So, whose fault is it?

shastacrystal

Both of their fault:( So sad:(

lalaland82

Both equally to blame!! Worst of all sober I bet both of them would have said they would never have done that.
When I was a barmaid we used to take the car keys off of a couple of regulars who we knew would drink drive before we would serve them (not always pretty at closing) but you can't do it for every customer esp if you don't know if they will be driving.

DalekBrittany

No, I didn't mention but they did not hurt anyone else! Thank goodness too.

rml_16

I agree about the bar thing. Funny enough the bar was called Felonies. They did not cut them off and I have a huge issue with that, but that's a whooole different story!

My BF has a pretty serious problem with alcohol, but he can be nearly passing out drunk and unless you KNOW him, you would never know. He acts stone cold sober, except I know him well enough to see subtle changes.

The bartender may not have even realized how drunk they were or that they were driving. But if he did, the bar is legally culpable if this was in the US. Even if he didn't know, the bar can be fined and sued by the families.

Dunkirk

Sad Deb let them take a car, to go drinking

bloominheck

Geez this is so sad. I am always the DD with my friends as I actually do not drink. It seems that there are more drunk related accidents in my area. It's very disturbing.

rml_16

No, I didn't mention but they did not hurt anyone else! Thank goodness too.

That's a blessing.

On March 1, a high school classmate of mine and his wife and their three children got hit by a drunk driver (though this isn't official yet, the family has said the guy was drunk). My friend and his wife both died. This was at 5 in the afternoon on a weekday.

The guy who hit them had two previous DUI convictions from the same stretch of road and the month after he killed them, he got charged in our hometown (different state, but close to where they all lived) with a THIRD DUI, driving on a suspended license and cocaine possession from an arrest the November prior.

Don't ask me how or why, but they allowed this creep to walk out of the hospital and they can't find him now.

TheCaren

Each one is legally responsible for his own actions. They are also responsible for the consequences of their actions. The driver is is responsible for the death of the passenger in a DUI crash. That's the law in California. It doens't matter that the passenger was equally polluted and CHOSE to get into the passenger seat.

We had a local family whose son was killed in a DUI crash where the young man's long time friend was the driver. The family of the decedent pleaded with the court on behalf of the DRIVER for leniency, recognizing that their son was equally drunk and chose to get into the car knowing the driver had been drinking too much. The law is the law. You drink and drive and someone dies, you pay the price. But this family also recognized that their deceased son made a choice also.

Now who is more morally wrong in all of this, and who is the victim? There is no victim, other than the families of the two men, one who is dead and the other who is incarcerated and suffering from what I assume is a traumatic brain injury. Both men knew how drunk they were (I'd be curious to know what their BACs were), both men blew off the offer of a ride home, both men got into a car knowing the driver was too drunk to drive safely/legally. Who knows, they may have drawn straws as to who would drive and Gary drew the short straw and became the passenger who died. It could have easily gone the other direction. If you insist on seeing Gary as the "victim" in this, at least recognize he played a role in his own victimization. It's not like he was a small child in the car who had no choice but to do what the adult said and get into the car as a passenger of a drunk driver. It's not like he was the driver of a second vehicle the drunk driver plowed into and killed. He was an active participant in his victimization.

All that being said. My sympathy goes out to everyone involved, along with a reminder as we approach this holiday weekend that this could be YOU. Don't drink and drive.

paintlisapurple

Well...both are equally at fault. They are both adults and both made their own decisions.

MizAngie

I have lost 2 cousins (one from each parent-both named Laura) Laura (mom side) was out drinking, passed out at a friends house, woke up and drove home. VERY hung over...still impaired. Flipped her car and broke her neck.
Laura (dad side) and her boyfriend were driving home late from work when a drunk driver ran a red light, T Boned their car, killing my cousin. Her boyfriend was in a coma for a couple of weeks.
This was 20+ years ago.

