Gained weight

Please stop citing Dr. Oz as a source

Yup. Not a good source of info.

This is by no means exhaustive.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11319656
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=873508
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19943985
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20339363

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17909674 ( I put this one in there because this is a somewhat extreme case of eating at night)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3508745
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/02/060202080832.htm (not a primary source, but still)

und so weiter.

There IS plenty of evidence that eating breakfast helps with satiety and may reduce overall calories consumed, but it does not have any magical properties that jumpstarts metabolism.

As for Oz, this will get you started:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/a-seal-of-approval/#more-18092
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/04/04/dr-oz-promotes-quackeryagain/

1. If you are 40+, it is important NEVER to eat more than 500 calories at any sitting. Your metabolism will burn faster (like someone in 20s) if you follow this. There was a study I read.

Urban legend

2. When you get up in the morning, eat something, ANYTHING, as soon as you are awake. A cracker, a peanut, ANYTHING. This will turn ON your metabolism for the day. The sooner you eat, the sooner it starts.

Totally false. Your metabolism runs even when you sleep. I still breathe and have a heart beat and brain function while sleeping. All that demands fuel.

3. Eat every 2 to 3 hours all day (have healthy snacks with you like pumpkin seeds or vegetable chips). Breakfast, mid-morning snack, lunch, afternoon snack, dinner. This keeps your metabolism turned on and running all day.

I think this method is generally good for controlling your appetite but it probably has little to nothing to do with calories burned during the day.

4. Do NOT eat after 6:30 to 7:00 p.m. at the latest.

I easily eat 500 - 1000 calories after 7 and I still manage to lose weight easily.

5. You MUST drink enough water for all of your bodily functions PLUS enough to process the fat you burn off. If you diet or work out enough to lose fat,

Drinking plenty of water is always a good idea. Nothing to disagree with there.

1. If you are 40+, it is important NEVER to eat more than 500 calories at any sitting. Your metabolism will burn faster (like someone in 20s) if you follow this. There was a study I read.

Urban legend

2. When you get up in the morning, eat something, ANYTHING, as soon as you are awake. A cracker, a peanut, ANYTHING. This will turn ON your metabolism for the day. The sooner you eat, the sooner it starts.

Totally false. Your metabolism runs even when you sleep. I still breathe and have a heart beat and brain function while sleeping. All that demands fuel.

3. Eat every 2 to 3 hours all day (have healthy snacks with you like pumpkin seeds or vegetable chips). Breakfast, mid-morning snack, lunch, afternoon snack, dinner. This keeps your metabolism turned on and running all day.

I think this method is generally good for controlling your appetite but it probably has little to nothing to do with calories burned during the day.

4. Do NOT eat after 6:30 to 7:00 p.m. at the latest.

I easily eat 500 - 1000 calories after 7 and I still manage to lose weight easily.

5. You MUST drink enough water for all of your bodily functions PLUS enough to process the fat you burn off. If you diet or work out enough to lose fat,

Drinking plenty of water is always a good idea. Nothing to disagree with there.

Another unidentified expert speaks AS IF there were absolute truths about metabolism that apply across ALL individuals. Report what works for you instead of puffing yourself up as some expert authorized to criticize what has worked for someone else! The field of diet and exercise is rampant with BS posing as authoritative information. I am more interested in what has worked for others in the hope that I will find something that will similarly work for ME. There simply are too many individual differences across human bodies that ti seems like the only smart way to find what might work for you, IMO. All you ego-driven "experts" need to get a life and work on finding what works for you and telling us about it. I don't want people driven away (as Doberdawn has probably been) with their results and methods because of egotistical self-appointed experts mocking or criticizing their reports.

Another unidentified expert speaks AS IF there were absolute truths about metabolism that apply across ALL individuals.

Have you read anything on Intermittent Fasting? This is proven to work in clinical studies and it pretty much blows every point mentioned out of the water. Is this the end all or perfect solution? No. This is just advice but as always....

Do whatever the @$*%@ you want to do.

http://youtu.be/03gjSG8md7s

I am more interested in what has worked for others in the hope that I will find something that will similarly work for ME.

31 pounds gone this year. *poof*

Eating after 7 doesn't affect my weight loss. Skipping breakfast doesn't affect my weight loss. Eating large meals over 1,000 calories does't affect my weight loss. I'll be 41 years old later this month. This isn't some newb advice for 20 somethings.

I think my food diary for today explains why the 'eat breakfast' certainly doesn't work for me.

Ate a balanced breakfast, if a little small. Ended up eating the whole pack of 'special k bars' for lunch.
If I'd left that breakfast until later, suspect I'd have done much better - though did manage to hit calorie targets*.

*Ok, I didn't include the small bits of cheese I had, which probably sent it way over. But they it probably also doesn't account for that I was working from 9:45am to 11:15pm doing a lot of heavy lifting and carrying.

Tomorrow morning I'm going to try a protein shake for the morning. As I've been doing a lot of heavy lifting, trying to get good consistent protein intake and hopefully this won't act as an appetiser so much.

It seems to me that Doberdawn is providing what is expected and asked for here . . . experience-based results and methods that work for her.

That would be fine if they were presented as such.
Instead it was presented with words such as NEVER and do NOT capitalised.
While this may work for her, it doesn't mean it works for everybody, so I don't think it's a good approach to be so forceful.
I don't think anyone's claiming to really know what's going on - which is why people are asking for resources which have the best chance of being good information.

And on your last point - I have tried the things she's suggesting, in some cases for extended periods; and found them not to work for me, as supported by peer-reviewed studies suggesting they don't work for others too.

Do whatever the @$*%@ you want to do.

I tried that - that's why I was up to 16 stone a few months ago .

Here are a couple of sample quotes:

Per Dr. Oz "Finally, don’t forget to drink your water! Not drinking enough will also slow down your metabolic rate as much as 3%!

"Eat just enough so you're not hungry — a 150-calorie snack midmorning and midafternoon between three meals (about 430 calories each) will keep your metabolism humming." Dan Benardot, PhD, RD, an associate professor of nutrition and kinesiology at Georgia State University, and Tammy Lakatos, RD.

I am far too busy to spend time finding more quotes from medical and scientific experts to humor you. But, I posted what I have learned via research, reading health articles, attending health seminars, watching The Doctors & Dr. Oz, and talking with my own doctor. They have worked for me and are continuing to work for me. I believe that IS the point of this forum.

So, I am down 46 pounds lost at an average of 2 pounds per week. Take it or Leave it.

I think people have to discover what works or them, if not eating after 7 pm woks for you keep doing it, if eating after keep doing it, if you stall with he weight loss change things up. Doctors, scientists say one thing then years later more research comes out which changes what they once believed. Opinions are like A**holes ~ everyone has one...lol

I generally don't count on weekends... but I've been doing this long enough that I know how to eat and not go overboard.

You say you gained 4 pounds... and like another poster pointed out unless you at an extra 14,000 calories on top of your maintenance calories, then you did not gain 4 pounds.

My suggestions for losing weight are to eat what you want with in reason(IE one serving of foods and not twenty), Exercise(cardio/weight training) and don't stress about the process.

All of that eat 6 meals a day, don't eat more then X calories at a meal, etc are ridiculous.. not everyone can follow that mindset and it doesn't work for everyone. You need to do what works for you.

To all who seem to really have some strange opinions and who are incredibly rude. I truly find the "This is untrue" to be rude. Stating an opinion doesn't suddenly make it a fact. Even I can see what rudeness is and it's coming out and ganging up on someone and saying that every suggestion they made is wrong/false or uneducated. Heck, the person who declared she's a couch potato probably couldn't keep up with her athletically. There's nothing wrong with how she posted it - she offered it as a suggestion and even had a smiley face. You're all nitpicking.

I can tell you that Dawn's research is right on target. I've known her for years (over 30) and can even substantiate that she's a very athletic person (wish we all did the amount of road biking, intensive hiking, Zumba and all the other stuff she does - she really does it - if she lists exercise - she's doing it). Her idea of hiking is hitting hills and going for 4-6 hours. I should know as she's dragged my sorry butt up some mountains which made me quiver. I barely kept up which is why I need to get my butt into shape.

