Losing fat vs. losing fat while gaining muscle - pls help.
gottogetinshape
Posts: 124 Member
Hi everyone!
I've been on MFP for a month, first eating at the insane 1200 default goal and then at my TDEE minus 15/20%, when I realised the default setting was crazy. Initially I had thought I should lose the fat and then work on gaining muscle but I have been persuaded that this is crazy as my issue is not that I'm hugely over my goal weight (I'm not) but that I have a very high body fat percentage (I am petite with tiny bones and lots of (disproportionately distributed) fat). I lost 2 kg in the first two weeks on a calorie deficit with a slight increase in low impact exercise (mostly walking) but my weight has stuck where it is for the last two weeks. I'm ok with this, though, as what I want to do is lose fat and build muscle. I don't want to be a bodybuilder or anything close to that, I just want to be toned, a little stronger, and a lot healthier than I am now. According to the Scooby Workshop calorie calculator, to gain muscle and lose fat I need to be eating 2024 calories a day split roughly as 35% protein, 55% carbs, 10% fat. This is 700 calories more than I currently eat. I used to eat way more than that every day but that was with junk food. I have also watched Scooby's 'Gain muscle and lose fat' YouTube video and there he says that a beginner, looking to gain muscle and lose fat, can eat at a slight deficit of, say 5% (this would make my goal 1922) . Obviously alongside this I need to be doing strength training and, Scooby says, I need to do 30 mins of cardio a day. I find it very hard to imagine myself eating 2024 or 1922 a day of healthy calories and working out at least 30 minutes a day, as my energy levels are generally very low (this is at least in part due to depression) and I am very unfit with a high body fat percentage. I realise that if I do 30 mins of cardio a day then my appetite will increase and it will be easy/easier to increase my calorie intake. I just wondered if anyone has any advice for me. 31 days ago I was a sedentary 33 year old female, 5' 3", eating BIG pizzas several times a week, with a very high sugar and fat intake. Since I joined MFP my lifestyle has been far from perfect but I haven't ordered any takeaways, I am logging all my eating and exercise, I walk more, and I am doing 10 minute workout sessions at home, with a dvd and a resistance tube, and my diet is generally better. Although slight, I do feel the benefit of these changes. To jump to 30 minute daily cardio sessions and a 600/700 calorie increase seems very daunting. Is it possible and useful for me to build up to that increase in exercise and calorie intake slowly? Any advice would be gratefully received. Thanks for reading this and all the best with your MFP challenges
I've been on MFP for a month, first eating at the insane 1200 default goal and then at my TDEE minus 15/20%, when I realised the default setting was crazy. Initially I had thought I should lose the fat and then work on gaining muscle but I have been persuaded that this is crazy as my issue is not that I'm hugely over my goal weight (I'm not) but that I have a very high body fat percentage (I am petite with tiny bones and lots of (disproportionately distributed) fat). I lost 2 kg in the first two weeks on a calorie deficit with a slight increase in low impact exercise (mostly walking) but my weight has stuck where it is for the last two weeks. I'm ok with this, though, as what I want to do is lose fat and build muscle. I don't want to be a bodybuilder or anything close to that, I just want to be toned, a little stronger, and a lot healthier than I am now. According to the Scooby Workshop calorie calculator, to gain muscle and lose fat I need to be eating 2024 calories a day split roughly as 35% protein, 55% carbs, 10% fat. This is 700 calories more than I currently eat. I used to eat way more than that every day but that was with junk food. I have also watched Scooby's 'Gain muscle and lose fat' YouTube video and there he says that a beginner, looking to gain muscle and lose fat, can eat at a slight deficit of, say 5% (this would make my goal 1922) . Obviously alongside this I need to be doing strength training and, Scooby says, I need to do 30 mins of cardio a day. I find it very hard to imagine myself eating 2024 or 1922 a day of healthy calories and working out at least 30 minutes a day, as my energy levels are generally very low (this is at least in part due to depression) and I am very unfit with a high body fat percentage. I realise that if I do 30 mins of cardio a day then my appetite will increase and it will be easy/easier to increase my calorie intake. I just wondered if anyone has any advice for me. 31 days ago I was a sedentary 33 year old female, 5' 3", eating BIG pizzas several times a week, with a very high sugar and fat intake. Since I joined MFP my lifestyle has been far from perfect but I haven't ordered any takeaways, I am logging all my eating and exercise, I walk more, and I am doing 10 minute workout sessions at home, with a dvd and a resistance tube, and my diet is generally better. Although slight, I do feel the benefit of these changes. To jump to 30 minute daily cardio sessions and a 600/700 calorie increase seems very daunting. Is it possible and useful for me to build up to that increase in exercise and calorie intake slowly? Any advice would be gratefully received. Thanks for reading this and all the best with your MFP challenges
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Replies
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I hope someone can give me some sensible advice. I'd be so grateful.0
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If I believe the numbers on my BFP scale, I have at least maintain muscle mass while losing fat. The muscle I do have is much stronger than before. A lot more endurance as well.
