Toning
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People aren't talking down to you- they are trying to educate you.
If you have a more complete understanding of how your body works- I.E. toning is not a thing- you'll be more cabable and efficient at DOING what you want with it.
You can only do a few things.
Lose fat AND muscle
Lose fat build muscle.
gain fat/muscle- then cut.
you cannot convert tissue from to the other. You can even build muscle and not cut any fat- in which case you may actually LOOK bigger than you are because you won't have any definition.
People are trying to help you understand. Why are you getting angry that people are trying to help you?
And not to belabor the point- they aren't judging your grammar either- they are addressing your content and diction.0 -
So, you have to lose fat. This involves continuing to eat at a deficit.
I've seen this advice a few times now. But I really don't want to lose any more weight as I'm already underweight. And I believe the OP stated that she isn't interested in losing weight either -- isn't that an inevitable byproduct of eating at a deficit?0 -
So, you have to lose fat. This involves continuing to eat at a deficit.
I've seen this advice a few times now. But I really don't want to lose any more weight as I'm already underweight. And I believe the OP stated that she isn't interested in losing weight either -- isn't that an inevitable byproduct of eating at a deficit?
Not necessarily. If you are eating at a deficit and doing no exercise or cardio only, you are losing a combination of fat and muscle. If you add in resistance training (and I'm not talking 30 Day Shred here, I mean actual, lifting with a decent amount o weights) you hang on to muscle. You won't build much, but since muscle is denser than fat, if you're holding onto muscle and mostly losing fat, you'll see the jiggle start to go (in theory) and possibly get smaller, size-wise, but the scale won't move as much.
And, you might not want to lose more weight, but if you want to "tone up" you MUST lose the fat. You can't make fat less jiggly or "tighter". You just have to get it gone. So, the scale might go down. If you don't like the way you look, go on a bulk, eat at a surplus, cut back on cardio, lift HEAVY. A little fat will come with that, but mostly muscle, if you do it right, and the added muscle/weight will look better, even with a bit of added fat, then being jiggly/high body fat, if that makes sense.
In your case, if you're under weight, a bulk is something I'd encourage you to consider. It can be of a mindf@ck to intentionally gain weight and eat over your maintenance, but you'll gain some muscle, and if you decide you need to cut fat, you will hopefully hold on to your muscle, so the scale number won't drop drastically.0 -
I've seen this advice a few times now. But I really don't want to lose any more weight as I'm already underweight. And I believe the OP stated that she isn't interested in losing weight either -- isn't that an inevitable byproduct of eating at a deficit?
Right, but she wants to lose FAT, so that would mean eating at a deficit.0 -
Incorrectly used though. For instance you don't "tune" a car engine. You "tune up" a car engine. Correct terminology applies to muscle too. You don't "tone" muscle, you "tone up" muscle. You don't it by "toning" exercises, you do specific exercises with weights."Toning" isn't a thing. Are you trying to gain muscle or lose fat?
It's only "not a thing" for people looking split hairs over semantics.
We all know what the OP was essentially asking.
I think the point of her post wasn't to split hairs but rather to educate the OP that muscles cannot be 'toned'.
Oh really?
I'd say you can tone muscles from a strength training programme combined with a calorie controlled diet.
"Tone" is just a word.
Bak to my original point - in layman's terms, yes toning exists. It means losing fat whilst maintaining muscle mass.0 -
You're not holding a lot of fat so most likely you don't need cardio - yet.
I can only tell you what I have done and that is to spend a few months just lifting weights and weight training. I started at 105 and I am 107 now yet my body fat went from 17% to 13% and I'm stronger now than ever. If you want to "tone" that means build muscle and reduce fat. So start lifting and then slowly over time add in some cardio but by all means don't just do cardio.
and weight training burns calories and fat too so dont feel like not doing cardio isn't going to help change your shape, trust me it will.
JMO0 -
stop trying to lose weight and start researching how to cut.
loosing weight is just SO generic- and you'll get every site under the sun. if you start researching how to cut- you'll get more advice from people who do it.
Above all bodybuilders are professional dieters- they know how to make the bf go away.0 -
Incorrectly used though. For instance you don't "tune" a car engine. You "tune up" a car engine. Correct terminology applies to muscle too. You don't "tone" muscle, you "tone up" muscle. You don't it by "toning" exercises, you do specific exercises with weights."Toning" isn't a thing. Are you trying to gain muscle or lose fat?
It's only "not a thing" for people looking split hairs over semantics.
We all know what the OP was essentially asking.
I think the point of her post wasn't to split hairs but rather to educate the OP that muscles cannot be 'toned'.
Oh really?
I'd say you can tone muscles from a strength training programme combined with a calorie controlled diet.
