Organic Foods: Worth It?

CoachReddy

Monetarily, NO.

As for your insides...that depends...if you have issues with digestion for the past 20+ years, possibly. If not, then NO.

why not monetarily? it costs the farmers more to produce, so it should cost us more to buy

SleeplessinBerlin

bump for later

Loulady

I'm participating in an organic CSA this summer, and some of the stuff I get from farmers markets is organic. It's worth it to me to get local stuff when I can, the organic just comes along for the ride.

CoachReddy

I'm participating in an organic CSA this summer, and some of the stuff I get from farmers markets is organic. It's worth it to me to get local stuff when I can, the organic just comes along for the ride.

me too! good stuff.

under $10/week for all the produce I can possibly want? love it. (i'm splitting my share with my roomie)

ahviendha

i think organic veggies taste better.

i spend the time and money ordering my meat from a local farmer. grass fed and dry aged beef, air chilled chicken, nitrate free bacon. it's expensive, but it tastes so much better than regular meat from a box store.

i also want to support organic, small scale farming.

sweetzoejane

Working in food science, totally with ACG on this one.

As much as GMOs are used to selectively include things, they also selectively exclude things. I'm not advocating highly processed food - that's an entirely different ball game.

Show the evidence base on organic produce. A valid, empirically tested one.

well... yeah... it'd be weird if you didn't support GMOs since they support you paying your bills...

Ok, well, as a person who pretty much strictly eats organic, local produce, gets a CSA box every every week, avoids products that may contain GMOs, and buys almost exclusively from businesses and certain brands who support GMO labeling... I'm with Acg on this one.

CoachReddy

Working in food science, totally with ACG on this one.

As much as GMOs are used to selectively include things, they also selectively exclude things. I'm not advocating highly processed food - that's an entirely different ball game.

Show the evidence base on organic produce. A valid, empirically tested one.

well... yeah... it'd be weird if you didn't support GMOs since they support you paying your bills...

Ok, well, as a person who pretty much strictly eats organic, local produce, gets a CSA box every every week, avoids products that may contain GMOs, and buys almost exclusively from businesses and certain brands who support GMO labeling... I'm with Acg on this one.

so then why do you do it?

Mykaelous

I currently attend UCSD and we have a huge biomedical school here performing research on the subject. Whenever its brought up professors and students scoff at the assertion that there is any benefit to "organic"(all life and thus plants are organic by definition) foods. Ask a geneticist and he will tell you that that foods have been genetically selected for thousands of years(broccoli, carrots, corn, cauliflower as we know it didn't exist in the wild a thousand years ago). Ask a chemist and he will tell you they contain the same compounds and that those that are expressed should not cause any concern. Ask a nutritionist and he will tell you that there is no difference nutrition wise between GMO and non-GMO foods.

All that being said if you can afford it and prefer it go ahead and enjoy it. I myself find no difference in taste, so I opt. for whatever is cheaper being a poor college student. In the meat industry I can understand if people object ethically to how livestock are treated and prefer what they consider to be more "humane" forms of protein.

bcattoes

If it were available and I had the money, I would buy all organic produce and all naturally fed meats. But it's not and I don't. I do try to buy organic for foods on the EWG dirty dozen list (link below), but even those are not always available. Organic hot peppers, for example, are never available in my area. I grow my own in season, but otherwise I buy what's available.

http://www.ewg.org/foodnews/summary.php

I don't believe that all non-organic food is harmful, but I like to support organic farmers when possible.

sweetzoejane

Working in food science, totally with ACG on this one.

As much as GMOs are used to selectively include things, they also selectively exclude things. I'm not advocating highly processed food - that's an entirely different ball game.

Show the evidence base on organic produce. A valid, empirically tested one.

well... yeah... it'd be weird if you didn't support GMOs since they support you paying your bills...

Ok, well, as a person who pretty much strictly eats organic, local produce, gets a CSA box every every week, avoids products that may contain GMOs, and buys almost exclusively from businesses and certain brands who support GMO labeling... I'm with Acg on this one.

so then why do you do it?

Multiple reasons, the least involve the potential adverse health effects of GMOs.

