"Nutritious" 1200 calories?

aalhasan

So I've been reading about this thing called "Starvation mode".
How true is it?
I'm a 19yo 222 pound 5'8 ft. Male. My goal is 180-190 pounds in 15 weeks.
I can easily exercise for an hour (leisure biking/brisk) while keeping the 1200 calories intake. Is that healthy?
Note that the 1200 calories are coming from fruits/vegs + fish/chicken breast protein + healthy fats.
Any help will be appreciated!

Thanks.

psuLemon

If you do that plan, you are going to lose a lot of muscle. Even if you only workout 3 days a week, you would be better off eating around 2400 calories... yes double what you should. Non active men need 1500-1800 calories, and once you become more active, you need more calories. At a minimum, I would suggest 2000 calories. I can tell you from personal experience, I saw much greater results at 2600 calories than I did at 1800. You are young, so enjoy a faster metabolism.

FYI, I am 5'11, 190, 30 yrs old, desk job and workout 1 hr 6 days a week, I eat 2500 calories to lose 1lb per week.

toutmonpossible

Please look up some of the threads on the myth of starvation mode. You're eating a healthy diet, you're exercising an hour, which is great, but not what an elite athlete would be putting in. So long as you can sustain it, you should be fine. I can't comment on the reasonableness of your goal, but if you keep at it you will lose the weight.

amyljl77

People get really worked up about this issue on MFP, I've noticed. Here's my take: As long as it's working for you, you feel good and you're not constantly hungry, then I don't see a problem. My calorie goal has always been 1200. I've lost 30 lbs since the middle of January (two weeks of that I was laid up with the flu). I feel awesome, have consistently lost weight and I'm rarely really hungry. I do eat back my exercise calories but my NET is usually always around or under 1200. The TDEE people keep telling me I will plateau but it hasn't happened yet. I also make smart food choices and eat lots of veggies, fruit and protein (hard boiled eggs are my best friend) but if you work out enough there is room for treats (I had some McD fries yesterday and eat a peice of chocolate almost everyday).
Now, if you are on 1200 and you feel like crap and are miserable and starving, then by all means you should probably up your calories. Just don't reject it on principle without seeing if it works for you first!

TitaniaEcks

you would be better off eating around 2400 calories... yes double what you should.

That advice only applies to someone who is trying to gain muscle while maintaining or increasing weight. If you eat 2400 calories a day, you WILL gain weight - unless you're spending 8 hours a day at the gym, lol. If you take in 1200 calories a day and ~80-90% of them come from protein, and you chase that down with weight/resistance training, you will lose weight while not losing any significant muscle. The trick is to not decrease your protein intake so you won't lose muscle. Just cut out the calories from the other sources (carbs, fat, alcohol) and increase your protein.

1200 calories a day is not starvation. Furthermore, if you stilt your calorie intake by eating normally (~2000 calories) once or twice a week, your metabolism will not slow down and your body won't go into starvation mode.

psuLemon

you would be better off eating around 2400 calories... yes double what you should.

That advice only applies to someone who is trying to gain muscle while maintaining or increasing weight. If you eat 2400 calories a day, you WILL gain weight - unless you're spending 8 hours a day at the gym, lol. If you take in 1200 calories a day and ~80-90% of them come from protein, and you chase that down with weight/resistance training, you will lose weight while not losing any significant muscle. The trick is to not decrease your protein intake so you won't lose muscle. Just cut out the calories from the other sources (carbs, fat, alcohol) and increase your protein.

1200 calories a day is not starvation. Furthermore, if you stilt your calorie intake by eating normally (~2000 calories) once or twice a week, your metabolism will not slow down and your body won't go into starvation mode.

