Off Topic Post About Education

Helawat

As a licensed high school English teacher, I'm very interested in graduation rates and what's being done to improve the system. I read the following article today about graduation rates and was shocked. In Nevada, 60% of our students graduate; however, 90% of our students failed the math proficiency test last Monday. This is how the rest of the nation measures up:

"Based on 2003-2004 data, the report said that across the country the graduation average for public school students is 69.9 percent, with the best success rate in suburbs -- 74.9 percent -- and rural districts -- 73.2 percent.

And it said that black and native American student's have effectively a one-in-two chance of getting a high school diploma.

Asian-Americans score the highest graduation rate, at 80 percent, with whites at 76.2 percent and Hispanics at 57.8 percent.

Women graduate at a much higher rate than men, 73.6 percent to 66.0 percent.

Detroit, Michigan's main school district scored a graduation rate of 24.9 percent.

New York, the country's largest city, has a graduation rate for its main school district of 45.2 percent, and Los Angeles, the second largest, of 45.3 percent."

24.9% of students graduate in Detroit? 1 in 2 African American and Hispanic students graduate? I might as well divide my class in half and tell one side of the room to go home.

What do you think?

Article Source:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080401/ts_alt_afp/useducationsociety;_ylt=ArD0VIK5lJQKvqUI.YBTGdpQXs8F

Helawat

As a licensed high school English teacher, I'm very interested in graduation rates and what's being done to improve the system. I read the following article today about graduation rates and was shocked. In Nevada, 60% of our students graduate; however, 90% of our students failed the math proficiency test last Monday. This is how the rest of the nation measures up:

"Based on 2003-2004 data, the report said that across the country the graduation average for public school students is 69.9 percent, with the best success rate in suburbs -- 74.9 percent -- and rural districts -- 73.2 percent.

And it said that black and native American student's have effectively a one-in-two chance of getting a high school diploma.

Asian-Americans score the highest graduation rate, at 80 percent, with whites at 76.2 percent and Hispanics at 57.8 percent.

Women graduate at a much higher rate than men, 73.6 percent to 66.0 percent.

Detroit, Michigan's main school district scored a graduation rate of 24.9 percent.

New York, the country's largest city, has a graduation rate for its main school district of 45.2 percent, and Los Angeles, the second largest, of 45.3 percent."

24.9% of students graduate in Detroit? 1 in 2 African American and Hispanic students graduate? I might as well divide my class in half and tell one side of the room to go home.

What do you think?

Article Source:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080401/ts_alt_afp/useducationsociety;_ylt=ArD0VIK5lJQKvqUI.YBTGdpQXs8F

greysweatshirt

Very interesting that you posted this...I'm a teacher myself, in the Detroit area actually!! I don't teach in Detroit itself, but in one of the suburbs around it. The dropout rate is so depressing..kids come to school in Kindergarten so excited and love to learn and less than 12 years later, they are ready to drop out.

As a music teacher, I do everything I can to make my class fun to come to. I remember when I taught high school, I literally had kids tell me that choir was the only reason they came to school! What can we do to keep these kids interested in learning??

Helawat

All classrooms are different for obvious reasons.

My classes are composed roughly 50% Hispanic, 40% white, 7% black, and 3% other. The language barrier is so intense there's no point in me teaching half the time.

What can you do to intrinsically motivate students who don't understand what you're saying? Last year I had 6 12th grade Chinese students (all of whom are best friends) put into my 10th grade English class. Three of the six couldn't speak a lick of English and if three of the students passed my pass, they wouldn't graduate because they're so credit deficient. The counselors suggest pairing the students in twos so they can help each other in class.

I don't teach these students, the student teach the students. This is one reason why 1:2 Hispanic students graduate high school. I know for a fact these kids don't teach each other a damned thing....they just sit and gossip. I never receive any assignments from the kids grouped in pairs of two and at the end of the semester they're begging for their D's.

It's a shame. I don't know what to do to motivate these kids either.

greysweatshirt

In my district, they have some ESL (English as a Second Language) specialists that those types of students go to for remedial help with language problems. Do they have anything like that in your district?

The language barrier can be so frustrating! The sad thing is, most of the kids are probably really smart, but get frustrated because they can't understand and give up. I have a friend who teaches 5th grade and she has 6 different reading groups in her class. She has kids everywhere from Pre-K reading level to 5th grade. She breaks them up into different groups by their reading level and has them work that way. I don't know if there is anything like that you can incorporate into your classroom? Or are there some sort of way you can incorporate a combination of spanish and english assignments?

Helawat

We do have an ESL teacher; however, she's so swamped it's impossible for her to catch up with all the kids and some just fall through the cracks.

Unfortunately, I can't break up the kids into different reading groups because I teach 10th grade English. It's too hard to do that at the high school level because certain kids will be labeled as slow learners by other students and create isolation amongst the kids. The "good readers" wont want to work with the "slow readers" because they'll just impede their assignment and make them work slower.

I spend too much time catering to the kids who don't speak English as it is. What am I going to do with the rest of the kids who speak English fluently? In essence, if I separated kids by skill level it would be a segregated classroom (separate but equal) and the last thing I want is to be in the news with Al Sharpton on my back.

I can't mix Spanish and English assignments because the kids who speak English have no right doing their English homework in Spanish when they can't even speak/write English correctly.

