I want to do stronglifts 5x5, however......

craigmandu

Let me preface to say that I am a HUGE proponent to strength training. Anyone that has seen my replies on threads on this board could probably attest to that. However, even those of us that have been "into" fitness, or "into" it in the past (me specifically), sometimes we need a little advice.

To be quite frank, I'm afraid of injury. I am missing parts of my L4/L5 and L5/S1 lower back discs as a result of 2 back surgeries (2004 and 2008). I have been "out" of the gym so to speak since about 2000. I haven't been exercising hardly any at all since 2008, as I took extreme care to ensure my back healed completely. I do NOT want to go through what I went through in 2008, it was complete and utter hell.

Now...I am highly motivated to get back into lifting. I have discussed this with my neurosurgeon, who is a great guy and has given me some very specific criteria...he first told me...ease back into it..don't go heavy right away and ensure you do some conditioning prior to starting a lifting routine to ensure your overall muscles are more ready to support the weight.

I'm all for that, so I have decided to start a small bodyweight circuit 3x a week M/W/F...light at first until I am ready to "up the ante" so to speak.

My current circuit is simply 4 exercises...Pushups/bodyweight squats/pullups/30 degree situps (30 degree to ensure I don't put undue pressure on my lower back)...I'm following the "100" series of "challenges" and figure once I reach those levels, I should have enough general conditioning to start an actual lifting routine.

I also chose to do this to give me time to decide whether or not I want to do the lifting routine at home, or at an actual gym....my doc has told me to wear a weight lifting belt at ALL times, even on low weight to give myself extra support, and I've agreed to do that...so I don't know how I'd feel about wearing a belt and doing squats in the gym with just the bar...seems silly to me to care, but for some reason I do.

I lived in the gym for a number of years...1992-1997 ish...and I always did a 3x8 routine for lifting, once I hit 8 reps, I upped the weight, which dropped me back to 5-6 etc..etc..

So I have some questions for those that do 5x5 or a similar routine. Do you see it being "much" better than a 3x8? Do you think the current bodyweight circuit I do is sufficient to "prepare" my body to tackle this? Do you think I'm being too ambitious in this goal?

I have the thickest skin on the planet..tell it like it is, no bullsh1t..I don't need to be coddled, I appreciate any input that is given.

I think ya'll are great!

craigmandu

Shameless bump!

bfinup

I love strong lifts...
However... I don't think it's the end all be all of programs.

It might be a little too much for your back in regards to squatting three times a week, but that's something you need to figure out. My biggest input would be start light... The bar or lighter if you need to. There is no shame in it. I did it... And it was embarrassing... But you quickly move up in weight. Just like wearing the belt. It may be embarrassing but it'd probably be more embarrassing to get hurt again because you didn't want to hurt your pride.


As for 5x5 or 3x5 or 3x8 it's really all the same and what is important is doing what works for you.

Your current body weight routine is more than sufficient and once you get past a certain number of reps you're working muscle endurance any, so I would start any you feel comfortable... Not necessarily when you complete your 100 reps.

erinsueburns

I am going to agree that Strong Lifts as it stands might not be the best program for you. But that doesn't mean that you can't do those same exercises and modify output for your needs. In this you are a special snowflake As for the weight belt, maybe wear two shirts with one over the weight belt so you feel less conspicuous. As for current conditioning, I used the nerdfitness body weight circuits to condition my body before starting my current strength training program, you might check that out. Though I will say I don't see the point in any kind of sit-ups and really don't see the point in your case unless it is something Dr. prescribed. They aren't a great ab exercise anyway.

bfinup

He says 30 degree sit ups... I assume he means crunches... Which are an amazing ab exercise

BeachIron

I couldn't handle squatting that often. I'm currently using Wendler's 5/3/1 because it works FOR ME. I do barbell squats and straight legged deads on one day and deadlifts and front squats on another. I've also upped the amount of accessories I do on my legs but I only hit them twice a week, and I do a number of body weight exercises. I fit in cardio where I can. All programs have their advantages and disadvantages and you should feel free to adapt them to your own goals and abilities.

