Keep gaining, this is driving me INSANE

bigdgeek

I've posted about this before, but I bought a HRM with a chest strap so I could get a more accurate picture of my daily burn than an internet calculator's estimate.

OK, so people on here have accused me of underestimating my caloric intake. I measure and record everything, so I've been double and triple checking figures for vegetables, fruit, etc. on various websites to verify that MFP is correct. I always verify figures on packaged foods to ensure the MFP DB entry is correct (which it usually is).

On my HRM (a Polar) I entered my weight, height, age, and sex. I wore it continuously for a few days to get a good idea of my daily burn, and also what my 'real' burn is during my workouts. My TDEE ranges between 1850 calories on days I don't exercise to 2100-2300 on days I do. Basically, this is almost exactly what internet calculators have estimated.

I was very surprised to see that it's within about 5% of what the cardio machines at the gym say. I thought those were notoriously inaccurate. In my case, it would appear that they aren't.

I've also had my BMR professionally tested, so I know for sure that it is 1340.

So...I'm consuming about 1300-1400 calories per day. According to my HRM, I am burning far more than that even on days I don't work out.

I've had my thyroid tested. Low-normal.

Blood work for hormones came back normal.

I'm not on medication of any kind.

It's not bloat and it's not muscle.

WHY AM I GAINING WEIGHT?

Pearsquared

Are you consuming 1300-1400 calories a day, or are you netting that amount (calories consumed minus calories burned through exercise)? Just making sure I know for sure what the habit is.

smn76237

Did you ever see a ob/gyn about PCOS?
http://paleohacks.com/questions/169732/pcos-normal-hormone-levels#axzz2TwUdSBUy

bigdgeek

Are you consuming 1300-1400 calories a day, or are you netting that amount (calories consumed minus calories burned through exercise)? Just making sure I know for sure what the habit is.

That's what I'm actually eating. I'm netting less than that because of my TDEE.

bigdgeek

Did you ever see a ob/gyn about PCOS?
http://paleohacks.com/questions/169732/pcos-normal-hormone-levels#axzz2TwUdSBUy

Nope, not yet; haven't been able to find an OB/GYN who can see me before July. Apparently there's a baby explosion in this part of Texas. :-(

jzammetti

I've posted about this before, but I bought a HRM with a chest strap so I could get a more accurate picture of my daily burn than an internet calculator's estimate.

OK, so people on here have accused me of underestimating my caloric intake. I measure and record everything, so I've been double and triple checking figures for vegetables, fruit, etc. on various websites to verify that MFP is correct. I always verify figures on packaged foods to ensure the MFP DB entry is correct (which it usually is).

On my HRM (a Polar) I entered my weight, height, age, and sex. I wore it continuously for a few days to get a good idea of my daily burn, and also what my 'real' burn is during my workouts. My TDEE ranges between 1850 calories on days I don't exercise to 2100-2300 on days I do. Basically, this is almost exactly what internet calculators have estimated.

I was very surprised to see that it's within about 5% of what the cardio machines at the gym say. I thought those were notoriously inaccurate. In my case, it would appear that they aren't.

I've also had my BMR professionally tested, so I know for sure that it is 1340.

So...I'm consuming about 1300-1400 calories per day. According to my HRM, I am burning far more than that even on days I don't work out.

I've had my thyroid tested. Low-normal.

Blood work for hormones came back normal.

I'm not on medication of any kind.

It's not bloat and it's not muscle.

WHY AM I GAINING WEIGHT?

Because under eating (which you are doing) for a prolonged period of time destroys our metabolism. Eat more like 1700-1800 a day.

AmyRhubarb

I've also had my BMR professionally tested, so I know for sure that it is 1340.

So...I'm consuming about 1300-1400 calories per day. According to my HRM, I am burning far more than that even on days I don't work out.

Are you eating back those workout cals? If you could make your diary public, it would be easier to offer advice.

Pearsquared

Are you consuming 1300-1400 calories a day, or are you netting that amount (calories consumed minus calories burned through exercise)? Just making sure I know for sure what the habit is.

That's what I'm actually eating. I'm netting less than that because of my TDEE.

