Whole Body workout vs Separate days?

holly273

Hey so I'm fairly new to lifting, and am currently trying to figure out what would be the best approach.
At the moment, I'm going every second day (so alternating between 3 and 4 days a week) and doing a full body workout with

15 min cardio warmup (elliptical)
benchpress
lat pulldowns
bicep curls and tricep dips
squats
hip abductor and adductor
ab work
sometimes more cardio (basically just if i want a bigger burn - party or going out for dinner)
stretching

this only happens every second day, but takes about an hour and a half each time.

would it be more beneficial to do separate days for different body areas? Like, a leg day, an arms/shoulder day, etc. so that I don't have to have a rest day every second day? or is this method just as effective?

If you recommend splitting it up, what would you suggest as a new weekly workout routine?

Thanks so much!

MrsBioChem

Do you really want to build up one group? Or do you just want to tone up? The research I found says this:

"Body part splits work well for those who are near or at maximum growth and need to bring up lacking parts - like higher caliper bodybuilders." - Bret Contreras M.S, CSCS

_lyndseybrooke_

The trainer at my gym suggested tht I do full-body workouts as opposed to splitting it up. He said to hit each muscle group with 3-4 exercises each. What I do is almost exactly what you do.

holly273

Yeah, I pretty much just want to tone up overall. I don't think there's a specific area that needs more work than others...of course if spot-reduction were possible there are specific areas I'd target, but in terms of muscle growth, I pretty much just want it everywhere.

mich1902

I asked the same question to my personal trainer when I was moaning that people were saying "oh today is leg day" and I felt left our because I don;t have a 'leg' day lol. He said he prefers doing full body as you are working the muscles of that group more than once a week but he did say if I wanted to split it up he could do me a plan but I actually prefer a full body workout.

jimmmer

If you're new to lifting, then full-body is the way to go.

Split body stuff works better when you've got a bit of mileage under your belt.

holly273

Ok, and then I should definitely have a rest day between each lifting day? Or am I allowed to lift 2 days in a row if I am so inclined? For instance, if one week I work out on Monday, and know that I won't have time on Wednesday, would it be ok for me to lift again on Tuesday, or would I have to wait until Thursday?

jimmmer

Ok, and then I should definitely have a rest day between each lifting day? Or am I allowed to lift 2 days in a row if I am so inclined? For instance, if one week I work out on Monday, and know that I won't have time on Wednesday, would it be ok for me to lift again on Tuesday, or would I have to wait until Thursday?

If you're doing full-body, then you should take a day between sessions, because everything's got to recover.

If you're doing body-part splits, then you can train back-to-back because, for example, your legs are recovering today whilst you hit you back.

katy_trail

you need to do a real program. yes full body works better in this situation.
this is the one i like. it is similar to what you're doing. You'll need a barbell.


http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=147447933

Lupercalia

If you're new to lifting, then full-body is the way to go.

Split body stuff works better when you've got a bit of mileage under your belt.

This.

Use one of the solid beginner's programs based around the compound lifts. Stronglifts 5 x 5, Starting Strength, New Rules of Lifting for Women (NROLFW)....

haroon_awan

Doing full body workouts are much more optimal than doing individual body part splits. Note the key word was OPTIMAL. I am not saying that separate days are bad, but in terms of getting the best results in the shortest period of time (which is what we all want) then doing a full body workout 3 times a week is the most effective way to do this. There are lots of people, especially guys, who look good and they do splits, but when you ask them how long they've been training they'll say 1 year or 2 years. These guys would have gotten the same results in a shorter amount of time doing full body workouts. The simple answer is because muscle protein synthesis is elevated for up to 48 hours, do doing different body parts every single day is not optimal. If you are a beginner, 3x full body workouts a week, if you are an intermediate, a 4x upper/lower OR push/pull/leg routine would be optimal. Since you said you are fairly new, I would recommend 3x full body workouts.

Who wrote your current program? There are clear issues with it that show inexperience (whether it is yours or a trainer wrote it for you). The large coumpound movements, your squats, your deadlift, your bench press, etc you want these at the beginning of your workout, period. Regardless of whether you want to improve your legs or not, on a full body workout a squat should be completed first.

