Using nutrition with intermittent Fasting for fat loss

PcShed

Hi everyone, I though I give my first update on my new venture. My main goal is to lose bodyfat and increase Lean Mass using nutrition mainly

I started on Friday 3rd May, preparing for the Fast. My stats are as followed:

Weight:111.7kg - 245.7lbs

Fat:28.7% 70.5lbs

BMI:32.5%

Lean Mass:176.2lbs

After a final meal on Friday I startedmy fasting with a calorie controlled diet of 2500 calories per day, eating only 3 times a day at 1.00pm, 4.30pm and 8.00pm.

My nutrition breakdown per day is as followed:

Calories:2500

Protein:188g

Carbs:63g

Fat:167g

I fast from 8.00pm to 1.00pm (16 hours) and have a 8 hour eating window.

I train in fasted stated at 12.00pm before my first meal. The training is intense for 45mins to 60 mins as I am carb depleting at the moment for carb load up on Saturday 11th May at 12.00pm.

I am using several techniques, fasting, low carb nutrition and carb loading. I am trying to get my body to use fat as source of energy and minimise lean mass loss at the same time.

I will be measuring ketones on Sat 11 may on my urine.

Here are my new stats as follwed after 5 days:

Bodyweight: 110.5kg 243.1 lbs

Bodyfat: 27.3% 66.3lbs

Lean Mass: 176.7 lbs

BMI: 32.3

So I have decrease total body weight by 2.6 lbs, decrease bodyfat by 4.2 lbs and gained 0.6 lbs in lean mass.

I have been drinking 8-10 litres of water per day ( makes you go to the toilet every 30 minutes)

My passed background in training was strength training and heavy weight training, eating 7 times a day and high calories with focused on protein. I gained good progress in the passed but slow in losing body fat hence I am trying this method which totally going against my past experience.

So there you are, let me know what you think.

Many thanks

Sergio

Ipalavra

It's too late for me to analyze the whole post, but I will tell you something you should abandon immediately:

Training in a fasted state, it is a myth that it helps.

Studies have proven that those who have a meal in the morning prior to a workout burn more fat than those who have a meal afterwards. You're body NEEDS carbs to burn fat! Lowering your carbs only helps to a certain point at which going lower inhibits your fat loss.

Spread your meals out throughout your day. Go for 200g a carb a day, and eat carbs after a workout.

Lipogenisis (converting of carbs to fat) is inhibited after a workout, even showing no difference between low/high GI. Your body uses those carbs to restore glycogen stores that were depleted through exercise.

Stick to low GI carbs, high fiber, and don't overdue it. Remember, your body uses carbs to burn fat!

AbsoluteNG

It's too late for me to analyze the whole post, but I will tell you something you should abandon immediately:

Training in a fasted state, it is a myth that it helps.

Studies have proven that those who have a meal in the morning prior to a workout burn more fat than those who have a meal afterwards. You're body NEEDS carbs to burn fat! Lowering your carbs only helps to a certain point at which going lower inhibits your fat loss.

Spread your meals out throughout your day. Go for 200g a carb a day, and eat carbs after a workout.

Lipogenisis (converting of carbs to fat) is inhibited after a workout, even showing no difference between low/high GI. Your body uses those carbs to restore glycogen stores that were depleted through exercise.

Stick to low GI carbs, high fiber, and don't overdue it. Remember, your body uses carbs to burn fat!

hodgetwins are living proof that your research is flawed. They train fasted, do not eat breakfast, and wait at least 2 hours after a workout before they eat. Some of the videos are old, from when they first started doing IF over a year ago as it was new to them.

Breakfast Speeds Up Metabolism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03gjSG8md7s

FastingTwins: The Importance of Not Eating Postworkout!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmXLqmqBzeU

TMW: Energy While Intermittent Fasting Has Been Amazing
.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeViPIwDagY

Habits That Can Hinder or Stop Natural HGH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH7CPh8u2RA


.

Joehenny

Actually research is showing that training fasted raises HGH level, and even more is showing that training either way there is minimal difference.

Ipalavra

It's too late for me to analyze the whole post, but I will tell you something you should abandon immediately:

Training in a fasted state, it is a myth that it helps.

Studies have proven that those who have a meal in the morning prior to a workout burn more fat than those who have a meal afterwards. You're body NEEDS carbs to burn fat! Lowering your carbs only helps to a certain point at which going lower inhibits your fat loss.

Spread your meals out throughout your day. Go for 200g a carb a day, and eat carbs after a workout.

Lipogenisis (converting of carbs to fat) is inhibited after a workout, even showing no difference between low/high GI. Your body uses those carbs to restore glycogen stores that were depleted through exercise.

