Squats question!

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2

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  • Otterluv
    Otterluv Posts: 9,083 Member
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    The more I squat the lower I go.

    I try to go lower each time. Doing ATG doesn't just work my legs more, on my opinion, but it has been helping me with my balance and flexibility.

    Me too, I find that it all works together: lower squats = better flexibility = lower squats
  • rick_po
    rick_po Posts: 449 Member
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    Thanks for the responses everyone! I mean specifically when i did Insanity, Shaun T was very strict in consistently saying to make sure your knees dont go over your toes. Maybe that was the difference though? Insanity is more to lose weight and get fit rather than focusing on lifting/squatting heavy.

    The toes/knees thing seems like a weird rule. What if you have little feet? Long thighs? There's a lot of variation in people's anatomy.

    I think it's more important that you concentrate on keeping your knees out over your feet, in the same angle as your feet, throughout the squat movement. I have a tendency to rotate my knees to point straight forward, which twists my knee joint. If I keep my knees out, then I'm using a lot of my inner thigh to help push up, and my knees never ache afterwards.
  • averytds
    averytds Posts: 64 Member
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    My kid's weight class, they go to parallel. Weighted, I go as low as I can before I feel the weight start shifting off my heels, then I come up. I started above parallel, am now at parallel and hope will get ATG eventually. I also do bodyweight squats ATG with balance assistance. At least to me, ATG feels like it does more/works deeper.
  • ShaeLovelyy
    ShaeLovelyy Posts: 55
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    Are you doing weighted squats?

    Yess i do weighted squats. I usually start with 25 pound weights on each side and then add more as i finish more sets.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    Are you doing weighted squats?

    Yess i do weighted squats. I usually start with 25 pound weights on each side and then add more as i finish more sets.

    Barbell? Are you doing low or high bar?
  • ShaeLovelyy
    ShaeLovelyy Posts: 55
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    Are you doing weighted squats?

    Yess i do weighted squats. I usually start with 25 pound weights on each side and then add more as i finish more sets.

    Barbell? Are you doing low or high bar?

    Being semi new at this whole lifitng thanggg im not sure what high or low bar means! haha its basically a thing that holds the bar up for you..then you put the weights on..walk under it..and then lift it off the holders and just squat from there..and yes its a barbell!
  • billsica
    billsica Posts: 4,741 Member
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    598423_278645615567960_397230459_n.jpg
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    Are you doing weighted squats?

    Yess i do weighted squats. I usually start with 25 pound weights on each side and then add more as i finish more sets.

    Barbell? Are you doing low or high bar?

    Being semi new at this whole lifitng thanggg im not sure what high or low bar means! haha its basically a thing that holds the bar up for you..then you put the weights on..walk under it..and then lift it off the holders and just squat from there..and yes its a barbell!

    It is fine to go slightly over your knees as long as your form is good - it depends on your physiology. Make sure your knees align with your feet angle and a wider stance is often 'better' to minimize any overhang.

    See the pic below:

    The more upright you are, the more the knees will tend to go over the toes - which is fine. A2G is normally done with high bar. Low bar is not as easy to do A2G (nor is it necessary).

    35jjrfd.jpg
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    Just adding these for some resources:

    http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Squat_Videos

    http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Lifts
  • HelloDan
    HelloDan Posts: 712 Member
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    The never let the knees go over the toes argument is a massive oversimplification.

    Someone with a shorter femur (upper leg), won't need to move the knees over the toes, but someone with a longer femur will have to to hit the same depth, unless they want to fall on their backside.

    Also, not everyone with the same height and leg proportions has the same shoe size, so does that mean that if I had a clone who only wore size 9 shoes compared my 12s, that we would have to squat differently, despite the rest of our physiology being the same?


    Also the baby argument is a bit of a fallacy, that is unless I'm just weird for not having a massive head relative to the rest of my body, and for having less bones!
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
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    Basically, ATG will put more emphasis on the posterior chain. I find I get more glute and hamstring engagement with this style.

