Should surgery cost be standardized?
Replies
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Unfortunately true. But the tax code entirely has to do with how our government spends it's money. I love the military, but with so much tax dollars going to it because it's been "traditional" for so long, there's got to be a better way.Take your arguments to your Congressional representatives.
The ONLY problem I have with a National Health care initiative that covers all and provides common services at set amounts is that someone has to pay for that. That payment would be a subsidy of tax dollars. And until you change the tax code so that it isn't progressive, then you are simply increasing an already unfair system. The same procedure or service ends up "costing" me more than it cost you, simply because my tax bracket is higher.
I'd rather our money go to research curing cancer than researching on making destructive tanks.
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I'm not arguing the ineptness of our government to spend money in a fiscally sound, and ultimately "healthy" way. I agree that far too much money gets spent on unneeded endeavors. The people have very little control on how our government handles what it "takes" from us. Sure sure, we get to vote people in/out of positions....big deal when everyone that we get to "choose" to be in said office in the first place is already groomed to be part of the "power" system of government.
It is rare today to see a politician that isn't "part" of the game. If our gov't were really concerned with the well being of the people, alot would be different. Our gov't is concerned with being in "control" of the people, in totality, and ultimately in "control" of the rest of the world (or as much as the rest of the world will let us get away with).0 -
Putting on my conspiracy hat.. one of the most common and newest "diseases"is autism. You do not hear about mass funding and research for it, when there should be. A cure for autism or even effective treatment would be hugely profitable. But I think they already know what is causing autism. Something that is making them even more money.. It's like a car recall scenario.. which will cost less, paying for the cars to be fixed or paying off the families of people who died because of a fault with the car. True capitalism.0
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And yet you think LESS regulation is the answer? LOLz
Show me where more government regulation and intervention have lowered costs and provided better and more available coverage.
the post office0 -
And yet you think LESS regulation is the answer? LOLz
Show me where more government regulation and intervention have lowered costs and provided better and more available coverage.
CAFE standards0 -
And yet you think LESS regulation is the answer? LOLz
Show me where more government regulation and intervention have lowered costs and provided better and more available coverage.
Usury regulations0 -
And yet you think LESS regulation is the answer? LOLz
Show me where more government regulation and intervention have lowered costs and provided better and more available coverage.
Air and water pollution0 -
I have an online friend who lives in Canada. He spent a year in agony, with kidney stones, on the waiting list for surgery. Because it was a "non emergency." A year. When he did get the operation, the surgeon didn't get all the stones, so he got to wait another 6 months for a second operation. Yeah, I'm sure he's very glad to get free health care.
I had a friend in the UK. He had severe panic disorder. But they will not prescribe certain medications in the UK that are very effective in treating this disorder because the are "addictive." Which they are not, really. But try to convince the NHS of that. He used to refer to them as the Notional Health System. He is dead now, having self-medicated his disorder with alcohol, because he could not get effective treatment.
Yes, I very much want single payer socialized medicine in the US, so government pencil pushers can determine what sort and level of care we each get. Because our government has done SUCH a good job with everything else it is doing and has done.
Oh. What... Our government pretty much screws up everything it touches.
I don't know how it works in Canada, but in the UK you can buy medical insurance for private hospitals, or simply pay the private hospital for your treatment in cash. Surgery may be extremely expensive, but a consultation with a private doctor for the purpose of being prescribed a drug or getting better advice or a 2nd opinion is not all that expensive, especially when it's something that just requires a consultation and a couple of follow-up appointments. Additionally, a lot of psychiatric treatments like cognitive behaviour therapy can be accessed privately without costing the earth. A lot of people who don't buy medical insurance will pay for a private doctor to get a 2nd opinion or because they're not getting anywhere with the NHS.