Stick to low GI carbs, high fiber, and don't overdue it. Remember, your body uses carbs to burn fat!

hodgetwins are living proof that your research is flawed. They train fasted, do not eat breakfast, and wait at least 2 hours after a workout before they eat. Some of the videos are old, from when they first started doing IF over a year ago as it was new to them.

Breakfast Speeds Up Metabolism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03gjSG8md7s

FastingTwins: The Importance of Not Eating Postworkout!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmXLqmqBzeU

TMW: Energy While Intermittent Fasting Has Been Amazing
.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeViPIwDagY

Habits That Can Hinder or Stop Natural HGH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH7CPh8u2RA


.

That would be considered anecdotal and not through scientific method. Sorry.

But as for that HGH statement, I will definitely be looking into that, thank you!

AbsoluteNG

It's too late for me to analyze the whole post, but I will tell you something you should abandon immediately:

Training in a fasted state, it is a myth that it helps.

Studies have proven that those who have a meal in the morning prior to a workout burn more fat than those who have a meal afterwards. You're body NEEDS carbs to burn fat! Lowering your carbs only helps to a certain point at which going lower inhibits your fat loss.

Spread your meals out throughout your day. Go for 200g a carb a day, and eat carbs after a workout.

Lipogenisis (converting of carbs to fat) is inhibited after a workout, even showing no difference between low/high GI. Your body uses those carbs to restore glycogen stores that were depleted through exercise.

Stick to low GI carbs, high fiber, and don't overdue it. Remember, your body uses carbs to burn fat!

hodgetwins are living proof that your research is flawed. They train fasted, do not eat breakfast, and wait at least 2 hours after a workout before they eat. Some of the videos are old, from when they first started doing IF over a year ago as it was new to them.

Breakfast Speeds Up Metabolism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03gjSG8md7s

FastingTwins: The Importance of Not Eating Postworkout!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmXLqmqBzeU

TMW: Energy While Intermittent Fasting Has Been Amazing
.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeViPIwDagY

Habits That Can Hinder or Stop Natural HGH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH7CPh8u2RA


.

That would be considered anecdotal and not through scientific method. Sorry.

But as for that HGH statement, I will definitely be looking into that, thank you!

Okay, but I provided way more then what you did. You probably don't know those guys but they started off eating 5 or 6 meals a day and switched over to IF because of all the science they found to back up that type of eating style. You are under the assumption that you have to eat 5 times a day to maintain good energy levels. That's not how your body works and not what the IF research shows. Lets get some basic biology out of the way so maybe we can agree on something. Can we agree that your muscles and liver store your carbs? If we can agree on that bit of information then ask yourself this question. Why does it matter if you ate your macro carb content 24 hours before a workout or 3 hours before a workout? What happens to the carbs you ate 24 hours ago that changed right before a workout to decrease your energy levels? The carbs you ate 24 hours ago that got stored in your liver and muscle just vanished?


There's another biology fact that maybe we can agree on. Can we agree that when you eat carbs, your body floods with insulin? The theory is that every time you ingest food, the insulin spike causes you to be tired.



.

FASTFUELXXX

NOBODY MENTIONED IT BT 8P.M-1P.M IZ 17 HRS. DAT MEANS 7 HRS 2 EAT. U MAY WANNA START EATING @ 12 IF IT REALLY MATTERS 2 U

CristinaL1983

NOBODY MENTIONED IT BT 8P.M-1P.M IZ 17 HRS. DAT MEANS 7 HRS 2 EAT. U MAY WANNA START EATING @ 12 IF IT REALLY MATTERS 2 U

What the what?

myofibril

NOBODY MENTIONED IT BT 8P.M-1P.M IZ 17 HRS. DAT MEANS 7 HRS 2 EAT. U MAY WANNA START EATING @ 12 IF IT REALLY MATTERS 2 U

Actually that is a good point.

His eating window only adds up to 7 hours rather than 8 on the timings he has given. He is doing 17:7 rather than 18:6.

Personally my eating window is 0:24

Hendrix7

My passed background in training was strength training and heavy weight training, eating 7 times a day and high calories with focused on protein. I gained good progress in the passed but slow in losing body fat hence I am trying this method which totally going against my past experience.

Well it's not surprising you struggled to lose body fat if your calories were not low enough.

If you want to intermittent fast because it suits your daily lifestyle then fine but you are not going to get any significant benefits over a traditional eating pattern. Exercise induced increases in HGH have been shown to basically irrelevant (http://tinyurl.com/bbwvtcp) (and using the hodgetwins as debating material is just a strawman argument, I could find you 1000's other people who are bigger and more ripped than those 2 who don't intermittent fast so that really proves nothing).