    I would also chime in with those who said it's easier to go ATG with a higher bar placement. The same holds true for front squats and their variants, too.

    As far as knees going over toes, it's a matter of the way nature's dealt your hand. I don't see anything wrong with it. As long as your knees are tracking your toes - this is more important to keep your knees safe.

    Whatever you do, you should aim to break parallel, whether you go down ATG or not. Obviously if you're working on a sticking point and using a variant squat assistance exercise, you can go higher than parallel. Somebody already mentioned this with regards to Westside, where you cycle through variants to overcome sticking points, rather than making an above-parallel squat a regular training habit.
  • Lovestoscrapbook
    Lovestoscrapbook Posts: 295 Member
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    Took healthy back/healthy knees class taught by physical therapist and she also said to not let knees go past toes. I would rather train slow and consistent and not risk a knee replacement. The ones I have now may be knobby but original is best... =)
  • mstjmack26
    mstjmack26 Posts: 121 Member
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    Another vote for below parallel. Stick your *kitten* out far enough and your knees won't go out past your toes
  • phjorg1
    phjorg1 Posts: 642 Member
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    knees over toes is fine. only clueless fools claim otherwise. look at every oly lifter ever squat. notice their knees. this stupid myth only came about because new squatters tend to kneel. so pt's make a catch all saying of keep knees in front of toes to try and prevent kneeling to save knees that way. but if knees past toes was dangerous then humans would be unable to walk up stairs safely...
  • helpfit101
    helpfit101 Posts: 347 Member
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    Coaches at gyms usually don't let you go to parallel or below. They are afraid you'll hurt yourself.

    I got a hurt knee before (doing hardly any weight) myself. My technique was just wrong and I went too fast too quick. So that's why staying above parallel is a good idea for the first 1-2 years of your fitness career.

    After that, well it's all up to you. Below parallel is best range of motion and range of motion is king IF you can do it safely without getting injured. And if you're fairly experienced you probably can. If you have to ask probably stay slightly above parallel.
  • phjorg1
    phjorg1 Posts: 642 Member
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    do not listen to the above. above parallel means your knees will experience more strain than below parallel due to less posterior chain muscle groups firing to brake load. always aim to go low. this is all explained in any lifting guide suggested on these forums like ss, sl or new rules.
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
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    do not listen to the above. above parallel means your knees will experience more strain than below parallel due to less posterior chain muscle groups firing to brake load. always aim to go low. this is all explained in any lifting guide suggested on these forums like ss, sl or new rules.

    I have to agree with this. Repeatedly squatting above parallel is more likely to hurt your knees than breaking parallel. It's okay in special circumstances, but not as your regular squatting movement.

    There's a lot of crappy info out there from people who don't really know better - i.e. people who don't squat regularly and haven't spent a lot of time wrangling with the minutiae of form adjustments on the way to building a nice squat. Forums like this are full of people parroting third hand info they overheard from a second-rate trainer at a gym or got from a friend who's daughter's been through physical therapy. I'll take people like Wendler, Rippetoe, Dan john, etc. any day when it comes to these things. i.e. people who've lived it.....
  • helpfit101
    helpfit101 Posts: 347 Member
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    Hi the previous two posters seem fairly adamant so I will correct my recommendation and just tell you to be careful either way :)
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    Coaches at gyms usually don't let you go to parallel or below. They are afraid you'll hurt yourself.

    I got a hurt knee before (doing hardly any weight) myself. My technique was just wrong and I went too fast too quick. So that's why staying above parallel is a good idea for the first 1-2 years of your fitness career.

    After that, well it's all up to you. Below parallel is best range of motion and range of motion is king IF you can do it safely without getting injured. And if you're fairly experienced you probably can. If you have to ask probably stay slightly above parallel.

    Ignore this. Make sure you can get your form down with light weight, don't avoid it as you will never get the right form.

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