Mostly venting but about deprivation and dieting.....

Callmefia

I just had a discussion with someone about weight loss. I know that her plan works for her (she has lost 70+lbs over her heaviest) I was telling her how I think something like weight watchers will work well for me because I typically fall off the wagon because I feel "deprived" - I like my sweets and I don't think I should miss out on them forever for the rest of my life! I don't think its practical, but WW lets you have your extra points and splurge a little here and there as long as you stay under your points. I think my biggest problem is portion control and making healthier choices, but I think a small serving of something is not bad once a week or so.

She just argued with me that its like being an alcoholic and you have to give it up. My example was ice cream. I LOOOOOVE ice cream. She told me there is no nutritional value so I need to give it up as if I was an alcoholic and that was beer. I just don't think thats practical for my personality.

Can anyone weigh in on this (no pun intended)? I just need some backup! I know I'm not dilusional, I'm pretty sure I read about this right on the WW website... but she was insistent and practically yelling at me. She even said "We're fat, we gotta cut that stuff out of our diets like we were alcoholics and it was alcohol" I just don't think its appropriate for anyone to call me fat. I can call myself that but I really wanted to smack her across the face for saying that. Its one thing to say it about yourself but not appropriate for someone else! ARGH!

Maybe this is my wake up call yet again that I need to avoid this person for the rest of my life. Once in awhile I have these with this person and I just decide I can't be around her anymore. I avoid her for months and then we start talking again until this happens again.

krislew

I haven't given up anything. But what I have done is found out that I question eating that ice cream before I do it. I ask myself do I want to use my calories for ice cream, because that means I may be hungry later because I can't eat a more filling meal? But if I want ice cream, I eat it.

I find that if I crave something so badly...that I will eat everything but and use the same amount of calories than just eating the ice cream in the first place, and still feel unsatisfied.

Do what works for you!!!

RoAnn

If you can keep withing you calorie goal I think it is ok to have a treat. Depriving yourself of a food item you love only seems to have a negative effect. Just have a serving and stay withing you calorie goal. Good Luck to you:)

tigerblue

Okay, the last time I lost weight (about 6 years ago), I did it by purging almost all unhealthy (sugar or fat filled) food from my diet and replacing with whole grains, etc. It worked quickly and easily. The problem was that I could only eat at home, mostly only things that I cooked from scratch. I was exhausted all the time because I was cooking EVERYTHING. And when I started eating normally (although still somewhat controlled)--eating out, eating occasional pre-packed stuff, eating at other's homes--the weight came right back, and then some! So here I am again. This time I am counting calories. (including exercise calories earned.) Nothing is off limits, but common sense tells me that if I eat cheesecake, I'm gonna be hungry later, and won't have any calories to eat. So now, each day I can make a choice, and if I have a treat, I know just how much I will have to cut out at the next meal (or exercise extra) to come in under my limit. This is working so much better for me. I usually make the good choice, and I usually choose to exercise. But regardless, it is my choice, and I feel in control. I think this is actually something I can maintain this time. I just know that I will have to keep counting for the rest of my life. But even that is easier now. I sort of know the basic calorie counts of the foods I eat, and I am so much more aware. . .

26 lbs. down from my all time high, and I'm almost to my final goal!!

Hope this helps.

ron2282

I haven't given anything up, I just eat smaller portions. And if I really want something, I just workout a little longer that day. Since I changed my lifesyle I noticed that I don't really crave the unhealthy stuff as much as I used to, but there are still days that I want it. I LOVE ice cream too, but instead of regular ice cream I now get skinny cow ice cream. I can't taste a difference and it has much less calories.