A routine like StrongLifts 5x5 would be very good. But if you want the bigger burn then add extra work for your arms at the end, specifically a routine such as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feY6vi6ORXo would be good. But my primary concern is that it may be a lot of volume for you if you are inexperienced in the lifting environment, but it seems you are quite eager so I will say have a look at it, as there are plenty of women who are on this routine, one such is http://www.youtube.com/user/missyweldon and I would advise asking her any questions you have about the routine to get a woman's perspective. Otherwise, you can send a message to the writer and he might respond. I am also running the routine, so feel free to message me, although I am not an expert.

If you decide to stick with SL 5x5, then there is a group for women who do StrongLifts 5x5 here http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/560459-stronglifts-5x5-summary

JAT74

I have a related question as I started doing full body workouts a couple of months ago or so but felt that 3 days lifting wasn't enough as I had limited time each of the 3 days and therefore couldn't do more than 2-3 exercises on each body part.

Is it therefore better to increase to 6 days of splits ie. Day 1 - Chest/Triceps/Abs, Day 2 - Back/Biceps/Cardio, Day 3 - Legs/Shoulders/Abs, Day 4 - Cardio/Abs then repeat days 1-3 with more exercises per body part and more sets in some cases?

I've started doing this from this week and I can fit in more exercises per body part and therefore longer workouts but not sure if I will see any difference in strength, fat loss this way. The workout I'm doing currently I found on a body building forum and it had many recommendations.

jimmmer

I have a related question as I started doing full body workouts a couple of months ago or so but felt that 3 days lifting wasn't enough as I had limited time each of the 3 days and therefore couldn't do more than 2-3 exercises on each body part.

Is it therefore better to increase to 6 days of splits ie. Day 1 - Chest/Triceps/Abs, Day 2 - Back/Biceps/Cardio, Day 3 - Legs/Shoulders/Abs, Day 4 - Cardio/Abs then repeat days 1-3 with more exercises per body part and more sets in some cases?

I've started doing this from this week and I can fit in more exercises per body part and therefore longer workouts but not sure if I will see any difference in strength, fat loss this way. The workout I'm doing currently I found on a body building forum and it had many recommendations.

What do you call limited time? I fit a full-body workout into 45 mins if I'm really cracking on.

If you are doing compound moves like back squats and OHP and getting the right amount of weight on the bar as a percentage of your RM, then you should get enough work in doing a full body routine in a relatively short space of time.

JAT74

It was taking me 60-75 mins to do full body as sometimes I train with my boyfriend or sometimes just because I'm trying to fit in more. This way I have enough time to fit in my training each day as I normally only have 40-50 mins max.

holly273

Doing full body workouts are much more optimal than doing individual body part splits. Note the key word was OPTIMAL. I am not saying that separate days are bad, but in terms of getting the best results in the shortest period of time (which is what we all want) then doing a full body workout 3 times a week is the most effective way to do this. There are lots of people, especially guys, who look good and they do splits, but when you ask them how long they've been training they'll say 1 year or 2 years. These guys would have gotten the same results in a shorter amount of time doing full body workouts. The simple answer is because muscle protein synthesis is elevated for up to 48 hours, do doing different body parts every single day is not optimal. If you are a beginner, 3x full body workouts a week, if you are an intermediate, a 4x upper/lower OR push/pull/leg routine would be optimal. Since you said you are fairly new, I would recommend 3x full body workouts.

By fairly new I mean...I've done body pump (yesyes I know, not "lifting" as such but it's some of the right movements and all that) for about a year and a half, and been doing straightforward free weight work for about 6-8 months. Would that put me at close to intermediate? As in, I could start splitting? Or just stick with separate?

Who wrote your current program? There are clear issues with it that show inexperience (whether it is yours or a trainer wrote it for you). The large coumpound movements, your squats, your deadlift, your bench press, etc you want these at the beginning of your workout, period. Regardless of whether you want to improve your legs or not, on a full body workout a squat should be completed first.

A routine like StrongLifts 5x5 would be very good. But if you want the bigger burn then add extra work for your arms at the end, specifically a routine such as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feY6vi6ORXo would be good. But my primary concern is that it may be a lot of volume for you if you are inexperienced in the lifting environment, but it seems you are quite eager so I will say have a look at it, as there are plenty of women who are on this routine, one such is http://www.youtube.com/user/missyweldon and I would advise asking her any questions you have about the routine to get a woman's perspective.

