Paleo Diet Assoc With NegChanges to BloodLipid in HealthySub
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Perhaps the reason a two year old thread came up so readily is because every thread with the mere mention of Paleo has been removed.
Paleo suits me because of the elimination of grains and processed food. My body does not feel good when I eat them and it is as simple as that. I try to eat as close to nature as possible and Paleo gives me guidelines I can follow. You are not doing Paleo unless you are eating heaps of vegetables and the Paleo recipes inspire me.
Yep walking away from this 2 year old thread as well and wondering why I got sucked in to begin with.
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How do people even find nearly 2 year old threads to comment on? If it's a terribly niche topic where the last relevant thread on it was quite some time ago then I could understand it, but I'm preeeeeetty sure there have been one or two threads on Paleo since May of 2013. How does one make the decision that THIS is the thread to bump? Or, how do you not notice the date created? I'm not being snarky at all, I'm just constantly genuinely fascinated by zombie threads and am truly curious.
I wonder about that too. I can't figure out how to use the search function to find threads I want (or groups, sigh), so it's so funny when people decide to drag out some 2-3 year old thread.0 -
So maybe I don't "eat Paleo." Not sure, and I guess it doesn't matter. I just eat what makes my body feel good. But it was Paleo that got me thinking seriously about eating mostly whole, natural food. I miss chips and sweets at times, but I value feeling slimmer, healthier, and more energized more than I value those foods.
Honestly, I'm coming around a little on the named diet thing. I still don't really like them, but it seems that to some extent people may get excited about improving their overall way of eating because of them and if it helps them, great. Most people I know who are "paleo" in actual fact eat pretty similar to me since they don't really follow it that closely, but they do get excited about eating more veggies or more parts of the animal or source animals differently because of it, and I think those are good things, as is cooking. It occasionally annoys me that people claim a special name for what just seems to me to be healthy eating, but so be it.
(This has nothing to do with the study, obviously, but eh.)
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lemurcat12 wrote: »How do people even find nearly 2 year old threads to comment on? If it's a terribly niche topic where the last relevant thread on it was quite some time ago then I could understand it, but I'm preeeeeetty sure there have been one or two threads on Paleo since May of 2013. How does one make the decision that THIS is the thread to bump? Or, how do you not notice the date created? I'm not being snarky at all, I'm just constantly genuinely fascinated by zombie threads and am truly curious.
I wonder about that too. I can't figure out how to use the search function to find threads I want (or groups, sigh), so it's so funny when people decide to drag out some 2-3 year old thread.
From google, put in your search terms, then follow it with this: site:community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/
You can also use the search tools option to narrow it down by date.
(this works with any site that has a bad search function, just replace the part after site: with whatever website you're trying to find something)0 -
Apparently a new person who came here and wanted their first post to be about Paleo bumped this to share their terrific blood work. To be accurate, the study did say these were otherwise healthy people whose blood levels worsened, but the person who bumped this said they had very poor blood results before starting this elimination diet.lemurcat12 wrote: »How do people even find nearly 2 year old threads to comment on? If it's a terribly niche topic where the last relevant thread on it was quite some time ago then I could understand it, but I'm preeeeeetty sure there have been one or two threads on Paleo since May of 2013. How does one make the decision that THIS is the thread to bump? Or, how do you not notice the date created? I'm not being snarky at all, I'm just constantly genuinely fascinated by zombie threads and am truly curious.
I wonder about that too. I can't figure out how to use the search function to find threads I want (or groups, sigh), so it's so funny when people decide to drag out some 2-3 year old thread.
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And, you know, thinking more about this, a Mediterranean-style way of eating may well be superior--it's been studied rigorously and meat is used as a condiment rather than as the main attraction of meals. There's even a Mediterranean Diet pyramid, which makes it clear that there ain't no eating ad libitum without consequences.
When I got here, I identified as Paleo, but because I know a bit about nutrition, I took what made sense and didn't do what didn't make sense to me. Beans? Healthy food. Me eat. Dairy? A bit here and there. Meat? Sure, but I'm not Fred Flintstone. I still avoid cheese and white flour, but more because I love them and do better leaving them alone than limiting my consumption.
One thing I have realized, that Paleo brought home to me in a huge way--I don't feel good when I eat processed food, so I don't eat it, unless it's a special occasion, and even then I limit my portions.