This is one of the many reasons why the graduation rate is so piss poor. Teaching sucks.

may_marie

I don't have a miracle solution for you guys, bu please don't give up guys, you are doing your best with the ressources that are available to you. You are teaching a generation of kids that have their minds kept busy with everything but education. the rise of video games, movies, and main stream entertainment is always rising and fighting for their attention. no wonder english, math and everything else is pure boredom and that is just a fraction of the problem. Your guys are heros to just even try. Your doing the impossible and we are all behind you.

serously, that kind of statistic are just unbelivable, the goverment has to do something with this, but obvisouly its busy putting its money else where.
may

gonezobean

I am a teacher on the Southside of Chicago. I am in the heart of dysfunction, left-behind kids and non-readers. I have found that some books are offered on many levels. For example, one chapter book may come in a 4th-11th readability level. This would help you cater to the needs of the kids but not sticking them in “robins” and “eagles” reading groups.

Lets be honest though, kids know if they can or cannot read. I have found that leveling groups isn't an issue. They all want to improve the craft and don’t care how they get there. We talk about the causes for how my kids read now, why each student has different specialties and gifts and the importance of being good people. So far, a few years running, I have had a wonderful class of kids who average 2 years growth in reading. I think honesty is the best policy; if you don’t talk to them about their past education, the present stats and the future (college), graduation may be a rude a wakening.

lotusfromthemud

Just so you know, the situation is filtering its way up to college level. When I was teaching college in the states, I had students (at a state university) who were barely able to write a sentence.

I don't know how we stop it. I do know that public education teachers, such as all of you fine people

A. deserve medals

B. deserve higher pay! Helawat, you are teaching the most valuable resource that we have (or you have. . .I'm an ex-pat. . .) as a nation and you started a post about how you can't afford to buy healthy food. Whoa! Outrageous!

Keep the faith guys, I substitute taught in the Toledo public school system for a while. Keep your heads up, and stay out of the teacher's lounge. (this was great advice from an education professor. . .the teacher's lounge is where the negativity lives. The job gives you enough of that already)

MontanaGirl

Wow. I just want to say a big "Thanks" to all you on here who are teachers!! That is one of the hardest jobs in our time. You guys rock - and deserve much more respect and pay than you generally get!! God Bless you all!

lockedcj7

This is my 7th year as a high-school science teacher. I've earned an M.Ed and National Board Certification in recent years so I like to think that I know what I'm talking about.

I really think there are two different things going on.:

First, we have a group of students who (historically speaking) would have never made it this far. I am NOT speaking of one ethnic group or another. Poor, rural and urban families of all ethnicities have shown similar patterns of education (or lack of it) throughout history. These children would have dropped out in grade school or certainly by 8th grade and would have gone to work on the farms, in the factories and on the oil fields. We are doing a much better job of tracking these kids now and they are staying in school longer than ever before. As a consequence, they are showing up in the dropout rate. Years ago, these kinds of statistics weren't even being kept.

Second, we have a system that is egalitarian and attempts to provide the same education for all students, regardless of ability or desire. Tracking students is no longer done in most states meaning that classes are mixed ability. We are attempting to provide a college-prep curriculum to students who have little ability and no desire to go to college. We need to stop pretending that all children are equal. As painful as it is to admit, some students simply lack the cognitive ability to be successful in a college-prep curriculum. Those on the borderline, with the right motivation, can learn the organizational skills and the coping strategies to succeed.

What is missing in most areas are trade schools and vocational education programs that prepare students for the working world. Some states and districts do a better job with this than others but most programs I've seen fall far short of the actual need.

The media is fond of reporting that the U.S. is behind this country or that country based on test scores. There are two reasons for this. We allow (or even require, depending on the test) every student to be counted. I recently asked a German foreign exchange student how students are tracked in his country. Students there take a standardized test in THIRD GRADE! The results are used to recommend which program is appropriate. There are three choices. A track that leads to colleges, a track that leads to a skilled, technical positions and a third track that leads to skilled labor positions. If you do well and your parents push, you can move between tracks. Each track has different requirements, different measures of success and different tests. When our students are compared to theirs, ALL of our students are compared to only the college-prep track. No wonder we look like we are behind! In addition, mixed ability classes force us to go slower and teach less depth because "no child should be left behind." The result is that we are not pushing our honors students as high as they are capable of going.

I personally say that some students should be left behind. Some only come to school to buy and sell drugs. They refuse to do any work and only serve to disrupt the learning process and environment. Under NCLB, they are counted as drop-outs even when they get expelled for dangerous, illegal or violent acts. For many students, education is a lifeboat. It's a chance to escape generational poverty and all of the dangers that come with it. What would YOU do if someone in your lifeboat was acting like an *kitten* and endangering the rest of the people on the boat?

/rant

emtink

i agree with locked cj. i work at an architectural firm, and we hear from contractors how difficult it is to find skilled labor! i think it is a diservice to everyone when we act like the only respectable post-high school choice is college. there is nothing wrong with vocational or techincal schools, and in fact we NEED those skills in my community! students who aren't 'book smart' (and have no desire to be so) should be shown all of the other options available to them. journeyman level carpenters, plumbers, etc make more money than me (a college graduate):noway:

phollowa

Helawat - I just want to encourage you to keep on what you're doing!!! You are a gift to those students and you have to believe that even though you may not reach them all...you ARE reaching some...and they will always be indebted to you for it!
I teach Kindergarten and it is such fun to have excited and happy to learn kiddos around. AND we get non-english kids, but at age 5 and 6, they pick up the language in a couple months....which is amazing to me! We lower grades are trying to get the kids excited about school...but it's hard with all the mandated testing going on....but I just want to tell you to keep on keepin on!! :flowerforyou: