Bottom Line Muscle Growth

FrnkLft

I've asked a few questions lately and I'm trying to find a metric to use for progress. Some say size, the other is weight... I'm going with weight.

So just a simple answer to this: If I continuously up the weight that I am lifting whenever I feel like I can do more, will I see muscle growth over time?

For those who it matters, I do 6 reps x 3 sets per exercise and about 4 exercises per muscle group, once a week.

LJCannon

I am hoping the answer is Yes!

StaticEntropy

Yes.

bcattoes

Yes.

Wouldn't diet be a necessary factor. Increasing weight would increasing strength, but would it always mean muscle growth?

JenMc14

If your diet supports it, then yes, I think you would see muscle growth, even if training in the "traditionally" strength rep range. You *might* see more growth if you upped the reps to 8-10, to fall in line with the general "rep range for hypertrophy" conventional wisdom, but I'm not an expert, by any means. I think progression is progression, and if you're eating at a surplus and adding weight, the muscle will come.

FrnkLft

Yeah this is something else I'm working on actually, I'm supposedly eating +400 but in the past 7 weeks I've only gained 3 lbs.

Noticed this too when I was loosing weight, dropped faster than my calculations. I think my TDEE might be higher than I expected, weight training burning more than MFP calculates possibly.

FrnkLft

If your diet supports it, then yes, I think you would see muscle growth, even if training in the "traditionally" strength rep range. You *might* see more growth if you upped the reps to 8-10, to fall in line with the general "rep range for hypertrophy" conventional wisdom, but I'm not an expert, by any means. I think progression is progression, and if you're eating at a surplus and adding weight, the muscle will come.

Yeah see this would require that I drop the weight a bit lower... which seems counter productive and from what I've read it would produce hypertrophy due to more glucose being stored in the muscle (similar effect to pump w/ blood). This means that the size doesn't reflect any growth, just fuller muscle (think tire with more air).

StaticEntropy

Yes.

Wouldn't diet be a necessary factor. Increasing weight would increasing strength, but would it always mean muscle growth?

You are quite right. I guess I assumed this to be obvious when I shouldn't have.

If your diet supports it, then yes, I think you would see muscle growth, even if training in the "traditionally" strength rep range. You *might* see more growth if you upped the reps to 8-10, to fall in line with the general "rep range for hypertrophy" conventional wisdom, but I'm not an expert, by any means. I think progression is progression, and if you're eating at a surplus and adding weight, the muscle will come.

Yeah see this would require that I drop the weight a bit lower... which seems counter productive and from what I've read it would produce hypertrophy due to more glucose being stored in the muscle (similar effect to pump w/ blood). This means that the size doesn't reflect any growth, just fuller muscle (think tire with more air).

You can always do your main lifts in a lower rep range and your accesory lifts in a higher rep range.

GetSoda

I'm 3x stronger than when I started, and gained a total of 1lbs of lean mass in a year.

FrnkLft

You can always do your main lifts in a lower rep range and your accesory lifts in a higher rep range.

This is an interesting idea, but what is the net benefit over time? I mean, I really want size, but at the end of the day I want lasting muscle. Hypertrophy due to extra fluid in the muscle just seems cheap and fleeting to me. Am I wrong?

I'm ask you becuase you have apparently achieved growth, and I'm assuming that's not all pump or fat.

StaticEntropy

You can always do your main lifts in a lower rep range and your accesory lifts in a higher rep range.

This is an interesting idea, but what is the net benefit over time? I mean, I really want size, but at the end of the day I want lasting muscle. Hypertrophy due to extra fluid in the muscle just seems cheap and fleeting to me. Am I wrong?

I'm ask you becuase you have apparently achieved growth, and I'm assuming that's not all pump or fat.

To be honest, my biggest growth spurt came when I was focusing on big lifts and a rep range of 4-6 while eating tons of food (I was a real skinny *kitten*). For example, the circumference of my chest went from 38" to just shy of 43" in about two years. I started moving towards higher rep accessory work not to achieve sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, but because it was easier on the joints and the CNS.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the amount of sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is limited by the level of myofibrillar hypertrophy one has achieved. In other words, had I focused solely on higher reps when I first started lifting, I probably would still be a (slightly more muscular) skinny *kitten*.

Unknown

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FrnkLft

You can always do your main lifts in a lower rep range and your accesory lifts in a higher rep range.