You can't completely cut out everthing. This shouldn't be a temporary diet, its a change of lifestyle.

dore0021

For her, food is an addiction. Obviously if she has a little, she can't stop. You may have more self control :-) To each their own.

merbee

Hmmmm. Tough subject. I - personally - think you are both right. The trick is finding a balance between the two. I did a lot of research ebfore finding MFP. I live in a small town where WW is available - but nothing else is. I think your friend has adopted some of the Overeaters Anonymous philosofies. Food is like alcohol to an alcoholic and abstinance is the answer.
Again - personally - I am a binger. So I identified 3 things that I binge on - put them on a list and called them my "alcohol" or taboo foods. I stay away from these three things, but I do allow myself other things - just never one of those 3 things. These 3 things were the things that I went to when I had a bad day or was emotional about something. They are French Vanilla capacinos, cookies, and popcorn smothered in butter. i can still have coffee, and popcorn - just without the butter. I can still have a piece of cake and some ice cream at a birthday party - just not cookies. It seems to work for me. For some people it might be french fries or potato chips or something like that.
Find a balance and make it work for you.

DrBorkBork

Nowhere in the word DIET do I see the word deprivation. I eat what I want, when I want, in moderation. If I want something bad enough, I go out and earn the calories for it.
Diet is the food you put in your body, and nothing else. It's your lifestyle. That's it. Why put watered down gas in your ferrari when you can afford to give it the very best stuff on the market instead?

CasperO

I have a bowl of ice cream just about every night, and I usually top it with almonds or sunflower seeds or something too. Hasn't hurt me none. And "No nutritional value" is B.S. Ice cream is just food, a dairy product. Similar to yogurt, but with some sugar added. Nothing wrong with it.

This all comes down to calories in/calories out. If you have the calories for it and you want it, then eat it - duh! If you want it and you don't have the calories for it, get off your butt and earn some more calories. I try to get at least 1/2 hour of exercise every single day, and I'd be lying if I didn't say that earning those calories is a big part of my motivation. And that's Ok,,, your metab doesn't care why you're walking, it just knows you're walking, and it likes it.

ACarp24

I completely understand your offense at someone else saying "we" are fat because my mom said the same thing to me. I screamed at her and told her she had no right to call me that, but I can't just go avoiding my own mom, so I eventually calmed down and forgive her. It hurts yes, but it made me wake up and think to myself, I need to change. As for a person on a diet being like an alcoholic, I don't agree. You can live without beer for the rest of your life, you have to eat! I don't think that, for me at least, weight watchers would be worth the money simply because it allows for little cheats. You could easily devise your own plan that allows for a sweet or two, perhaps even as often as once a week if planned carefully. You could also try to make lower calorie versions of sweets that would satisfy your cravings. Hope this helps!

rybo

I think it's a little different from person to person.
From my observations people can either "flip hte switch" or they can't. Some make the transition to nearly total healthy eating & never look back. For them, giving up junk food was not seen as a deprivation, just a mere shift.

However, for the bigger majority of people, I think total deprivation of foods they truly enjoy is a recipe for failure, and why so many of these "fad" diets fail long term. I've seen too many people make themselves unhappy by depriving food they loved. I think more of those peopel would be far better off to still eat a very limited amount of bad foods to maintain thier happiness, while still focusing on the long term goals of eating healthy. I feel it is a very small % of people who fit into the "alcoholic" type category, but I am sure there are a few.

My opinion for the big majority of people is eating healthy & making those bigger changes where you can, cut out the complete excess boredom snacking, limit the junk foods that can't be given up and go from there. Transition over & don't severely deprive yourself and the changes will be easier to maintain over the long haul.

austinusn

one thing i've discovered is different strokes for different folks, really! what works for one person might not work for another so something to keep in mind. i have no experience with WW but you can't argue with the numbers of those who have been successful -- but of course there will be some that have not as well. everyone is different of course.

my take on things like WW, jenny craig, nutri-system, south beach, pills, etc., are they are fine IF you can commit to a lifetime of living in that style. once you go back to living your normal routine, the results of that lifestyle will start to show. the trick is to find something that works for you that you can stick with for the rest of your life -- a lifestyle change that you can incorporate into your life.

portion control is very important and equally as important is tracking what you are taking in. when i started tracking, i was surprised at the amount of calories/fat/sugar etc that i was taking in. stick within the limits of what's here on the site and you'll do great.