First off, the OP is a male, not a women. His caloric needs are much higher than a work due to a large amount of muscle. Also, a man will NOT bulk at 2400 calories, otherwise I would be gaining tons of muscle and it's not happening since I am losing weight. This guy is younger and heavier than me. If he workouts an hour a day, he will burn more calories than me as well... The majority of women I know eat 1700-2100 calories. If you want to research, here are over 500 post of women who eat over 1800 calories. Many of them are losing weight, not adding muscle. It takes a lot of calories to add muscle. For me, it would be close to 3250 a day in order to create a 1/2 lb per week gain (which 10-20% would be fat growth). Most women alone would need 2200-2600 to achieve similar results except 50% of that would be fat.


http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/506349-women-who-eat-more-than-1800-calories-a-day

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/524791-women-who-eat-more-than-1800-calories-a-day?hl=women+who+eat+1800+calories

TitaniaEcks

First off, the OP is a male, not a women. His caloric needs are much higher than a work due to a large amount of muscle. Also, a man will NOT bulk at 2400 calories, otherwise I would be gaining tons of muscle and it's not happening since I am losing weight. This guy is younger and heavier than me. If he workouts an hour a day, he will burn more calories than me as well... The majority of women I know eat 1700-2100 calories. If you want to research, here are over 500 post of women who eat over 1800 calories. Many of them are losing weight, not adding muscle. It takes a lot of calories to add muscle. For me, it would be close to 3250 a day in order to create a 1/2 lb per week gain (which 10-20% would be fat growth). Most women alone would need 2200-2600 to achieve similar results except 50% of that would be fat.

I'm aware that the OP is male. But take into consideration that he is 5'8" (a mere 1/2 inch taller than me) and is not attempting to gain muscle, just lose fat. At his weight he probably has more than enough muscle under the fat, and so all he needs is adequate protein intake to maintain the muscle he has.

aalhasan

I understand from your replies that if I keep my NET calorie intake at 1300-1500 by eating back what I exercise I'll be safe?
And yes my diet is very high in protein. I eat a lot of seafood (salmon/tilapia) at least 3-4 times a week for lunch.
I've also read that your body won't go into starvation mode if it gets the essential nutrients, regardless of the calorie intake.
Everything I eat is natural so I'm assuming the 1300 will cover the nutrients provided by a "normal" 2000 calories diet.

ndj1979

First, you cannot be in starvation mode if you are eating 1200 calories a day, it is impossible...

Starvation mode starts to occur when you eat nothing for 72 hours and even then the affects are minimal. Eventually, if you starve yourself enough, then your body will turn to muscle for energy which is really bad. When you think Starvation Mode think about starving kids in Africa, that is true starvation mode....

You won't go into starvation mode from skipping breakfast, or missing snack five out of six or any of that other BS that some people perpetuate on the internet or threads on here...

Also, do not fall prey to the myth that meal timing has something to do with metabolism..there Is zero correlation between the two.

As for your diet plan, if you really want to give it a try then try it for four to six weeks and see how it works for you ..if you lose weight then great, keep doing it...

if you are not sure about 1200 then try doing 1500 and see how that works. You really have to figure out what works for your body ..

Are you exercising? If yes, then make sure that your net 12000...example if you burn 500 cals running make sure that you eat 1700, thus netting 1200 for that day.

psuLemon

First off, the OP is a male, not a women. His caloric needs are much higher than a work due to a large amount of muscle. Also, a man will NOT bulk at 2400 calories, otherwise I would be gaining tons of muscle and it's not happening since I am losing weight. This guy is younger and heavier than me. If he workouts an hour a day, he will burn more calories than me as well... The majority of women I know eat 1700-2100 calories. If you want to research, here are over 500 post of women who eat over 1800 calories. Many of them are losing weight, not adding muscle. It takes a lot of calories to add muscle. For me, it would be close to 3250 a day in order to create a 1/2 lb per week gain (which 10-20% would be fat growth). Most women alone would need 2200-2600 to achieve similar results except 50% of that would be fat.

I'm aware that the OP is male. But take into consideration that he is 5'8" (a mere 1/2 inch taller than me) and is not attempting to gain muscle, just lose fat. At his weight he probably has more than enough muscle under the fat, and so all he needs is adequate protein intake to maintain the muscle he has.