This past July my cousin and his girlfriend were driving along the ditch on a quad (they were pulling a small trailer with lawn chairs, blankets and coolers) Young guy in powerful truck (on a straight road) went off the road and hit them. Killed the girlfriend, my cousin unable to walk. The RCMP tried to charge my cousin with being impaired. He hadn't had 1 ounce of anything. BUT he was pulling a trailer with coolers in it. (they broke on impact so the smell of alcohol was noticable) They had to drop the charges but they weren't happy about it and caused alot of grief for my cousin who was already so full of grief.

dayone987

Sad Deb let them take a car, to go drinking

Deb "let them" ?!!

Assuming they are adults and it was Gary's car, you can't put it on Deb.

I'd say they are each responsible for the decision they made

DalekBrittany

Each one is legally responsible for his own actions. They are also responsible for the consequences of their actions. The driver is is responsible for the death of the passenger in a DUI crash. That's the law in California. It doens't matter that the passenger was equally polluted and CHOSE to get into the passenger seat.

We had a local family whose son was killed in a DUI crash where the young man's long time friend was the driver. The family of the decedent pleaded with the court on behalf of the DRIVER for leniency, recognizing that their son was equally drunk and chose to get into the car knowing the driver had been drinking too much. The law is the law. You drink and drive and someone dies, you pay the price. But this family also recognized that their deceased son made a choice also.

Now who is more morally wrong in all of this, and who is the victim? There is no victim, other than the families of the two men, one who is dead and the other who is incarcerated and suffering from what I assume is a traumatic brain injury. Both men knew how drunk they were (I'd be curious to know what their BACs were), both men blew off the offer of a ride home, both men got into a car knowing the driver was too drunk to drive safely/legally. Who knows, they may have drawn straws as to who would drive and Gary drew the short straw and became the passenger who died. It could have easily gone the other direction. If you insist on seeing Gary as the "victim" in this, at least recognize he played a role in his own victimization. It's not like he was a small child in the car who had no choice but to do what the adult said and get into the car as a passenger of a drunk driver. It's not like he was the driver of a second vehicle the drunk driver plowed into and killed. He was an active participant in his victimization.

All that being said. My sympathy goes out to everyone involved, along with a reminder as we approach this holiday weekend that this could be YOU. Don't drink and drive.

Very well said. It is not a coincidence that I posted this with the holiday coming up. I don't know if you mean you as in me, or in general, but I don't think of Gary as the victim. They both were drunk and made a bad decision.

Also, please, whoever said it was Deb's fault...it's not. In so, so many ways. Though, to this day she still thinks it is. I can't imagine the guilt that woman feels day in and day out over not being more pushy about it. But they were adults. Silly her, she thought they would be responsible.

TheCaren

I was speaking of a universal "you" in my comments.

And I couldn't agree more. Deb had no responsibility in this whatsoever. I assume these were two grown men of legal drinking age (and even if they weren't what was Deb going to do to stop them?). They made the choices they made. I pray she finds peace at some point and accepts there was NOTHING she could have done to have prevented this.

So glad that most of the time when my daughter goes out with friends and knows they'll be "tying one on" that they take a cab to go out. Problem solved.

madworld1

Both were irresponsible. Neither should have been in that car without a designated driver. It's a serious thing people. My dad was drinking and drugging when he was 16. He's lucky he didn't kill anyone. But, he has been paralyzed ever since. He's barely 60 and has been in and out of hospitals and nursing homes with complications from his paraplegia.

supplemama

I was thinking about this last night and thought it would make for an interesting topic/debate, though hopefully not too heated of one!

Here's the scenario (this is a mostly true story, and one of these men is a very close family member. I won't say which so I don't seem biased!)

A guy (Mikell) and his best friend (Gary) go out drinking. They are there allllll day getting drunk. Shortly before they left Gary's house, his wife (Deb) tells them both: If you need a ride, call me. I don't care how late it is. Please do not drive.

IF you need a ride???

IF? WTF

If I were Deb first and foremost I'd be mad at myself for letting 2 drunks get in the car and drive away with just telling them, 'If you need a ride call me'. Who does that?? 2 folks who I know have been drinking all day are NOT just driving off. Oh no, I would have called the police right then and there!

DalekBrittany

I was thinking about this last night and thought it would make for an interesting topic/debate, though hopefully not too heated of one!

Here's the scenario (this is a mostly true story, and one of these men is a very close family member. I won't say which so I don't seem biased!)

