UK Programme on fasting
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I watched this programme last night and found it fascinating. Especially the part about your brain cells growing when fasting. Both my husband and I have started today, I want to see if I can lower my cholestoral through this regime and come off statins and my husband wants to lower his risk to diabetes.
Will let you know how we get along.
It is 3.30 now and have had water and black tea and feel fine. A couple of hunger pangs but they passed. I do beleve this is do-able.0 -
did the program mention any long term effects of intermittent fasting? it may lose weight quickly but i'd want to know what effect it had on my hormine balance in the long run before considering it!
the programme was about longevity and the effects that calorie restriction and fasting could have on the production of IGF-1. I recoomend trying to get hold of it if possible if you want to know more. It wasn't really about weight loss, that was just a side-effect.0 -
did the program mention any long term effects of intermittent fasting? it may lose weight quickly but i'd want to know what effect it had on my hormine balance in the long run before considering it!
yes,in regard to laboratory animals, there are at present no long term studies on humans. Watch the program, and it did not lose weight quickly over the 5 week period for the person who in the study.
Lowered %AGE BODY fat
Lowered weight as a %age of body fat
Lowered HDL
Raised LDL
Lowered blood glucose levels
Lowered IGF-1 - which for a bodybuilder bulkiing would not be a desired outcome. But for cellular repair is very good.0 -
She asked a valid question. You don't get to decide what questions get to be asked.@ I am asking about lean mass -
It is the whole flow of that quote, not you in particular. But if you missed the point, it was about aging not dieting and not about answering questions about lean mass, that was not the data being explored. So, ask questions about IGF-1 and fasting.0 -
She asked a valid question. You don't get to decide what questions get to be asked.@ I am asking about lean mass -
It is the whole flow of that quote, not you in particular. But if you missed the point, it was about aging not dieting and not about answering questions about lean mass, that was not the data being explored. So, ask questions about IGF-1 and fasting.
I have every right to comment that the whole thread is descending into mythology and misunderstanding like some horrendous chinese whisper. The topic is: UK Programme on fasting, it would not seem unreasonable that people who have questions at least keep it relevant to the topic and have watched the programme.
Thanks for your interest. Now watch the program or start a thread that perhaps others will find interesting - like
I did not see that programme on UK TV last night on fasting but can I ask loads of questions.0 -
I don't know whether he lost lean mass or not.
But if you check his twitter feed a bunch of people have asked the same questions as here.
https://twitter.com/DrMichaelMosley
I was interested in why his wife, a GP, although impressed with the results, didn't seem interested in doing it herself.0 -
"I was interested in why his wife, a GP, although impressed with the results, didn't seem interested in doing it herself. "
He is also a qualified GP, he has consistently said he hates the diet and exercise regimes and much of the scientific study that goes with diet and exercise and it his program, so for him to be so clearly impressed with the health benefits that was enough for me and I am still not interested in the weight loss but for the other benefits which is what the programme was about.
Did you want his wife, a GP, and not a TV presenter to be spinning cartwheels and shouting WOO WOO WOO I start tomorrow. I think what you saw was called "wife interest" and not professional interest.0 -
Krista Varady who was in the programe was involved in http://www.ajcn.org/content/90/5/1138.long a study of alternate day fasting.
That paper reported that " Fat mass decreased (P < 0.01) by 5.4 ± 0.8 kg after 8 wk of diet, whereas changes in fat-free mass were not significant (−0.1 ± 0.1 kg). "
The diet intervention used was "All subjects consumed 25% of their baseline energy needs on the “fast” day (24 h) and then consumed food ad libitum on each alternate “feed” day (24 h)." So the "fast" is actually a 75% calorie reduction.
On the "fast" days they ate 25-30g protein only, 450 calories. http://www.ajcn.org/content/90/5/1138/T1.expansion.html
On his Twitter feed the presenter says that exercise isn't helpful to IGF-1 reduction.
ETA For clarity, the paper above is for illustration and to anwer the lean body mass question, it isn't directly related to the TV programme other than through its lead author appearing.0 -
Hello. Has anyone dug up any more detailed info on how to do this healthily. Last nights programme was an interesting introduction and I would love to read more about it, eg is it a good idea to workout on fast days etc...
I wish all the best to everyone trying it.
I have nearly completed my first day and it really wasn't that bad at all0 -
Krista Varady who was in the programe was involved in http://www.ajcn.org/content/90/5/1138.long a study of alternate day fasting.