I don’t support the manipulation of our regulatory systems to get GMOs approved, and the power businesses have over government and the food system is unacceptable, in my opinion. It’s bad science and bad business. This is allowing technology to get ahead of us and our knowledge about our food system. I don’t support doing “science” and inventing new things just for the sake of well, science. We’ve clearly identified potential benefit of GMOs, and we have yet to test adequately not only if those benefits are really and truly there and if so, whether they outweigh the risks of what we intend to do with GMOs. We have not tested, from what I’ve seen, any of that.

The pesticides that are used on GMOs have significant adverse health effects on farmers and potentially on those that consume them (so it is not necessarily about GMOs themselves, but the kind of pesticides used and the amount that is used). We know the pesticides used are terrible for the environment, our water, and other food sources (meat), not to mention the problems we now have with super bugs/weeds and lack of biodiversity. I also have plenty of issues with using GMOs to “feed” other countries, but I won’t get into those.

Most organic produce tastes better, in my opinion. Most organic farmers use fewer pesticides and avoid the ones that have evidence for potential adverse health effects.

Supporting local farmers is inherently better for the environment - less travel time for my food to get to me. It’s usually fresher because of this as well, and again, tastes better. It’s better for farmers and their business, and it promotes a better, healthier local economy.

I take a cautionary, but not fearful, approach to my food. I think the anti-GMO movement is far too focused on the potential adverse health effects of GMOs and use anger and fear mongering instead of healthy skepticism, and it prevents others from truly listening to them.

And the difference is that I don't believe I should have to force those beliefs on anyone else. I don't tell people organic food is better for them because I don't think we really have the evidence for it right now. I only ever ask others to consider why they have the position they have. The fact that people can say there is no evidence that GMOs are bad for us so I'll keep eating them shows me they don't understand the other issues and could care less about learning more. And the fact that those on the other side of this are telling people GMOs have been proven to cause cancer also tells me they don't understand the real issues and could care less about learning more.

CoachReddy

Working in food science, totally with ACG on this one.

As much as GMOs are used to selectively include things, they also selectively exclude things. I'm not advocating highly processed food - that's an entirely different ball game.

Show the evidence base on organic produce. A valid, empirically tested one.

well... yeah... it'd be weird if you didn't support GMOs since they support you paying your bills...

Ok, well, as a person who pretty much strictly eats organic, local produce, gets a CSA box every every week, avoids products that may contain GMOs, and buys almost exclusively from businesses and certain brands who support GMO labeling... I'm with Acg on this one.

so then why do you do it?

Multiple reasons, the least involve the potential adverse health effects of GMOs.

I don’t support the manipulation of our regulatory systems to get GMOs approved, and the power businesses have over government and the food system is unacceptable, in my opinion. It’s bad science and bad business. This is allowing technology to get ahead of us and our knowledge about our food system. I don’t support doing “science” and inventing new things just for the sake of well, science. We’ve clearly identified potential benefit of GMOs, and we have yet to test adequately not only if those benefits are really and truly there and if so, whether they outweigh the risks of what we intend to do with GMOs. We have not tested, from what I’ve seen, any of that.

The pesticides that are used on GMOs have significant adverse health effects on farmers and potentially on those that consume them (so it is not necessarily about GMOs themselves, but the kind of pesticides used and the amount that is used). We know the pesticides used are terrible for the environment, our water, and other food sources (meat), not to mention the problems we now have with super bugs/weeds and lack of biodiversity. I also have plenty of issues with using GMOs to “feed” other countries, but I won’t get into those.

Most organic produce tastes better, in my opinion. Most organic farmers use fewer pesticides and avoid the ones that have evidence for potential adverse health effects.

Supporting local farmers is inherently better for the environment - less travel time for my food to get to me. It’s usually fresher because of this as well, and again, tastes better. It’s better for farmers and their business, and it promotes a better, healthier local economy.

I take a cautionary, but not fearful, approach to my food. I think the anti-GMO movement is far too focused on the potential adverse health effects of GMOs and use anger and fear mongering instead of healthy skepticism, and it prevents others from truly listening to them.