Are you able to use a roman chair?

SoViLicious

I love stonglifts, lately I have been wanting to do more. I will keep an eye out on this thread.

LoraF83

Strong lifts is a great beginner program.

You seem to have previous experience, so I would *not* label you a beginner. There are other programs that may be more effective for you. Perhaps something with splits, so you aren't working the same areas every day? Perhaps a routine created by a (knowledgeable) trainer or physical therapist that will help you maximize your gym work while still being adaptive to your concerns about your back?

I like Wender 5/3/1 - I switched last week and it's working well for me so far. I like only hitting one major lift per day and then filling in some accessory work. I was having overuse problems with Strong Lifts - squatting 3x a week was too much, since I also run 3x a week. Now, I program my squat day with a rest day after it. That way, I'm giving my legs a chance to recover while still getting the most out of my schedule.

I think body weight is an excellent way to start. Once your basic routine is feeling easier, you could look at "You Are Your Own Gym" or a plan from Nerd Fitness. An advanced body weight routine might help you bridge the gap from body weight to barbell.

And don't worry about the belt thing. F* them if they care enough to comment. But I'm sure no one will

craigmandu

I couldn't handle squatting that often. I'm currently using Wendler's 5/3/1 because it works FOR ME. I do barbell squats and straight legged deads on one day and deadlifts and front squats on another. I've also upped the amount of accessories I do on my legs but I only hit them twice a week, and I do a number of body weight exercises. I fit in cardio where I can. All programs have their advantages and disadvantages and you should feel free to adapt them to your own goals and abilities.

Are you able to use a roman chair?

I have not tried a roman chair....primarily because I'm not in the gym right now...and it does scare me a "little".

I have alot of trepidation where back straining is concerned. I probably won't go strict 5x5 to start...as max weight for 5 reps seems a bit "dangerous" to me...I'll probably start on a 3x8 to begin with, so I can go with a slightly lighter weight overall. I will check out 5/3/1, I looked at it a while back, but I may revisit that.

The only reason I'm doing any type of "ab" work is because the doc wanted me to do some kind of core strengthening before I got started.

erinsueburns

He says 30 degree sit ups... I assume he means crunches... Which are an amazing ab exercise

If I remember from previous bouts with physical therapy, a 30 degree situp is different from crunches in that the lower back is still supposed to come off the floor with the 30 degree sit up where it doesn't with the crunch.

But sit ups are as much a hip and leg exercise as they are abdominal, because people really can't just isolate their abs in that sort of motion. I'd put abdominal holds or jack-knifes above crunches every time.

bfinup

He says 30 degree sit ups... I assume he means crunches... Which are an amazing ab exercise

If I remember from previous bouts with physical therapy, a 30 degree situp is different from crunches in that the lower back is still supposed to come off the floor with the 30 degree sit up where it doesn't with the crunch.

But sit ups are as much a hip and leg exercise as they are abdominal, because people really can't just isolate their abs in that sort of motion. I'd put abdominal holds or jack-knifes above crunches every time.

Ah I stand corrected.

craigmandu

He says 30 degree sit ups... I assume he means crunches... Which are an amazing ab exercise

If I remember from previous bouts with physical therapy, a 30 degree situp is different from crunches in that the lower back is still supposed to come off the floor with the 30 degree sit up where it doesn't with the crunch.

But sit ups are as much a hip and leg exercise as they are abdominal, because people really can't just isolate their abs in that sort of motion. I'd put abdominal holds or jack-knifes above crunches every time.

I could change that up...I'm not married to the stuff I'm doing right now...I can see incorporating a plank/lateral or bicycles or some such.