So lets take this into consideration. Based on the harris benedict formula and his stats, his estimated basal metabolic rate is 2183 (number of calories he would burn if he slept 24 hours). Than you factor in lifestyle and activity. Below is a list of possible TDEE's

Sedentary - 2183 * 1.2 = 2619
Light active - 2183 * 1.375 = 3001
Moderately Active - 2183 * 1.55 = 3383


So as long as the OP doesn't have any metabolic issues or past history of several calorie restrict, it's highly unlikely to gain any new lean body mass during his journey. Eating too little will just increase the chances of catabolizing his lean body mass causing him the need to lose even more weight. My wife is 5'2, 30 years old, 150 and eats 1500 calories a day. Don't you think a man, 2x her size about needs more calories?

JoanB5

Starvation mode I wouldn't worry so much about if you have a lot of excess fat to lose and just want to lose weight. HOWEVER, I'd recommend going with the recommended goal of one pound of weight loss per week. It's sustainable for the long haul and teaches you to eat for your size. Let MFP calculate it for you and go with it. Eat back your exercise calories. Mentally over time you'll learn how to eat well, treat your body well, and be able to sustain good eating habits even after the "diet" phase is over. Mine was "over" a month ago, but I still want to work on body fat...and I got to increase calories to do it as I am more active now, have stronger muscles, and am building more muscle.

psuLemon

I understand from your replies that if I keep my NET calorie intake at 1300-1500 by eating back what I exercise I'll be safe?
And yes my diet is very high in protein. I eat a lot of seafood (salmon/tilapia) at least 3-4 times a week for lunch.
I've also read that your body won't go into starvation mode if it gets the essential nutrients, regardless of the calorie intake.
Everything I eat is natural so I'm assuming the 1300 will cover the nutrients provided by a "normal" 2000 calories diet.

keep in mind that normal diet is an average for everybody. So it's a skewed scale.

BTW, what are you goals? Just weight loss or do you want abs or definition at one point?

IronPlayground

First off, the OP is a male, not a women. His caloric needs are much higher than a work due to a large amount of muscle. Also, a man will NOT bulk at 2400 calories, otherwise I would be gaining tons of muscle and it's not happening since I am losing weight. This guy is younger and heavier than me. If he workouts an hour a day, he will burn more calories than me as well... The majority of women I know eat 1700-2100 calories. If you want to research, here are over 500 post of women who eat over 1800 calories. Many of them are losing weight, not adding muscle. It takes a lot of calories to add muscle. For me, it would be close to 3250 a day in order to create a 1/2 lb per week gain (which 10-20% would be fat growth). Most women alone would need 2200-2600 to achieve similar results except 50% of that would be fat.

I'm aware that the OP is male. But take into consideration that he is 5'8" (a mere 1/2 inch taller than me) and is not attempting to gain muscle, just lose fat. At his weight he probably has more than enough muscle under the fat, and so all he needs is adequate protein intake to maintain the muscle he has.

I'm 5'8" 210 lbs and 39 years old. I'm losing on 2200/day.

The guy isn't eating enough!

aalhasan

My only concern for now is weight loss.

IronPlayground

My only concern for now is weight loss.

Weight loss or fat loss? There is a difference.

aalhasan

My only concern for now is weight loss.

Weight loss or fat loss? There is a difference.

Fat loss.

TitaniaEcks

So lets take this into consideration. Based on the harris benedict formula and his stats, his estimated basal metabolic rate is 2183 (number of calories he would burn if he slept 24 hours). Than you factor in lifestyle and activity. Below is a list of possible TDEE's

Sedentary - 2183 * 1.2 = 2619
Light active - 2183 * 1.375 = 3001
Moderately Active - 2183 * 1.55 = 3383


So as long as the OP doesn't have any metabolic issues or past history of several calorie restrict, it's highly unlikely to gain any new lean body mass during his journey. Eating too little will just increase the chances of catabolizing his lean body mass causing him the need to lose even more weight. My wife is 5'2, 30 years old, 150 and eats 1500 calories a day. Don't you think a man, 2x her size about needs more calories?

