day, chest/tris one day, legs, etc. Just some ideas

This is only true for people who are advanced lifters and require a lot of time to recover. There are only 1 or 2 people on MFP who fall into this category. For everyone else, do a full body split 3 days a week. If you're not sure if you are included in those 1 or 2 people, ask yourself this question, "Can I squat twice my bodyweight?" If the answer is no, then you are not included.

backpacker44

In my book go with Jamie Eason. Your muscles need rest and recovery to build. I would not work every muscle group every day. Depending on your goals etc. you could do upper and lower grouping or you could do back/bis one day, chest/tris one day, legs, etc. Just some ideas

That's what I had been doing (I'm doing Jamie Eason's 12 week LiveFit trainer) so I had been grouping it like that.. But This guy confused me... He's a trainer too and he had other suggestions that were great.. Just wasn't sure what to do.

ktully93

I am on week 3 of Jamie's LiveFit program. I had taken a break from strength training for awhile and I have to say I've seen results already from doing it her way. Before, I did a whole body workout 2 times a week. Like you, I didn't feel like the individual muscle groups got challenged enough.

So, I think you have to go with what challenges you for now. Later you could change it up and do full body but with a lot heavier weights. Keep it interesting.

backpacker44

I am on week 3 of Jamie's LiveFit program. I had taken a break from strength training for awhile and I have to say I've seen results already from doing it her way. Before, I did a whole body workout 2 times a week. Like you, I didn't feel like the individual muscle groups got challenged enough.

So, I think you have to go with what challenges you for now. Later you could change it up and do full body but with a lot heavier weights. Keep it interesting.

Heyyy I'm technically on week 3 too. I think I'm going to go back to Jamie's way... I'll start day 1 today and forget what I did yesterday.

mdizzle99

This is only true for people who are advanced lifters and require a lot of time to recover. There are only 1 or 2 people on MFP who fall into this category. For everyone else, do a full body split 3 days a week. If you're not sure if you are included in those 1 or 2 people, ask yourself this question, "Can I squat twice my bodyweight?" If the answer is no, then you are not included.

I agree except the 1 or 2 people part. I would certainly say that for the majority of people, especially starting out, you're better off doing a full body routine.

backpacker44

Bahh...

Why do you guys feel that way?

I worked really hard last night- was dripping with sweat.. I lifted to failure for each of my sets. I want to feel the burn, but I don't want to be working out for hours to get there...

TheRealJigsaw

Why are you trying to fix what isnt broken? Keep doing what has been working for you.

backpacker44

Why are you trying to fix what isnt broken? Keep doing what has been working for you.

I wasn't really trying to fix what isn't broken. I got conflicting information from two amazing trainers, and wanted to make sure that I am maximizing my time in the gym.

bertburtison

Doing a split routine can have it's benefits but a full body routine 3 times a week can be very challenging to beginners not accustomed to higher intensity training. The bodybuilding split was developed originally by athletes who had a little 'help' along the way, recent studies have actually shown this to be of less benefit to natural lifters due to protein synthesis and recovery times. Saying that I started on a 5 day split and had great results, however I'm now on 4 full body workouts a week and am seeing even better results. The best answer I can give you is this, do what you're comfortable doing, learn the ropes, learn to push yourself out of your comfort zone, get confident and then try a different approach and see what works for you. If training via Jamie Easons way works and keeps you motivated then that's what counts, once you've gained the basics and you're upping weights and increasing reps and playing with your rest periods then try something new. The main thing is your moving heavy **** and not just doing endless cardio like every other women that doesn't know how to get in shape!

BusyRaeNOTBusty

This article is for mass gaining but I think the frequency applies for all lifting.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/training-frequency-for-mass-gains.html


Basically only advanced bodybuilders and lifters need / should hit only one muscle group each workout. Beginners are best served doing 3 full body workouts a week.

Soreness isn't an indicator of anything.

