Calorie vs Calorie
Replies
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Congrats! but i'm good. I never had 85lbs to lose, so I think that speaks volumes about my relationship with food.Donuts, candy, sodas, fried food does not equal lean and fit.
You should have a look at my diary. I'm under 12% body fat, by the way.
And your relationship with food says absolutely nothing whatsoever about sugar's effects on the body.
You're making claims that have absolutely no basis in reality of any kind.0 -
Donuts, candy, sodas, fried food does not equal lean and fit.
You should have a look at my diary. I'm under 12% body fat, by the way.
I looked at your diary. High protein, high fiber, high exercise, with occasional crap food. You do not eat "donuts, candy, sodas, fried food" as a significant portion of your diet. What you're doing is dramatically different than a standard American diet.
Depends on how you define crap. Most people would define a day like yesterday, where I ate four fast food meals (plus one meal consisting mostly of ice cream) as crap. I obviously don't.
61 grams of sugar yesterday.
94 grams of sugar the day before that.
I seem to average somewhere in the neighborhood of 55-60 grams of sugar a day. I eat fast food 1-3 times a day. And somehow I don't have a big fat belly.0 -
There is nothing mysterious in eating crap and getting fat. Donuts, candy, sodas, fried food does not equal lean and fit. And myself like many people gain the majority of their excess weight in their midsection. So obviously if i eat junk, its going to be reflected in my midsection.
You can disagree all you want, but I believe the results I've accomplished speak for themselves. I'm happy with my body and while I do enjoy junk food every so often, I don't trick myself into believing that it is good for me..
No food is inherently bad for you, period. You can be lean and fit regardless of what you eat. I eat ice cream every single day. Not a spoon full, a pint. I'm easily able to hit my fitness and weight goals as well as my health goals (which can be mutually exclusive issues). I contend that ice cream is good for you, both physically and mentally.0 -
Please don't let people tell you that calories are different and that your body "knows" what to do with certain calories and not with others. That simply is *not* true.
A calorie is a calorie is a calorie. It's a unit of energy. 3500 calories represents a lb of weight. There is a concept of "good" calories and "bad" or "empty" calories. It's a bit misleading, because the good, bad and empty don't really refer to the calories themselves, but to whatever else is in the item of food you eat.
Take your chocolate or milk example. If you eat a chocolate frosted doughnut, you get about 270 calories, and not much else except for about 1g of fiber. If you have 270 calories of low fat milk, however, you get about 1 g of potassium, 24 g of protein, and some vitamin A and calcium. See the difference? So, while all calories are created equal, what they come with is not.
Please pay attention to this. It's 100% spot on.0 -
Depends on how you define crap. Most people would define a day like yesterday, where I ate four fast food meals (plus one meal consisting mostly of ice cream) as crap. I obviously don't.
61 grams of sugar yesterday.
94 grams of sugar the day before that.
I seem to average somewhere in the neighborhood of 55-60 grams of sugar a day. I eat fast food 1-3 times a day. And somehow I don't have a big fat belly.
I think you're intentionally misrepresenting your approach through some sort of pride motivation. You're obviously paying very close attention to what you're eating, and nearly always picking healthier options when you pick fast food. You're supplementing with protein powders, protein bars, exercise gels, etc. You're always below target intake, because you're picking up a lot of exercise freeboard.
Basically, unless you're looking at fitness modeling, at a high exercise point you can eat whatever you want. I used to eat 10 hamburger lunches, entire pizzas, etc. And I also had ripped abs. But I was also doing 20+ hours/week of high intensity athletics, burning 5,000+ calories per day. What relevance does that have to a normal person on this website who wants to lose weight? These are generally people who have 2000 or or (much) fewer calories to work with, who don't work out a whole lot. Implying you eat a poor diet and you're losing weight / in great shape is misleading.0 -
Pretty sure he didn't say he is eating a poor diet. That is kind of the point.