Lift heavy has helped. Plus I swim a lot, 55+ miles a month. I don't do well on aerobic machines do to various joint problems.
I worked with a trainer to get started with the weights side.0 -
'Obviously alongside this I need to be doing strength training and, Scooby says, I need to do 30 mins of cardio a day. I find it very hard to imagine myself eating 2024 or 1922 a day of healthy calories and working out at least 30 minutes a day, as my energy levels are generally very low (this is at least in part due to depression) and I am very unfit with a high body fat percentage.'
Weight loss ain't easy. It's one of the toughest things you'll ever go through. You'll experience pain, no doubt about that. But as you go along the way, you will find out that every muscle you use, every pain that you go through, will be worth it because YOU will see RESULTS from your hard work. You can't just sit around and eat a lot all day and just wish to be thinner, stronger, or leaner. Don't expect that to happen from you lifestyle because it doesn't work like that.
You have to establish a positive mind first. You said you are depressed. I don't think you can develop the mental attitude to engage in weight loss if you are depressed. And that's what you attribute your weight gain, right? What I want you to do is to break yourself away from that depression. Whatever it is that is putting you down, I want you to get over that and look for things that makes you happy. Be free from depression's grip because that will get you nowhere. Just be positive! Right now you're probably saying, I can't be positive because of this and that! Give those excuses up and find ways to be happy. There are a lot of motivational speakers out there. Les Brown is one powerful man! Check him out.
If you can't imagine yourself doing the necessary things for weight loss, then weight loss won't happen to you. This journey is more of a mental game than a physical one. Think of the contestants on Biggest Loser and you'll know what I mean. Remember, If you think you can't, you're probably right. But if you think you can, you're right.0 -
In order to gain muscle and lose fat, your calorie deficit has to be minimal.....otherwise you'd have an extremely hard time gaining muscle. I'd take your tdee minus 10 percent. In addition, be sure to eat a lot of protein. And the fat you take in should be healthy fat. 10 percent seems a bit low for fat. Are you sure that was the recommendation? I lost almost 30 lbs while maintaining all of my muscle. My macros are currently 40/35/25 carbs/protein/fat. Even if you don't gain any muscle, you can keep what you have while losing fat, and transform your body.0
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Actually, you should be proud of one thing right now. You have decided to get into shape. That's a great job. Not everyone makes that decision. Not everyone thinks of that choice. You have engaged yourself to be a better person. I think you deserve an applause for that. The first, and not to mention one of the hardest parts, is over.
Nutrition is very important. Weight loss is made in the kitchen and maintaining it is in the gym :P Gradually change the quality and quantity of the food you eat. Stay away from fast food from now on. Anything deep-fried, lathered in cheese, or comes in a can that says Coca-Cola or similar to that is a no-no. You'd be doing your body a favor.
Now, to the physical training part. Exercise is a must! There's no other way if your goal is to be leaner, stronger, and sexier. I recommend you to do Jillian Michael's 30 Day Shred. That should make your body adapt to exercise. She used to be 177lbs at 5'2", mind you. Her program is an excellent start for you! It's just for 27mins a day, or if you want, 5x a week. She integrates 3 mins of strength, 2 mins of cardio, and a minute of abs for 3 sets. I know you could do all these. If the mind can decide, the body will follow.