The above isn't *exactly* what I do every time I go to the gym, I basically just try to cover all of that, but the order changes every time based on which machines/weights are free when (it gets pretty busy in there and I don't always have time to wait for what I need in a specific order). Should I switch it up to do squats first though? The reason why I generally wait until a little later for them is that during my warmup, the resistance on the elliptical is fairly high, so I like to rest my legs for a good 10+ mins before squats, as I can generally lift more if I wait a while...is this a bad idea though? The "program" isn't exactly something that was written for me by anyone - I am the type of person who, when told to do something EXACT, I just get bored and won't do it. I know that consistency would be better, but I also know I just wouldn't do it. I work better when given a set of exercises that will make me stronger, and then I can mix it up and do slightly different things each time, so I don't feel like I'm being given orders that MUST be followed (I explained this to a trainer and he showed me proper form for all of those lifts and pretty much just told me as long as I was doing them and having adequate rest, I would see results). It's a psychological thing for me. Am I hindering my progress a lot by doing it this way? I understand that results might be a little better if I follow an exact program, but for me the problem would be actually following it (I wouldn't).

rick_po

If you're hoping to shave a few minutes off your routine, I'd change it a little. Replace all the isolation exercises with compound exercises. There's no reason for a beginner to do a lift that only exercises 1 muscle if they can spend the same time exercising 5 muscles.

Drop isolation exercises:

Bicep curls
Tricep dips
Hip abductors
Hip adductors
Abs

Add compound exercises:

Deadlift
Overhead press
Bent-over row

If you love those isolation exercises, do them at the end, but don't feel bad if you're too tired to do them. I think this saves you maybe 15-20 minutes every day you lift.

katy_trail

If your legs are tired from the elliptical, spend less time on it, or use less resistance or do a different warm up.

katy_trail

when they say intermediate, they are likely referring to this:
http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/StrengthStandards.html

jimmmer

when they say intermediate, they are likely referring to this:
http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/StrengthStandards.html

Yes, this lists the international weight-lifting standards for each lift. Basically, click the lift, scan down through the table until you find your body weight and scan across to find what you would need to lift to for one rep to make you an intermediate.

But, if you are turning up and doing that routine, how are you progressing on the weights? I mean, if you don't like to have something you do exactly and therefore just do what you feel/what equipment is free, how are you managing the weight progression? Because if you are not managing the weight progression in some manner, then your RM will not be going up and you will not be progressing towards intermediate anyway.

The reason a more advanced lifter can split out lifts is that he/she can handle more volume, but require more recovery (because they are working nearer to their neuromuscular limit - the maximum their central nervous system(CNS) can handle). Thus, they may have a day devoted to the squat and require a week to recover. A beginner can not hammer themselves this close to the verge of CNS exhaustion because their muscles are not strong enough to get them close to this limit and can therefore be ready to hit the squat a couple of days later. Note that all of this is predicated on people lifting a significant proportion of their RM (be it their 1RM, 3RM, 5RM, 8RM, whatever).

Now, the reason most people say that a beginner should use a proscribed routine is that all of these variables (including adequate recovery) have been taken into account for you. All you need to do is get adequate nutrition and rest and show up and do the routine and you'll get the results. Beginners almost always never understand any of this stuff, see a dude doing a body-part split who is in great shape and think - if it's working for them, it must work for me. Well, it might, eventually, but it will be way sub-optimal as a beginner and this is assuming you have some sort of progression system built into the routine.

jimmmer

It's a psychological thing for me. Am I hindering my progress a lot by doing it this way? I understand that results might be a little better if I follow an exact program, but for me the problem would be actually following it (I wouldn't).

Well, see my reply above (should have quoted you, but wanted to emphasise the exrx link, because it's worth bookmarking if you are working towards intermediate).

Just wanted to add that you will need to say how you are managing the weight progression with your routine. For instance, if you are upping the weights on your squat (which are by far the most taxing lift you are doing) you should be wiped out after them. That's why they go first, 'cause they take a lot out of you.