You're netting below your BMR, which is not so good for your body. In layman's terms, your BMR is the amount of calories you would burn if you were in a coma. In other words, it's the amount of calories you need just to LIVE - keep your organs running, your blood flowing, and your lungs breathing. If you exercise at all, you need to eat more.

xstarxdustx

bump.

endoftheside

I would say open up your diary so people can get a better look at what might be potential problem areas.

Were you at maintenance when you started gaining? I am trying to understand why your ticker is showing negative amounts to lose, I thought that was for people who were trying to gain?

How much weight have you gained, over what time period? Did you recently change your calorie level, macro %, exercise, or sodium?

I would be tempted to eat at maintenance for a few weeks to try to straighten out your hormone levels, and then try again with a very small deficit, maybe something like eating 1700 calories per day (this is assuming you are close to maintenance level already).

jwdieter

Input of 300-900 net calories / day is brutal.

cavia

What's low normal? What are the reference ranges used and what were your numbers?

bigdgeek

What's low normal? What are the reference ranges used and what were your numbers?

I found the report and will quote exactly what it says...these were collected in December 2012 and I had had a cold the week before.

T3, Free
2.2 (abn) pg/mL
Range: 2.3/4.2 pg/mL

T4, Free
1.0 ng/dL
Range: 0.8-1.8 ng/dL

TSH
1.72 mIU/L
(no range given)

FSH
4.6 mIU/mL
(no range given)

Prolactin
5.9 ng/mL
(no range given)

Abnormal tests:

Reticulocyte Absolute: 19300 cells/uL
Range: 20000-80000 cells/uL

TIBC w/Iron % Saturation 14%
Range: 15-50%

Abnormal figures from CMP w/gfr:

Globulin 1.9
Range: 2.2-3.9

Albumin/globulin ratio 2.3 (calc)
Range: 1.0-2.1 (calc)

AST 31 U/L
Range: 10-30 U/L

ALT 42 U/L
Range: 6-40 U/L

(I was also tested for the Hepatitis alphabet, all negative)

Abnormal results from CBC w/diff & platelet:

White blood cell count 3.4
Range 3.8-10.8

Red blood cell count 3.65 Million/uL
Range: 3.8-5.1 Million/Ul

Hemoglobin 11.5 g/dL
Range: 11.7-15.5 g/dL

Hematocrit 34.8%
Range: 35-45%

Platelet count: 134
Range: 140-400

Absolute Neutrophils 1350 cells/uL
Range: 1500-7800 cells/uL


Negative for: Hepatitis, Epstein-Barr

JoanB5

1. HR Monitors and gym equipment tend to overestimate the true workout burn by 15%. You need to take that "gross number" and convert it to net before entering it to MFP. Or use an online converter like this one: http://www.shapesense.com/fitness-exercise/calculators/net-versus-gross-calorie-burn-conversion-calculator.aspx

2. HR Monitors like Polar are only accurate for same state exercise like constant state running or same state aerobics. They do not handle other calculations like "start/stop" well with their algorhythms. Problems crops up for weight lifting, High Intensity Interval training, and wearing them all day. I'm not sure what the range of error is.

3. How long have you been "gaining"? I can gain 3 pounds in a day from water retention or sore muscles. It may take me a month to see that go back down to a low. But, over a month, I am generally still where MFP says my weight loss should have averaged. Remember that weight loss is not linear...you may see no progress for a couple weeks, then drop three fast.

4. What are your workout habits?

azpoppy

Did you ever see a ob/gyn about PCOS?
http://paleohacks.com/questions/169732/pcos-normal-hormone-levels#axzz2TwUdSBUy

Nope, not yet; haven't been able to find an OB/GYN who can see me before July. Apparently there's a baby explosion in this part of Texas. :-(

Another option for medical care is an endocrinologist, because it is a metabolic disorder rather than strictly a reproductive disorder. Many gynos will not even treat it unless you are trying to get pregnant. Some internal medicine doctors also specialize in hormone imbalances (I see a NP that specializes in hormone disorders and she is great!).