She did attend a very scientific seminar about the research she mentioned. It's not a myth - it's true - the whole bit about your metabolic rate after the age of 40 - unfortunately is true. For those who have been lucky and seem to be loosing weight. Well, good for you but I can tell you this when I turned 40 - my weight went up 30-40 pounds in one year. I changed to this system (instead of three meals a day) and my weight is finally moving downward! Some people have major metabolic rate changes - those who don't - well - you're lucky but if you've stalled - this works.

I also know that she's been steadily loosing weight (along with a very large group of friends) ever since she started this. That is no made up fact. I wouldn't have listened if I didn't know that it seems to work. I've had discussions with her about studies and I can tell you that she's not the sort of person to do something for a flimsy study - she researches something and checks the validity AND verify whether it was done correctly (I wish my students would learn this type of accuracy). She knows what a valid study so you can lay that concern aside. As for the measurements, EVERYONE here knows that muscle weighs more than fat so if you're really exercising - you'll see the difference in your measurement - not your scale. People always freak when their weight goes up after building muscle so what she said is common sense and does help a person feel good. There's nothing better than seeing two inches go off ones waist even if you gained 5 pounds.

Either way - just declaring it a myth doesn't make it so. It's like people who claim gluten free diets are a fad - well if it's a fad - than I'm downright grateful or I'd be in big trouble considering how allergic I am. I suggest you do some research BEFORE you just make declarations about what you think is whimsical. Also, if you noticed she was offering advice - not declaring that you had to follow everything she said. Honestly, if you guys don't learn how to be nice - the people who are loosing weight won't bother helping you anymore. It's just mean spirited to say something without looking into it. I've also read studies about the Raspberries Ketones and yes - for some it does work! There is definitely scientific research out there proving that. If it didn't work for you - well that's something I can't change. I don't go around telling people who take green coffee tablets they are idiots. That's not right and it's judgmental.

As for eating after 7 pm, there are some valid reasons why it's not necessarily the best of idea. Here's one link that talks about it. It's not all related to just weight gain - part of it involves your digestive system. I don't know if you know what GERD is but it involves the acids in your stomach. I know that I usually have a VERY light snack (so - yes - I break this rule slightly) but if I were to have a heavy meal - the acid attack would probably kill me. In fact, I've done this and have found myself in massive pain. It's a common issue with heavier people. I take special antacids and even then - sometimes I get an attack. Not eating a massive meal seems to avoid that problem. There are some other issues involving human hormones that are impacted - so basically - it's up to you to decide if it matters to you. Yes, the studies are new but that doesn't make them invalid.

http://life.dailyburn.com/diet-and-nutrition/the-real-reasons-you-shouldnt-eat-after-7pm-if-you-want-to-lose-weight/

Honestly, you guys need to learn that sometimes there is valid research out there that might contradict what you know (if you were supportive and nice - this comment doesn't include you). Just because it's new doesn't mean it doesn't work. You sound like the doctors of the past who said "Allergies aren't real or told women it's all in your head dear. You're covered in rashes but it's not an allergy." Now, allergies are a HUGE industry and VERY real.

Next time, offer suggestions if you feel your advice is better - don't go into a post and tear someone apart simply because you feel you should. That's what is rude. Frankly, I don't blame her for not coming back for that. That's what causes people to not return to a post. In other words, learn to be polite in society - that includes blogs. Offer advice to the person who posted the question instead of tearing someone apart. I would have started with "Well, that's nice and I'm glad that works for you but I've been doing this and it seems...." As you can see, that's being civil.

Breakfast and Metabolism - Web Sources - Interesting information that seems to indicate a connection between successfully maintaining weight loss through the eating of breakfast.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/lose-weight-eat-breakfast

"Eating early in the day keeps us from "starvation eating" later on. But it also jump-starts your metabolism, says Elisabetta Politi, RD, MPH, nutrition manager for the Duke Diet & Fitness Center at Duke University Medical School. "When you don't eat breakfast, you're actually fasting for 15 to 20 hours, so you're not producing the enzymes needed to metabolize fat to lose weight."

http://www.atlantamdweightloss.com/blog/your-metabolism-and-weight-loss/

"Some studies have indicated that the number of meals you consume can also influence your metabolism. Rather than eating two or three large meals each day, more frequent, smaller meals were shown to result in a higher metabolic rate, lower overall calorie consumption and a resultant reduction in body fat."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,368462,00.html

"A new study found that women who eat half of their daily calories first thing in the morning lose more weight in the long term than those who start the day with a small breakfast.
And they are also less likely to pile the pounds back on."
Those on the big breakfast diet lost more than 21 percent of their body weight, compared with just 4.5 percent for the low-carb group.

http://www.bidmc.org/YourHealth/TherapeuticCenters/WeightManagement.aspx?ChunkID=156995

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15699226

(Edit, you've posted again since I wrote this, but not had chance to properly check out the links.)

