cardio vs. weights

mannyfresh79

Hello! I am 33 yo Male. I am currently 162 lbs with average build and shape.

I have been lifting weights consistently for the past 3 months and went from 155lbs to 162lbs. Initially I wanted to build muscle mass and gain to about 175lbs (gain of 13 lbs) so I left out cardio. But I noticed that I had a bit of a gut. So I started doing some HIIT about three weeks ago (to lose fat).

I lift weights about 5x-7x a week and now I'm also doing HIIT cardio about 3x-5x a week. I do weights in the morning and HIIT cardio in the evening.

I had a calorie deficit yesterday according to MFP (due to my cardio) and this morning my lifting was more difficult than usual. I was able to complete my routine (I keep track of my progress and increase weights every week), but I had to take more breaks than usual. This thought occurred to me this morning: am I "undoing" my muscle gains with my cardio routines? Meaning, is the cardio being counter productive to my muscle gains? After this morning, my brain says yes...

If so, what is the ideal # of cardio days for someone with my goals?

JenMc14

Cardio can be counter productive to muscle gain because it burns calories that you need to build muscle. So, if you're doing cardio, you need to eat more. You will gain fat along with the muscle. It is very, very hard to both lose fat and gain muscle at the same time, and it ends with progress on both being inefficient and slow. It is much easier to do bulk/cut cycles. So, where you're at now, you have to ask yourself this: Is the muscle gain worth the gut and/or is losing the gut worth the loss in strength? Doing cardio and eating at a deficit for one day shouldn't have really affected you a lot, there may be other factors that played into it. But, if you can live with the gut, keep going on your bulk. If you can't. Keep lifting heavy, but cut back your calories. You can try a slow cut by eating at maintenance or just under, or go full on cut.

jennifershoo

You're overtraining! That's counterproductive. Also, if you want to gain 15 pounds of muscles, you need to eat at a calorie surplus, not a deficit. I wouldn't do more than 3x 30 min of cardio per week. Actually, it's not even necessary. You can't lose a lot of fat and build muscles at the same time. Bodybuilders bulk for several months (gain muscles by lifting really heavy, low reps, eating at a surplus) and then they do a "cut" (still lifting, but eating at a small deficit to lose the fat whilst minimizing the muscle loss).

jzammetti

I don know how much you eat, but I think you said you were at a calorie deficit for the day due to cardio...does that mean you showed a negative net calories or the day? If so, you are not eating enough.

Also, you need rest days. Heavy lifting is fine 3 days a week with at least 2 rest days and you can do cardio the other two days. Muscles repair themselves during your rest time and that is when the magic happens!

grantdumas7

Get on a good lifting program and stick to it for at least 3 months. You state you are going to the gym 5-7 days a week which suggest you are not on any lifting program. HIIT cardio is fine to keep your fat gains in check but 3x and even worse 5x per week may be too much. It might be cutting into your recovery. Since you want to gain you want to be at a calorie surplus. The calorie calculator on MFP to gain is too low if you want to gain. I actually lost a little weight when I was trying to gain .5LBs per week. For calorie determination use the Katch mcardle or the Harris Benedict calculator.

aakaakaak

Don't judge a plan on a single bad lifting day.

Do some research on bulk/cut cycles.

DavPul

Initially I wanted to build muscle mass and gain to about 175lbs (gain of 13 lbs) so I left out cardio. But I noticed that I had a bit of a gut. So I started doing some HIIT about three weeks ago (to lose fat).

I lift weights about 5x-7x a week and now I'm also doing HIIT cardio about 3x-5x a week. I do weights in the morning and HIIT cardio in the evening.

Depends on how important the bulking is to you. If you really want to hit your 175 number, I'd recommend cutting back the cardio (to zero, preferably) while also making sure you aren't eating too many calories. If you think you're gaining too much fat along with your muscle, adjust your diet accordingly.

If you don't mind taking a longer time to hit the 175 number, then you can keep doing some cardio. Even so, 3x per week should handle your business.