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Tammy

auddii

1. HR Monitors and gym equipment tend to overestimate the true workout burn by 15%. You need to take that "gross number" and convert it to net before entering it to MFP. Or use an online converter like this one: http://www.shapesense.com/fitness-exercise/calculators/net-versus-gross-calorie-burn-conversion-calculator.aspx

2. HR Monitors like Polar are only accurate for same state exercise like constant state running or same state aerobics. They do not handle other calculations like "start/stop" well with their algorhythms. Problems crops up for weight lifting, High Intensity Interval training, and wearing them all day. I'm not sure what the range of error is.

3. How long have you been "gaining"? I can gain 3 pounds in a day from water retention or sore muscles. It may take me a month to see that go back down to a low. But, over a month, I am generally still where MFP says my weight loss should have averaged. Remember that weight loss is not linear...you may see no progress for a couple weeks, then drop three fast.

4. What are your workout habits?

This.

Afura

TSH - 0.450 - 4.500 at least from my latest bloodwork (as I'm hypothyroid), you noted that you were low-normal with T3, Free
2.2 (abn) pg/mL Range: 2.3/4.2 pg/mL. That's not normal, you're a little (wee bit) below normal. When your Dr saw that result did they not mention possibly having your thyroid checked by an endocrinologist, or at least prescribing a low dose of cytomel?

JoanB5

That does not seem like a low enough range to start messing with hormones which shift from day to day. But, I'm no medical professional. If it needed adjustment, I'm sure they would have suggested it in this case.

Until we know your real eating and workout habits, no one can offer real help. If you want to point to a physical condition, you will probably find one if you look hard enough, but you'll still need to have someone look at diet and exercise to lose weight most likely, so why not start by opening your diary?

morkiemama

1. HR Monitors and gym equipment tend to overestimate the true workout burn by 15%. You need to take that "gross number" and convert it to net before entering it to MFP. Or use an online converter like this one: http://www.shapesense.com/fitness-exercise/calculators/net-versus-gross-calorie-burn-conversion-calculator.aspx

2. HR Monitors like Polar are only accurate for same state exercise like constant state running or same state aerobics. They do not handle other calculations like "start/stop" well with their algorhythms. Problems crops up for weight lifting, High Intensity Interval training, and wearing them all day. I'm not sure what the range of error is.

3. How long have you been "gaining"? I can gain 3 pounds in a day from water retention or sore muscles. It may take me a month to see that go back down to a low. But, over a month, I am generally still where MFP says my weight loss should have averaged. Remember that weight loss is not linear...you may see no progress for a couple weeks, then drop three fast.

4. What are your workout habits?

This.

Yep this.

HRMs are for tracking steady state cardio. It is important to note that HRMs are not accurate for weight lifting and will not give you an accurate burn. They are also not meant for HIIT. Temperature extremes and daily burn tracking (e.g. I wear it all day to find out what I should be taking in) are also inaccurate. HRMs are for steady state aerobic exercise only!

This is a helpful blog post:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Azdak/view/the-real-facts-about-hrms-and-calories-what-you-need-to-know-before-purchasing-an-hrm-or-using-one-21472

triathlete5301

Are you consuming 1300-1400 calories a day, or are you netting that amount (calories consumed minus calories burned through exercise)? Just making sure I know for sure what the habit is.

That's what I'm actually eating. I'm netting less than that because of my TDEE.

You're netting below your BMR, which is not so good for your body. In layman's terms, your BMR is the amount of calories you would burn if you were in a coma. In other words, it's the amount of calories you need just to LIVE - keep your organs running, your blood flowing, and your lungs breathing. If you exercise at all, you need to eat more.

this^^ You need to NET 1300-1400

CarriemotivFIT

Hey bigdgeek,

Props to all your hard work toward reaching your health goal. What you're experiencing is actually a common issue. As a certified personal trainer, nutrition coach, and holistic biblical health coach, I have seen this many times. Based on all the detailed info you posted, I'm thinking that there are several components that could be responsible for your frustration:

1. Not taking in enough calories- Caloric deprivation actually harms the metabolism by causing the body to store what it eats because it is not getting enough. You need to add in the calories you burn during active exercise in addition to your RMR caloric need. Think of it like gas in the gas tank. When you go on a road trip or you drive in traffic, you're going to consume more fuel. The body isn't any different. It needs the fuel to perform the daily activity. It will not release the stored fat if it does not have the nutrients it needs from daily fuel. It sounds counter intuitive but that's how the body works. I'm thinking you should be closer to 1800 calories per day. This is still enough to creat a caloric deficit but will not starve the body of much needed nutrition.

