Obesity and poverty...

TheWiseCat

Is everyone saying that the people here who are obese are lazy?

I am saying 99%+ are. Even if you have a disorder, find a way to work around it and make it happen. Take your meds or whatever. This is why I leave the 1% out because some obviously have extremely debilitating circumstances or disorders that don't yet have cures or are in situations beyond their control. Everyone else? Lazy. I am obese. Why? Lazy. Are there finer details? Of course. Are there circumstances that explain it if you got to know me? Definitely. Does that mean I am therefore not lazy? NO. There is a solution that exists and I haven't applied it by choice, ergo lazy.

TheWiseCat

I'm glad we all agree that the problem is people shouldn't drop out babies if they can't afford to feed them.

Wow.. That's a thought.. But it ain't gonna happen as long as children are so lucrative for some. :frown:

When I was at the Social Security office getting my card, the dude at the booth beside me was asking how much the payouts would increase if he had 1 more kid, 2 more kids, 3 more kids... and he was taking notes on all the different things that would boost the payout and the SS employee was more than happy to oblige.

My mom in law retired from the state welfare office. The stories she told were incredible, and quite sad.. The waste and abuse of the system is legendary. The ones who need it a lot of the time don't qualify. and the ones who do, abuse it. You aren't allowed to question even though Ms Jones is telling you her children's father ran out on them, but you know for a fact he is in the waiting room waiting for them. Or the woman who gets emergency assistance and you see her an hour later getting her nails done. You still can't question them. Many choose that lifestyle because it pays well. Why try to do better if you don't need to.. Unfortunately the kids are the ones who suffer.

Because some abuse the system does not mean that everyone does. But hey, it's always easy to sit back and judge, rant bout where our tax money goes.

If the abuse was 5% I would agree. In reality, it's more than 50%. If a system is rotted to the core, it needs to be removed and replaced with something better.

ChgingMe

Anyone who thinks the connection between obesity and poverty can be explained away with a couple of obtuse statements shouldn't be harping on about anyone else's lack of intelligence or education. Life in poverty is a miserable life. When you are miserable, you often make poor choices to try to feel better in the moment. When you live in poverty, life becomes a series of those moments. Few people take into account the fact that there is a strong link between poverty and depression, especially in affluent countries where poverty isn't the norm. Blanket statements about the cost of healthy food and lack of education only touch on part of the reality.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say you have never lived below the poverty level. I lived below the poverty level until well into my 30's. up until my early 20's i was very, very poor. What you posted is a blanket statement that doesn't fit the entirety of the group, and having been in the group myself, i would say it doesn't even fit a majority. I would go so far as to say the percentage is small. You need to talk personally with more poor people or people who actually rose above the poverty, Your post is just not accurate.

I agree. I was poor growing up and I was very happy.. My mom made sure of it. I'm sure my mother has issues with dealing with providing but overall she too was happy. My childhood was great and I never knew how much we struggled until I was older and she told me.

askeates

I'm glad we all agree that the problem is people shouldn't drop out babies if they can't afford to feed them.

You know what is really scary to me?? I know several families in the area I live that continue to have children so they can get additional state benefits! The children are neglected horribly! Our tax dollars pay for them to continue doing this, and nobody will stand up and stop them!!!! This is one of the many things I feel need to be changed.... IMHO.

TheWiseCat

I'm glad we all agree that the problem is people shouldn't drop out babies if they can't afford to feed them.

I'm glad we can solve all of our social issues so easily. Just don't "drop out babies" and buy healthy food. Gotcha. Because there aren't a whole host of other factors that come into play with either of these issues.

There are a ton more, but the bottom line is this. If you can't afford to feed yourself. Why on Earth would you have more children? I really can't wrap my head around that.

Because so many people lack shame, pride, dignity, worth ethic, responsibility and respect.

holliebevineau

when people are living below the poverty line "good eating habits" is not high on their list or priorites. eating is. finishing all the food on your plate so that its not wasted. And yes, it is cheaper to buy mac and cheese and hot dogs for $1 each. and yes being educated on healty eating on a small budget would help. with poverty there are so many other issues that outweigh eating healthy. there is no one answer to this problem.

LibertyBelle89

I will probably be bashed for this... HOWEVER, I'm putting it out there anyway.

I agree with you 110% and have thought for a very long time, that we need to find a way to help the people we have living here in our own country, and slow down on helping the other countries. Part of the reason we are falling apart as a country is because we have stopped looking inside and taking care of our own. We MUST fix the things that are broken here before we can go to other countries and fix what is broken.