My questions is: Why are you lifting 5-7x per week? Is this some program you made up yourself? Are you using a program at all or just winging it? I would address this before anything else.

mannyfresh79

Thank you for the responses everyone. I probably should've clarified on the routine. I am following a 5-day workout routine. It's supposed to be followed with 2 days rest. Some weeks I actually take 2 days off, other weeks, I just start the routine over with no rest. One would think it's not enough rest, but I only workout each muscle group once (more/less) and I've been steadily increasing my weights over the past 3 months. So I don't think this is an issue for me presently. The routine can be found here: (http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/24-doug---s-5-day-high-definition-routine.html)

I realize that there's a discrepancy with my goals (gaining weight) and my actual caloric intake (deficit). This is because I went back and forth on gaining/losing weight and after this morning, I know for a fact that I do NOT want to lose any weight at this point. I am trying to avoid muscle gain/fat loss topics as those get endless and I believe it's much simpler to do one or the other.

What would happen if I followed MFP on a road to gaining 13lbs and kept weight training 5x and cardio 3x a week? Would this be considered over-training or counter-productive?

DavPul

What would happen if I followed MFP on a road to gaining 13lbs and kept weight training 5x and cardio 3x a week? Would this be considered over-training or counter-productive?

I'm not sure if I fully understand your statement but do NOT use MFP as a guide to gaining weight. I love MFP, but only as a weight loss tool. If you're setting your profile up to gain weight and set it for a 1lb a week or whatever, that's going to be .9 pounds of fat. Muscle grows a much slower rate than that. Try eating 300 cals (preferably of protein)above maintenance per day. You'll gain mass and strength slower but it should keep fat gains at a minimum

mannyfresh79

I love MFP, but only as a weight loss tool. If you're setting your profile up to gain weight and set it for a 1lb a week or whatever, that's going to be .9 pounds of fat. Muscle grows a much slower rate than that. Try eating 300 cals (preferably of protein)above maintenance per day. You'll gain mass and strength slower but it should keep fat gains at a minimum

Thank you DavPul. Those were my thoughts exactly. I think MFP is great for losing weight, but for gaining it doesn't factor in carbs, protein, sugars, etc...

I agree with you and I think I will use MFP as an awareness tool of what I'm eating instead.

grantdumas7

I love MFP, but only as a weight loss tool. If you're setting your profile up to gain weight and set it for a 1lb a week or whatever, that's going to be .9 pounds of fat. Muscle grows a much slower rate than that. Try eating 300 cals (preferably of protein)above maintenance per day. You'll gain mass and strength slower but it should keep fat gains at a minimum

Thank you DavPul. Those were my thoughts exactly. I think MFP is great for losing weight, but for gaining it doesn't factor in carbs, protein, sugars, etc...

I agree with you and I think I will use MFP as an awareness tool of what I'm eating instead.

If you didn't know you can adjust the protein, carb and fats to the percentages you like. Like I stated earlier use the Harris Benedict or Katch-Mcadle to get a better idea of your calorie needs.
Regarding your routine you may want to do one that is geared more for size. I know most routines will work for a majority some work better than others. Look at doing a upper/lower split. This will hit each muscle group 2x per. week and allow 3 days of recovery. Most people who are past the beginners stage get great results hitting each muscle group twice per week. Once per week is not often enough.

JenMc14

I love MFP, but only as a weight loss tool. If you're setting your profile up to gain weight and set it for a 1lb a week or whatever, that's going to be .9 pounds of fat. Muscle grows a much slower rate than that. Try eating 300 cals (preferably of protein)above maintenance per day. You'll gain mass and strength slower but it should keep fat gains at a minimum

Thank you DavPul. Those were my thoughts exactly. I think MFP is great for losing weight, but for gaining it doesn't factor in carbs, protein, sugars, etc...

I agree with you and I think I will use MFP as an awareness tool of what I'm eating instead.