2. The combination of your nutrient ratio is off balance- Quality of your nutrition is just as important as the quantity. There are four main components that make up every meal/snack: lean protein, vegetables, high-fiber complex carbohydrates, and quality fat with every meal every 3-4 hours. Make sure the foods you eat are unprocessed or minimally processed—meaning whole, fresh foods like lean organic meats and fresh veggies while eliminating anything in packages like breads, pastas, crackers, cookies, granola bars, etc. You’ll also need to take in 25-35 grams of fiber each day and drink half your body weight in ounces of water each day. Those two little things alone could be the hiccup in your routine. Finally, eliminate as much alcohol, sweets, and sugar from your diet as possible.

3. Not enough rest- Overtraining is a common pitfall for those looking to lose weight yet, resorting to the “more is better” philosophy can actually hinder your success. It's very important that your body has enough rest and recovery because this is actually when the body is building the lean muscle. The lean muscle is the metabolically active tissue that burns calories even when you’re at rest, boosting your resting metabolism. The workouts tear the muscle down, not build it up (hence soreness) so if you don't allow the body time to rebuild with rest, you will never gain that metabolism boosting lean muscle. Additionally, rest is critical as it also helps to reduce stress hormones in the body that will halt fat loss efforts.


Again, I'm not totally familiar with your entire daily routine, but those are just a few things I could see off the top without seeing your food journal or knowing your exact exercise protocol. You well on your way to figuring things out. You're doing what you need to do so now it's just a matter of making small tweeks in things here and there until your body starts releasing the weight. I hope this helps.

Yours in health,

Carrie Morgan
Certified Personal Trainer
Certified Fitness Nutrition Coach
Certified Biblical Health Coach
.

I've posted about this before, but I bought a HRM with a chest strap so I could get a more accurate picture of my daily burn than an internet calculator's estimate.

OK, so people on here have accused me of underestimating my caloric intake. I measure and record everything, so I've been double and triple checking figures for vegetables, fruit, etc. on various websites to verify that MFP is correct. I always verify figures on packaged foods to ensure the MFP DB entry is correct (which it usually is).

On my HRM (a Polar) I entered my weight, height, age, and sex. I wore it continuously for a few days to get a good idea of my daily burn, and also what my 'real' burn is during my workouts. My TDEE ranges between 1850 calories on days I don't exercise to 2100-2300 on days I do. Basically, this is almost exactly what internet calculators have estimated.

I was very surprised to see that it's within about 5% of what the cardio machines at the gym say. I thought those were notoriously inaccurate. In my case, it would appear that they aren't.

I've also had my BMR professionally tested, so I know for sure that it is 1340.

So...I'm consuming about 1300-1400 calories per day. According to my HRM, I am burning far more than that even on days I don't work out.

I've had my thyroid tested. Low-normal.

Blood work for hormones came back normal.

I'm not on medication of any kind.

It's not bloat and it's not muscle.

WHY AM I GAINING WEIGHT?

bigdgeek

3. How long have you been "gaining"? I can gain 3 pounds in a day from water retention or sore muscles. It may take me a month to see that go back down to a low. But, over a month, I am generally still where MFP says my weight loss should have averaged. Remember that weight loss is not linear...you may see no progress for a couple weeks, then drop three fast.

4. What are your workout habits?

The gain has been steady for a year and a half. Tiny increments, but a steady upward trend.

I work out 5 days a week for about 60 mins, some days 70-80.

bigdgeek

TSH - 0.450 - 4.500 at least from my latest bloodwork (as I'm hypothyroid), you noted that you were low-normal with T3, Free
2.2 (abn) pg/mL Range: 2.3/4.2 pg/mL. That's not normal, you're a little (wee bit) below normal. When your Dr saw that result did they not mention possibly having your thyroid checked by an endocrinologist, or at least prescribing a low dose of cytomel?