"Tone" is just a word.
I despise the word because the fitness industry disguised it to try to FOOL women into thinking that "toning" wasn't lifting weights. They did it specifically because females spend more money on body improvement then men and figured if they could somehow get females to think differently about lifting, they could incorporate classes with this wording and of course make more money. So rather than tell the truth, they chose to masquerade it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Wait are you kidding me? It's incorrect to say "tone" but "tone up" is perfectly fine with you? Where are you, Australia? I have never in my entire long life heard anyone speak of "toning UP" muscles in my part of the word. Maybe these fine points are just a distraction when MFP has members from all over the world.0 -
This is exactly what I was getting at. People think you can "tone," "lengthen," "shape," etc. their muscles. You can do three things to your muscles: gain more, maintain current muscle mass, or lose it. End of list. You can get stronger without getting bigger (myofibrillar hypertrophy) but that's not relative to size.
Incorrectly used though. For instance you don't "tune" a car engine. You "tune up" a car engine. Correct terminology applies to muscle too. You don't "tone" muscle, you "tone up" muscle. You don't it by "toning" exercises, you do specific exercises with weights."Toning" isn't a thing. Are you trying to gain muscle or lose fat?
It's only "not a thing" for people looking split hairs over semantics.
We all know what the OP was essentially asking.
I think the point of her post wasn't to split hairs but rather to educate the OP that muscles cannot be 'toned'.
Oh really?
I'd say you can tone muscles from a strength training programme combined with a calorie controlled diet.
"Tone" is just a word.
I despise the word because the fitness industry disguised it to try to FOOL women into thinking that "toning" wasn't lifting weights. They did it specifically because females spend more money on body improvement then men and figured if they could somehow get females to think differently about lifting, they could incorporate classes with this wording and of course make more money. So rather than tell the truth, they chose to masquerade it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Not true. See here for a discussion, with citations for several studies: http://greatist.com/fitness/afterburn-effect-keep-burning-calories-after-workoutStrength training is a great calorie burner as you get an after burn affect for hours afterwards, compared to cardio that stops burning calories the minute you stop exercising.0 -
bump.0
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"Toning" isn't a thing. Are you trying to gain muscle or lose fat?
Muscle tone is a real thing and it is affected by the exercises that you do. I don't know who decided to tell the MFP community that muscle tone is a myth but it was wrong then and it is wrong now. Muscle tone is a real thing. There is no ambiguity here.
They are completely wrong.
to·nic·i·ty
[toh-nis-i-tee] Show IPA
noun
1. tonic quality or condition.
2. the state of bodily tone.
3. Physiology . the normal elastic tension of living muscles, arteries, etc., by which the tone of the system is maintained.
tone[tohn] Show IPA noun, verb, toned, ton·ing.
noun
12.
Physiology .
a.the normal state of tension or responsiveness of the organs or tissues of the body.
b.that state of the body or of an organ in which all its functions are performed with healthy vigor.
hy·per·to·ni·a
[hahy-per-toh-nee-uh] Show IPA
noun Pathology .
increased rigidity, tension, and spasticity of the muscles.0 -
Incorrectly used though. For instance you don't "tune" a car engine. You "tune up" a car engine. Correct terminology applies to muscle too. You don't "tone" muscle, you "tone up" muscle. You don't it by "toning" exercises, you do specific exercises with weights."Toning" isn't a thing. Are you trying to gain muscle or lose fat?
It's only "not a thing" for people looking split hairs over semantics.
We all know what the OP was essentially asking.
I think the point of her post wasn't to split hairs but rather to educate the OP that muscles cannot be 'toned'.
Oh really?
I'd say you can tone muscles from a strength training programme combined with a calorie controlled diet.
"Tone" is just a word.
I despise the word because the fitness industry disguised it to try to FOOL women into thinking that "toning" wasn't lifting weights. They did it specifically because females spend more money on body improvement then men and figured if they could somehow get females to think differently about lifting, they could incorporate classes with this wording and of course make more money. So rather than tell the truth, they chose to masquerade it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Ok you can't actually do that. What you are doing is more a verbal slide of hand and I am not even sure if you realize you are doing it. Muscle tone is a real thing and the word tone is the correct word. Trust me on this it comes up all the time in physiology.
You hate the word not because of any denotation. You hate it because of a connotation. The problem is no matter how much you hate a word that doesn't make it stop existing and more importantly the concept itself that the word is attempting to serve as a label for will exist regardless of your opinions about the word.