A guy (Mikell) and his best friend (Gary) go out drinking. They are there allllll day getting drunk. Shortly before they left Gary's house, his wife (Deb) tells them both: If you need a ride, call me. I don't care how late it is. Please do not drive.

IF you need a ride???

IF? WTF

If I were Deb first and foremost I'd be mad at myself for letting 2 drunks get in the car and drive away with just telling them, 'If you need a ride call me'. Who does that?? 2 folks who I know have been drinking all day are NOT just driving off. Oh no, I would have called the police right then and there!

Actually if you re-read the story, she told them that before they went out. She had no idea if they were going drinking or not, just that they were going out.

I will reiterate, this is in no way Deb's fault. If you think so, you're wrong, plain and simple.

ninerbuff

I was thinking about this last night and thought it would make for an interesting topic/debate, though hopefully not too heated of one!

Here's the scenario (this is a mostly true story, and one of these men is a very close family member. I won't say which so I don't seem biased!)

A guy (Mikell) and his best friend (Gary) go out drinking. They are there allllll day getting drunk. Shortly before they left Gary's house, his wife (Deb) tells them both: If you need a ride, call me. I don't care how late it is. Please do not drive. Now let's say that Mikell and Gary decide that they won't call Deb and decide to drive home. Mikell drives, Gary gets in the passenger seat. For the sake of the scenario, let's say they both make it home just fine.

Now I'm asking you to out yourself in Deb's shoes: do you put the responsibility solely on Gary, for getting in the car with a drunk driver and not calling a cab, not holding Mikell at all at fault, do you put it all on Mikell for being the one that actually drove, not putting Gary at all at fault, or do you get equally mad at both of them?

I know where I stand, but I don't want to seem biased. So, whose fault do you think it would be?

ETA: in case anyone else is curious and doesn't happen to read my reply down there, no, they did not make it home okay. Gary is dead and Mikell is handicapped as well as serving an 11 year sentence for DUI manslaughter.

One thing I've learned about drunk people.........................they don't make good choices. IF it were me, I would have dropped their *kitten* off at the bar instead of letting them drive there in the first place. NEVER trust that a drunk person is going to make the right decision.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

DalekBrittany

So, to clarify further since I can't edit my post:

Deb had NO idea these two were going drinking. She thought they were just going to go get some things they said they needed for work. They told her they *MIGHT* stop and get a drink later on in the day, and after she said her piece, they agreed if they went to get drinks they would call her.

She had no way of knowing that they were going to booze all day and get completely trashed. Gary and Mikell were both grown *kitten* men. She did not "let them" drive drunk.

madworld1

It's not Deb's fault. Simple.

KANGOOJUMPS

I start with the driver, but both of course.

endoftheside

In high school, a friend of mine was killed in a one-car crash by a drunken driven (friend was the passenger). The driver was unhurt. At the time, I blamed the driver 100% for killing my friend and couldn't stand to even look at him when he came back to school (the next school year I believe, I don't know if he had to do any jail time). The driver was responsible for his passenger. In retrospect, it isn't as clear-cut and having to live with the fact that you killed your friend has to be hard, but deep down I still blame him.

IpuffyheartHeelsinthegym

Both. This actually happened to a friend of mine. He got in the car with a drunk driver, thinking he would look after the friend. The friend started racing, had to swerve to miss hitting something and hit a tree. A limb of that tree went through my friends face. hid fiance was in the car behind them and saw the whole thing. He died in her arms. Don't drink and drive.

DalekBrittany

In high school, a friend of mine was killed in a one-car crash by a drunken driven (friend was the passenger). The driver was unhurt. At the time, I blamed the driver 100% for killing my friend and couldn't stand to even look at him when he came back to school (the next school year I believe, I don't know if he had to do any jail time). The driver was responsible for his passenger. In retrospect, it isn't as clear-cut and having to live with the fact that you killed your friend has to be hard, but deep down I still blame him.

That's Deb's situation, but your friend would be Gary in this case. They have three kids.

DalekBrittany

Bumping this up again, hoping more people will see it in time for the weekend. Maybe this can change someone's mind about drunk driving, who knows.