Nope. Doc said I was normal and I should eat less.

bigdgeek

Hey bigdgeek,

Props to all your hard work toward reaching your health goal. What you're experiencing is actually a common issue. As a certified personal trainer, nutrition coach, and holistic biblical health coach, I have seen this many times. Based on all the detailed info you posted, I'm thinking that there are several components that could be responsible for your frustration:

1. Not taking in enough calories- Caloric deprivation actually harms the metabolism by causing the body to store what it eats because it is not getting enough. You need to add in the calories you burn during active exercise in addition to your RMR caloric need. Think of it like gas in the gas tank. When you go on a road trip or you drive in traffic, you're going to consume more fuel. The body isn't any different. It needs the fuel to perform the daily activity. It will not release the stored fat if it does not have the nutrients it needs from daily fuel. It sounds counter intuitive but that's how the body works. I'm thinking you should be closer to 1800 calories per day. This is still enough to creat a caloric deficit but will not starve the body of much needed nutrition.

2. The combination of your nutrient ratio is off balance- Quality of your nutrition is just as important as the quantity. There are four main components that make up every meal/snack: lean protein, vegetables, high-fiber complex carbohydrates, and quality fat with every meal every 3-4 hours. Make sure the foods you eat are unprocessed or minimally processed—meaning whole, fresh foods like lean organic meats and fresh veggies while eliminating anything in packages like breads, pastas, crackers, cookies, granola bars, etc. You’ll also need to take in 25-35 grams of fiber each day and drink half your body weight in ounces of water each day. Those two little things alone could be the hiccup in your routine. Finally, eliminate as much alcohol, sweets, and sugar from your diet as possible.

3. Not enough rest- Overtraining is a common pitfall for those looking to lose weight yet, resorting to the “more is better” philosophy can actually hinder your success. It's very important that your body has enough rest and recovery because this is actually when the body is building the lean muscle. The lean muscle is the metabolically active tissue that burns calories even when you’re at rest, boosting your resting metabolism. The workouts tear the muscle down, not build it up (hence soreness) so if you don't allow the body time to rebuild with rest, you will never gain that metabolism boosting lean muscle. Additionally, rest is critical as it also helps to reduce stress hormones in the body that will halt fat loss efforts.


Again, I'm not totally familiar with your entire daily routine, but those are just a few things I could see off the top without seeing your food journal or knowing your exact exercise protocol. You well on your way to figuring things out. You're doing what you need to do so now it's just a matter of making small tweeks in things here and there until your body starts releasing the weight. I hope this helps.

Yours in health,

Carrie Morgan
Certified Personal Trainer
Certified Fitness Nutrition Coach
Certified Biblical Health Coach

Thank you for your detailed response Carrie! I don't eat a lot of junk food, and never any white bread, pasta, rice, etc. I don't eat candy either, or protein bars...which are essentially candy anyway!

I work out 5x a week and try to sleep a decent amout but I usually never get more than 5.5-6 hrs a night. That's better than I used to get; I used to get maybe 3-4 hours a night but I have been working hard at going to bed earlier and trying to relax once I'm in bed. It's not easy; insomnia is a family curse.

Akimajuktuq

TSH - 0.450 - 4.500 at least from my latest bloodwork (as I'm hypothyroid), you noted that you were low-normal with T3, Free
2.2 (abn) pg/mL Range: 2.3/4.2 pg/mL. That's not normal, you're a little (wee bit) below normal. When your Dr saw that result did they not mention possibly having your thyroid checked by an endocrinologist, or at least prescribing a low dose of cytomel?

Nope. Doc said I was normal and I should eat less.

If you went to a doctor that specializes in metabolism they would say something very different. Physical processes are highly complex and this notion that metabolism is affected only by "calories in, calories out" is an over-simplification. A regular GP doesn't have any business giving dietary advice because they know next to nothing about nutrition, except the same bs we all hear on tv that all the big name brand foods that come in a box are "healthy" while natural, nutrient dense foods are not.

I don't know how you eat now, but WHAT I eat is crucial to weight loss. I have metabolic issues and stopped losing weight while eating 25-40 grams of carbohydrates per day. I tried lowering my calories and that made it worse. Now I eat 10-15 grams per day, raised my calories and I'm doing well once again. I expect that it will take years to repair my metabolism; not surprising since I was eating inappropriately for almost 40 years.

Coyla

The gain has been steady for a year and a half. Tiny increments, but a steady upward trend.