That paper reported that " Fat mass decreased (P < 0.01) by 5.4 ± 0.8 kg after 8 wk of diet, whereas changes in fat-free mass were not significant (−0.1 ± 0.1 kg). "
The diet intervention used was "All subjects consumed 25% of their baseline energy needs on the “fast” day (24 h) and then consumed food ad libitum on each alternate “feed” day (24 h)." So the "fast" is actually a 75% calorie reduction.
On the "fast" days they ate 25-30g protein only, 450 calories. http://www.ajcn.org/content/90/5/1138/T1.expansion.html
On his Twitter feed the presenter says that exercise isn't helpful to IGF-1 reduction.
ETA For clarity, the paper above is for illustration and to anwer the lean body mass question, it isn't directly related to the TV programme other than through its lead author appearing.
Great stuff, I deduced that exercise was unhelpful. Like losing fat free mass, muscle mass, not the right conditions created, like starving or disease.0 -
Those asking about the reducing protein on his Twitter he's stating no more than the recommended amount of 60g.
He's also stated on Twitter that if you lose weight too quickly then it will be a mixture of lean body mass and fat. Lean body mass measures weren't mentioned in the programme.
He did this to investigate the effect on health, the weight loss was a bonus, and he sometimes only fasted 1 day instead of 2 a week because he thought he was losing too much weight. On Twitter he says he is going to continue fasting 1/2 days a week and then get his health checked after 12months.
He eats 2 meals - breakfast and dinner and normally fasted on a Tuesday and Thursday.0 -
Cool. Thanks for the info0
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i found the fact that your brain grows new neurons amazing...the human body is incredible!!0
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I've not watched the programme yet (hoping to catch up with it in the next day or 2) but was just interested in whether they looked at the benefits of IF on people with memory problems, early signs of dementia type illnesses etc???
Kay0 -
This sounds like "calorie cycling". I read up on it and I hear it's a pretty good way to break a plateau.0
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Saw the show. I am wondering if you want to maintain weight but lose body fat would fasting be a good idea? He lost loads of fat in 5 weeks.0
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I've not watched the programme yet (hoping to catch up with it in the next day or 2) but was just interested in whether they looked at the benefits of IF on people with memory problems, early signs of dementia type illnesses etc???
Yes, the third visit in the US was to Baltimore to discuss that kind of thing.0 -
Haven't seen it, looking forward to watching though!
I started intermittent fasting almost two months ago and I loved it! I had more energy than normal and could keep up with my family's eating habits (they're big eaters). I committed myself to the Leangains fasting times so I fasted for 16 hours (7-8 of which I slept for) and ate for 8. It was brilliant. Very easy to follow, and I recommend it to anyone who believes their lifestyle doesn't fit the breakfast-lunch-dinner lifestyle. (=0 -
I've not watched the programme yet (hoping to catch up with it in the next day or 2) but was just interested in whether they looked at the benefits of IF on people with memory problems, early signs of dementia type illnesses etc???
Yes, the third visit in the US was to Baltimore to discuss that kind of thing.
Studies have looked at Mice with Alzheimers and the effect of diet on them. On his Twitter account the presenter does say it'll be interesting to see the results of studies on humans with alzheimers.0 -
I didn't see the programme, although i'll see if it's available on watch again, sounds intersting - I just read a book by Dr John Briffa called 'Escape the diet trap' and he has a chapter in his book advocating intermittent fasting. He also recommends reducing carbohydrates, cutting out grains and eating nuts, meat and vegetables and no processed crap.0
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I've been doing IF (Leangains 16/8) for about 8 months now, and the results have been stellar. I've gotten leaps and bounds stronger and stayed at roughly the same weight (recomposition). I haven't gone into a hard cut on it yet, but I'm sure it would work like gangbusters. I eat AT LEAST as much as I did when I was just eating throughout the day, usually a 1k calorie lunch at noon and then after I get home from work, I eat between 1k and 1500 calories more (depending on if I went to the gym that day).
Also, regardless of whether or not you actually give intermittent fasting a try, this website has some GREAT recommendations for calorie totals and macros splits for people who weight train. MFP's are crap, so even if you don't use the one I recommend, do some independent research on that.
http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/0 -
This sounds like "calorie cycling". I read up on it and I hear it's a pretty good way to break a plateau.