(And he is far from the only one here following the same way of eating. In fact, those that enjoy "bad food" semi regularly to regularly, while working out and monitoring calories and macros seem to be the most successful people here.)0 -
Depends on how you define crap. Most people would define a day like yesterday, where I ate four fast food meals (plus one meal consisting mostly of ice cream) as crap. I obviously don't.
61 grams of sugar yesterday.
94 grams of sugar the day before that.
I seem to average somewhere in the neighborhood of 55-60 grams of sugar a day. I eat fast food 1-3 times a day. And somehow I don't have a big fat belly.
I think you're intentionally misrepresenting your approach through some sort of pride motivation. You're obviously paying very close attention to what you're eating, and nearly always picking healthier options when you pick fast food. You're supplementing with protein powders, protein bars, exercise gels, etc. You're always below target intake, because you're picking up a lot of exercise freeboard.
Basically, unless you're looking at fitness modeling, at a high exercise point you can eat whatever you want. I used to eat 10 hamburger lunches, entire pizzas, etc. And I also had ripped abs. But I was also doing 20+ hours/week of high intensity athletics, burning 5,000+ calories per day. What relevance does that have to a normal person on this website who wants to lose weight? These are generally people who have 2000 or or (much) fewer calories to work with, who don't work out a whole lot. Implying you eat a poor diet and you're losing weight / in great shape is misleading.
I'm not misrepresenting anything. I used to be over 200 lbs at a similar activity level. Now I'm 150. The difference is controlling my calorie intake.
The entire point is that it doesn't matter where your macros come from, just hit your macros. Fast food isn't automatically bad. Ice cream isn't automatically bad. Sugar makes no difference at all.
I'm not eating a poor diet. That's what I'm trying to say. If you judged my diet on sugar intake, it would be a poor diet because I regularly get 60-100+ grams of sugar in a day. If you judged my diet on how often I ate fast food, it would be a poor diet because I eat fast food like 10+ times a week. But if you judged my diet on my macro intakes, my diet is very good.
That's what I'm trying to express here. Arbitrary metrics like sugar intake and how often you eat fast food are meaningless. What matters is the nutrients you give your body.0 -
In fact, those that enjoy "bad food" semi regularly to regularly, while working out and monitoring calories and macros seem to be the most successful people here.
You noticed that too?
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I'm not eating a poor diet. That's what I'm trying to say. If you judged my diet on sugar intake, it would be a poor diet because I regularly get 60-100+ grams of sugar in a day. If you judged my diet on how often I ate fast food, it would be a poor diet because I eat fast food like 10+ times a week. But if you judged my diet on my macro intakes, my diet is very good.
That's what I'm trying to express here. Arbitrary metrics like sugar intake and how often you eat fast food are meaningless. What matters is the nutrients you give your body.
Agreed. You've done a great job with your body / exercise / diet. I don't even look at the sugar summary in MFP, since it's pretty much a joke. (Daww I'm over sugar, due to apple! Oh no!) . Only concern I have is if someone took your summary information (i.e. sugar intake and fast food frequency) and results (lost weight, low bf!) without looking closely at what's going on.0 -
I believe there is plenty of evidence to back up the notion that added sugar and simple carbs are bad for you.
I already asked you to explain your claims.
Isnt this what we are taught from a young age anyways? Too much candy, brownies, chips etc = getting fat?
We're also taught about Santa Claus
I guess this is one of those situations when some one would need to look at the body fat percentage of the person telling them excessive amounts of added sugars and simple carbs are acceptable and make their own determination whether or not they want to follow their advice.
Let me guess, you're in shape and now you are an expert on nutrition?
I counted my calories for a year, worked out like crazy and still had belly fat because I was staying within my calories, but using a good portion of calories on sweets. I was a size 4 but with a waist that was very disproportionate to the rest of my body. I looked like I was still pregnant. I cut out the majority of sweets and replaced with fruit which has natural sugar and my belly fat has reduced substantially.
Good on you for reaching your goals, seriously.
So you can eat all the sugar and junk food you want, but in my opinion you are doing yourself a serious disservice.
Where did I recommend this?