This is an interesting idea, but what is the net benefit over time? I mean, I really want size, but at the end of the day I want lasting muscle. Hypertrophy due to extra fluid in the muscle just seems cheap and fleeting to me. Am I wrong?

I'm ask you becuase you have apparently achieved growth, and I'm assuming that's not all pump or fat.

To be honest, my biggest growth spurt came when I was focusing on big lifts and a rep range of 4-6 while eating tons of food (I was a real skinny *kitten*). For example, the circumference of my chest went from 38" to just shy of 43" in about two years. I started moving towards higher rep accessory work not to achieve sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, but because it was easier on the joints and the CNS.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the amount of sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is limited by the level of myofibrillar hypertrophy one has achieved. In other words, had I focused solely on higher reps when I first started lifting, I probably would still be a (slightly more muscular) skinny *kitten*.

This is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. Thanks a lot man!

FrnkLft

I'm 3x stronger than when I started, and gained a total of 1lbs of lean mass in a year.

... this is very surprising to me... how is this possible unless you weren't really lifting at your maxes beforehand?

GetSoda

I'm 3x stronger than when I started, and gained a total of 1lbs of lean mass in a year.

... this is very surprising to me... how is this possible unless you weren't really lifting at your maxes beforehand?

Neuromuscular adaptation.

Unknown

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FrnkLft

I'm 3x stronger than when I started, and gained a total of 1lbs of lean mass in a year.

... this is very surprising to me... how is this possible unless you weren't really lifting at your maxes beforehand?

Neuromuscular adaptation.

Really? So you're telling me that I could go from maxing a dumbbell curl at 25lbs (when I started) to 75 lbs without gaining more than a lb of overall muscle mass? That doesn't add up.

But then it depends where you started, if it was at 10 I guess that's possible (not really sure though). Give me some more info.

Unknown

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JenMc14

Yeah this is something else I'm working on actually, I'm supposedly eating +400 but in the past 7 weeks I've only gained 3 lbs.

Noticed this too when I was loosing weight, dropped faster than my calculations. I think my TDEE might be higher than I expected, weight training burning more than MFP calculates possibly.

I think I'd start here, then. Your TDEE could be off if you have lower bf and have been using "generic" calculators. The more lean mass you have, the more you need to eat. So, if you know your bf%, try to find a calculator that takes that into account when figuring out your TDDE. I'm pretty sure the one at fat 2 fit radio does.

But, I'm guessing this could be part of the problem on not gaining weight. Eat more. Up your cals another 200 over the next couple of weeks and see what happens. Are you taking measurements? Are you seeing gains/growth there?

grantdumas7

Here is an excellent interview with Dr Layne Norton. A bodybuilder and powerlifter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6T2RY7rjSs

grantdumas7

Yeah this is something else I'm working on actually, I'm supposedly eating +400 but in the past 7 weeks I've only gained 3 lbs.

Noticed this too when I was loosing weight, dropped faster than my calculations. I think my TDEE might be higher than I expected, weight training burning more than MFP calculates possibly.

Muscle growth is a slow process for most people. Don't rush it too much by eating more and then gaining too much fat. Many people do this. The scale is not moving up as fast as they want so they eat too many calories causing more fat than muscle growth. Then they go on a diet that is too low in calories and end up right back where they were. A scale is okay but use a tape measure. If everything except your waist is getting bigger, then maintain the cals. If everything including your waist is getting bigger, back off the cals a little.
3 pounds in 7 weeks is not that bad. In a year that is about 22 LBS.

phjorg

I'm 3x stronger than when I started, and gained a total of 1lbs of lean mass in a year.

... this is very surprising to me... how is this possible unless you weren't really lifting at your maxes beforehand?

because strength does not mean muscle.

technique for example.

and cns adaptation.

This is why templates like SS are the defaco standard for beginners. For those looking for both strength and size. The main issue with any beginner is they just do not know how to use their muscles properly. Thus they are weak. SS and the like is mostly about teaching your existing muscles to actually work rather than hypertrophy.

Once you plateau for strength gains on templates like these, then you're an intermediate lifter and the real sucky work begins, because then it is about actually having to lift to stress muscle, and then eat a ton of food to rebuild and grow.

BusyRaeNOTBusty

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html

http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=1696