Squats question!

HelloDan

The never let the knees go over the toes argument is a massive oversimplification.

Someone with a shorter femur (upper leg), won't need to move the knees over the toes, but someone with a longer femur will have to to hit the same depth, unless they want to fall on their backside.

Also, not everyone with the same height and leg proportions has the same shoe size, so does that mean that if I had a clone who only wore size 9 shoes compared my 12s, that we would have to squat differently, despite the rest of our physiology being the same?


Also the baby argument is a bit of a fallacy, that is unless I'm just weird for not having a massive head relative to the rest of my body, and for having less bones!

jimmmer

Basically, ATG will put more emphasis on the posterior chain. I find I get more glute and hamstring engagement with this style.

I would also chime in with those who said it's easier to go ATG with a higher bar placement. The same holds true for front squats and their variants, too.

As far as knees going over toes, it's a matter of the way nature's dealt your hand. I don't see anything wrong with it. As long as your knees are tracking your toes - this is more important to keep your knees safe.

Whatever you do, you should aim to break parallel, whether you go down ATG or not. Obviously if you're working on a sticking point and using a variant squat assistance exercise, you can go higher than parallel. Somebody already mentioned this with regards to Westside, where you cycle through variants to overcome sticking points, rather than making an above-parallel squat a regular training habit.

Lovestoscrapbook

Took healthy back/healthy knees class taught by physical therapist and she also said to not let knees go past toes. I would rather train slow and consistent and not risk a knee replacement. The ones I have now may be knobby but original is best...

mstjmack26

Another vote for below parallel. Stick your *kitten* out far enough and your knees won't go out past your toes

phjorg1

knees over toes is fine. only clueless fools claim otherwise. look at every oly lifter ever squat. notice their knees. this stupid myth only came about because new squatters tend to kneel. so pt's make a catch all saying of keep knees in front of toes to try and prevent kneeling to save knees that way. but if knees past toes was dangerous then humans would be unable to walk up stairs safely...

helpfit101

Coaches at gyms usually don't let you go to parallel or below. They are afraid you'll hurt yourself.

I got a hurt knee before (doing hardly any weight) myself. My technique was just wrong and I went too fast too quick. So that's why staying above parallel is a good idea for the first 1-2 years of your fitness career.

After that, well it's all up to you. Below parallel is best range of motion and range of motion is king IF you can do it safely without getting injured. And if you're fairly experienced you probably can. If you have to ask probably stay slightly above parallel.

phjorg1

do not listen to the above. above parallel means your knees will experience more strain than below parallel due to less posterior chain muscle groups firing to brake load. always aim to go low. this is all explained in any lifting guide suggested on these forums like ss, sl or new rules.

jimmmer

do not listen to the above. above parallel means your knees will experience more strain than below parallel due to less posterior chain muscle groups firing to brake load. always aim to go low. this is all explained in any lifting guide suggested on these forums like ss, sl or new rules.

I have to agree with this. Repeatedly squatting above parallel is more likely to hurt your knees than breaking parallel. It's okay in special circumstances, but not as your regular squatting movement.

There's a lot of crappy info out there from people who don't really know better - i.e. people who don't squat regularly and haven't spent a lot of time wrangling with the minutiae of form adjustments on the way to building a nice squat. Forums like this are full of people parroting third hand info they overheard from a second-rate trainer at a gym or got from a friend who's daughter's been through physical therapy. I'll take people like Wendler, Rippetoe, Dan john, etc. any day when it comes to these things. i.e. people who've lived it.....

helpfit101

Hi the previous two posters seem fairly adamant so I will correct my recommendation and just tell you to be careful either way

Sarauk2sf

Coaches at gyms usually don't let you go to parallel or below. They are afraid you'll hurt yourself.

I got a hurt knee before (doing hardly any weight) myself. My technique was just wrong and I went too fast too quick. So that's why staying above parallel is a good idea for the first 1-2 years of your fitness career.

After that, well it's all up to you. Below parallel is best range of motion and range of motion is king IF you can do it safely without getting injured. And if you're fairly experienced you probably can. If you have to ask probably stay slightly above parallel.

Ignore this. Make sure you can get your form down with light weight, don't avoid it as you will never get the right form.

danimalkeys

I've done literally thousands of reps of high box squats with some pretty heavy weights over the years and have no knee issues, so my personal experience is that squatting high doesn't hurt your knees. Nor does it not work your posterior chain as people seem to think (at least, when you use a wide stance like I do). That said, I have also worked thousands of reps of ATG pause squats, parallel depth competition type squats, box squats on below parallel and parallel height boxes, front squats, overhead squats, etc, with various width stances. They are all good for you.

One thing I see being offered as advice that I can't agree with is using a bounce at the bottom of the lift to gain momentum to get the weight up. This is why I like box squats, when you pause on the box that bounce momentum is eliminated and forces you to power your way up.

jimmmer

I've done literally thousands of reps of high box squats with some pretty heavy weights over the years and have no knee issues, so my personal experience is that squatting high doesn't hurt your knees. Nor does it not work your posterior chain as people seem to think (at least, when you use a wide stance like I do). That said, I have also worked thousands of reps of ATG pause squats, parallel depth competition type squats, box squats on below parallel and parallel height boxes, front squats, overhead squats, etc, with various width stances. They are all good for you.

Again, as part of regime that includes all this variety, above parallel squats become a tool, nothing more. If you did ONLY over parallel squats for years, for thousands of reps, are you still positive that it's fine? I'm not talking about doing thousands of above parallel squats in the mix with other squatting, but rather if you think that's what a squat should be and do that movement exclusively, week in, week out for years.

As to the posterior chain thing, I agree that all squatting has some impact on the posterior chain, no matter what the depth. Just that deeper squats seem to have a greater impact on the posterior chain. I mean, the squat hits all kinds of things, it's called the King for a reason! But different variants have different focii and have a greater or lesser impact on various parts than their brethren.

melindasuefritz

your butt doesnt touch the floor

melindasuefritz

i d ont use the weights to do squats and my butt dont touch floor