I am sorry but when you post misinformation and are called out upon it, the correct response is to either A) defend your claims or
back out gracefully; not C) turn it into a prideful passive-aggressive ad hominem attack
I'm sorry you disagree with my statement that sugar (meaning added sugar) causes excess fat. That being said maybe its time you move on and eat all the junk you would like.
I find it really amusing that a grown person that I'm assuming has responsibilities (meaning a job, possibly children, etc) would waste their time attacking people online for their food choices? Does my conscious effort to eat less added sugar and eat more nutrient rich foods deter you from stuffing yourself with candy and fast food? No. So why do you care so much? I know this world is full of people who believe their way is the only way, and I guess based on this interaction with you I'd have to say you fall into that category.
While I'll admit this back and forth was a good way to kill a little time while the network was down at work, I see now that you are really taking this to heart which is a little disturbing. It's just the internet, and the opinions and choices of others don't affect you in real life. :yawn:0 -
sugar (meaning added sugar) causes excess fat.
It doesn't.0 -
If you judged my diet on sugar intake, it would be a poor diet because I regularly get 60-100+ grams of sugar in a day.
Oh dear....Man that's nunthin'.
Eat over 200g most days. Cutting just fine. Have abs.
Very high carb intakes, especially eaten in a short period of time, helps to stave off the cutting while lean side effects.
Fat people can have all the vile toward carbs they want. They've probably never known what its like to actually be hungry in their life. I know I didn't until cutting into the ab zone. Eating a big dose of carbs makes the always hungry/food not filling/dreaming and daydreaming about huge cuts of meat/ravenous hunger go away, at least for a few days. If you've never cut while lean before, you have no idea of how mentally taxing it can get. Carbs, and only carbs, help the issue.0 -
sugar (meaning added sugar) causes excess fat.
It doesn't.
I'm sorry you disagree with my statement that sugar (meaning added sugar) causes excess fat. That being said maybe its time you move on and eat all the junk you would like.
Since you edited my response to only include this portion, I felt I would remind you of this. :laugh:0 -
I'm sorry you disagree with my statement that sugar (meaning added sugar) causes excess fat.
Repeating the same lie over and over doesn't make it true.
If you're actually interested in convincing anyone, and the fact that you keep telling the same fib over and over indicates that you are, then support the claim with actual evidence. Otherwise, your BS claim is just the latest in an endless stream of BS in the form of broscience and Dr Oz recommendations.0 -
Donuts, candy, sodas, fried food does not equal lean and fit.
You should have a look at my diary. I'm under 12% body fat, by the way.
I second this.0 -
Regarding the sugar issue you guys are arguing about, I think this is true:
The body won't turn to the fat reserve for energy if it has gotten enough carbs (sugar).
So the less the sugar the more fat you burn.
Right?0 -
Regarding the sugar issue you guys are arguing about, I think this is true:
The body won't turn to the fat reserve for energy if it has gotten enough carbs (sugar).
So the less the sugar the more fat you burn.
Right?
Your body won't turn to the fat reserve for energy if it has gotten enough energy from food. Sugar is irrelevant.
As long as you do quality exercise and get enough protein in your diet, and eat fewer calories than your body burns in a day, your body will make up for the calorie deficit by consuming fat.0 -
Preposterous.
I post here to try and help people. I'm sure you think you're doing the same thing, which I admire, yet the fact remains you are giving not only poor but untrue advice. How many people have to fail to lose weight and turn their lives around due to misguided beliefs that they have to completely cut out foods that they enjoy before you are satisfied? Good day.
This thread is pretty dramatic. She didn't say to completely cut out foods. And the two guys agreeing with the implied donuts, soda, etc diet at sub-12% bf are both applying high to extreme food management in their diets - and are nearly entirely clean of donuts, soda, etc. It's pretty strange to follow.0 -
Again, the point is energy balance and being within you macros. He's merely stating that sugar doesnt automatically accumulate as fat.
Regarding your previous post about your volume of activity and having enough caloric room to be able to eat what you want. I'd consider my metabolism relatively decent, with a little cushion for extra treats and such. However, I'm routinely over my sugar. While the majority of my foods are nutritionally dense in terms of micros, I still make room for treats. BTW i only workout 4 hours a week.0 -
Preposterous.
