Donating plasma, and blood doping

msarro

This is a little off topic I suppose, but its something I've been curious about for awhile.
For those of you who don't know, blood doping is when you have some of your blood removed and stored outside your body. Then a day or two later, after your body has replenished the missing blood, the stored blood gets pumped back into you. This gives you a TON of extra red blood cells, which means your bloodstream can hold far more oxygen than normal. This means your performance is steeply enhanced. It's what Lance Armstrong is being accused of now.

Now, what I've always wondered is, when you donate plasma you are getting rid of mostly water, platelets, and other stuff out of your bloodstream. Red blood cells get pumped back into your body. Now, after the process, you would have a much higher ratio of red blood cells to fluid going through your veins. Does this have any affect on performance? Would it act almost like blood doping? Does your body react fast enough to the red blood cells being out of the body to have any appreciable "extra" production take place?

Just curious - keep hearing about this Armstrong thing (which imho I think is bs) and am curious about it.

firegirlred

While the ratio is higher, your total count is not. The total red blood cell count is the critical part when talking about blood doping.

By the way. I LOVE your signature-Which did you like better-the book, the original movie, or the remake?

Chenoachem

The people that I have known that donate plasma as you are describing, do a double donate. They do the normal donate thing and then do a second amount where the red blood cells get pumped back in. Most of them complain of feeling tired and fatigued afterwards. I haven't seen anyone just jump up and go out for a run.

msarro

While the ratio is higher, your total count is not. The total red blood cell count is the critical part when talking about blood doping.

By the way. I LOVE your signature-Which did you like better-the book, the original movie, or the remake?

Chenoachem - Hmm, around here people can just donate plasma, usually for money. Most of the blood banks don't take plasma. Weird.

Firegirlred - I kinda figured
I adored the book though it took me forever to get through. The original movie was awesome (though it sucked you had to watch 2 different versions to get the whole thing, lol). I never got to see the remake!

TropicalKitty

By removing the plasma I'd think you'd end up a bit dehydrated as well.

Like a previous poster mentioned, you may have a higher concentration of RBCs but you won't have a higher count. Plus, having less fluid for them to travel around in, doesn't sound like it would help.

I know that they use packed RBCs for trauma patients since you can more quickly deliver oxygen to tissues than with normal blood. I would think it's along those lines why the "blood doping" would help.

Azdak

You get the RBCs back. There is a little bit of loss (what's left in the tubes and bags) which is why they put some limits on plasma donation.

The body replaces the plasma in 24 hours, so there is no time for any performance boost, even if possible.

Increasing hematocrit (% of RBCs) is a tricky business. The increase in performance from the increased number of RBCs is often offset by the impaired blood flow that occurs because the blood is thicker.

Studies that were done on Mt Everest in the 1980s suggested that the large increase in RBCs experienced by non-natives during "acclimatization" was actually a NEGATIVE adaptation rather than a positive one. Most of the problems w/frostbite and O2 deprivation that occur in the "death zone" of high-altitude climbing are due in large part to the increased thickness of the blood.

sarahsmom1

I don't think the plasma has the cells in it so when you re-introducing more cells to your body you are bound to have quite the advantage over those who play fair and count on their own strength and talent. I'm wondering how long the effect lasts until you have your normal blood count again. I know my daughter has to be available 24 hours 7 days a week for drug testing. She has to telling the anti-doping league where she is at all times if she is not at home for random drug testing. And she is tested after every meet (when she medals). That is an interesting question

msarro

You get the RBCs back. There is a little bit of loss (what's left in the tubes and bags) which is why they put some limits on plasma donation.

The body replaces the plasma in 24 hours, so there is no time for any performance boost, even if possible.

Increasing hematocrit (% of RBCs) is a tricky business. The increase in performance from the increased number of RBCs is often offset by the impaired blood flow that occurs because the blood is thicker.

Studies that were done on Mt Everest in the 1980s suggested that the large increase in RBCs experienced by non-natives during "acclimatization" was actually a NEGATIVE adaptation rather than a positive one. Most of the problems w/frostbite and O2 deprivation that occur in the "death zone" of high-altitude climbing are due in large part to the increased thickness of the blood.

So it could have similar effects to hemochromatosis?