sweets to me are a necessity that you must feed every once in a while for your mental well-being if anything else. if i go for very long my body revolts and next thing i know, i'm eating bags and bags of sweets when i should have treated myself to a little bit in the first place. ice cream is a tough craving -- have you looked at yogurt which is a bit better for you? also, the lower fat ice cream and such is not too bad and might be a better choice.

for your friend -- uggh. having that kind of "support" is not exactly what you need. set your goals for weight loss (1 pound a week is safe), track your food through this site, plenty of water, exercise, and you should be making great results!

vineas

Maybe this is my wake up call yet again that I need to avoid this person for the rest of my life. Once in awhile I have these with this person and I just decide I can't be around her anymore. I avoid her for months and then we start talking again until this happens again.

I think you've nailed it there - she seems like a very negative person to have around you. To succeed (in weight loss as well as other things), you need to surround yourself with positivity. Sounds a bit new-age, but it's the truth.

As far as eating "bad" stuff, it's something that you learn to work around. Limit the portions and how often you indulge yourself, but you don't have to completely give up on ice cream or chocolate, you just need to be smart about it. I had a small hunk of chocolate last night, it was something I had been craving for a few days (and it was just as good as I thought it would be!), so I just had to move around the other things I ate so that I'd still be near my calorie goal for the day. Now I won't have any other sweets for a while, but it's OK as I don't even crave chocolate anymore - yesterday was enough for a while.

melodyg

The first "diet" I ever did was Weight Watchers. While I am not following it anymore, I stick to many of the ideas behind it as far as getting in fruits/veggies, eating exercise calories, drinking water, and eating what I want. That being said... there are things I am choosing to not eat right now. I am looking at this as a lifestyle change and not a "diet", and I have actually made a lot of changes since I did WW. I think WW focuses too much on eating "diet" food (100 calorie snack packs, etc.) instead of making better choices. (I will admit that could have just been how I interpreted WW... and even doing portion control and snack packs was better than I was doing before WW!) I am focusing more now on making choices that I can make over a lifetime (okay, maybe depriving myself a little more than I will whenever I get to maintenance... but that is a *LONG* way off). I do not think that this lifestyle change means that I completely give up sweets... though I do find that as I eat healthier I don't want them much anymore. I do believe that eating sugar and fast food and sodas is something that is easier to quit/cut back on if you stay away for a bit... at least it has been for me. I can assure you that I have no plans right now to cut soda and chocolate out of my life forever!

I do agree that there are triggers that you probably need to stay away from. (Mine is Oreos! My plan for whenever I get a craving is to take them to a potluck or something, eat a couple, and leave the rest). There may be some routines you need to change (stopping for coffee every day... or getting fast food every day)... but overall I think that having the mindset of "deprivation" and "never being able to have ____ again" sets you up for failure, as others have said.

Callmefia

Nowhere in the word DIET do I see the word deprivation. I eat what I want, when I want, in moderation. If I want something bad enough, I go out and earn the calories for it.
Diet is the food you put in your body, and nothing else. It's your lifestyle. That's it. Why put watered down gas in your ferrari when you can afford to give it the very best stuff on the market instead?

I agree 100% with this whole statement. I tell her this constantly. I honestly believe that if I worked out for an hour every day, I could go without changing my eating habits and still lose weight. I don't think my eating habits are THAT BAD. My body tells me this because when I do too much of a defecit (right now MFP has me on about 1300 cals a day and it doesn't seem to be working), I don't lose weight. I only gain weight when I don't work out at all.

I also think, regardless of her work outs and losing enough weight to finally weigh less than me, I am in better shape. I take the stairs every day at work (she uses the elevator) and when she talks about a tough workout, she's talking about a Leslie Sansone (sp?) walking tape. I can work my way through several hour-long P90X videos.... I just need to stick with it!