But don't stop after 30 days of shredding. Like I said, weight loss is a journey. Keep at it every day. If you need motivation, check out the forums here. People weighing over 300lbs have lost hundreds of weight. Now don't tell me that that's impossible for you. IF it's possible for others, more so it is for you. This is gonna take time, but it's all gonna be worth every sweat. And once you keep on doing this, your strength will develop and transcend in every facet of your life. Now ain't that a win-win situation? 0 -
Even with perfect nutrition, it's tough to gain muscle while on even a slight calorie deficit. Here's what I've experienced with clients: they lift intense and heavy (relative to them) and stay on a calorie deficit. As they lose fat, the definition comes in. Many who thought that they wanted to add muscle, then just wanted to maintain the current look they had. Try it and see where it goes. Adjustments are made once a goal is reached.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Before Thanksgiving last year, I weighed close to 150 pounds with over 30% body fat. I am currently 136 pounds at 22% body fat with the BF% still falling.
The first thing that I adjusted was my exercise. I was not big/fat at that point, just "skinny fat." I was focusing too much on cardio and not enough on weight training. I lowered my cardio sessions to just 2 per week, and I increased my weight training to 4 sessions per week focusing on heavy compound lifts (squats, deads, bench, and OHP).
The second thing that I adjusted was my calorie intake, because as soon as I got down to 140 pounds and 24% body fat, I was stuck on a plateau and not changing anything anymore. I just wasn't eating nearly enough. I was eating between 1300-1500 calories. I calculated my TDEE and subtracted 15-20% from that. So I have been eating at 1800 calories a day for a couple of months now.
The scale hasn't changed a whole heck of a lot (just 4 pounds since making the calories change) but I am wearing size 4 clothing instead of size 8 and my body fat dropped to 22%. I am still losing, and at times definitely eat even more than just 1800 calories.
It is insanely hard to build muscle and lose fat at the same time. I find it best to focus on one or the other. But if you find your sweet spot for calories while cutting, then you can easily gain strength and endurance on a moderate deficit, get some "newbie" muscle gains if you haven't been focusing on heavy lifting for very long before, and when you lose the fat it will appear as though you gained muscle anyway because your body will be leaner and tighter. A lot of people think that they have gained muscle when all they really did was get rid of the fatty covering and exposed the strong, beautiful muscles that they already had. Weight training is great for doing just that.0 -
Start a lifting program with compound lifts (stronglifts and starting strength are both good programs), and eat at a slight deficit with a lot of protein. What's actually going to happen is that you'll maintain the muscle you have while you lose the fat that's covering it up, but it will look like you're gaining muscle. You may be able to make some "newbie gains" in the beginning, but other than that you can't do a lot of muscle building while eating in a deficit. That's why most people looking to build muscle do multiple bulking and cutting cycles.0
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Cardio isn't necessary, just lift. The macros you listed were crap. Go here to set your macros: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/911011-calculating-calorie-macronutrient-needs?page=1#posts-138213360
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I am pretty content with the numbers on the scale, but want to lose some more bodyfat. I am still eating at a deficit, but 10% instead of 20%- and lifting heavy (for me) To lose bodyfat and maintain muscle.
I have only been doing this 2 months. The numbers on the scale have barely moved a teeny bit (which is FINE) And my body fat % is dropping, plus my clothes fit AWESOMELY now! It's like everything is just moving around to make a better body
I am 5'6" (I have 3 kids, but they are teens, so it's mid-life weight, not baby weight)
Weight fluctuates 133-135#
Body fat went from 27.5% - to 25%. it's slow, I guess, but I am hoping " Slow mean easily to maintain this way of eating/working out.
I eat about 1600 calories, 100-130 grams of protein, 30-45 grams of fat, 120-160 carbs.0 -
Start a lifting program with compound lifts (stronglifts and starting strength are both good programs), and eat at a slight deficit with a lot of protein. What's actually going to happen is that you'll maintain the muscle you have while you lose the fat that's covering it up, but it will look like you're gaining muscle. You may be able to make some "newbie gains" in the beginning, but other than that you can't do a lot of muscle building while eating in a deficit. That's why most people looking to build muscle do multiple bulking and cutting cycles.