Calorie cycling isn't the same thing, but most people who follow IF also cycle calories. Basically, what calorie cycling means is that you don't track exercise calories; you just eat a pre-determined amount depending on whether it's a training day or a rest day. Particularly useful for people who are strength training and want to be able to build muscle while still digging into fat reserves. Eat a deficit on rest days, and a slight surplus on training days, and whittle away.0 -
This sounds like "calorie cycling". I read up on it and I hear it's a pretty good way to break a plateau.
Calorie cycling isn't the same thing, but most people who follow IF also cycle calories. Basically, what calorie cycling means is that you don't track exercise calories; you just eat a pre-determined amount depending on whether it's a training day or a rest day. Particularly useful for people who are strength training and want to be able to build muscle while still digging into fat reserves. Eat a deficit on rest days, and a slight surplus on training days, and whittle away.
I am going to give Lean Gains a try after watching the show last night. Seems like the best IF for me.0 -
What I find really interesting is how a television audience can watch a TV programme and yet take away such mixed messages. As I saw it the programme dealt with three issues; a restricted calorie diet based largely on fruit and veg; an alternate day diet fasting one day and eating ' normaly the next; a variant of this with a restricted 600 calorie for men and 500 calories for women for two consecutive days followed by five days of eating a healthy balanced diet. Dr Molesly did add a caveat that this approach may not work for everyone and that fasting should not be undertaken without medical advice. He also said that much more research would be needed but that the approach showed the most promise for his situation. I plan to watch the programme again if only to test the accuracy of my recall ability. Has anyone else been puzzled by the number of people showing a desire to adopt a similar approach without seeking validation of the claims made in the programme. References were given for the academics appearing in the programme as well as the universities where the studies took place. How many people will follow this up before trying to adopt such a course of action. I'm not seeking to be controversial, just puzzled. Just for the record I found the programme interesting and thought provoking. Dr Molsley is an excellent presenter.0
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Has anyone else been puzzled by the number of people showing a desire to adopt a similar approach without seeking validation of the claims made in the programme.
Not really, A similar thing happened when Newcastle University did a reversal of Type II diabetes with a VLCD quick weight loss - all the interest was in the diet and losing weight, the diabetics were ignored !
As a statistical outlier I have read up the authors / institutions / concepts involved, but I know that isn't for 90% of the general public - they-re just looking for a way to lose weight that actually works for them. Some of them are looking for an easy fix too I guess.0 -
Fasting is safe, people have been doing it forever, now it just looks like we know the reason why, it's good for us. Besides, I'd bet most people won't keep it up anyway for the same reason...it's good for us. :bigsmile:0
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bump0
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What I find really interesting is how a television audience can watch a TV programme and yet take away such mixed messages. As I saw it the programme dealt with three issues; a restricted calorie diet based largely on fruit and veg; an alternate day diet fasting one day and eating ' normaly the next; a variant of this with a restricted 600 calorie for men and 500 calories for women for two consecutive days followed by five days of eating a healthy balanced diet. Dr Molesly did add a caveat that this approach may not work for everyone and that fasting should not be undertaken without medical advice. He also said that much more research would be needed but that the approach showed the most promise for his situation. I plan to watch the programme again if only to test the accuracy of my recall ability. Has anyone else been puzzled by the number of people showing a desire to adopt a similar approach without seeking validation of the claims made in the programme. References were given for the academics appearing in the programme as well as the universities where the studies took place. How many people will follow this up before trying to adopt such a course of action. I'm not seeking to be controversial, just puzzled. Just for the record I found the programme interesting and thought provoking. Dr Molsley is an excellent presenter.
I have been on the if boards on here and done a fair bit of research other than just the programme.0 -
I watched the programme and found it very interesting. What I'm trying to find out is, do the fasting days HAVE to be on consecutive days or any two (non consecutie days) in a week??
This would seem to me to make a big difference.0 -
In saw the programme was a bit wushu washy but my hubby is a personal trainer & reads slots of science studies from valued places! Iv been intermittent fasting for 4 weeks iday of 24 hrs! Feel so much better! Iv cut all sugar , processed foods , dairy , wheat , alcohol! So days in eat it's lean proteins, veg , berries, apples, salad! 4-5 ltr water , nuts seeds, lost 11 inches & 9 lb in 4 weeks ! Total 84 lb now!! Going to up to x2 days a week fasting!0
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