If someone in the UK can't afford to pay for a consultation and follow-up with a private doctor or for the medical insurance that would enable them to get insurance cover for private medicine, then in the USA they wouldn't be able to access treatment at all. Whatever you can (probably justifiably) criticise the NHS for, it's better than nothing....!0 -
And yet you think LESS regulation is the answer? LOLz
Show me where more government regulation and intervention have lowered costs and provided better and more available coverage.
the public school system
the post office
CAFE standards
Usury regulations
Air and water pollution
These were jokes right? Public schools? We throw more and more money at then each year and each year the US falls farther and farther behind in eduction. The post office? They have been cutting services and lose massive amounts of money each year. Their only reason for continuing for so long was their monopoly on first class mail. CAFE standards? New cars are expected to cost about $2000 more because of this mandate. As a result, many potential new car buyers will be priced out of the market. I honestly don't know much about usury regulations. Air and water pollution? I like a lot of what it has achieved but no one in their right mind would say they did so efficiently.
Please tell me these were just jokes.0 -
These were jokes right? Public schools? We throw more and more money at then each year and each year the US falls farther and farther behind in eduction.
Out of curiosity, who do you think the US are falling further and further behind?0 -
HUD?And yet you think LESS regulation is the answer? LOLz
Show me where more government regulation and intervention have lowered costs and provided better and more available coverage.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Not to get into the politics of it, but when a politicians career starts off by being an attorney.................................well, you see where I'm going.
Unfortunately true. But the tax code entirely has to do with how our government spends it's money. I love the military, but with so much tax dollars going to it because it's been "traditional" for so long, there's got to be a better way.Take your arguments to your Congressional representatives.
The ONLY problem I have with a National Health care initiative that covers all and provides common services at set amounts is that someone has to pay for that. That payment would be a subsidy of tax dollars. And until you change the tax code so that it isn't progressive, then you are simply increasing an already unfair system. The same procedure or service ends up "costing" me more than it cost you, simply because my tax bracket is higher.
I'd rather our money go to research curing cancer than researching on making destructive tanks.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I'm not arguing the ineptness of our government to spend money in a fiscally sound, and ultimately "healthy" way. I agree that far too much money gets spent on unneeded endeavors. The people have very little control on how our government handles what it "takes" from us. Sure sure, we get to vote people in/out of positions....big deal when everyone that we get to "choose" to be in said office in the first place is already groomed to be part of the "power" system of government.
It is rare today to see a politician that isn't "part" of the game. If our gov't were really concerned with the well being of the people, alot would be different. Our gov't is concerned with being in "control" of the people, in totality, and ultimately in "control" of the rest of the world (or as much as the rest of the world will let us get away with).
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
And yet you think LESS regulation is the answer? LOLz
Show me where more government regulation and intervention have lowered costs and provided better and more available coverage.
the public school system
the post office
CAFE standards
Usury regulations
Air and water pollution
These were jokes right? Public schools? We throw more and more money at then each year and each year the US falls farther and farther behind in eduction. The post office? They have been cutting services and lose massive amounts of money each year. Their only reason for continuing for so long was their monopoly on first class mail. CAFE standards? New cars are expected to cost about $2000 more because of this mandate. As a result, many potential new car buyers will be priced out of the market. I honestly don't know much about usury regulations. Air and water pollution? I like a lot of what it has achieved but no one in their right mind would say they did so efficiently.
Please tell me these were just jokes.
you're hilarious. go ahead and trust big business to look out for your best interests while being unregulated.0 -
Health care shouldn't have to come down to better work though. It should be the same from patient to patient.60 000$ difference is huge...
Maybe a standardized percentage based on living costs on the area? Not completely though, people should still be able to charge more if they feel they deserve more for better work.
There probably should be some standardization, but at the same token, if you're the top guy in your field and the guy who does a crappy job gets paid the same, are you going to put the same effort into your work? And if a set price is agreed upon, is that going to change the quality of care? Is the surgeon who was charging $60,000 a pop now going to have to do more to make up the difference and then get careless? There does need to be change, but I don't know how well it's going to work if the surgeon who has the highest success rate and best post-op patient outcome is suddenly only able to charge $4000 for a hip replacement. Either the quality of the products that he uses is going to lapse or his detail to attention is going to lessen. Something's going to give. It's like communism, which sounds great on paper - everyone works, everyone gets the same. We see how well that worked for communist countries.