When we were a stronger country, helping others was vitally important, but in doing so we have lost sight of our own countries needs! I find it extremely sad.

Ok, I'm going to get off of my soap box, because I could go on forever with this :sad:

no bashing...agreed!

ChgingMe

I'm glad we all agree that the problem is people shouldn't drop out babies if they can't afford to feed them.

Wow.. That's a thought.. But it ain't gonna happen as long as children are so lucrative for some. :frown:

When I was at the Social Security office getting my card, the dude at the booth beside me was asking how much the payouts would increase if he had 1 more kid, 2 more kids, 3 more kids... and he was taking notes on all the different things that would boost the payout and the SS employee was more than happy to oblige.

My mom in law retired from the state welfare office. The stories she told were incredible, and quite sad.. The waste and abuse of the system is legendary. The ones who need it a lot of the time don't qualify. and the ones who do, abuse it. You aren't allowed to question even though Ms Jones is telling you her children's father ran out on them, but you know for a fact he is in the waiting room waiting for them. Or the woman who gets emergency assistance and you see her an hour later getting her nails done. You still can't question them. Many choose that lifestyle because it pays well. Why try to do better if you don't need to.. Unfortunately the kids are the ones who suffer.

Because some abuse the system does not mean that everyone does. But hey, it's always easy to sit back and judge, rant bout where our tax money goes.

Where in that statement did I say everyone does. And I never ever once mentioned my tax money.. I have found that the people who take the most offense to statements like this are the very ones who are abusing the system or know someone who is. I'm not judging. I am stating fact. The system is being abused to the tune of millions of dollars. If you aren't mad about that, you must be part of the problem.

TheWiseCat

3dogsrunning

I'm glad we all agree that the problem is people shouldn't drop out babies if they can't afford to feed them.

I'm glad we can solve all of our social issues so easily. Just don't "drop out babies" and buy healthy food. Gotcha. Because there aren't a whole host of other factors that come into play with either of these issues.

There are a ton more, but the bottom line is this. If you can't afford to feed yourself. Why on Earth would you have more children? I really can't wrap my head around that.

Honestly in my experience it isn't the majority.
For the record I don't agree with having more children when you are already struggling but my point was its not as simple as don't have kids.

TheWiseCat

I'm glad we all agree that the problem is people shouldn't drop out babies if they can't afford to feed them.

I'm glad we can solve all of our social issues so easily. Just don't "drop out babies" and buy healthy food. Gotcha. Because there aren't a whole host of other factors that come into play with either of these issues.

There are a ton more, but the bottom line is this. If you can't afford to feed yourself. Why on Earth would you have more children? I really can't wrap my head around that.

Honestly in my experience it isn't the majority.
For the record I don't agree with having more children when you are already struggling but my point was its not as simple as don't have kids.

I agree it's not that simple. They also have to take birth control pills for it to work.

miche_pi

Part of the other problem is cooking skills. Great a bag of chickpeas is cheap, but if you don't know what to do with them what good are they?? People aren't taught how to COOK nutritious meals these days. Kale, another super yummy and nutritious food, but again...if you don't have a clue how to prepare it in a way that you and your family would enjoy...it would just go to waste.

Incredible point. Folks often forget about the bulk-dried-good option. However, split peas, rice, chick peas, and other beans could get old. But for sure there are cost effective options once in awhile.

There is a sub-culture emerging of obese & under-educated folks are getting stuck in poverty and passing it on to their children and generations to come. What can be done? What groups are responsible encouraging a turn around?

5n0wbal1

I completely agree; for example, a 2-liter of Mountain Dew is a heck of a lot cheaper than the same volume of 100% fruit juice, and juice gets more expensive when you start getting to the brands that don't taste bitter. I'm on WIC and food stamps because my husband is on disability from the military and I'm trying to both go to school and take care of our kids. It's hard to make ends meet, and I hate it, but I have to rely on the assistance until I can get a degree and get a job. It's the only way I can afford to feed my kids anything healthy.