Everything you are considering is really not necessary for results especially at over 25% body fat, you could get great results with a simple calorie deficit but if it suits you then go for it.

BarackMeLikeAHurricane

NOBODY MENTIONED IT BT 8P.M-1P.M IZ 17 HRS. DAT MEANS 7 HRS 2 EAT. U MAY WANNA START EATING @ 12 IF IT REALLY MATTERS 2 U

U WOT M8?

BarackMeLikeAHurricane

I always train fasted + BCAA's

http://www.leangains.com/2009/12/fasted-training-boosts-muscle-growth.html

goodtimezzzz

Hi Sergio! Congrats on making the shift to the most natural and instinctive way to eat train and live..IF!!
Some recommendations for you....Macros are NOT that important as overall calories but I would lower your protein and
bring up your carbs!! You are gonna be training hard...I also have learned to vary my calories daily and weekly..
so one day 1800 calls next 2800 following 2400 etc.. this was huge for me and I still practice this method. Also play with your fasting window...NOW pay attention here cause this is how I lost 20 pounds of blubber!!:) on some days Im just not that hungry so I fast for nearly 20 hours..on other days I fast for 18, 16 etc. I love IF the lean gains method etc. and if you have any questions on more specifics and dirty tricks contact me!! you are gonna look incredible my friend!!
Best ,
Kristian Rocco nyc

SideSteel

Studies have proven that those who have a meal in the morning prior to a workout burn more fat than those who have a meal afterwards.

Care to provide those studies?

Thanks!

neanderthin

Studies have proven that those who have a meal in the morning prior to a workout burn more fat than those who have a meal afterwards.

Care to provide those studies?

Thanks!

This relates to the effect insulin has on fat metabolism and anytime we consume a meal, stored fatty acids are spared in lieu of glucose for any ATP and some glycogen........ Basically were using that immediate ATP from the pre meal for energy for the workout and of course the studies are showing the effect on fat metabolism after the workout and after that post workout meal was consumed, so of course when were sedentary post workout and have eaten, fat metabolism is impeded at that time. What this doesn't take into account is, it's the total daily nutrient intake that dictates fat loss or gain. Semantics. Basically being in a fed state blunts fat oxidation.

chrisdavey

if training fasted, increases your performance do that.

if training fed, increases your performance do that.

Not really worth worrying about minute details of fat oxidation IMO unless you are looking to step on stage.

SideSteel

if training fasted, increases your performance do that.

if training fed, increases your performance do that.

Not really worth worrying about minute details of fat oxidation IMO unless you are looking to step on stage.

^^

AbsoluteNG

This relates to the effect insulin has on fat metabolism and anytime we consume a meal, stored fatty acids are spared in lieu of glucose for any ATP and some glycogen........ Basically were using that immediate ATP from the pre meal for energy for the workout and of course the studies are showing the effect on fat metabolism after the workout and after that post workout meal was consumed, so of course when were sedentary post workout and have eaten, fat metabolism is impeded at that time. What this doesn't take into account is, it's the total daily nutrient intake that dictates fat loss or gain. Semantics. Basically being in a fed state blunts fat oxidation.

In laymen turns, everything you said means that eating before a workout slows down the fat burning process.


.

StaticEntropy

I wouldn't low carb because it will affect your training performance. The idea of carb loading is nice, but it is difficult to determine just how many carbs to eat and most people screw this up, resulting in either spillover into fat or not getting enough to sustain your training. Keep it simple. If anything, low carb on rest days. But focusing on a Plain Jane calorie deficit should be your priority.

mmctaw

Actually research is showing that training fasted raises HGH level, and even more is showing that training either way there is minimal difference.

^^What he said. Also, see http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html

GODfidence

4.2 pounds of fat in 5 days?
No.
Good job on the weight loss but that's not even possible.

neanderthin

This relates to the effect insulin has on fat metabolism and anytime we consume a meal, stored fatty acids are spared in lieu of glucose for any ATP and some glycogen........ Basically were using that immediate ATP from the pre meal for energy for the workout and of course the studies are showing the effect on fat metabolism after the workout and after that post workout meal was consumed, so of course when were sedentary post workout and have eaten, fat metabolism is impeded at that time. What this doesn't take into account is, it's the total daily nutrient intake that dictates fat loss or gain. Semantics. Basically being in a fed state blunts fat oxidation.

In laymen turns, everything you said means that eating before a workout slows down the fat burning process.


.