YEP, this is what I am doing... And am very pleased!0 -
Lyadeia, Ninerbuff and jimithegreek....have given you the best information...it hasn't taken me a whole year to figure all this out. It's realy hard not to fall into the low calorie intake that is all over MFP...listen to these 3 people and you will see the results you are looking for....good luck
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You can't do 30 minutes of cardio, but what can you do? Can you do 10 minutes this week? If so, do 10 minutes. Next week, push yourself to 12 minutes, then 15 minutes the next week, etc. Trying to do more than you can now will be discouraging. Keep your expectations realistic and build slowly. I started off with walking and built to a 5K run doing the Couch to 5K (C25K) over more than half a year. I've lost over 40 pounds and changed from a total couch potato who got out of breath walking to someone able to complete Jillian Michaels 30 Day Shred and Ripped in 30 and more! Start small to build the strength you need for the longer workouts later.
Cardio helped me initially, but I love the results I've doing JM's workouts better since they incorporate strength and cardio. I know a lot of people here are for lifting heavy but if you're like me, using my own body weight has been lifting heavy for me.0 -
You can't do 30 minutes of cardio, but what can you do? Can you do 10 minutes this week? If so, do 10 minutes. Next week, push yourself to 12 minutes, then 15 minutes the next week, etc. Trying to do more than you can now will be discouraging. Keep your expectations realistic and build slowly. I started off with walking and built to a 5K run doing the Couch to 5K (C25K) over more than half a year. I've lost over 40 pounds and changed from a total couch potato who got out of breath walking to someone able to complete Jillian Michaels 30 Day Shred and Ripped in 30 and more! Start small to build the strength you need for the longer workouts later.
Cardio helped me initially, but I love the results I've doing JM's workouts better since they incorporate strength and cardio. I know a lot of people here are for lifting heavy but if you're like me, using my own body weight has been lifting heavy for me.
Thank you. I am doing a little every day and I will carry on that way and gradually increase. Many thanks! 0 -
In order to gain muscle and lose fat, your calorie deficit has to be minimal.....otherwise you'd have an extremely hard time gaining muscle. I'd take your tdee minus 10 percent. In addition, be sure to eat a lot of protein. And the fat you take in should be healthy fat. 10 percent seems a bit low for fat. Are you sure that was the recommendation? I lost almost 30 lbs while maintaining all of my muscle. My macros are currently 40/35/25 carbs/protein/fat. Even if you don't gain any muscle, you can keep what you have while losing fat, and transform your body.
Thank you so much! 10% fat was the recommendation but I thought it sounded low too. I will increase it. Thanks again! 0 -
Even with perfect nutrition, it's tough to gain muscle while on even a slight calorie deficit. Here's what I've experienced with clients: they lift intense and heavy (relative to them) and stay on a calorie deficit. As they lose fat, the definition comes in. Many who thought that they wanted to add muscle, then just wanted to maintain the current look they had. Try it and see where it goes. Adjustments are made once a goal is reached.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
OK, thank you very much!0 -
Before Thanksgiving last year, I weighed close to 150 pounds with over 30% body fat. I am currently 136 pounds at 22% body fat with the BF% still falling.
The first thing that I adjusted was my exercise. I was not big/fat at that point, just "skinny fat." I was focusing too much on cardio and not enough on weight training. I lowered my cardio sessions to just 2 per week, and I increased my weight training to 4 sessions per week focusing on heavy compound lifts (squats, deads, bench, and OHP).
The second thing that I adjusted was my calorie intake, because as soon as I got down to 140 pounds and 24% body fat, I was stuck on a plateau and not changing anything anymore. I just wasn't eating nearly enough. I was eating between 1300-1500 calories. I calculated my TDEE and subtracted 15-20% from that. So I have been eating at 1800 calories a day for a couple of months now.
The scale hasn't changed a whole heck of a lot (just 4 pounds since making the calories change) but I am wearing size 4 clothing instead of size 8 and my body fat dropped to 22%. I am still losing, and at times definitely eat even more than just 1800 calories.