StrongAtLast

I didn't have back surgery, but I do have 2 herniated Lower discs. I can only imagine your fear.
I have a harder time with squats with heavy weight and low reps.
so I was doing FRONT squats with a db. That put less pressure on my back (like GOBLET squats)..so you don't have that bar "pushing" on your spine.
But I am trying the stronglifts. I'm on week 2. I started w/just the bar and so far the weight still isn't that heavy, so my back is ok. I'm really really really focusing on form and breathing. I figure once it starts getting heavier and it bugs me, then I'll do something else...or maybe it will strengthen me up more and my back will be able to handle it because it's slowly. Stonglifts suggests 5lbs each time, to increase. I'm going 3lbs. So real slow, but that's ok.

MyOwnSunshine

I'd recommend New Rules of Lifting for Life. I'm a huge fan of the NROL plans -- finished NROL for Women and am working on NROL Supercharged now. They are great fitness/conditioning/strength plans.

NROL for Life is geared towards people who have limitations and allows you to create and adjust a balanced fitness plan that accomodates your limitations.

BeachIron

I couldn't handle squatting that often. I'm currently using Wendler's 5/3/1 because it works FOR ME. I do barbell squats and straight legged deads on one day and deadlifts and front squats on another. I've also upped the amount of accessories I do on my legs but I only hit them twice a week, and I do a number of body weight exercises. I fit in cardio where I can. All programs have their advantages and disadvantages and you should feel free to adapt them to your own goals and abilities.

Are you able to use a roman chair?

I have not tried a roman chair....primarily because I'm not in the gym right now...and it does scare me a "little".

I have alot of trepidation where back straining is concerned. I probably won't go strict 5x5 to start...as max weight for 5 reps seems a bit "dangerous" to me...I'll probably start on a 3x8 to begin with, so I can go with a slightly lighter weight overall. I will check out 5/3/1, I looked at it a while back, but I may revisit that.

The only reason I'm doing any type of "ab" work is because the doc wanted me to do some kind of core strengthening before I got started.

My only suggestions are to listen to your doctor, as it sounds like you found a good one, and find some type of lower back exercise that you can do, whatever that may be. I think someone already mentioned the website nerdfitness and it's definitely worth looking at. Ab work is different for all people so start experimenting with exercises that work for you. Totally agree with the idea of building up slowly!

DrMAvDPhD

As someone else with back problems I think you should talk to your orthopedic surgeon before starting any new program. Nothing is worth causing further damage or undoing the work you've had done.

My ortho encourages me in my lifting pursuits but cautions me to take things slow. I haven't had spinal fusion though so I don't mean to imply this will be true for you.

BusyRaeNOTBusty

I agree that squats every day probably wouldn't be ideal for you, nor would the low reps. I don't know enough about the programs out there to recommend one, but I'd keep looking, or yeah, modify it to 3x8, and switch squats to every other workout (this actually what I've been doing lately, then throwing in some accessories).

GiddyupTim

I am a stickler for a full range of motion, and I find it is easier, and I can get to it with better form, when I do 3 X 8. I go a bit lighter at 3 X 8 than I do at 5 X 5. Somehow too, the next day I feel that I have had a better workout; I don't know if that is actually true or not.
I try to go to 10 reps, then I raise the weight.
But, i also lift only about two times a week.

jlapey

I had absolutely no lifting experience whatsoever before I started a few months ago. I did research and watched videos and asked questions in regard to proper form. I'm not sure what to tell you about your back injury but if your doc is okay with it, I would give a try. I do Strong Lifts 5 x 5 and I like it a lot. It just started getting really difficult in the last two weeks. You start with just the bar and advance 5 pounds each session. Perhaps, if you want to take it a little slower, you could invest in some fractional plates and advance only 2.5 pounds (or less) each session. I'm starting to do that soon. Just waiting for my plates to arrive.

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&keywords=fractional weight plates&page=1&rh=i:aps,k:fractional weight plates

craigmandu

Thanks for the reinforcement. It is appreciated. I am consulting with the neurosurgeon that performed both my disc-ectomies, and he has given me a pretty good once over, as well as new MRIs to ensure I'm no longer "missing space" in the lumbar region. Apparently, according to him, I should be okay to try some strenuous stuff as long as it is a slow moving train and I pay extreme attention to form and stop at the first signs of pain (which I would probably do anyway, as I'm hypersensitive to that).