Yup in sure does, anytime we eat. And the reason thinking about fat oxidation in a minute sense, is pointless.

PcShed

Hi everyone, thanks for the constructive feedback. Its interesting to see when someone goes against all basic principles of nutrition, everyone has their own version on what is right and what is not.
Everyone body acts different to different regimes both in training and nutrition, I know, because for the last 19 years I experimented most of them on myself and logged everything.

My current lifestyle suits what I am doing at the moment and I just wanted to see what can be achieved.
Willpower and determination can overcome a lot of barriers. Mental strength is my key quality. My friends who due to religion, once a year fast for a month only eating a night had great benefits like lower bod yfat, lean mass gains, lower blood pressure etc without any training!
Saturday 11th May 12.00pm will be the main day where we will see if this effort has resulted in faster body fat and lean mass gain versus normal nutrition and training and the tweaks can start on the nutrition and training.

Anyone who has IF experience, I would love to hear you thoughts and experience.
Many thanks
Sergio

bacitracin

It's too late for me to analyze the whole post, but I will tell you something you should abandon immediately:

Training in a fasted state, it is a myth that it helps.

Studies have proven that those who have a meal in the morning prior to a workout burn more fat than those who have a meal afterwards. You're body NEEDS carbs to burn fat! Lowering your carbs only helps to a certain point at which going lower inhibits your fat loss.

Spread your meals out throughout your day. Go for 200g a carb a day, and eat carbs after a workout.

Lipogenisis (converting of carbs to fat) is inhibited after a workout, even showing no difference between low/high GI. Your body uses those carbs to restore glycogen stores that were depleted through exercise.

Stick to low GI carbs, high fiber, and don't overdue it. Remember, your body uses carbs to burn fat!

Almost everything you stated there is not actually true in reality.

Ipalavra

Studies have proven that those who have a meal in the morning prior to a workout burn more fat than those who have a meal afterwards.

Care to provide those studies?

Thanks!

http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article folder/fasting.html

I guess what I forgot to mention was that eating before a workout is beneficial in the longer term for fat metabolism as shown in this study. This study didn't measure fat metabolism during exercise, but rather the effects at 12 and 24 after the exercise.

AbsoluteNG

Studies have proven that those who have a meal in the morning prior to a workout burn more fat than those who have a meal afterwards.

Care to provide those studies?

Thanks!

http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article folder/fasting.html

I guess what I forgot to mention was that eating before a workout is beneficial in the longer term for fat metabolism as shown in this study. This study didn't measure fat metabolism during exercise, but rather the effects at 12 and 24 after the exercise.

Interesting study but I would have liked them to have measured the fat burning during the exercise routine. Since they waited 12 hours after a workout, that raises questions. The main question I'd like an answer to is, how much of a role did eating after a workout hamper HGH proteins due to the release of insulin if any.

Edit: Maybe a better conclusion for this study would be not to eat immediately post workout.


.

BBryans07

Hi! I tried IF for a couple weeks, but in the end, just wound up back in my old habits. It's tough to maintain if you have an active social life-- drinks with friends at 9pm, early breakfast with the folks, etc. I realized I was planning my entire life around this fasting schedule...or staying at home and missing out on things I shouldn't have. I will say this however-- that first meal after the 16-hour fast tastes SO GOOD. If you don't do it for the weight loss, then do it for the benefit of training yourself to appreciate, savor, and relish the taste of food. I don't think IF is harmful if done properly and I think some people benefit from the eating schedule greatly. I'm just not one of them.

SideSteel

Studies have proven that those who have a meal in the morning prior to a workout burn more fat than those who have a meal afterwards.

Care to provide those studies?

Thanks!

http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article folder/fasting.html

I guess what I forgot to mention was that eating before a workout is beneficial in the longer term for fat metabolism as shown in this study. This study didn't measure fat metabolism during exercise, but rather the effects at 12 and 24 after the exercise.

Thanks for sharing this.

If I'm reading this correctly though, the group with the higher energy expenditure also had a considerably higher food intake.

EDIT: ^^ That's incorrect, my bad

Ipalavra

Studies have proven that those who have a meal in the morning prior to a workout burn more fat than those who have a meal afterwards.

Care to provide those studies?

Thanks!

http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article folder/fasting.html

I guess what I forgot to mention was that eating before a workout is beneficial in the longer term for fat metabolism as shown in this study. This study didn't measure fat metabolism during exercise, but rather the effects at 12 and 24 after the exercise.

Interesting study but I would have liked them to have measured the fat burning during the exercise routine. Since they waited 12 hours after a workout, that raises questions. The main question I'd like an answer to is, how much of a role did eating after a workout hamper HGH proteins due to the release of insulin if any.