So maybe I don't "eat Paleo." Not sure, and I guess it doesn't matter. I just eat what makes my body feel good. But it was Paleo that got me thinking seriously about eating mostly whole, natural food. I miss chips and sweets at times, but I value feeling slimmer, healthier, and more energized more than I value those foods.
Good point. I eat what makes me feel good physically and mentally. Most of the time, to feel good physically, I need whole foods, including whole grains. Sometimes mentally to feel good I need things that aren't considered intrinsically healthy, like chips/sweets, including the full-fat, full-sugar versions, though I am developing more and more alternatives along the way. Moderation yes. Elimination- nah, not for me.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »So maybe I don't "eat Paleo." Not sure, and I guess it doesn't matter. I just eat what makes my body feel good. But it was Paleo that got me thinking seriously about eating mostly whole, natural food. I miss chips and sweets at times, but I value feeling slimmer, healthier, and more energized more than I value those foods.
Honestly, I'm coming around a little on the named diet thing. I still don't really like them, but it seems that to some extent people may get excited about improving their overall way of eating because of them and if it helps them, great. Most people I know who are "paleo" in actual fact eat pretty similar to me since they don't really follow it that closely, but they do get excited about eating more veggies or more parts of the animal or source animals differently because of it, and I think those are good things, as is cooking. It occasionally annoys me that people claim a special name for what just seems to me to be healthy eating, but so be it.
(This has nothing to do with the study, obviously, but eh.)
He he I knew we were kindred spirits.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »How do people even find nearly 2 year old threads to comment on? If it's a terribly niche topic where the last relevant thread on it was quite some time ago then I could understand it, but I'm preeeeeetty sure there have been one or two threads on Paleo since May of 2013. How does one make the decision that THIS is the thread to bump? Or, how do you not notice the date created? I'm not being snarky at all, I'm just constantly genuinely fascinated by zombie threads and am truly curious.
I wonder about that too. I can't figure out how to use the search function to find threads I want (or groups, sigh), so it's so funny when people decide to drag out some 2-3 year old thread.
From google, put in your search terms, then follow it with this: site:community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/
You can also use the search tools option to narrow it down by date.
(this works with any site that has a bad search function, just replace the part after site: with whatever website you're trying to find something)
Thanks! (It would be more convenient if you could do it from here, of course, but I guess you can't ask for everything.) ;-)
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mamapeach910 wrote: »
Can I be paleo?
I'm a vegetarian, btw. Your diet just sounds like normal, balanced nutrition comprised of yummy food.
I'm not sure what my point is, other than the vagueness of the "paleo" label.
Do you think that, for instance, the Mediterraen diet is less vague?
Paleo is a large template, and yes there are vegetarians who claim to be paleo.
Of course if you don't find reasonable the paleo hypothesis (i.e.: there are certain foods we haven't still genetically fully adapted), your aren't paleo.
Yes the hypothesis could be wrong, but I can't see why there are people people who insist to call it a "fad", while the PUBLISHED literature shows that it is very healthy.
Here is a recent study:
http://www.lipidworld.com/content/13/1/160
Not bad for a fad, right?0 -
And, you know, thinking more about this, a Mediterranean-style way of eating may well be superior--it's been studied rigorously and meat is used as a condiment rather than as the main attraction of meals. There's even a Mediterranean Diet pyramid, which makes it clear that there ain't no eating ad libitum without consequences.
When I got here, I identified as Paleo, but because I know a bit about nutrition, I took what made sense and didn't do what didn't make sense to me. Beans? Healthy food. Me eat. Dairy? A bit here and there. Meat? Sure, but I'm not Fred Flintstone. I still avoid cheese and white flour, but more because I love them and do better leaving them alone than limiting my consumption.
One thing I have realized, that Paleo brought home to me in a huge way--I don't feel good when I eat processed food, so I don't eat it, unless it's a special occasion, and even then I limit my portions.
So maybe I don't "eat Paleo." Not sure, and I guess it doesn't matter. I just eat what makes my body feel good. But it was Paleo that got me thinking seriously about eating mostly whole, natural food. I miss chips and sweets at times, but I value feeling slimmer, healthier, and more energized more than I value those foods.