Appreciate the suggestions...hopefully I let my mind do the thinking, and don't get overconfident...us men tend to do that when we don't feel bad to begin with.

Mrsallypants

BB rows, BB squat, overhead press, and deadlift with a terribly damaged lower back? I wouldn't suggest it.

Leg press, frog squat, leg ext, sissy squat are good alternatives to BB squat when lower back is blown. Do pull ups and chin ups instead of BB rows. For lower back do lying hyperextensions and planks.

There are far more ways to get fit and muscular than just with the Stronglifts program.

bumblebums

Looks like you've received a lot of advice already, but here's my take on it. In order to do either squats or deadlifts, you need to have a good awareness of your lower back and a lot of strength there. If you don't know whether you are rounding your lower back, you're in trouble.

Yoga helped me figure out how my lower back works (and I've struggled with severe lower back pain since I was a teenager). It's not the be-all and end-all, and it might not be appropriate for someone with your type of injury, at least not without modification. But, after more than a decade of yoga, I definitely know what my lower back is doing.

Something you could try as a preparation for squats and deadlifts is back extensions on a Roman bench. Possibly with weight added as you get stronger (you just hold a plate or a dumbbell in your arms as you do the extensions).

0OneTwo3

Stronglifts 5x5 is an interesting Choice for someone recovering from a lower back injury. Most people in your situation seem to switch to Machines where they have there back supported at all times. This will let the stabilizing Musculature of the back go weak though. So i do think you're on the right track.

5x5 or 3x8 Makes no difference in terms of safety. You will have to stay away from Max-Effort. So do 5x5 with weights you could do 6 reps with since grinding out the last rep and risking a break in form puts pressure on the spine with almost all compound lifts.

Finally i would suggest replacing Situps with an Exercise that targets the core as a whole. Something where you don't need to round your back like ab rollouts. this will train the smaller muscles in you lower back to make sure it is ready to stabilize your spine once you start doing things like deadlifts again.

bumblebums

Stronglifts 5x5 is an interesting Choice for someone recovering from a lower back injury. Most people in your situation seem to switch to Machines where they have there back supported at all times. This will let the stabilizing Musculature of the back go weak though. So i do think you're on the right track.

5x5 or 3x8 Makes no difference in terms of safety. You will have to stay away from Max-Effort. So do 5x5 with weights you could do 6 reps with since grinding out the last rep and risking a break in form puts pressure on the spine with almost all compound lifts.

Finally i would suggest replacing Situps with an Exercise that targets the core as a whole. Something where you don't need to round your back like ab rollouts. this will train the smaller muscles in you lower back make sure it is ready to stabilize your spine onece you start doing things like deadlifts again.

I agree, situps suck if you have back problems. Crunches aren't that good an idea, either. There are ways to strengthen the core that do not require rounding the back; look for those.

craigmandu

Stronglifts 5x5 is an interesting Choice for someone recovering from a lower back injury. Most people in your situation seem to switch to Machines where they have there back supported at all times. This will let the stabilizing Musculature of the back go weak though. So i do think you're on the right track.

5x5 or 3x8 Makes no difference in terms of safety. You will have to stay away from Max-Effort. So do 5x5 with weights you could do 6 reps with since grinding out the last rep and risking a break in form puts pressure on the spine with almost all compound lifts.

Finally i would suggest replacing Situps with an Exercise that targets the core as a whole. Something where you don't need to round your back like ab rollouts. this will train the smaller muscles in you lower back make sure it is ready to stabilize your spine onece you start doing things like deadlifts again.

I agree, situps suck if you have back problems. Crunches aren't that good an idea, either. There are ways to strengthen the core that do not require rounding the back; look for those.

This is good advice. I could pick an ab wheel up at walmart for like $10 or something. I'm also considering modifying with planks and side planks. I think I will do this...will also engage the stabilizers in the lower back as I roll out. Thanks for this.