I post here to try and help people. I'm sure you think you're doing the same thing, which I admire, yet the fact remains you are giving not only poor but untrue advice. How many people have to fail to lose weight and turn their lives around due to misguided beliefs that they have to completely cut out foods that they enjoy before you are satisfied? Good day.
This thread is pretty dramatic. She didn't say to completely cut out foods. And the two guys agreeing with the implied donuts, soda, etc diet at sub-12% bf are both applying high to extreme food management in their diets - and are nearly entirely clean of donuts, soda, etc. It's pretty strange to follow.
I eat ice cream almost every day, and regularly get 60-100 grams of sugar a day.
What we're arguing is that there's no point to heavily restricting sugar intake. There's no reason in the world to. The girl keeps claiming that sugar causes belly fat, which is absolutely preposterous.
Scaring people away from imaginary nutritional bogeymen makes them think they can't be healthy and fit while eating their favorite foods. Scaring people off their favorite foods makes it harder for them to walk the line and dramatically increases their chances of failing and putting the weight back on.
There's a reason all the most successful people are the ones who enjoy plenty of "unclean" foods like ice cream and pop tarts. Once you accept that you can eat pretty much any food you want, providing you make it fit into your macro goals, it becomes infinitely easier to maintain the lifestyle.0 -
This thread is pretty dramatic. She didn't say to completely cut out foods. And the two guys agreeing with the implied donuts, soda, etc diet at sub-12% bf are both applying high to extreme food management in their diets - and are nearly entirely clean of donuts, soda, etc. It's pretty strange to follow.
I know right, the way she's talking you'd think we were having it on.
I've only ever been saying that sugar is not inherently harmful and it should not be feared. Losing weight is hard enough, you don't need to add all this other stuff on top, especially when it is not founded in modern nutritional science.0 -
I'm sorry you disagree with my statement that sugar (meaning added sugar) causes excess fat. That being said maybe its time you move on and eat all the junk you would like. I find it really amusing that a grown person that I'm assuming has responsibilities (meaning a job, possibly children, etc) would waste their time attacking people online for their food choices? Does my conscious effort to eat less added sugar and eat more nutrient rich foods deter you from stuffing yourself with candy and fast food? No. So why do you care so much? I know this world is full of people who believe their way is the only way, and I guess based on this interaction with you I'd have to say you fall into that category.
While I'll admit this back and forth was a good way to kill a little time while the network was down at work, I see now that you are really taking this to heart which is a little disturbing. It's just the internet, and the opinions and choices of others don't affect you in real life. :yawn:
Preposterous.
I post here to try and help people. I'm sure you think you're doing the same thing, which I admire, yet the fact remains you are giving not only poor but untrue advice. How many people have to fail to lose weight and turn their lives around due to misguided beliefs that they have to completely cut out foods that they enjoy before you are satisfied? Good day.
LMAO...get real. you need a hobby.0 -
There's a reason all the most successful people are the ones who enjoy plenty of "unclean" foods like ice cream and pop tarts. Once you accept that you can eat pretty much any food you want, providing you make it fit into your macro goals, it becomes infinitely easier to maintain the lifestyle.
What you're eating is at best 1/4 the amount of "unclean" foods the average American on an upward fat trajectory would eat. You have a disciplined plan and diet. And lolbroscience is going well beyond your approach, with meticulous tracking and a whole lot of supplements. You're both also eating high to extremely high protein and high fiber diets.
And you're both presenting this image of eating whatever. Oh yeah I eat bad foods, no worries, lol. While understating the HUGE caveat of fitting that within your plan. You're right that if you're fitting diet into an exercise plan and macro goals, you can mix and match. You can eat some ice cream or fries or whatever. Sugar in itself, or units of energy (calories) in a vacuum are not inherently good or bad.