If you can do a bunch of other work first and then do your squats and you're still alive, then it says to me that you're most likely not managing your weight progression properly. This is all normally done by lifting at a percentage of your RM and then increasing by a certain percentage as you adapt and create a new RM. Rinse and repeat and progress. If you do not disrupt homeostasis and then recover you will not adapt properly and get stronger. You will be spinning your wheels............

Hexahedra

I'm relatively new, but I prefer body part split because I often push myself hard enough (by increasing the weight) to feel a little sore for a couple of days. If I do full body I would need those couple of days to rest, not to mention being totally wiped out the day after the workout. I'm also training for 5K three days a week, so I avoid leg workouts for the time. I did try putting some leg exercise in, but I stopped it because It interferes with my run.

katy_trail

I'm relatively new, but I prefer body part split because I often push myself hard enough (by increasing the weight) to feel a little sore for a couple of days. If I do full body I would need those couple of days to rest, not to mention being totally wiped out the day after the workout. I'm also training for 5K three days a week, so I avoid leg workouts for the time. I did try putting some leg exercise in, but I stopped it because It interferes with my run.

being sore doesn't mean you had a great workout, or you didn't. it means your muscles weren't used to doing that exercise, or it was a lot of volume. often heavy lifting routines don't even result in DOMS,but if you are doing a progressive program as described above, then there will be progress.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/bodypart-frequency-and-soreness-qa.html

BonaFideUK

If you're new to lifting then its a good idea to do full body days for 2 or 3 months before thinking about doing splits.

katy_trail

It's a psychological thing for me. Am I hindering my progress a lot by doing it this way? I understand that results might be a little better if I follow an exact program, but for me the problem would be actually following it (I wouldn't).

Well, see my reply above (should have quoted you, but wanted to emphasise the exrx link, because it's worth bookmarking if you are working towards intermediate).

Just wanted to add that you will need to say how you are managing the weight progression with your routine. For instance, if you are upping the weights on your squat (which are by far the most taxing lift you are doing) you should be wiped out after them. That's why they go first, 'cause they take a lot out of you.

If you can do a bunch of other work first and then do your squats and you're still alive, then it says to me that you're most likely not managing your weight progression properly. This is all normally done by lifting at a percentage of your RM and then increasing by a certain percentage as you adapt and create a new RM. Rinse and repeat and progress. If you do not disrupt homeostasis and then recover you will not adapt properly and get stronger. You will be spinning your wheels............

on that note...
http://weighttrainingexercises4you.com/rep-ranges-to-develop-muscle.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/reps-per-set-for-optimal-growth.html

ilovedeadlifts

full body 2-3x per week would probably be the best route

contingencyplan

Full body training is better for fat loss and functional strength gains. The only people who would benefit from workout programs that have you working in splits (different muscles on different days) are people working out for physical rehab purposes and bodybuilders or professional fitness competitors looking to add size to specific key areas to appease the judges at their competitions.

contingencyplan

It was taking me 60-75 mins to do full body as sometimes I train with my boyfriend or sometimes just because I'm trying to fit in more. This way I have enough time to fit in my training each day as I normally only have 40-50 mins max.

A good full body workout should only take like 30-45 minutes or so.

jdad1

bump

katy_trail

If you're new to lifting then its a good idea to do full body days for 2 or 3 months before thinking about doing splits.

I disagree. When you're doing an established program, you should stick with that program until your progress has stalled.
This is at least a 6 month long process Doing the routine needs to be a long term decision. Do your research before starting the routine. Make sure you have all the equipment, weights, know what the schedule will be months in advance and plan for it. When you're doing a heavy lifting program you can't just skip a workout, or move the days around, without messing up your recovery.

jdavis193

I think I might do this full body one

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/dumbbell-only-home-or-gym-fullbody-workout.html

pcastagner

Full body training is better for fat loss and functional strength gains. The only people who would benefit from workout programs that have you working in splits (different muscles on different days) are people working out for physical rehab purposes and bodybuilders or professional fitness competitors looking to add size to specific key areas to appease the judges at their competitions.

I wound up back on full body workouts after this thread got me thinking, but part of that is the start of mushroom season. A split kept me busy and happy for a while there.

When I start bulking I think I will go back to an upper/lower split. I'm also doing a bit of rebalancing, so trying to do more "unfolding my body" moves than "folding my body" moves.