Good point. I eat what makes me feel good physically and mentally. Most of the time, to feel good physically, I need whole foods, including whole grains. Sometimes mentally to feel good I need things that aren't considered intrinsically healthy, like chips/sweets, including the full-fat, full-sugar versions, though I am developing more and more alternatives along the way. Moderation yes. Elimination- nah, not for me.
So much this. The other day, I decided potato chips would make me feel good. I had a nice little snack bag, 150 calories worth. I savored every chip. I used to eat them indiscriminately. I was completely satisfied, no gnawing hunger pangs afterwards; in fact, I felt full.
Unpacking a lot of my baggage around food and the things I used to tell myself about it has gotten me to this place. I'm happy physically and mentally with what I eat. It's been a long time getting here.
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avvgromano wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »
Can I be paleo?
I'm a vegetarian, btw. Your diet just sounds like normal, balanced nutrition comprised of yummy food.
I'm not sure what my point is, other than the vagueness of the "paleo" label.
Do you think that, for instance, the Mediterraen diet is less vague?
I don't, but they have different origins. The Med Diet is based on a traditional way of eating in a large area. Of course it would be vague. Paleo was created by one guy, and although many others now promote it and there have been some changes, it still contains certain essential ideas without which it doesn't really have a purpose (no grains, legumes, and dairy). I do think it's weird when someone claims to be paleo but eats these foods, especially grains (I am aware of the "primal" allowance for full fat, ideally raw dairy in moderation or whatever).Of course if you don't find reasonable the paleo hypothesis (i.e.: there are certain foods we haven't still genetically fully adapted), your aren't paleo.
Yes, I'd agree this is the essence.
As for it being healthy, on the whole most diets that lead to weight loss and promote eating a better diet overall (which I think it does for many) do. That doesn't mean that the particular traits of paleo--no grains, legumes, and dairy--are responsible, as opposed to the more incidental side effects (like eating fewer calories and less junk food as a proportion of overall calories).
For the record, I think this is why the Med Diet is healthy too. Not because grains and legumes are essential to a healthy diet or that meat should be limited.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: ». The Med Diet is based on a traditional way of eating in a large area. Of course it would be vague. Paleo was created by one guy,
I wouldn't say "one guy", actually paleo has many fathers:
http://paleodiabetic.com/tag/s-boyd-eaton/
And also the Med. diet has a "father" (Ancel Keys), but I get what you mean.
I believe that a diet can be healthy beside weight loss.As for it being healthy, on the whole most diets that lead to weight loss and promote eating a better diet overall (which I think it does for many) do.
Actually in the study I linked (have you read it?) they tried to keep bodyweight stable:
"Before the intervention all subjects recorded their usual diet using a food record diary. This diary was used by the dietician to adjust diets to individual energy demand by providing (additional) program-related snacks to prevent weight loss within the intervention period."
Nontheless:
"Despite efforts to keep bodyweight stable, more weight loss was observed in the Palaeolithic group, which is an important outcome of our study".
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A little annotation here. Paleo is often criticized for being too restrictive. Actually the advice to be very strict is mainly for those who suffer of a metabolic condition and/or an autoimmune issue. The others can cheat from time to time (80/20 rule) or follow a "weak form".lemurcat12 wrote: »I do think it's weird when someone claims to be paleo but eats these foods, especially grains
Today for lunch I had this:
http://blog.giallozafferano.it/maniamore/polpette-di-neonata-ricetta-di-pesce/
Alas, there was white flour yes, but I believe it is not going to kill me
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If they weren't told to eat strictly grass fed organic they didn't eliminate all possible variables.0
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avvgromano wrote: »
Indeed. I'm merely suggesting a followup study with grassfed beef only and organic foods would be a good idea. Not sure if the Crossfit training is the best thing in the world for people, either, especially if they go from sedentary to extreme workouts in a short period of time.0 -
avvgromano wrote: »I believe that a diet can be healthy beside weight loss.
Sure, but if dealing with a population where overweight and obesity is common the fact that it helps with weight loss will be relevant.Actually in the study I linked (have you read it?) they tried to keep bodyweight stable:
"Before the intervention all subjects recorded their usual diet using a food record diary. This diary was used by the dietician to adjust diets to individual energy demand by providing (additional) program-related snacks to prevent weight loss within the intervention period."