And the difference is that I don't believe I should have to force those beliefs on anyone else. I don't tell people organic food is better for them because I don't think we really have the evidence for it right now. I only ever ask others to consider why they have the position they have. The fact that people can say there is no evidence that GMOs are bad for us so I'll keep eating them shows me they don't understand the other issues and could care less about learning more. And the fact that those on the other side of this are telling people GMOs have been proven to cause cancer also tells me they don't understand the real issues and could care less about learning more.

this is awesome.

thanks for sharing that. makes a ton of sense

erinsueburns

I do typically buy organic, but that is primarily because they are less likely to be coated in food grade waxes. Why is this important to me specifically? Because one of the common ones is corn derived and I have a severe corn allergy. Since produce is not required to label their modified atmosphere packaging, it makes better sense for me to try to avoid it when possible.

MelsAuntie

That is totally wrong, as well as misleading. We use certified organic seed. We weed by hand, use ducks and row covers for insect contriol, use no pesticides or herbicides of any kind, and don't allow any spraying from airplanes over our land. Water comes from our own well. Many organic farmers follow the same practices. The person who posted the quoted remark needs some education about this subject before sticking foot in mouth.

Your one experience can hardly be extended out to every "organic" farmer out there. To say that exposes your own total naivety.

Seeing as you're a farmer, then you should also know that plants themselves make their own pesticides.

On the other hand, are you really a farmer? Because how the hell does a farmer use "pesticide" and "herbicide" as comparative terms?

We have 35 acres in hay and lease a good deal more ( not set completely for this year, still negotiating) more acreage for hay, we sell thousands of bales per year, we have a 220 ft. x 140 ft. all-natural vegetable garden and sell at our local farmer's market and belong to the state farmer's market organization. We subscribe to magazines like Farm News, Forage, and Farm Show. There are three tractors, a haybine, a baler, a rotary rake, a sprayer, a spreader, just for starters. Neither my husband nor I have a job outside of the farm, retired to devote full time to this, I guess that makes us farmers. By the way, pesticide refers to bug control and herbicide to weed control.

rm7161

locally grown is more important than organic, imo. Fresh food in season always tastes better, and keeps your money locally in the community.

I am with Agc on this one. That said, I sometimes buy organic products, but not because it's organic.

kateauch

"organic" produce is 8 times more likely to cause e-coli infection if not thorough cleaned properly than conventionally grown produce.
Organic farming is also far more abusive to farm land due to the fact that yield per acre is half or less conventional means.
Lower yield per acre drive costs up but with no proportional gain in real benefit to the consumer. It is just more expensive. While that higher prioce makes some people think something is better, for most of us facts are more important.
The number one source of fertilizer for "organic" farming is cow manure from factory cattle ranches. In fact there are very few, if any, non-animal based organic fertilizers that are mass produced. So good luck finding "vegan" certified organic at anything approaching affordable prices.

Bottom line is buy what your budget and taste buds like.
But if you buy organic at a farmers market remember to clean more thorough than you otherwise might.

Very accurate info. I'm from an ag/livestock background and have done extensive work on organic produce/organic meats front.

I've been to several feed mills too that have repeatedly said that all the organic ingredients they get are of poorer quality, less nutritious and often times have more bacteria and molds in them but they still must use them because people want "organic" feed stuffs for their animals.

Also, for those who buy "free-range" anything- the USDA qualifies any animal that has access to an open area as "free-range." A chicken coop that has a door on it is considered a free-range facility. Do these animals actually range freely? Most of the time- no. An animal goes where its food and water are- inside.

Same goes for anything "grass-fed." Grass fed beef are still finished in a feed lot like every other cow. They're just fed grass clippings instead of corn.

Also, if you did a blind taste test, you'd most likely choose traditionally raised beef versus grass fed anyway. Traditionally fed beef has higher marbling, more fat, in the muscle which then equates to a tastier steak. Grass fed cattle have lower sub and inter cutaneous fat stores as grass is lower in lipids than corn thus less fat deposited in the muscle and a drier steak.

Another thing to keep in mind about the organics trend is that "organic" produce doesn't not have any real set standard for quality, is not specifically government regulated outside of allowed substances/GMO's and means several different things to several people. Read the fact sheet below- you can't grow organic produce in sewer sludge (can't do that with any other produce either!), and has a more limited pesticide/herbicide use list. Biggest difference is no GMO's. That's about it.

The most assured way to know how your food is grown/raised? Do it yourself. Is this realistic? No. In the meantime, read your labels and do your research. Talk to experts. Talk to growers. Talk to farmers. Talk to ranchers. THEY WILL BE HAPPY TO GIVE YOU INFO. Sorry, getting off the soap box now before I go crazy.