This is a good one too (but kind of rude, but still pretty true):
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/rippetoe_throws_down

GODfidence

Muscle soreness does NOT EQUAL more muscle growth
Or better results.
I would say a full body workout would be more beneficial.
And to stress muscles to the point of needing repair they have to be
Worked at a high level. That's why lifting heavier weights at lower reps will most likely
Produce better results than lower weights with more reps.
Diet is the most important factor though,unless
You're in a surplus,neither routine will give you gains.

cwolfman13

What are your weight lifting goals? It's not all the same and you're going to accomplish different things with different routines. For the most part, beginner's thrive doing full body workouts 3x weekly and doing them heavy (i.e. low reps, high weight) to build up a good base of strength. From there you can look at either going the body building route and doing body part splits or the power lifting route which will still emphasize the big, compound lifts with minimal accessory work.

IMHO, everyone is better off focusing on strength first and then moving on to whatever their passion is. If it's bodybuilding you're still going to benefit from having an awesome strength foundation.

kopmom

I think I get your thought process here.

You can do a isolated lifting program (like Live Fit) where you are lifting 5-6 days a week but not the same area's each workout

OR

You could do a compound lift program (Like Stronglifts 5x5) which is max 3 days a week (not in a row) that focuses on hitting more area's with the lifts your are doing

backpacker44

I just want to be fit and strong. My Bf is a gym nut and lifts crazy heavy (he could lift me at my heaviest soooo). My ultimate goal is weight loss, but I don't want to lose a bunch of weight and then build muscle. I know more muscle will help me burn those calories too. I have no desire to be a body builder, but I also want to do what I am doing correctly and build lean muscle.

I would actually love to be a personal trainer one day... For now though, I must focus on myself!

backpacker44

I think I get your thought process here.

You can do a isolated lifting program (like Live Fit) where you are lifting 5-6 days a week but not the same area's each workout

OR

You could do a compound lift program (Like Stronglifts 5x5) which is max 3 days a week (not in a row) that focuses on hitting more area's with the lifts your are doing

Yep, I'm trying to figure out which of those would be best for me.

MelStren

bump

brillmer

I think I get your thought process here.

You can do a isolated lifting program (like Live Fit) where you are lifting 5-6 days a week but not the same area's each workout

OR

You could do a compound lift program (Like Stronglifts 5x5) which is max 3 days a week (not in a row) that focuses on hitting more area's with the lifts your are doing

Yep, I'm trying to figure out which of those would be best for me.

I recently made this decision... and am currently doing strong lifts 5x5. I am on week 6 of 12.

From what I've learned, beginners should focus on the major compound lifts.. Some people say at least for a year.. To build a solid base of strength and muscle. That is what I have been doing (stronglifts) for the last 6 weeks after doing a 5-6 day split for a few months prior to that.

The logic behind it is as follows:
When you do the compound lifts (squats, bench press, deadlifts, overhead/military press or power cleans, barbell rows) you tend to be working multiple muscle groups at a time. This allows you, as stated earlier, to build a foundation of muscle and strength.

You can literally start with the bar, or minimum weights (thats what I did) and work on linear progression.. Which is basically adding 5 pounds per workout until you stall and can no longer increase the weights.

When it comes to isolation workouts, its more for focusing on specific muscle groups or areas.

Since I was new to lifting, I figured it would make the most logical sense to build a base or foundation first, and then focus on isolation in the future.. As opposed to doing the opposite (which I originally was doing)

Realistically though, it comes down to what you enjoy, what fits your schedule and what you could see yourself doing long term.

Hope this helps, and good luck!