THANKS FOR ALL THE POSITIVE COMMENTS!!!!!

aippolito1

Everyone is different. I haven't necessarly given up anything...I've just modified how often and how much of it I can/am going to have. The only thing I've really "given up" that I'm really trying to break is soda. I know it has high fructose corn syrup and it's so addicting, so I try to stay away from it as much as possible. The other thing, is anything I can't get the nutritional facts for unless I feel like I really can afford it. Everything else is either eaten in moderation or just as a once in a while treat when I absolutely can't resist.

I've gotten some great will power but sometimes I utterly fail. This last week has been hell food-wise, but I'm still learning so I don't beat myself up!!

Melis25Fit

I have a bowl of ice cream just about every night, and I usually top it with almonds or sunflower seeds or something too. Hasn't hurt me none. And "No nutritional value" is B.S. Ice cream is just food, a dairy product. Similar to yogurt, but with some sugar added. Nothing wrong with it.

This all comes down to calories in/calories out. If you have the calories for it and you want it, then eat it - duh! If you want it and you don't have the calories for it, get off your butt and earn some more calories. I try to get at least 1/2 hour of exercise every single day, and I'd be lying if I didn't say that earning those calories is a big part of my motivation. And that's Ok,,, your metab doesn't care why you're walking, it just knows you're walking, and it likes it.

Well said!

Callmefia

I do not think that this lifestyle change means that I completely give up sweets...

Thats what I told her that started the whole thing! lol. She just thinks that her lifestyle change means she has to give up her trigger foods forever. She honestly believe she will never have another one of her trigger foods for the rest of her life.
:laugh: :sad: :laugh: :sad:

ropsnik

I think it is all about making a lifestyle change. Fad diets and gimmics do not work. If you eat healthy and exercise, the weight comes off and you can improve overall health. And if you have an ice cream once in a while, then that is your reward to continue on.

LuckyLeprechaun

Maybe this is my wake up call yet again that I need to avoid this person for the rest of my life. Once in awhile I have these with this person and I just decide I can't be around her anymore. I avoid her for months and then we start talking again until this happens again.

I think you've nailed it there - she seems like a very negative person to have around you. To succeed (in weight loss as well as other things), you need to surround yourself with positivity. Sounds a bit new-age, but it's the truth.

As far as eating "bad" stuff, it's something that you learn to work around. Limit the portions and how often you indulge yourself, but you don't have to completely give up on ice cream or chocolate, you just need to be smart about it. I had a small hunk of chocolate last night, it was something I had been craving for a few days (and it was just as good as I thought it would be!), so I just had to move around the other things I ate so that I'd still be near my calorie goal for the day. Now I won't have any other sweets for a while, but it's OK as I don't even crave chocolate anymore - yesterday was enough for a while.

THIS is exactly what I was going to say.

Each person needs to find out what works best for them. Some folks can indulge a little and keep it under control without doing a lot of damage to their goals, some cant. But what strikes me is the underlying negativity you describe from this person. My mom can say to me- you need to lose 20 lbs, and it doesn't affect me because I don't question that she supports me and is saying it to remind me to stay on track. But the same kind of comment from someone who I do not like/trust would send me over the edge! If this person has a history with you that makes her feel toxic, then you will be doing yourself a favor by dumping her.

So enjoy your ice cream, but don't derail yourself, and get rid of the toxic unhappy people around you! That's my 2cents:flowerforyou:

bonnienm

I'd stay away from her! I can't see myself ever giving up my sugar either. I was told that I wouldn't be able to lose weight unless I gave up Dr. Pepper totally but I continued to drink 1 can a day and included it in my calories and lost 50 pounds. Guess I showed them! I never completely gave up sugar either but did cut way back. I love my sweets. But I think that's my biggest threat to gaining my weight back is the treats. Do what works for you and ignore what other people tell you that you have to do. The same things don't work for everyone especially if it's something you can't do. What annoys me is "fat" people that tell me what I should do to lose weight!