Anyone interested in getting more facts on current agriculture, PLEASE feel free to contact me!

Also, here's the USDA fact sheet link-
http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELDEV3004446&acct=nopgeninfo

CoachReddy

"organic" produce is 8 times more likely to cause e-coli infection if not thorough cleaned properly than conventionally grown produce.
Organic farming is also far more abusive to farm land due to the fact that yield per acre is half or less conventional means.
Lower yield per acre drive costs up but with no proportional gain in real benefit to the consumer. It is just more expensive. While that higher prioce makes some people think something is better, for most of us facts are more important.
The number one source of fertilizer for "organic" farming is cow manure from factory cattle ranches. In fact there are very few, if any, non-animal based organic fertilizers that are mass produced. So good luck finding "vegan" certified organic at anything approaching affordable prices.

Bottom line is buy what your budget and taste buds like.
But if you buy organic at a farmers market remember to clean more thorough than you otherwise might.

Very accurate info. I'm from an ag/livestock background and have done extensive work on organic produce/organic meats front.

I've been to several feed mills too that have repeatedly said that all the organic ingredients they get are of poorer quality, less nutritious and often times have more bacteria and molds in them but they still must use them because people want "organic" feed stuffs for their animals.

Also, for those who buy "free-range" anything- the FDA qualifies any animal that has access to an open area as "free-range." A chicken coop that has a door on it is considered a free-range facility. Do these animals actually range freely? Most of the time- no. An animal goes where its food and water are- inside.

Same goes for anything "grass-fed." Grass fed beef are still finished in a feed lot like every other cow. They're just fed grass clippings instead of corn.

Also, if you did a blind taste test, you'd most likely choose traditionally raised beef versus grass fed anyway. Traditionally fed beef has higher marbling, more fat, in the muscle which then equates to a tastier steak. Grass fed cattle have lower sub and inter cutaneous fat stores as grass is lower in lipids than corn thus less fat deposited in the muscle and a drier steak.

Another thing to keep in mind about the organics trend is that "organic" produce doesn't not have any real set standard, is not specifically government regulated outside of allowed substances/GMO's and means several different things to several people.

The most assured way to know how your food is grown/raised? Do it yourself. Is this realistic? No. In the meantime, read your labels and do your research. Talk to experts. Talk to growers. Talk to farmers. Talk to ranchers. THEY WILL BE HAPPY TO GIVE YOU INFO. Sorry, getting off the soap box now before I go crazy.

Anyone interested in getting more facts on current agriculture, PLEASE feel free to contact me!

Also, here's the USDA fact sheet link-
http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELDEV3004446&acct=nopgeninfo

biased post is biased, but i appreciate your perspective. if you talk to organic farmers, they'll all probably say the opposite of everything you just listed.

there are many local farms in my area that pasture their animals completely, and that's where i prefer to buy my meat and eggs. also, finishing on grass clippings is still preferable to finishing on corn - which cows are not at ALL designed to eat or digest.

kateauch

"organic" produce is 8 times more likely to cause e-coli infection if not thorough cleaned properly than conventionally grown produce.
Organic farming is also far more abusive to farm land due to the fact that yield per acre is half or less conventional means.
Lower yield per acre drive costs up but with no proportional gain in real benefit to the consumer. It is just more expensive. While that higher prioce makes some people think something is better, for most of us facts are more important.
The number one source of fertilizer for "organic" farming is cow manure from factory cattle ranches. In fact there are very few, if any, non-animal based organic fertilizers that are mass produced. So good luck finding "vegan" certified organic at anything approaching affordable prices.

Bottom line is buy what your budget and taste buds like.
But if you buy organic at a farmers market remember to clean more thorough than you otherwise might.

Very accurate info. I'm from an ag/livestock background and have done extensive work on organic produce/organic meats front.

I've been to several feed mills too that have repeatedly said that all the organic ingredients they get are of poorer quality, less nutritious and often times have more bacteria and molds in them but they still must use them because people want "organic" feed stuffs for their animals.

Also, for those who buy "free-range" anything- the FDA qualifies any animal that has access to an open area as "free-range." A chicken coop that has a door on it is considered a free-range facility. Do these animals actually range freely? Most of the time- no. An animal goes where its food and water are- inside.