Monica; did you read what I wrote?
>>in relation to why Breakfast generally isn't nearly as important as it's made out to be<<
Not that it's not important.

Also, correlation and causation.
Lets say for a second that it had been 'accepted wisdom' that if you poked your hand with a pointy stick it'd help you lose weight.
Sure, there weren't any specific studies on it, but all sorts of people with letters before their name would suggest it along with other things like "eat less, exercise more".
Now we could quite reasonable see something like "We also know from data collected by the National Weight Control Registry (NWCR) that over 90% of successful dieters usually poke themselves with a pointy stick."
Does that mean doing it would be a good idea? No.


Here's a quote from another of the references, this time a scientific study:

Reduced breakfast energy intake is associated with lower total daily intake. The influence of the ratio of breakfast to overall energy intake largely depends on the post-breakfast rather than breakfast intake pattern. Therefore, overweight and obese subjects should consider the reduction of breakfast calories as a simple option to improve their daily energy balance.

Um, where is your evidence that a big breakfast is totally unnecessary?

Sorry, I may have missed where I said that, but I'm pretty sure I haven't at all.

I have said that it doesn't help weight loss for me. The evidence is on the scales.
The article I linked to doesn't specifically claim that either.
It tries to take a balanced view, but still does require some consideration of the background.

I suggest you read the post entirely BEFORE you post it if you're trying to make a point.


As for eating late; I have often gone to bed full and have never suffered heartburn or nausea (well, maybe the latter, but usually due to the alcohol before the kebab.)
I would like to see this 'valid' research regarding HGH as an often quite late eater.
The GERD stuff I'm sure is relevant for many - but certainly not for me so far, so not something I'll worry about.

1. You need to count calories and keep your food and activity diaries. That's the only way to REALLY know what you're doing.
2. You need to take your key measurements (chest, waist, hips, thighs, neck, etc.). IF you are dieting and working out, you may lose fat and gain muscle, which weighs more. You will know you're still making progress by the declining inches.
3. You gained how much in what period of time? Weight fluctuates all the time, even within the same day depending on what you're taking in. It is not unusual for me to weigh 5 pounds heavier at night than I do during the morning.
4. If you are eating too little, you will store/gain weight because your body goes into starvation mode. So, go back to #1. You need to know what your daily goals are and track what you're doing.
Good luck!

I wouldn't post these as facts, but rather what works for you

I was asked to come back to the forum to help but I won't be returning. I have many insights. I've tried many things. I've read many articles and attended many health seminars. But, I have better things to do than to argue with petty folks. THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A SUPPORT FORUM. GET IT???? Sheesh! NOT ONE OF YOU (who were wasting time criticizing me) BOTHERED TO POST SUGGESTIONS TO HELP THE PEOPLE WHO STARTED THIS POST AND WHO ASKED FOR HELP.

WHY DIDN'T YOU? :huh:

Isn't that supposed to be the point? Instead you want to nitpick incredibly STUPID things like this and as a result you DRIVE AWAY people who would otherwise want to help. IS THAT REALLY THE GOAL HERE? Not to support each other, but to drive off people you perceive as what??? The competition in your sandbox? I don't get it. *shakes head* But, I can tell you that any newbie reading this post topic and the shark feeding frenzy that took place would never, EVER want to post a suggestion on here. They'd be terrified to do so unless they had fifteen research treatises at hand... but heck, even then, they might get a "you read that source? lawl" rude comment. Really guys... think about how you acted. Anyway... to address this last bit of silly nitpicking before I leave again for good...