My husband has to deal with the VA hospital. They don't pay their physicians well since there's not much competition where we live, so they essentially get what they pay for. (The one physician, who isn't from The States and who has a different cultural background, told a Vietnam veteran to just "get over it because it was more than 30 years ago." ) The VA in New York is able to pay their doctors considerably more because there's so much competition with the other hospitals looking to hire, so they can get better doctors in there. They have better physicians.0 -
I have an online friend who lives in Canada. He spent a year in agony, with kidney stones, on the waiting list for surgery. Because it was a "non emergency." A year. When he did get the operation, the surgeon didn't get all the stones, so he got to wait another 6 months for a second operation. Yeah, I'm sure he's very glad to get free health care.
I had a friend in the UK. He had severe panic disorder. But they will not prescribe certain medications in the UK that are very effective in treating this disorder because the are "addictive." Which they are not, really. But try to convince the NHS of that. He used to refer to them as the Notional Health System. He is dead now, having self-medicated his disorder with alcohol, because he could not get effective treatment.
Yes, I very much want single payer socialized medicine in the US, so government pencil pushers can determine what sort and level of care we each get. Because our government has done SUCH a good job with everything else it is doing and has done.
Oh. What... Our government pretty much screws up everything it touches.
How much would he have paid for that in the US? $60 000? I'm sure a years wages saved is worth the wait. Yeah it sucks that people have to wait for things like MRI's or surgery, but when my mom went for Chemo, it was $13 000 every 2 weeks for her treatment. We didn't pay a cent towards that, if we had been made to pay, she wouldn't have been able to have a single treatment. If you accidentally break an arm in the US, oh, bye bye $20 000. I'd much rather wait 6 months to a year for whatever I need than need to remortgage my house to afford it!0 -
Interesting views on an interesting subject.0
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And yet you think LESS regulation is the answer? LOLz
Show me where more government regulation and intervention have lowered costs and provided better and more available coverage.
the public school system
the post office
CAFE standards
Usury regulations
Air and water pollution
These were jokes right? Public schools? We throw more and more money at then each year and each year the US falls farther and farther behind in eduction. The post office? They have been cutting services and lose massive amounts of money each year. Their only reason for continuing for so long was their monopoly on first class mail. CAFE standards? New cars are expected to cost about $2000 more because of this mandate. As a result, many potential new car buyers will be priced out of the market. I honestly don't know much about usury regulations. Air and water pollution? I like a lot of what it has achieved but no one in their right mind would say they did so efficiently.
Please tell me these were just jokes.
you're hilarious. go ahead and trust big business to look out for your best interests while being unregulated.
Damn, you weren't joking. Oh well. We just have a fundamental difference of opinion. Thank you for your go ahead though.These were jokes right? Public schools? We throw more and more money at then each year and each year the US falls farther and farther behind in eduction.
Out of curiosity, who do you think the US are falling further and further behind?
Further and further behind each successive US generation would be the best indicator (not to mention most other first world countries). The face that most colleges have to provide remedial classes in math for incoming freshmen on a growing scale. And those are the students that planned on going to college.
And as much fun as debating this topic is, HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY. I'm off spend it with my mom-in-law. Give your mum a call.0 -
Further and further behind each successive US generation would be the best indicator (not to mention most other first world countries). The face that most colleges have to provide remedial classes in math for incoming freshmen on a growing scale. And those are the students that planned on going to college.
And as much fun as debating this topic is, HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY. I'm off spend it with my mom-in-law. Give your mum a call.
It's not mothers day in my country, maybe that was only taught to previous generations!
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Health care shouldn't have to come down to better work though. It should be the same from patient to patient.60 000$ difference is huge...
Maybe a standardized percentage based on living costs on the area? Not completely though, people should still be able to charge more if they feel they deserve more for better work.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
But some surgeons do do better work. Maybe they do smaller incisions, use a slightly different procedure, better aftercare.0 -
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324059704578471453118371838.html
At John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek, Calif., the set price of treatment for fractures of the hip and pelvis averaged $64,016 per patient in 2011. Meanwhile, Wooster Community Hospital in Wooster, Ohio, set its price for treating such injuries at an average of just $3,986 per patient that year.
Now while I will agree that land cost and cost of living will play into a higher cost at John Muir (I live about 30 minutes away from it), we're talking $60,000 in difference for the same procedure? Until health care in the US stops being a for profit operation, the cost of healthcare in the US will be high.