Same goes for anything "grass-fed." Grass fed beef are still finished in a feed lot like every other cow. They're just fed grass clippings instead of corn.

Also, if you did a blind taste test, you'd most likely choose traditionally raised beef versus grass fed anyway. Traditionally fed beef has higher marbling, more fat, in the muscle which then equates to a tastier steak. Grass fed cattle have lower sub and inter cutaneous fat stores as grass is lower in lipids than corn thus less fat deposited in the muscle and a drier steak.

Another thing to keep in mind about the organics trend is that "organic" produce doesn't not have any real set standard, is not specifically government regulated outside of allowed substances/GMO's and means several different things to several people.

The most assured way to know how your food is grown/raised? Do it yourself. Is this realistic? No. In the meantime, read your labels and do your research. Talk to experts. Talk to growers. Talk to farmers. Talk to ranchers. THEY WILL BE HAPPY TO GIVE YOU INFO. Sorry, getting off the soap box now before I go crazy.

Anyone interested in getting more facts on current agriculture, PLEASE feel free to contact me!

Also, here's the USDA fact sheet link-
http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELDEV3004446&acct=nopgeninfo

biased post is biased, but i appreciate your perspective. if you talk to organic farmers, they'll all probably say the opposite of everything you just listed.

there are many local farms in my area that pasture their animals completely, and that's where i prefer to buy my meat and eggs. also, finishing on grass clippings is still preferable to finishing on corn - which cows are not at ALL designed to eat or digest.

"Biased post is biased"- Indeed it is.

In a perfect world, we would all raise our own food and live in sod houses and ride horses to church on Sunday. Yes, I myself prefer to raise my own meat, grow my own veggies and milk my own damn cow.

Reality is the majority of people in this country are going to get their next meal at a grocery store. All I'm trying to put out there is that commercially raised anything isn't quite the devil it's made out to be and organic foods aren't quite the godsend they're also proclaimed as.

stealthq

Also, if you did a blind taste test, you'd most likely choose traditionally raised beef versus grass fed anyway. Traditionally fed beef has higher marbling, more fat, in the muscle which then equates to a tastier steak. Grass fed cattle have lower sub and inter cutaneous fat stores as grass is lower in lipids than corn thus less fat deposited in the muscle and a drier steak.

This depends. It is true that grass-fed is leaner. If you cook corn-fed and grass-fed the 'usual' (high heat, quickly) way, then yes, the grass-fed will be drier. But, that isn't cooking lean meat right - it needs lower heat and a longer cooking time for the meat to be tender and juicy. If both pieces of meat are cooked properly (optimum method for each), then it's down to simple taste profile preference rather than a choice between a dry piece of meat or a juicy one.

andezz99

I am on a Paleo diet right now (also called a caveman diet), which limits me to meats, vegtables, eggs, fruit and nuts. No dairy (milk, cheese), not grains (wheat, bread, corn products), no beans or soy. So given the limitations of my diet, organic products matter. Take free range chicken and eggs over traditional grocery store product. Commercial chickens are feed synthetic, bio engineered food, raised in tight conditions and share bacteria. Think of the likelihood of catching a cold on a crowded airplane in the winter, people shoved together are likely to catch germs. Free range chickens and beef, are raised in open pastures, feed a natural diet. A good rule to remember is "you eat, what your eat, EATS". What ever they eat, you eat.

Since eating this way I have noticed the meat I eat is better tasting and I can tell the difference when I do find myself eating commercial meat. As far has organic vegetables and fruit, again taste is obvious, especially when you eat this type of food all the time, it's like a coffee drinkers preference for Starbucks over Instant.

Here is a good overview of your food, the effects of chemicals on us. It's worth a look http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rixyrCNVVGA

Afura

Organic farming is also far more abusive to farm land due to the fact that yield per acre is half or less conventional means.
Lower yield per acre drive costs up but with no proportional gain in real benefit to the consumer. It is just more expensive. While that higher prioce makes some people think something is better, for most of us facts are more important.

How is organic farming more abusive to the land? I'm not trolling, I'm interested in how this is so. Wouldn't a lower yield per acre mean that it's actually leaching less minerals out of the land, and with hopefully lower-damaging pesticides (knowing that not all organic farmers use the less harmful pesticides) hurt the land less? And personally I don't find that if it's more expensive it's better for you, but I know there are plenty of hipsters that do.