Edited to add: I've noticed a lot of people commenting on how nicely dressed these "poor people" are and how many nice things they have, and how neglected their kids look. Though I know you didn't necessarily mean everyone, that isn't the case for our family. Our TV was on sale, and we bought it three years ago while my husband was still able to work. I don't go clothes shopping anymore. Anything we need comes from secondhand shops. We very rarely eat out. The nice things we DO have are meant for the kids. We bought a safe SUV, nice baby room furniture, high-rated carseats, etc. for the sake of our kids. And one of my sons is breastfed, while the other has three healthy meals a day. Just because we're accepting assistance temporarily doesn't mean our kids are suffering.

kekeleeks

Poverty plays a distinct role with obesity. I have argued with many individuals that we live in a culture that promotes unhealthy choices. Lack of funds plays a role in what information you able to access in regards to health & nutrition. So I definitely agree there is a connection. I think you have to take a multi-faceted approach as when you are living paycheck to paycheck there are other priorities that take precedence over healthy eating.

3dogsrunning

I'm glad we all agree that the problem is people shouldn't drop out babies if they can't afford to feed them.

Wow.. That's a thought.. But it ain't gonna happen as long as children are so lucrative for some. :frown:

When I was at the Social Security office getting my card, the dude at the booth beside me was asking how much the payouts would increase if he had 1 more kid, 2 more kids, 3 more kids... and he was taking notes on all the different things that would boost the payout and the SS employee was more than happy to oblige.

My mom in law retired from the state welfare office. The stories she told were incredible, and quite sad.. The waste and abuse of the system is legendary. The ones who need it a lot of the time don't qualify. and the ones who do, abuse it. You aren't allowed to question even though Ms Jones is telling you her children's father ran out on them, but you know for a fact he is in the waiting room waiting for them. Or the woman who gets emergency assistance and you see her an hour later getting her nails done. You still can't question them. Many choose that lifestyle because it pays well. Why try to do better if you don't need to.. Unfortunately the kids are the ones who suffer.

Because some abuse the system does not mean that everyone does. But hey, it's always easy to sit back and judge, rant bout where our tax money goes.

Where in that statement did I say everyone does. And I never ever once mentioned my tax money.. I have found that the people who take the most offense to statements like this are the very ones who are abusing the system or know someone who is. I'm not judging. I am stating fact. The system is being abused to the tune of millions of dollars. If you aren't mad about that, you must be part of the problem.

I was talking about the topic in general with the tax money.

I dislike the abuse as much as anyone. I see it every. Single. Day. But I also dislike the implication that most people are abusing the system.

ldrosophila

http://www.ers.usda.gov/media/242675/ap036_1_.pdf

The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) defines a food desert as any census district where at least 20 percent of the inhabitants are below the poverty line and 33 percent live over a mile from the nearest supermarket (or in rural areas, more than 10 miles). Approximately 23.5 million Americans live in a food desert, says the USDA, including vast, rural swaths of West Virginia, Ohio, and Kentucky, as well as urban areas like Detroit, Chicago, and New York City. The government believes food deserts are contributing to the obesity epidemic in the U.S., by forcing the rural and urban poor to rely on processed foods and fast food, instead of fresh meat, vegetables, and fruit.


Someone on here also wrote about not having skills to cook and grow gardens. I think that is spot on. Home economics and agriculture is not taught anymore. Not surprising as we are more technical and urban, but you can't excpect someone to make family meal budgets, plan menus, and grow squash when they have no training or experience. If you handed me a packet of seeds I can bet I would never grow anything besides weeds. Good luck if you live in an urban apartment or an area of the country that doesn't support agriculture with out extensive soil fortification or water.

SDHudgins1976

Yes, there are people that abuse the system, yes there are people that just don't try...

but, there are also people at or below poverty level that lack... running water, space to store food they could possibly buy in bulk, ways to prepare (or knowledge to prepare) foods like dried beans, transportation to a grocery store or farmer's market with any regularity, a place where they might be able to grow some of their own vegetables (or even the knowledge how to... I live in a farming community and I am just now getting ready to attempt to raise a small veggie garden this year, and am having to LEARN how).... It's not all about the budget.

People make statements like well they could just do this or that... I work in a school district with a high poverty rate, and the reality is, some of them can't "just" do a lot of those things. I really wish there was an education that went with assistance for people who need it, and possibly transportation available everywhere, but there's just not.

(Interesting tid bit... As a teacher with over 10 years experience, my kids qualified for reduced lunch and state insurance when my husband lost his job... there are people out there getting benefits who you would never expect who are working jobs, and just don't make enough money to make ends meet, I'm proud to say my husband found a job and we no longer receive benefits, but it's still HARD to make ends meet, as his full time employment was replaced by part time employment, but our FIRST priority when he got a job was to eat healthier which meant adding more frozen veggies into our meals because THAT is what fit our budget)

miche_pi

I'm glad we all agree that the problem is people shouldn't drop out babies if they can't afford to feed them.