In a purely scientific parlance where emotion is completely removed muscle tone is used when talking about rigidity, tension, and spasticity of the muscles. That is a fact even if your hatred of the word is justified. Even if everything else you said is true muscle tone will still be muscle tone. You could come up with a different word for it if you like the it won't change what is.0 -
Not necessarily. If you are eating at a deficit and doing no exercise or cardio only, you are losing a combination of fat and muscle. If you add in resistance training (and I'm not talking 30 Day Shred here, I mean actual, lifting with a decent amount o weights) you hang on to muscle. You won't build much, but since muscle is denser than fat, if you're holding onto muscle and mostly losing fat, you'll see the jiggle start to go (in theory) and possibly get smaller, size-wise, but the scale won't move as much.
And, you might not want to lose more weight, but if you want to "tone up" you MUST lose the fat. You can't make fat less jiggly or "tighter". You just have to get it gone. So, the scale might go down. If you don't like the way you look, go on a bulk, eat at a surplus, cut back on cardio, lift HEAVY. A little fat will come with that, but mostly muscle, if you do it right, and the added muscle/weight will look better, even with a bit of added fat, then being jiggly/high body fat, if that makes sense.
In your case, if you're under weight, a bulk is something I'd encourage you to consider. It can be of a mindf@ck to intentionally gain weight and eat over your maintenance, but you'll gain some muscle, and if you decide you need to cut fat, you will hopefully hold on to your muscle, so the scale number won't drop drastically.
It looks like I was on the right track anyway, since lifting heavy was my original intent. Just that it's going to take me a helluva long time to get to the "heavy" part as I'm seriously struggling with 20 and 30 lbs after several weeks and it doesn't look like I'll be able to increase that any time soon.
So I think I'll leave the "bulk" part until I can actually lift a decent amount of weight.
I'm stuck with at least some daily cardio for heart health (doctor's orders) as I have idiopathic hypertension.0 -
You have no idea what you are talking about."Toning" isn't a thing. Are you trying to gain muscle or lose fat?
Muscle tone is a real thing and it is affected by the exercises that you do. I don't know who decided to tell the MFP community that muscle tone is a myth but it was wrong then and it is wrong now. Muscle tone is a real thing. There is no ambiguity here.
They are completely wrong.
to·nic·i·ty
[toh-nis-i-tee] Show IPA
noun
1. tonic quality or condition.
2. the state of bodily tone.
3. Physiology . the normal elastic tension of living muscles, arteries, etc., by which the tone of the system is maintained.
tone[tohn] Show IPA noun, verb, toned, ton·ing.
noun
12.
Physiology .
a.the normal state of tension or responsiveness of the organs or tissues of the body.
b.that state of the body or of an organ in which all its functions are performed with healthy vigor.
hy·per·to·ni·a
[hahy-per-toh-nee-uh] Show IPA
noun Pathology .
increased rigidity, tension, and spasticity of the muscles.
Here, I'll prove it. Please list some exercises and how the will differently impact muscle tone... I'm not holding my breath.0 -
You have no idea what you are talking about."Toning" isn't a thing. Are you trying to gain muscle or lose fat?
Muscle tone is a real thing and it is affected by the exercises that you do. I don't know who decided to tell the MFP community that muscle tone is a myth but it was wrong then and it is wrong now. Muscle tone is a real thing. There is no ambiguity here.
They are completely wrong.
to·nic·i·ty
[toh-nis-i-tee] Show IPA
noun
1. tonic quality or condition.
2. the state of bodily tone.
3. Physiology . the normal elastic tension of living muscles, arteries, etc., by which the tone of the system is maintained.
tone[tohn] Show IPA noun, verb, toned, ton·ing.
noun
12.
Physiology .
a.the normal state of tension or responsiveness of the organs or tissues of the body.
b.that state of the body or of an organ in which all its functions are performed with healthy vigor.
hy·per·to·ni·a
[hahy-per-toh-nee-uh] Show IPA
noun Pathology .
increased rigidity, tension, and spasticity of the muscles.
Here, I'll prove it. Please list some exercises and how the will differently impact muscle tone... I'm not holding my breath.
I am a bit torn. On the one hand I do like getting in to detail about nerdy topics but on the other hand I strongly suspect that you are just trolling me and you really don't actually care about what I have to say. It could be that you already have your conclusion in your mind.
You are actually asking if I can list exercises and explain how they differently impact muscle tone. This is a question which you are assuming has no actual answer.
As much as I hate using wikipedia as a source I do not have the luxury of getting your more scholarly sources at the moment it is put decently well here.