The problem that drew people here in the first place was overeating and poor diet choices. Understating diet choices while obviously paying a ton of attention to your own diet choices strikes me as misleading to the people who are here primarily due to diet choices.0 -
I'm sorry you disagree with my statement that sugar (meaning added sugar) causes excess fat. That being said maybe its time you move on and eat all the junk you would like. I find it really amusing that a grown person that I'm assuming has responsibilities (meaning a job, possibly children, etc) would waste their time attacking people online for their food choices? Does my conscious effort to eat less added sugar and eat more nutrient rich foods deter you from stuffing yourself with candy and fast food? No. So why do you care so much? I know this world is full of people who believe their way is the only way, and I guess based on this interaction with you I'd have to say you fall into that category.
While I'll admit this back and forth was a good way to kill a little time while the network was down at work, I see now that you are really taking this to heart which is a little disturbing. It's just the internet, and the opinions and choices of others don't affect you in real life. :yawn:
Preposterous.
I post here to try and help people. I'm sure you think you're doing the same thing, which I admire, yet the fact remains you are giving not only poor but untrue advice. How many people have to fail to lose weight and turn their lives around due to misguided beliefs that they have to completely cut out foods that they enjoy before you are satisfied? Good day.
LMAO...get real. you need a hobby.
Does it make you feel good to give people nonsense advice and needlessly scare them away from foods they love, thus increasing their chances of failing?
Edit - need to resize :grumble:0 -
Ill add in regards to sugar.
first off its mainly with carbs. carbs actually dont make you fat.
fat makes you fat
but there is a balance of energy oxidation between carbohydrate stores and fat stores depending on availability of glycogen.
Overall energy balance is key. there are many factors such as TEF, GNG, DNL etc. but overalll caloric intake is key. Pointing the problem toward a specific macronutrient of why you gained weight is ridiculous
Lyle talked about how saturated fat is more likely to be stored(not significant difference vs poly)
I guess if you look at it from an evolutionary standpoint, saturated fat comes from animals, if you fight animals for meat you will be experiencing quite a bit of impact, the fat can help cushion and protect vital organs from blows.
There is no scientific evidence that promote the above statement, just an idea.0 -
Yikes! Ish got real on this thread! LOL! Let's hug it out guys!
It's all about what fills you up. I have a crazy sweet tooth, but I also know when I indulge in the doughnut I'm gonna be starving an hour later. Where as if I eat my whole grain fiber english muffin that's only 80 calories and put a little bit of honey on it I'm literally eating half the calories, satisfying my almost insatable sweet tooth, and I'm full!
I'm not dead and I'm not going to act like it. I've tried denying myself the stuff I love and that never works. So now I'm focusing on eating more fruits, veggies, fiber and protein. That stuff fills me up! After eating all that stuff and exercising if I still have room (and or time) I'll indulge a bit.
I say let them eat cake! .....Right after they eat their veggies, fruits, lean protein, vitamins, and fiber! :0)0 -
Eat mostly (80%?) unprocessed, whole foods and enjoy your cake/chocolate/cheese/wine/sacrifice to the Gods as you please. It's only ever been about a sustainable caloric deficit Key word there being sustainable. 0
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sugar (meaning added sugar) causes excess fat.
It doesn't.
I'm sorry you disagree with my statement that sugar (meaning added sugar) causes excess fat. That being said maybe its time you move on and eat all the junk you would like.
Since you edited my response to only include this portion, I felt I would remind you of this. :laugh:
Well, yeah. If you add sugar that pushes you past your calorie limit, you certainly will gain. Course, if you were at your limit and then ate a bunch of, say, carrots ... same thing.0 -
sugar (meaning added sugar) causes excess fat.
It doesn't.
I'm sorry you disagree with my statement that sugar (meaning added sugar) causes excess fat. That being said maybe its time you move on and eat all the junk you would like.
Since you edited my response to only include this portion, I felt I would remind you of this. :laugh:
Well, yeah. If you add sugar that pushes you past your calorie limit, you certainly will gain. Course, if you were at your limit and then ate a bunch of, say, carrots ... same thing.
^ this is the point we are trying to make.0 -
looks like I win. 0
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