Nontheless:
"Despite efforts to keep bodyweight stable, more weight loss was observed in the Palaeolithic group, which is an important outcome of our study".
Yes, I looked at it, and I think it's consistent with my point, especially since focused on people with metabolic syndrome. Looks to me more like an issue of macros, not the paleo hypothesis about grains, dairy, and legumes. Also, it's somewhat biased by a focus on lean meats vs. how the actual diet works in practice. I think if you designed a Med Diet or even traditional American diet (not SAD) with similar macros and vegetable consumption you'd get similar results.
I certainly could be wrong and I'm interested in the studies, but this is like that result not long ago showing the Med Diet (however defined) was better for longevity than the generic healthy diet. I'd want to understand what the precise differences are before drawing even tentative conclusions. To a certain extent simply worrying about your diet puts you in a selected population that's not really comparable. (This applies to the Med Diet study, or the various vegetarian vs. not studies, not the one you cited, since yours was an intervention, not people who self-selected.)
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avvgromano wrote: »Actually the advice to be very strict is mainly for those who suffer of a metabolic condition and/or an autoimmune issue. The others can cheat from time to time (80/20 rule) or follow a "weak form".
Eh, I don't think that's right, but it's not like there's a pope of paleo (as Leena might say). ;-)
I know Mark Sisson (who doesn't claim to be paleo anymore, since he invented his own thing) has an 80/20 "rule," but he even says that you are not supposed to aspire to be 80% only, it's just that that's life and not to beat yourself up.
I also know that people who claim to be paleo (IME) "cheat" all the time, but that doesn't make eating grains paleo. It just means people are human--the advice is still that it's bad for you and the definition of the diet is still no grains, legumes, or dairy. If you order a paleo meal from a catering company that does them (they exist around here) they aren't going to include up to 20% grains or some such. To be clear, I wasn't saying I think it's weird that someone might claim to be paleo but eat a pie on Thanksgiving or some rare occasion--that's something that I have trouble with, as I tend to be absolutist if I take on some set of restrictions (which is my own issue, granted), but I do understand it. What I find weird is claiming to be paleo while eating a diet that regularly (even in smaller amounts) includes foods the exclusion of which are basically the essence of the diet. If what you really mean is something else, why not say that? There seems to be something about the association with the term or the lifestyle or the like. But in any case, I'm not trying to be critical of that now, but just pointing out that I think the healthy aspects of many of these "diets" have more to do with what they have in common than what they argue about.
Also, the added strictness for autoimmune conditions has to do with nightshades and various other foods that aren't normally restricted by paleo (and will probably be swallowed up by FODMAPs anyway).0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »avvgromano wrote: »Actually the advice to be very strict is mainly for those who suffer of a metabolic condition and/or an autoimmune issue. The others can cheat from time to time (80/20 rule) or follow a "weak form".
Eh, I don't think that's right,
You don't think that's right?
Sorry I didn't imagine I had to provide references.
Here they are:
about the 80/20 rule:
http://chriskresser.com/food-fascism-and-the-8020-rule
"For healthy people, I suggest they follow a high-fat, nutrient dense diet that removes the most significant food toxins (wheat, sugar/HFCS & industrial seed oils). If they do well with properly prepared grains and raw, fermented or at least organic dairy products, I don’t have a problem with that.
I also suggest they follow what I call the 80/20 rule. 80% of the time they should follow the guidelines very closely, and 20% of the time they’re free to loosen up and just eat what they want to eat. There’s a lot more to life than food, and in fact I believe (as did the ancient Chinese) that in some cases it’s better to eat the wrong food with the right attitude than the other way around.
Unfortunately, the 80/20 rule doesn’t apply to those dealing with serious health challenges or allergies or intolerances to specific foods. It’s never a good idea for someone with Hashimoto’s disease and gluten intolerance, for example, to just throw caution to the wind and have a pancake feast. That could trigger an immune reaction lasting up to several weeks."
As for the "weak form" of paleo (as opposed to the strong form), you can listen to this lecture of S.Boyd Eaton (one of the "fathers" of the diet):
In short, according to him, if you are healthy, you can eat whole grains, dairy, and drink wine in moderation (weak form), otherwise you have to be strict (strong form).0
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