I work out 5 days a week for about 60 mins, some days 70-80.

I understand this all too well. I've spent the last four years counting calories, doggedly keeping track (on notebooks before MFP). I exercise 6 days a week, 60 to 90 minutes a day. I do strength, cardio, interval training, jogging, bike riding, walks, weight-lifting. I've adjusted my calories up, then down. I've watched sugar intake. I've gone gluten free. I've done low carb dieting (gained 5lbs).

I've gained 30 lbs in the last four years.

Like you, my thyroid is normal, and I don't have PCOS. My doctor helpfully (<--sarcasm) tells me I should exercise and diet to lose weight. I've finally given up. Now I'm not counting calories but trying to eat reasonably. My only hope is to maintain.

HiKaren

Did you ever see a ob/gyn about PCOS?
http://paleohacks.com/questions/169732/pcos-normal-hormone-levels#axzz2TwUdSBUy

Makes good sense to do this.

bigdgeek

The gain has been steady for a year and a half. Tiny increments, but a steady upward trend.

I work out 5 days a week for about 60 mins, some days 70-80.

I understand this all too well. I've spent the last four years counting calories, doggedly keeping track (on notebooks before MFP). I exercise 6 days a week, 60 to 90 minutes a day. I do strength, cardio, interval training, jogging, bike riding, walks, weight-lifting. I've adjusted my calories up, then down. I've watched sugar intake. I've gone gluten free. I've done low carb dieting (gained 5lbs).

I've gained 30 lbs in the last four years.

Like you, my thyroid is normal, and I don't have PCOS. My doctor helpfully (<--sarcasm) tells me I should exercise and diet to lose weight. I've finally given up. Now I'm not counting calories but trying to eat reasonably. My only hope is to maintain.

Glad to know I'm not the only one though I am sorry this is happening to you too! If you ever find a fix, let me know...I will do the same!

albayin

I can relate but I am not sure if we are the same case. For me it's about the fight between my “ideal weight" and my body's "ideal weight". I manged to drop 10+ pounds because I thought that was my goal. After that no matter what did my body didn't seem liking it and keeps fighting back until...my weight was back up to the starting point. I still run, weights, barre, yoga, and eating 1200-1500 but my weight stops going up but refuses to down too. I am stuck and clueless what I should do. It's kinda a stable state that my body thinks good for me to keep...

For now I try to forget about whose "ideal weight" it is but rather just enjoy my runs, barre workout and other stuff.

I know I don't have any science or data to back this up but this has happened to me. I am sure it happens to others too.

ninerbuff

I've posted about this before, but I bought a HRM with a chest strap so I could get a more accurate picture of my daily burn than an internet calculator's estimate.

OK, so people on here have accused me of underestimating my caloric intake. I measure and record everything, so I've been double and triple checking figures for vegetables, fruit, etc. on various websites to verify that MFP is correct. I always verify figures on packaged foods to ensure the MFP DB entry is correct (which it usually is).

On my HRM (a Polar) I entered my weight, height, age, and sex. I wore it continuously for a few days to get a good idea of my daily burn, and also what my 'real' burn is during my workouts. My TDEE ranges between 1850 calories on days I don't exercise to 2100-2300 on days I do. Basically, this is almost exactly what internet calculators have estimated.

I was very surprised to see that it's within about 5% of what the cardio machines at the gym say. I thought those were notoriously inaccurate. In my case, it would appear that they aren't.

I've also had my BMR professionally tested, so I know for sure that it is 1340.

So...I'm consuming about 1300-1400 calories per day. According to my HRM, I am burning far more than that even on days I don't work out.

I've had my thyroid tested. Low-normal.

Blood work for hormones came back normal.

I'm not on medication of any kind.

It's not bloat and it's not muscle.

WHY AM I GAINING WEIGHT?

Sodium and carbs if that's what you ingest a lot of even if you're within calorie range. Both "uptake" water for storage in cells. Also depending on how hard your intensity is, water retention could be higher.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

bigdgeek

Sodium and carbs if that's what you ingest a lot of even if you're within calorie range. Both "uptake" water for storage in cells. Also depending on how hard your intensity is, water retention could be higher.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

How could it possibly be due to water retention?