I just checked the metabolism calculators (WebMD, etc.), and most of them are giving me a daily calorie expenditure of ~3000 calories for his age, height, weight and proposed activity level (moderate). As long as the protein intake is adequate and he keeps his carbs low, his body will burn mostly fat for fuel. If he takes in 1500 calories a day six days a week and 3000 one day a week, and since a pound of fat is ~3500 calories, he will lose roughly 2.5 lbs a week.

Please see this link for the effects of carb-cutting on muscle mass: http://charm.cs.uiuc.edu/users/jyelon/lowcarb.med/topic2.html

IronPlayground

My only concern for now is weight loss.

Weight loss or fat loss? There is a difference.

Fat loss.

Then I'd suggest eating at a 20% deficit from your TDEE and incorporate weight training into your routine. Right now, with how your diet and exercise is set up, you are losing both fat and muscle. I'm sure that's not your intended result.

vorgas

I see a lot of posts here about the 'myths' of starvation mode, etc, etc.

And yes, everybody is a little bit different. However, there was a study done that went into starvation in a detailed way. It's the Minnesota Starvation Experiment which you can read about at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Starvation_Experiment

Plenty of other sites dissect the beejezzers out of that thing but here's the highlight: The maintenance calorie intake was 3200 cals. The starvation cals was 24 weeks at 1600 cals.

So ask yourself a simple question: is 1200 cals less than 1600 cals?

Are you prepared to submit to regular checkups by a doctor in order to make sure you aren't suffering the same effect as these guys were? How will you check your cortisol levels, your respiration rate, blood temperature, anti-body production, etc, etc, etc. Is the risk of this sort of damage worth the extreme weight loss you are pursuing?

Do you want to listen to people who say things that sound good or do you want to listen to the results of doctors who performed a highly controlled study into this very subject?

Choice is yours.

mustgetmuscles1

I agree with the others that you need to be eating much more than 1200. If you want to lose "fat" and not just weight, you will need to have a moderate calorie deficit, get enough protein and do resistance training. It does not have to be weight lifting but some form of full body strength training.

Starvation mode, metabolic adaptation, metabolic damage. These are all different things but most people are usually talking about some form of metabolic slowdown when they use these terms. This slower metabolism is almost always caused by severe dieting and/or excessive workouts. Eat as much as you can to lose body fat at a healthy rate. At your height weight sex age 1200 would be severe dieting.

aalhasan

Thank you all!
I'll try to stick to 1800-2000 NET.
I was wondering where the additional calories should be coming from? I find my diet to be pretty balanced.
I know that I should stay away from carbs and sugar.
Any advices?

Thanks again!

ironanimal

Thank you all!
I'll try to stick to 1800-2000 NET.
I was wondering where the additional calories should be coming from? I find my diet to be pretty balanced.
I know that I should stay away from carbs and sugar.
Any advices?

Thanks again!

Fruit, veg, meat n dairy. Oh, and nuts sometimes.

mustgetmuscles1

Thank you all!
I'll try to stick to 1800-2000 NET.
I was wondering where the additional calories should be coming from? I find my diet to be pretty balanced.
I know that I should stay away from carbs and sugar.
Any advices?

Thanks again!

Unless you have some medical issue there is nothing wrong with carbs and sugar if you can fit them into your calorie goal and your other nutritional needs are being met.

sexymuffintop

you would be better off eating around 2400 calories... yes double what you should.

That advice only applies to someone who is trying to gain muscle while maintaining or increasing weight. If you eat 2400 calories a day, you WILL gain weight - unless you're spending 8 hours a day at the gym, lol. If you take in 1200 calories a day and ~80-90% of them come from protein, and you chase that down with weight/resistance training, you will lose weight while not losing any significant muscle. The trick is to not decrease your protein intake so you won't lose muscle. Just cut out the calories from the other sources (carbs, fat, alcohol) and increase your protein.