ThorATK

Doing a split routine can have it's benefits but a full body routine 3 times a week can be very challenging to beginners not accustomed to higher intensity training. The bodybuilding split was developed originally by athletes who had a little 'help' along the way, recent studies have actually shown this to be of less benefit to natural lifters due to protein synthesis and recovery times. Saying that I started on a 5 day split and had great results, however I'm now on 4 full body workouts a week and am seeing even better results. The best answer I can give you is this, do what you're comfortable doing, learn the ropes, learn to push yourself out of your comfort zone, get confident and then try a different approach and see what works for you. If training via Jamie Easons way works and keeps you motivated then that's what counts, once you've gained the basics and you're upping weights and increasing reps and playing with your rest periods then try something new. The main thing is your moving heavy **** and not just doing endless cardio like every other women that doesn't know how to get in shape!

This and busylady are bang on target. Less DOMS doesn't mean less progress. Each body part once a week is the "bro" split ideal for people on the juicy juice. You'll still make progress on it (a beginner will make progress doing practically anything) but it won't be ideal

anthophora

For what it is worth, I have really seen a lot of progress focusing on the compound strength movements. I was a college athlete and trained extensively. However, almost 20 years after that I am as strong as I have ever been. I have been using the New Rules of lifting but am thinking about moving to 5x5 or focusing on stuff by Mark Rippetoe. The article posted earlier by Rippetoe is great.

When I started this, my legs (or whatever muscle groups I lifted that day) were jello the next day. That next-day soreness has gone but I have continued to increase in squats, bench and deadlift. (not at 2x my weight in squats but at 1.5 so I may get there yet).

Also, I just don't have the time to lift every day and want to maximize the time spent in the weight room. I love to run, play ultimate frisbee, mountain bike etc (not to mention a family and a demanding job). I realize that these may even conflict with strength training but I fully enjoy this stuff and have no desire to stop as strength training is only one goal.

Crankstr

I like the full body workout as well.
I have stopped getting as sore, but it sure doesnt mean I am not working my butt off.


http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/The_Starting_Strength_Novice/Beginner_Programs
http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-training-program/

DopeItUp

Any novice or intermediate lifter (or even higher) will generally do best on a full-body routine. Do it 3x a week with 1 day of rest between. That should last you for years. Doing a split routine while starting out seems like a waste of time.

Yanicka1

I have been lifting for 2 years and just started doing muscle group. Really do yourself a favour and do stronglifts 5 x 5..... You still have everything to build

Loftearmen

There is an unbelievable amount of ignorance getting thrown around in this thread.

backpacker44

There is an unbelievable amount of ignorance getting thrown around in this thread.

LOL... I need to read everything, there have been lots of replies since my commute home!

fruitloop2

Bumping this.

atrebor18

bump! i love this thread because its something i've been wondering about too. i started weightlifting and did jamie eason's livefit phase one and was happy with the results but then I switched to NROL4W because I thought compound lifts are better and didn't really like it mostly because i had a harder time accessing the equipment for it and now am back doing jamie eason's program. i'm wondering if full body is better than individual muscles so i'm excited to hear the opinions!

bdoug1234

Full body 3x per week is best for those starting.

Split routines etc. are more about recovery time.

Keep in mind experienced lifters that lift really hard can "over train" by putting a lot of stress on their system.

But if you look hard enough you will find research that says lifting hard and heavy full body 3x per week is 10-15 % more efficient for muscle gain.

backpacker44

Well, thanks for all of the information! I'm still unsure of what I am going to do. I enjoyed the time I spent in the gym working on one of two areas at a time because I really felt like I was actually working out that muscle group, but doing a full body workout seems like it might be better because then my legs, chest, arms, back etc are all getting worked on 3 times a week instead of just once. Before I started Jamie's program I was thinking it was odd to have 6 days of rest before working out that body part again. That's what my BF does, and he lifts a few hundred pounds for some of what he does, soooo maybe we shouldn't be doing the same things... That actually does make a lot of sense.

kdiamond

I switch it up honestly. Right now I'm doing a 4-day split, 1 day shoulders/abs, 1 day back/chest, and 2 days legs (different leg exercises and 3-4 days apart). But before that I was doing a 3-day ful body. It depends on your goals, the time you have, etc..

I see nothing wrong with doing it either way.