Edit: Maybe a better conclusion for this study would be not to eat immediately post workout.


.

Yes, exactly, which leads me to the question studies like that raise to myself which is what the OVERALL fat metabolism. Studies continue to show us fat metabolism here and there from different methods, but which methods provide the best net fat metabolism. Does this study's method's of longer term fat metabolism outweigh the benefits of the fasted exercise's elevated fat metabolism during exercise? Stuff like that is what need to be answered.

With that said, I'm personally in more favor of methods that are going to affect my body over longer periods of time and when resting, rather than just during (i.e. HIIT)

CoachJake83

I've been using Intermittent Fasting with incredible success for the last 12 months. I won't pretend to be an expert on nutrition or meal frequency, but that's something I don't think anyone can claim. What I can offer is my own personal experience and knowledge.

When it comes to Intermittent Fasting you want to avoid low carbing, they mix like oil and water. I have my own feelings of the uselessness of low carbing but that's another story. As far as combining low carb and IF, don't do it, trust me on that.

I've gotten my body fat to stage competition levels between 4-5% eating upwards of 60% of my calories from carbs.

When it comes to macronutrient profiles I would highly suggest something between .8-1g of protein per lb of body weight, .25-.3g of fat per lb of body weight, and fill the rest of your calories with carbs. Find your -20% deficit amount using harris benedict.

Naturally for optimal fat loss results regardless of meal frequency you want to maintain high amounts of resistance training, with minimal cardio (perhaps 20 min light cardio after your daily workout is fine or on occasion if you prefer, but not necessary) Not to be confused with HIIT training of course.

Training fasted does have a lot of benefits, but it's futile to argue what is better, fasted or non fasted training. I know personally from my own results over the last year that fasted training is simply incredible. Muscles don't lose any strength until 36+ hours of fasting, so people that say they "need to eat" before a workout, it's all in their heads. (But placebo is a POWERFUL thing)

I suggest 30 minutes prior to training consuming a caffeinated pre workout to optimize energy and fat loss, and consuming 10g BCAA's 5-10 min prior to training as well.

I've added 15lbs of solid muscle to my frame using purely IF, staying very lean, and I've also used it to get to low body fat levels in the 4-5% range. This comes after 2 years experience of NOT training fasted or using IF and I gotta tell ya, IF is very powerful if used consistently and correctly.

My protocol is eating between 1-9pm. I take 1-2 scoops of C4 at 11:30, 10g BCAA (xtend scviation) at 11:55am, and hit my workout full force at 12pm. Sometimes afterwards I'll take a jog for 15-20 minutes just to get outside, cause I workout from my living room.

Sometimes I don't start eating until 1:30 or as late as 3pm.

Bottom line: IF works "very" well. Fasted training is kick *kitten* (But largely preference), and at the end of the day it's most important to find what works for you. If you're seeing results, stick with it.

Muscles do not go catabolic as fast as the supplement industry tries to scare you into believing, and you don't need the ghastly amounts of protein they try to shove down your throat either. If I can gain 15lbs (while lowering body fat mind you) at .8-1g of protein daily, you can too.

SideSteel

Studies have proven that those who have a meal in the morning prior to a workout burn more fat than those who have a meal afterwards.

Care to provide those studies?

Thanks!

http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article folder/fasting.html

I guess what I forgot to mention was that eating before a workout is beneficial in the longer term for fat metabolism as shown in this study. This study didn't measure fat metabolism during exercise, but rather the effects at 12 and 24 after the exercise.

Interesting study but I would have liked them to have measured the fat burning during the exercise routine. Since they waited 12 hours after a workout, that raises questions. The main question I'd like an answer to is, how much of a role did eating after a workout hamper HGH proteins due to the release of insulin if any.

Edit: Maybe a better conclusion for this study would be not to eat immediately post workout.


.

Yes, exactly, which leads me to the question studies like that raise to myself which is what the OVERALL fat metabolism. Studies continue to show us fat metabolism here and there from different methods, but which methods provide the best net fat metabolism. Does this study's method's of longer term fat metabolism outweigh the benefits of the fasted exercise fat metabolism? Stuff like that is what need to be answered.

^ And that I absolutely agree with. Until we can show a significant difference in net fat oxidation over long periods of time in relevant circumstances then the acute stuff isn't all that applicable.

What I mean is, after months of a given application, did a specific group lose more total body fat? Because you can look at fat burned during a workout or you can look at EPOC or what have you, but if the end result after long periods doesn't show a marked advantage for a given method that we can't really make strong conclusions about it, IMO.