1200 calories a day is not starvation. Furthermore, if you stilt your calorie intake by eating normally (~2000 calories) once or twice a week, your metabolism will not slow down and your body won't go into starvation mode.

I think your post is a bit of a generalisation. I burn between 2300-2700 cals a day and I can promise you I do not spend 8 hours in the gym. I am a moderately active, 5ft 4 female. You cannot say someone will definitely gain on 2400. There are too many variables IMO. I certainly don't think the OP would gain on 2400 unless he is totally sedentary which we know he isn't.

LavenderBouquet

While your diet is most definitely nutritious, you still need to provide ample macronutrients and calories for your body to work with, you could potentially lose muscle mass or prevent muscle building eating at such a deficit. I'm not sure what to make of the whole "starvation mode" that frequents the forums, but I wouldn't recommend eating so low for a person of your statistics. Just include some healthy fats from nuts, seeds, olive oil :flowerforyou:

twinketta

You only joined a couple of days ago....so why not try with the 1200 cals a day and eat back your exercise calories?

Give it a week of doing this and see how you feel. If you feel that you are hungry then increase your calories a little?

Try to do some strength training at the beginning, I am only saying this because you will find that you lose weight on the 1200 cals a day and you will end up with loose skin, which, is hard to get rid of later down the line.

It is all about eating at a deficit to lose fat/weight but exercise to keep muscle and tone.

You will find what works for you, just give it time and dedication

Sarauk2sf

you would be better off eating around 2400 calories... yes double what you should.

That advice only applies to someone who is trying to gain muscle while maintaining or increasing weight. If you eat 2400 calories a day, you WILL gain weight - unless you're spending 8 hours a day at the gym, lol. If you take in 1200 calories a day and ~80-90% of them come from protein, and you chase that down with weight/resistance training, you will lose weight while not losing any significant muscle. The trick is to not decrease your protein intake so you won't lose muscle. Just cut out the calories from the other sources (carbs, fat, alcohol) and increase your protein.

1200 calories a day is not starvation. Furthermore, if you stilt your calorie intake by eating normally (~2000 calories) once or twice a week, your metabolism will not slow down and your body won't go into starvation mode.

You are missing a whole slew of other issues - including that fact that on 1,200 calories, his fats will undoubtedly be low. Low fats = low testosterone = less anabolic impact at the gym and libido issues. Low fats also = bad body functions/health.

Also, if you are effectively not eating anything else, not all the protein will go to protein synthesis but will be used to convert to glucose via gluconeogenesis. So it pretty much defeats the purpose of not eating anything except protein.

ETA: it's funny that you make that sweeping generalization - most guys on here that I know cut on 2,400 calories so I have no idea where you get the idea that 2,400 will make him gain weight based on his stats.

Sarauk2sf

Thank you all!
I'll try to stick to 1800-2000 NET.
I was wondering where the additional calories should be coming from? I find my diet to be pretty balanced.
I know that I should stay away from carbs and sugar.
Any advices?

Thanks again!

Unless you have some medical issue there is nothing wrong with carbs and sugar if you can fit them into your calorie goal and your other nutritional needs are being met.

^^yep.

Also, carbs are good for energy - so should help your performance in the gym. Make sure you get a decent amount of fats (from a variety of sources) also.

markymarrkk

I think you'll be fine if you eat back your exercise calories and hit weights to preserve lean mass

aalhasan

The problem is my life style goes this way:
Work from 8:30-4:30 (office) and during that time I have my breakfast and lunch: roughly 500cals combined.
Then dinner between 4:30 and 6:30: roughly 600cals
Cardio for an hour: Burns between 400-800 cals.
Then before sleeping I have smalls snacks (usually fruits): 100-200 cals.
Ending up with 700-800 calories per day!
What can I possibly do to maintain the 1500-1700 cals intake?

tateslady07

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