Wow.. That's a thought.. But it ain't gonna happen as long as children are so lucrative for some. :frown:

When I was at the Social Security office getting my card, the dude at the booth beside me was asking how much the payouts would increase if he had 1 more kid, 2 more kids, 3 more kids... and he was taking notes on all the different things that would boost the payout and the SS employee was more than happy to oblige.

My mom in law retired from the state welfare office. The stories she told were incredible, and quite sad.. The waste and abuse of the system is legendary. The ones who need it a lot of the time don't qualify. and the ones who do, abuse it. You aren't allowed to question even though Ms Jones is telling you her children's father ran out on them, but you know for a fact he is in the waiting room waiting for them. Or the woman who gets emergency assistance and you see her an hour later getting her nails done. You still can't question them. Many choose that lifestyle because it pays well. Why try to do better if you don't need to.. Unfortunately the kids are the ones who suffer.

<b>There is a sub-culture emerging</b> where this "life-style" is socially acceptable and even something to (ironically) aspire for *ahem* settle for. Forgive me for saying this,but I don't even go to a grocery store for the first few days of the month because it's just too heart breaking to see the over-weight & "under-privileged" loading up their grocery carts with bologna, sugary treats, soda, chips, pudding, junk & other "food" for their families.

How long until bypass surgeries are covered on public health care?

ldrosophila

"Predominance of convenience/corner/
liquor stores. Nationally, low-income zip
codes have 30 percent more convenience
stores, which tend to lack healthy
items, than middle-income zip codes."

Food Trust and Policy Link

http://www.policylink.org/atf/cf/{97C6D565-BB43-406D-A6D5-ECA3BBF35AF0}/FINALGroceryGap.pdf

miche_pi

[/quote]

I was talking about the topic in general with the tax money.

I dislike the abuse as much as anyone. I see it every. Single. Day. But I also dislike the implication that most people are abusing the system.
[/quote]


Yes, we do often forget about the disabled vets, widows, invalids & co-dependents. That is who the system was created for, but it appears over-run with ... well what everyone is mentioning. We can all agree the PA system in USA is not right.

ElizabethObviously

How long until bypass surgeries are covered on public health care?

They are. If a person has co morbities ( high BP, diabetes, etc) it is considered medically necc and public aid medical will cover it.

I think being poor does play a small part but it is combined also with people who do not have enough time. Someone mentioned a beautiful garden they had. How many hours does it take to keep the garden growing and beautiful?

I think when people go to work at 5 am and do not get home until 5 pm, they are too tired to think about making rice and beans and would rather order a pizza because it is fast and easy. People like instant gratification.

When a 2 parent working household, with both parents working just so they can pay rent and electric, they sometimes feel they do not have time to cook healthy foods. It is easier to cook a pack of $1 hot dogs and a 50c box of mac and cheese. It is a cycle really. The kids grow up poor, eating unhealthy foods so their body learns to like them and even crave them. I read in a parenting magazine that by age 2, a kid's favorite veggie was the French fry.

bcattoes

I'm glad we all agree that the problem is people shouldn't drop out babies if they can't afford to feed them.

Wow.. That's a thought.. But it ain't gonna happen as long as children are so lucrative for some. :frown:

When I was at the Social Security office getting my card, the dude at the booth beside me was asking how much the payouts would increase if he had 1 more kid, 2 more kids, 3 more kids... and he was taking notes on all the different things that would boost the payout and the SS employee was more than happy to oblige.

Socialy Security? They don't give checks for poverty, so this "dude" was getting assistance for some reason other than being poor with children.

ChgingMe

I think we have to step back ( me included) and realize that there are at least 2 kinds of poverty. On the one hand we have the people who are poor. Who are doing the best they know how with what they are given. They don't always make the best choices but they try to fit in the healthier alternatives when and where they can. They may or may not have the resources like good quality food to choose from but when the opportunity presents itself to do better they always choose that

The second kind of poverty is the single mom who by choice has had baby after baby. She knows to do better but its just so much easier to get help every month from a government she never sees and from tax payers she couldn't care less about. If given the choice she would get her hair or nails done rather then feed her kids and thinks its up to the state to not only educate her kids on how to do better but support her kids.

That's just my take on it.

bcattoes

Forgive me for saying this,but I don't even go to a grocery store for the first few days of the month because it's just too heart breaking to see the over-weight & "under-privileged" loading up their grocery carts with bologna, sugary treats, soda, chips, pudding, junk & other "food" for their families.