It is insanely hard to build muscle and lose fat at the same time. I find it best to focus on one or the other. But if you find your sweet spot for calories while cutting, then you can easily gain strength and endurance on a moderate deficit, get some "newbie" muscle gains if you haven't been focusing on heavy lifting for very long before, and when you lose the fat it will appear as though you gained muscle anyway because your body will be leaner and tighter. A lot of people think that they have gained muscle when all they really did was get rid of the fatty covering and exposed the strong, beautiful muscles that they already had. Weight training is great for doing just that.
Thank you so much. This is really helpful! 0 -
i'll join the chorus... i was overdoing cardio and undereating (w/o realizing either) and hit a plateau. Cut some cardio, increased intensity, and thanks to the scooby calcs added 400-500 cals a day to my diet. started losing again.
re: not being able to do it. if you're just starting out, give yourself at least a couple of weeks just to get used to exercising again. walk, don't run - you don't want to put yourself out of commission in the starting gate. after a couple weeks, add intensity and start pushing yourself.0 -
yea.. the TDEE number I get is 2230 whenever I use those calculators.. It calculated my BMR as 1270 (which I personally think is low) I am full well before I hit anywhere near 2000 calories (when I'm not sick!! When I havea cold, like now, I could probably eat 10,000 calories and still be hungry.. grrrr). I've set myself a range of 1408-1643 based on other caluclation i've done. Im hit or miss to eat that much..
It's a battle and it requires baby step.. just pick one thing at a time and work at it until it's easy and you do it without thinking.
I love cardio and do it around 5 times a week.. but I lift heavy 5 times a week too and do strength and balance exercises often Actually right now I am trying to cut back on my gym time.. but I'm finding that difficult cause I really do love how it makes me feel.0 -
bump to read later0
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i'll join the chorus... i was overdoing cardio and undereating (w/o realizing either) and hit a plateau. Cut some cardio, increased intensity, and thanks to the scooby calcs added 400-500 cals a day to my diet. started losing again.
re: not being able to do it. if you're just starting out, give yourself at least a couple of weeks just to get used to exercising again. walk, don't run - you don't want to put yourself out of commission in the starting gate. after a couple weeks, add intensity and start pushing yourself.
Thank you! I really appreciate your advice. I will start slowly. Best wishes!0 -
yea.. the TDEE number I get is 2230 whenever I use those calculators.. It calculated my BMR as 1270 (which I personally think is low) I am full well before I hit anywhere near 2000 calories (when I'm not sick!! When I havea cold, like now, I could probably eat 10,000 calories and still be hungry.. grrrr). I've set myself a range of 1408-1643 based on other caluclation i've done. Im hit or miss to eat that much..
It's a battle and it requires baby step.. just pick one thing at a time and work at it until it's easy and you do it without thinking.
I love cardio and do it around 5 times a week.. but I lift heavy 5 times a week too and do strength and balance exercises often Actually right now I am trying to cut back on my gym time.. but I'm finding that difficult cause I really do love how it makes me feel.
Thanks for replying! I'll take it one step at a time. My ambition is to get to love exercise and being healthy (like you do). I really want that. Best wishes!0 -
I would definitely change the diet of high-sugar foods and processed foods that zap your energy and lead to weight gain. The best diet for losing weight is of primarily raw (uncooked) fruits and vegetables with the remaining part of the diet being healthy meat and dairy. Raw fruits and vegetables will help you lose weight very effectively because they are very hydrating to the body, and in doing so, it flushes out all the toxins (including excess fat) out of the body. The huge load of vitamins and minerals will kick your metabolism into turbo-drive. Obviously to, increase your water intake which will help you to lose weight also.
While cardio can be a great exercise, there are exercises that are much more effective for weight loss. Anerobic exercises such as sprinting has been proven to be more effective for weight loss than traditional cardio. Aerobics take less time, so you can actually get better results and save valuable time! Weight-lifting is also very effective, because it even burns fat for hours after you exercise
I'm not knocking cardio, but if you want to lose weight, I recommend you at least combine some weightlifting or anaerobic exercises with the cardio.
Nate Phillips
http://www.eliminatefatfast.org/0
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