"If a sudden pull or stretch occurs, the body responds by automatically increasing the muscle's tension, a reflex which helps guard against danger as well as helping to maintain balance. Such near-continuous innervation can be thought of as a "default" or "steady state" condition for muscles. There is, for the most part, no actual "rest state" insofar as activation is concerned. Both the extensor and flexor muscles are involved in the maintenance of a constant tone while "at rest". In skeletal muscles, this helps maintain a normal posture." ~ O’Sullivan, S. B. (2007). Examination of motor function: Motor control and motor learning. In S. B. O’Sullivan, & T. J. Schmitz (Eds), Physical rehabilitation (5th ed.) (pp. 233-234). Philadelphia, PA: F. A. Davis Company.
So you see any exercise that causes you to pull or stretch the muscle will cause the body to increase the muscle's tension. I interpret that to mean that in some respect all exercises will have some sort of affect on your muscle tone as tension and rigidity are factors of muscle tone. As you do more exercises over the course of more time the muscles become train to respond better to the repeated stress they are being subjected to.
My major was actually in IT so I am not nearly as well verse as my friends who's majors were in more closely related fields. I can still remember enough from my classes that muscle tone is a real thing and it is studied every single day by people across multiple disciplines.
I can understand taking issue with a connotation especially if its purpose is to scam money out of women like one of the other posters was talking about but that doesn't eliminate the actual reality that muscle tone itself does exist. Since it is pretty much indisputable that muscle tone does exist and it has a definition (see above). It is easy enough to understand that toning a muscle is basically the act of improving muscle tone.
I have given you way more here than most people would give you on a chat forum such as this and I don't even know if you care what my answer is or if you will even read all of this. I think my position is logical and it is supported by observable evidence. If you disagree with it please offer me your well thought out answer and if I find that I am in error anywhere I will twist my position to become more consistent with the facts. I will not twist facts to become consistent with my position I assure you.0 -
you just described muscles firing. i fail to see what that has to do with tone outside of using the word tone..0
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"Toning" isn't a thing. Are you trying to gain muscle or lose fat?
Muscle tone is a real thing and it is affected by the exercises that you do. I don't know who decided to tell the MFP community that muscle tone is a myth but it was wrong then and it is wrong now. Muscle tone is a real thing. There is no ambiguity here.
They are completely wrong.
to·nic·i·ty
[toh-nis-i-tee] Show IPA
noun
1. tonic quality or condition.
2. the state of bodily tone.
3. Physiology . the normal elastic tension of living muscles, arteries, etc., by which the tone of the system is maintained.
tone[tohn] Show IPA noun, verb, toned, ton·ing.
noun
12.
Physiology .
a.the normal state of tension or responsiveness of the organs or tissues of the body.
b.that state of the body or of an organ in which all its functions are performed with healthy vigor.
hy·per·to·ni·a
[hahy-per-toh-nee-uh] Show IPA
noun Pathology .
increased rigidity, tension, and spasticity of the muscles.
Tonicity has almost nothing to do with the exercises you do, it is mainly neurological. Both hypertonia and hypotonia are primarily symptoms of underlying neurological conditions such as multiple sclerosis or TBI such as from head injury. Muscle tonicity is essentially what you have in the absence of any underlying neurological condition. You don't affect it. Think of it this way, tonicity is like homeostasis, and going in either direction results in a disorder.0 -
It has no definition. That's why it's subjective to many. You don't need to be a professional to learn correct terminology. But I digress. I've conveyed why the word was made up.
Incorrectly used though. For instance you don't "tune" a car engine. You "tune up" a car engine. Correct terminology applies to muscle too. You don't "tone" muscle, you "tone up" muscle. You don't it by "toning" exercises, you do specific exercises with weights."Toning" isn't a thing. Are you trying to gain muscle or lose fat?
It's only "not a thing" for people looking split hairs over semantics.
We all know what the OP was essentially asking.
I think the point of her post wasn't to split hairs but rather to educate the OP that muscles cannot be 'toned'.
Oh really?
I'd say you can tone muscles from a strength training programme combined with a calorie controlled diet.
"Tone" is just a word.
Bak to my original point - in layman's terms, yes toning exists. It means losing fat whilst maintaining muscle mass.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
"Toning" isn't a thing. Are you trying to gain muscle or lose fat?
It's only "not a thing" for people looking split hairs over semantics.
We all know what the OP was essentially asking.
I think the point of her post wasn't to split hairs but rather to educate the OP that muscles cannot be 'toned'.
Oh really?
I'd say you can tone muscles from a strength training programme combined with a calorie controlled diet.
"Tone" is just a word.
This is correct. Tone is just a word which begs the question why you have such an attachment to it.
The people here are trying to tell you something maybe I'll shout so you can hear it.
YOU CAN'T TONE A MUSCLE!!!
Saying you can tone a muscle is like saying 'I want to lose weight and gain muscle.'
It's an incorrect statement. Get over it unless you like getting hassled about it.0
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