Regarding squatting and bad knees

chellebublz

So I am trying to help my fiance come up with a weight program. I've posted before, we have a small gym in town that doesn't have barbells, so we are trying to do a program with bodyweight and dumbbells and little machine if needed. I have showed him New Rules of Lifting (I am doing NROLFW) and also Stronglifts 5x5 and he doesn't think he can do them. He has bad knees, he said he blew his knees out years ago and ever since its hard to walk to long periods of time. My theory is that squats done properly will help him strengthen his knees. He says that is not true and that squats put too much weight on his knees and it hurts. I do squats and have lingering Osgood from junior high and don't feel them in my knees, only my quads and glutes. Albeit, I do them alot because quad exercises are good for Osgood symptoms. Anyways, what I'm getting at is, who is right here? I don't want to encourage him to do something that he truly can't do. But I don't want him to limit himself or hold himself back just because he is afraid or doesn't think he can. (Because I've learned through these 30 lbs lost that my body can do things I had no idea was in me!!!!) And no, before anyone tries to lecture me, I'm not trying to tell him what to do or what he can and can't do. I'm trying to help him so he isn't just going to the gym and doing random silly things that end up being a waste of time, because I spend a lot of time looking things up and he asked me to.....

whierd

I would recommend having his knees checked out by a doctor, and then scheduling some sessions with a personal trainer to ensure he is using proper form. If he isn't and has bad knees, he could hurt himself.

chellebublz

Thanks, I will have him think about that for sure. I know the blowout he was in the military and was doing crazy lifting things and was trying to do too much and that's why it blew. My hunch is that now that he's gained so much weight, that is what is causing the soreness and not having bad knees. But I'm a woman and he's stubborn, he hates to admit I might know more than him about something in the gym lol

2essie

I suppose it depends what is wrong with his knees. I had bad knees. I could only go upstairs on all fours and really struggled with them. I started doing squats, just a few at first, and really noticed a difference. If I don't do my squats for a day or two, my knees stiffen up. When I start doing them again I can run up and down stairs.

After I started squatting I also decided to lose some weight. 52lbs later you can imagine how my knees breathed a sigh of relief. I still have to do my squats and as long as I do, my knees are no trouble.

This is just my experience and I would still recommend your husband seeing a doctor first.

Hope this help.

neandermagnon

get medical advice from a sports physio or doctor who understands sports medicine before doing squats if you have bad knees. Yes, squats can strengthen the knees and improve a lot of knee problems, but in some kinds of injury lifting can make things worse, or the form that should be used may be different. That goes for lifting and any kind of injury. It really depends on what is wrong. Being sedentary is probably worse for the knees and the back than lifting, BUT unless you have a proper diagnosis of what's going on, you can't say if lifting will make things better or worse. Hence see a doctor. And make sure it's one who really gets sports medicine, because a lot of docs will say "don't lift" just to be on the safe side, rather than try to make a proper diagnosis and see if the person actually has the kind of injury that will make lifting dangerous, because as has been said, in most cases lifting will actually improve things.

BinaryPulsar

get medical advice from a sports physio or doctor who understands sports medicine before doing squats if you have bad knees. Yes, squats can strengthen the knees and improve a lot of knee problems, but in some kinds of injury lifting can make things worse, or the form that should be used may be different. That goes for lifting and any kind of injury. It really depends on what is wrong. Being sedentary is probably worse for the knees and the back than lifting, BUT unless you have a proper diagnosis of what's going on, you can't say if lifting will make things better or worse. Hence see a doctor. And make sure it's one who really gets sports medicine, because a lot of docs will say "don't lift" just to be on the safe side, rather than try to make a proper diagnosis and see if the person actually has the kind of injury that will make lifting dangerous, because as has been said, in most cases lifting will actually improve things.

Yeah, I agree. See a physio. But, find a new one if the physio seems to be not properly informed on heavy lifting, compound moves. I've been there with knee injuries and also needing to find a new physio that understands what my goals are. If you guys are well educated on heavy, compound lifts, it will help you understand if the physio is giving a good rehab program or just having him goof off on a bosu ball, doing bicep curls with 5 pound weights. Sometimes people do need to do other moves to strengthen their muscles and heal their joints before doing squats and then will need a slower progression. There are many options.

BinaryPulsar

Oh, I forgot to say that the book he should be using is The New Rules of Lifting for Life. That one is for people that have had injuries. Even the author of the New Rules books no longer does squats because of it hurting his knees.

LinFlemmer331

I am a bit sensitive on the subject because I have had to deal with people that just don't understand how much pain I have dealt with concerning my knees. I injured my right knee about 12 years ago, didn't know I had a torn meniscus, and walked on it and lived with it until about 5 years ago when all the surgeries, injections, joint drainage, and bone on bone grinding began. My joint finally collapsed and I had a full knee replacement 2 years ago. I still can't do squats or climb stairs and a myriad of things I can't do without pain. He needs to see an orthopedic doctor. If it hurts, find out why. If the doctor clears him to do the exercises, great! If not, have him ride a bike, swim and lift weights that his doctor okay's. Trust me, he doesn't want want a knee replacement! Good luck!