Good luck!

stacey76

Food addiction I think is worse then alcoholism....we need food to live, it's something we have to have everyday. Alcohol can be put "out of site, out of mind". Now don't get me wrong I think all addictions are hard to conquer but food has to be ate everyday so it's seen, smelt and thought about consistly. So with that being said I think everyone can truthfully say they've cheated at some point in their diet. So if you have a moment of weakness just make better choices. I've found the Skinny Cow ice creams are pretty good. Their french vanilla truffle bars are 100 calories, 2.5 fat, 18 carbs, 3 protein. Their ice cream sandwiches (like strawberry shortcake) is 140 calories, 2 fat, 30 carbs, 4 protein. You just have to plan on adjusting the other meals around you cravings and give in sometimes so you don't binge it. My biggest weakness is chips and dip....yesterday I think I ate a half a bag of cheetos...I could live off those things!!!!! But I know I need to get back on top of things today and start over. I hope this helps....
Stacey

sblim

Arguing about how to lose weight is like arguing about religion. Everyone can be right and wrong all at the same time.

dj_stevie_c

I've tried Weight Watchers and Slimming world. The problem I have with them is that they don't really explain what is going on, they give you points or tell you what you can/can't eat but the reality is, you can eat anything you like, as long as you're balancing and can follow it then you'll be fine.

If you want to eat 2000 cals of Chocolate, fine, but you're unbalanced and won't do your body any favors, but if you eat a 35g bar, probably around 300 cals, and then balance with lots of good food.... whats the problem?

Thats why I like this site, since I've been here I've been motivated enough to 'learn' what I should be looking for and try to make my own choices rather than say 'oh that's 5pts, that's this that's that" I know what I'm looking at, plus the food database here is a million times better than the Weight Watchers/Slimming world databases.

Knowelege is power.

But from the two programs I prefer Slimming world, I got nothing from Weight watchers really. on SW I did lose plenty but I didn't enjoy the classes. Plus they both cost plenty.... this site is free

jadenjo

I thing everyone is right on target. Do what you know works for yourself because you know yourself best. Whether or not you decide to continue a friendship with this person is your choice. I think you will always encounter people like this, though, and this might be a good opportunity to learn how to deal with these kind of comments. I think it's okay to say "that may work for you but i beg to differ so let's just agree to disagree". Some people have no idea that the things they say are offensive and I think it's good to let them politely know that it is. It's okay to tell her " I don't like having these conversations and I'd rather discuss more pleasant things for the sake of our friendship". I've gotten into conversations with people about different weight loss issues and some people are so black and white but I try to point out to them that a lot of theories haven't been proven for a fact. Just because you believe it doesn't necessarily make it so. If you think it works then great but I think the jury is still out on that one. That usually ends the arguement. Be good to yourself, and if that means an occasional treat or an ending of friendship then that's what you need to do. Wishing you the best.

lawkat

I have been on and off the WW bandwagon more times than I care to count. This time around I didn't do WW, but I wrote everything down and kept track of my calories. I made a point of never giving anything up, but eating it in moderation. I found that when I gave everything I loved up, the temptation to fall off the wagon was so easy. I still have my alcohol and chocolate and other foods I love, I just don't go overboard. I had to think about my approach to food and eating in moderation. I think that is the key. To give everything up doesn't work for most people. They feel as though they are missing out on something.

If you love ice cream, Ben & Jerry's makes these tiny single serving cups in a bunch of different flavors. You can have one of those every once in a while as part of your life and not go overboard by eating an entire pint, which really ends up being one serving and not 4 that they say it is.

Ryhenblue

You shouldn't have to give up any of the foods you enjoy. The point of this site is to learn portion control and how to stay within the calorie limits your body needs. Since you can only eat x amount of calories then the healthy options are more feasible since you can eat more of them and plus they are loaded with great stuff for you. If you feel like eating a serving of your favorite ice cream then there is no reason not to treat yourself. Ice cream does have some nutritional value by the way like protein and calcium.
As far as the weight watchers, I'd say save your money. You'll be doing yourself more good to learn how to eat healthy and portion control on your own. Plus you'll be able to cut out a lot of sodium and chemicals by not having to eat processed food every meal.