Just as many people complain when those on assistance buy things like meat or milk from animals raised w/o antibiotics and hormones, wild caught fish over farm raised, organic produce or other higher priced healthy options.

kekeleeks

I see alot talk about those who are receiving food stamps and other types of government assistance. But what about those families who do not qualify for any state assistance but do not make enough money to thrive on. I don't think the issue is just as simple as to stop having babies especially when some politicians are determined to restrict access to birth control. I think there are larger issues at play.

algebravoodoo

While i agree with you to an extent i'll also argue that yes you can feed a family of 4 for less than $200 a week. My Weekly grocery budget is 1/2 of that! I buy in bulk and also shop seasonal fruits and veggies. I also shop at farmers markets and a little amish shop that is in my neighborhood. Its not just what they are eating, but the quantity.

The catch there is that in communities with the highest poverty rate, there are no farmer's markets, there are no bulk grocery stores. One is lucky to even find a legitimate grocery store! Quantity is certainly a factor, but quality does make a difference as well.

Yes, a family of four can be fed on less than $200 a week. I did it all the time, even though we were a family of eight! However, it took planning on a scale you would not believe!

kekeleeks

I think we have to step back ( me included) and realize that there are at least 2 kinds of poverty. On the one hand we have the people who are poor. Who are doing the best they know how with what they are given. They don't always make the best choices but they try to fit in the healthier alternatives when and where they can. They may or may not have the resources like good quality food to choose from but when the opportunity presents itself to do better they always choose that

The second kind of poverty is the single mom who by choice has had baby after baby. She knows to do better but its just so much easier to get help every month from a government she never sees and from tax payers she couldn't care less about. If given the choice she would get her hair or nails done rather then feed her kids and thinks its up to the state to not only educate her kids on how to do better but support her kids.

That's just my take on it.

That is quite the classist/sexist statement. I think that is a huge generalization of individuals who are living in abject poverty. That sets-up quite the dichotomy and limits the ability to think outside the box.

NYCNika

I think when people go to work at 5 am and do not get home until 5 pm, they are too tired to think about making rice and beans and would rather order a pizza because it is fast and easy. People like instant gratification.

When a 2 parent working household, with both parents working just so they can pay rent and electric, they sometimes feel they do not have time to cook healthy foods. It is easier to cook a pack of $1 hot dogs and a 50c box of mac and cheese. It is a cycle really. The kids grow up poor, eating unhealthy foods so their body learns to like them and even crave them. I read in a parenting magazine that by age 2, a kid's favorite veggie was the French fry.

DH and I both work full time. Our commutes are over 2 hrs per day for each of us. And we cook our child's dinner EVERY day. It takes probably 40 minutes every day to make it fresh and tasty and varied.

We have to go to a supermarket 25 minutes away because the quality of fish and meats and produce is not satisfactory at the store nearby. We make that trip twice a week because most things we buy do not last more than 3 days and I want to feed my child and my family fresh food.

Most days we go to sleep by 2 am, since everything else around the house has to be done after my son is asleep. So yes, I do think a lot of parents are just lazy if their excuses are "we both work", "a supermarket is a 20 minute drive", "we are tired", "we are busy".... Too busy to feed your child?

TheWiseCat

I'm glad we all agree that the problem is people shouldn't drop out babies if they can't afford to feed them.

Wow.. That's a thought.. But it ain't gonna happen as long as children are so lucrative for some. :frown:

When I was at the Social Security office getting my card, the dude at the booth beside me was asking how much the payouts would increase if he had 1 more kid, 2 more kids, 3 more kids... and he was taking notes on all the different things that would boost the payout and the SS employee was more than happy to oblige.

Socialy Security? They don't give checks for poverty, so this "dude" was getting assistance for some reason other than being poor with children.

Could be Welfare 2.0 (disability)

bcattoes

I see alot talk about those who are receiving food stamps and other types of government assistance. But what about those families who do not qualify for any state assistance but do not make enough money to thrive on. I don't think the issue is just as simple as to stop having babies especially when some politicians are determined to restrict access to birth control. I think there are larger issues at play.

Exactly. And you may well have the money to support your children when they are born. Then your spouse dies or leaves. Or the plant where you worked shuts down throwing you and your entire town into poverty. Or one of those children is born with special needs or develops a chronic or life threatening illness. Or you suffer a horrific accident that leaves you disabled. Not everything in our lives are within our control.