EvgeniZyntx

get medical advice from a sports physio or doctor who understands sports medicine before doing squats if you have bad knees. Yes, squats can strengthen the knees and improve a lot of knee problems, but in some kinds of injury lifting can make things worse, or the form that should be used may be different. That goes for lifting and any kind of injury. It really depends on what is wrong. Being sedentary is probably worse for the knees and the back than lifting, BUT unless you have a proper diagnosis of what's going on, you can't say if lifting will make things better or worse. Hence see a doctor. And make sure it's one who really gets sports medicine, because a lot of docs will say "don't lift" just to be on the safe side, rather than try to make a proper diagnosis and see if the person actually has the kind of injury that will make lifting dangerous, because as has been said, in most cases lifting will actually improve things.

Yeah, I agree. See a physio. But, find a new one if the physio seems to be not properly informed on heavy lifting, compound moves. I've been there with knee injuries and also needing to find a new physio that understands what my goals are. If you guys are well educated on heavy, compound lifts, it will help you understand if the physio is giving a good rehab program or just having him goof off on a bosu ball, doing bicep curls with 5 pound weights. Sometimes people do need to do other moves to strengthen their muscles and heal their joints before doing squats and then will need a slower progression. There are many options.

QFT

The answer is depends. Lifting can be good at strengthening knees or result in further injury. It depends on form, weight and frequency as well as existing injury. See a therapist or trainer that has a good program.

Oh, and those balls can actually be excellent at strengthening stabilizers and working balance but *likely* shouldn't be the core exercise.

Form. Form. Form.

ChloeRoseLejeune

Atg or it doesnt count brah

phjorg1

first sports physio or sports doc to see what kind of serious it is.

But if you want to give it a go, then box squats are what you do. any sharp stabbing pain however and it's an automatic stop.

n3ver3nder

Find a decent physio, preferably one that knows his **** about lifting. The physio I see is also head physio for my towns Rugby team, and we had a few decent conversations and lifting, programming and the like. A previous physio I saw (NHS, rather than private) didn't even know the difference between Olympic lifting and Power lifting.
So it can be hit and miss, but you need to find a physio that understands the mechanics of lifting, and how that will affect injury.

A lot of people I know who lift, who have had 'bad knees' (as in unspecific cause), have had them sorted by squatting with good form, always below parallel. Conversely, all the bodybuilders at my gym who complain of bad knees, all have terrible squat form. Coincidence? Squats get a rep for being bad for the knees, but this tends to come from people who don't know how to squat.

phjorg1

Find a decent physio, preferably one that knows his **** about lifting. The physio I see is also head physio for my towns Rugby team, and we had a few decent conversations and lifting, programming and the like. A previous physio I saw (NHS, rather than private) didn't even know the difference between Olympic lifting and Power lifting.
So it can be hit and miss, but you need to find a physio that understands the mechanics of lifting, and how that will affect injury.

A lot of people I know who lift, who have had 'bad knees' (as in unspecific cause), have had them sorted by squatting with good form, always below parallel. Conversely, all the bodybuilders at my gym who complain of bad knees, all have terrible squat form. Coincidence? Squats get a rep for being bad for the knees, but this tends to come from people who don't know how to squat.

This is true. The rule is improperly done, squats will eff up your knees faster and harder than anything else you could possibly do. However, properly done squats will fix and strengthen them better than anything else you could possibly do.

bartbell

I had knee surgery a year ago and already back up to doing reps at over 400#. By a good pair of knee wraps, learn how to wrap them correctly them have him build up by a few pounds every week. He will be suprised how much those help.

yksdoris

The main point has been said already: it very much depends on what is wrong with the knee: is it a ligament, is it a joint, is it a muscle or a nerve? Where is it? The knee is a very complicated piece of engineering. My own knee problems actually stem from a mis-placed (and therefore underdeveloped) muscle in my calf, which was pulling the ligaments in a wrong way when excercised, thus causing pain in the knee. the solution was to manually place the muscle correctly and strengthen the leg with balance excercises until it was as strong as the other leg. If it's something fairly simple like that then the problem can definitely be fixed in a non-invasive way with directed excercise and lots of patience. But if it's something really broken in his knee then excercise could definitely make it worse.

Also, is it both knees? Because if it's just one knee, he could still excercise the other leg carefully. Don't be afraid of being over-balanced on one side, the excercise, if done on just one side does "migrate" to an extent to the other side as well. At least that's what I was told when I started doing leg presses: to do the weaker leg with less weights and the stronger leg with more weights, they'd balance out eventually. Which they did.

Edited to add: also, to all those nay-sayers: pfft! you can do almost anything you want to do if you're careful of posture and technique. I was born with a birth trauma (*kitten* first, bent double. poor mom.) and some doctors claimed I may never learn to walk. But my mom never gave up, she got second opinions, she researched things for herself, she got me braces, she stayed on and on and on with me about pointing my toes right, about standing straight, about always being aware of my posture.

drvvork

I have bad knees - no squats for me. Of course, if I want to push myself into knee replacement I could do them but I'm not financially capable of doing that at this time. As far as the lingering Osgood condition, my daughter had that too and never out grew it and it caused much concern but nothing was ever done for her. :huh:

CristinaL1983

Just going to echo what everyone else has said. Depending on the injury and type of pain, squats can either help or hurt.

I've had some knee issues and did several months of physical therapy for that (and then another year+ for ankle injuries/surgeries) for both, my physical therapist had me doing squats but at different stages. For some of my injuries, I had to build the muscles up using other means to a certain level before squats (weighted) were recommended.

Highly recommend an ortho (for unresolved injury) or physical therapist for recommended exercises (as well as contraindicated exercises).