You can figure out your TDEE using one of several online calculators. Then, add 15-20% to that. I have manually set my goals at MFP. You can put your target number in and adjust your macros to what suits you. When you log your exercise, you can enter it manually with 1 as the calorie burn so MFP doesn't tell you to eat all those back.

mannyfresh79

Whoa! You guys just blew my mind. I had no idea about adjusting each of those items (fat, protein, etc). That makes more sense. Thanks grantdumas7 and jenmc14. Will certainly research the topics mentioned. Have you guys used MFP to put on pounds?

grantdumas7

Whoa! You guys just blew my mind. I had no idea about adjusting each of those items (fat, protein, etc). That makes more sense. Thanks grantdumas7 and jenmc14. Will certainly research the topics mentioned. Have you guys used MFP to put on pounds?

I actually lost a little on MFP when I was trying to gain. My calorie goal according to MFP without exercise is 2305. I am going to up it about 2800 to 2900 calories and weigh myself again in a week. If I gain about .5 LBS then I will stick to that.

phjorg1

Thank you for the responses everyone. I probably should've clarified on the routine. I am following a 5-day workout routine. It's supposed to be followed with 2 days rest. Some weeks I actually take 2 days off, other weeks, I just start the routine over with no rest. One would think it's not enough rest, but I only workout each muscle group once (more/less) and I've been steadily increasing my weights over the past 3 months. So I don't think this is an issue for me presently. The routine can be found here: (http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/24-doug---s-5-day-high-definition-routine.html)

I realize that there's a discrepancy with my goals (gaining weight) and my actual caloric intake (deficit). This is because I went back and forth on gaining/losing weight and after this morning, I know for a fact that I do NOT want to lose any weight at this point. I am trying to avoid muscle gain/fat loss topics as those get endless and I believe it's much simpler to do one or the other.

What would happen if I followed MFP on a road to gaining 13lbs and kept weight training 5x and cardio 3x a week? Would this be considered over-training or counter-productive?

this is a suboptimal routine

1) no strength training
2) mostly isolation exercises
3) not enough volume. Each muscle group only once per week. should be 2-3 times per week.

JenMc14

I have not used MFP while bulking, that what last Christmas was for. I'm still working on cutting from my holiday fueled gain. If I get myself back to a place I'm more comfortable, I may attempt another, non-junk fueled bulk and use MFP to track, but probably calculate my needs on fat2fit or fitness frog.

medic2038

Whoa! You guys just blew my mind. I had no idea about adjusting each of those items (fat, protein, etc). That makes more sense. Thanks grantdumas7 and jenmc14. Will certainly research the topics mentioned. Have you guys used MFP to put on pounds?

You can STILL use MFP for calorie tracking, just don't go by their preset goals.

Some people go with a hard number surplus (IE 250-500+) and some go with a percentage over maintenance (+10% or whatever).
You should also be eating OVER lbm in protein, usually people bulk at 1.5-2g/lb LBM.
There's a lot of variants out there, "there's many ways to skin a cat".

About rest:
Although you might not "feel" it, you definitely need some downtime. People that do 4-5x days are usually doing iso exercises. Everyone I know that does compounds it's usually 3x.

mannyfresh79

this is a suboptimal routine

1) no strength training
2) mostly isolation exercises
3) not enough volume. Each muscle group only once per week. should be 2-3 times per week.

Do you have any suggestions on specific workout routines?

melindasuefritz

cardio helps u lose weight
weights is strengthening and dont help u lose weight but tones

dixiewhiskey

The ideal number is what works for your body. Don't let someone on the internet tell you how many times to workout.. listen to your own body. I've done perfectly fine doing cardio 5+ per week, same with strength training.. whereas others here may only do cardio 2x a week and strength 3x per week.

If your body is showing signs that you are fatigued, then rest.

DavPul

The ideal number is what works for your body. Don't let someone on the internet tell you how many times to workout.. listen to your own body. I've done perfectly fine doing cardio 5+ per week, same with strength training.. whereas others here may only do cardio 2x a week and strength 3x per week.

If your body is showing signs that you are fatigued, then rest.

That's perfectly fine for your goals. But what he's doing is in direct opposition of his stated goals. So that leaves him with three options. Change his routine, change his goals, or not ask us for advice if he's just going to listen to his body