Thoughts?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The expensive one is in California. I bet you wouldn't find the surgery that expensive in any other state except some of the east coast ones like NY and CT.0 -
But that wasn't the point of the post. The average cost for a hip fracture treatment in the US is $26,000 before the surgeon's charge.http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324059704578471453118371838.html
At John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek, Calif., the set price of treatment for fractures of the hip and pelvis averaged $64,016 per patient in 2011. Meanwhile, Wooster Community Hospital in Wooster, Ohio, set its price for treating such injuries at an average of just $3,986 per patient that year.
Now while I will agree that land cost and cost of living will play into a higher cost at John Muir (I live about 30 minutes away from it), we're talking $60,000 in difference for the same procedure? Until health care in the US stops being a for profit operation, the cost of healthcare in the US will be high.
Thoughts?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
The expensive one is in California. I bet you wouldn't find the surgery that expensive in any other state except some of the east coast ones like NY and CT.
What we're looking for is WHY such a disparagement between costs?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
The government in this country cannot balance a check book or function under its current responsibilities, they are constantly raising our taxes to pay for their problems and they have no desire to buy into the "generalized healthcare" they are offering to he population. You really think they should be entrusted with health care? And won't jack up prices for their own agendas??0
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IN for details on constantly raised taxes0
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Details? I can give specifics that have happened in my state and the state beside me in the last month.
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Standardized? No.
Made transparent and readily available to promote proper consumerism? Yes.
Currently you have to pay for a consultation and be examined by each office before they will give you pricing. Most people don't have the time off work to do this. And I am referring to all medical procedures, not just surgeries. All medical procedures, generally, have standardized codes. I feel that once you are evaluated, you should be able to take the procedure codes, call another office, and get pricing based on these codes. If the office needs to do another evaluation prior to the actual procedure to verify, then fine, but I just want clear initial estimates.0 -
Details? I can give specifics that have happened in my state and the state beside me in the last month.
What's your state have to do with the federal tax rate? I'm interested in finding out how much my federal taxes have increased over the past two decades0 -
Local tax still cuts my pay, as for federal tax I am not sure of the specifics but I know they raised the rates for pay in to medicaide/medicare and social security this year. The exact amount I cannot say because it goes by percentage based off of income, they are not raising income tax yet as far as I aware, not that it matters income tax is the only one of those you pay in on that you could potentially see backDetails? I can give specifics that have happened in my state and the state beside me in the last month.
What's your state have to do with the federal tax rate? I'm interested in finding out how much my federal taxes have increased over the past two decades 0 -
Local tax still cuts my pay, as for federal tax I am not sure of the specifics but I know they raised the rates for pay in to medicaide/medicare and social security this year. The exact amount I cannot say because it goes by percentage based off of income, they are not raising income tax yet as far as I aware, not that it matters income tax is the only one of those you pay in on that you could potentially see backDetails? I can give specifics that have happened in my state and the state beside me in the last month.
What's your state have to do with the federal tax rate? I'm interested in finding out how much my federal taxes have increased over the past two decades
The "increase" was to the payroll tax (Social Security tax), and it was just the expiration of a temporary tax holiday, not an actual tax increase.
Also, technically, you will likely (or unlikely, it were) see that money back in the form of Social Security.0 -
Details? I can give specifics that have happened in my state and the state beside me in the last month.
What's your state have to do with the federal tax rate? I'm interested in finding out how much my federal taxes have increased over the past two decades
Your federal income tax was actually very likely reduced over the past two decades. 0 -
Details? I can give specifics that have happened in my state and the state beside me in the last month.
What's your state have to do with the federal tax rate? I'm interested in finding out how much my federal taxes have increased over the past two decades
Your federal income tax was actually very likely reduced over the past two decades.
What??? Next you'll be telling me that the tax rates are the lowest they've been in 60 years! Or you'll try to trick me into believing that rich people used to pay rates of 50% or higher, yet still managed to open new businesses, invest in America, and profit. Certainly this cannot be the case!0 -
I will believe the tax is temporary when it is removed.0
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