1. If you are not keeping a log of everything you eat and do, you may think you know what you're eating and doing. You may have a guesstimate in mind of your net calories and you may think you have remembered it all and calculated it in your head right. But, stuff will slip by, quantities will not be precise, and you will not truly know what you are doing every day, week after week, unless of course you are the truly odd exception with an eidetic memory like the character Spencer Reed on Criminal Minds. That is a fact. *shrugs*

2. You do need to track your progress with both measurements and the scale, not just the scale. Okay, I abbreviated by saying that muscle weighs more than fat... that is a colloquial way that folks talk about it. Here's the boring and drawn out science... enjoy it because this is the LAST helpful post I intend to bother posting....
If you take a POUND of feathers and a POUND of bricks, do they weigh the same? Yes, duh, they are both 1 pound. But, it takes a lot fewer bricks to make a pound than it does feathers, so they'll take up a heck of a lot less space. Same for muscle and fat. Muscle is a much more dense tissue. So, a pound of muscle will be taking up far less space than a pound of fat on your body... it will be tighter and sleeker. As you get more fit, you may hit points where the scale doesn't move much because you converting from free flowing fatty blobs to leaner, smaller muscle mass on your frame. If you take your inches, you may see a movement in inches lost even though the scale maintains a steady weight. I've lost as much as 1 to 1.5 inches during weeks the scale hadn't moved and I checked my measurements. So, I knew I was still making progress... but I digress and temporarily forgot that y'all have no respect for personal anecdotes & experiences for some reason... Back to science, folks will say there will be minimal changes in the amount of muscle mass during a week, month, (e.g., unless intentionally exercising to build muscle, a woman will only build like 8 to 12 pounds of muscle a year or some such average statistic) - well, that depends on how much you're working out while dieting... If you're taking in protein and you're lifting weights, that number could be notably higher. BUT, here are a couple of other tricky bits of science you should know about muscle and why it is "heavier" or can "fool the scale". MUSCLE hoards glycogen and can hold up to 70% (or is it 75%?) water (especially if you are exercising and causing microtears in them where the water can really build up).... so it is not only a dense tissue, but it can be a very heavy tissue with great weight fluctuations due to storing glycogen and water. That is why weight can vary so much when working out, it is the water weight and glycogen weight in muscles. Now, you can run along and look this up on the internet or wherever you choose. I'm not wasting my time any more on here than I already have to try and look up citations for you. Here's a generic cite, but I'm sure that this woman with an MSc and ATCP is also some imbecile who dates Dr. Oz and is on the pay-off from some commercial entity and therefor whose opinion cannot be respected according to the great authorities of this forum http://truestarhealth.com/members/cm_archives11ML3P1A23.html

I won't be searching out other authorities for you because have NOTHING to prove to you and couldn't give a rat's petunia less whether you believe me or not. Sorry for the blow to your egos. But, that REALLY is a fact. I don't care. This is not a positive place and it is not rewarding to post here, so why would I come back here? I left. I only came back because I was asked to... but I am responding to that request with a sorry, but no. Anyone who wants to ask me for tips can message me. But, I will not be back here to read any more of the insulting tripe that I have already had my fill of... (quick, hurry up and criticize my grammar too, I ended that sentence with a preposition, POUNCE!)

3. Well, gee... are you HONESTLY saying that weight doesn't fluctuate and that is NOT a fact? REALLY? With a straight face? :laugh: You've got to be kidding me... :noway: this post hardly merits a response it is so ridiculous. It is a scientific fact... you drink water, you eat food, your cells absorb water etc., you work out, you sweat, you urinate, you defecate, your weight fluctuates every day. *shakes head* Let me guess... it is only my opinion unless I can give you citations of authority. This is like demanding an authority to prove the sun rises in the east because the fact that we see it every day cannot be accepted as fact. Ridiculous... but, here, you want one? How about Diet and Fitness Expert, Dr. Melina Jampolis, Physician Nutrition Specialist, from CNN Health who talks about the myriad causes of fluctuation. http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/expert.q.a/10/08/water.weight.fluctuates.jampolis/index.html
Or maybe you're happier with a quote from ConsumerReports.org which states "A person’s weight can fluctuate by several pounds a day depending on what they’ve eaten or had to drink, how active they are, how many times they’ve gone to the bathroom, and how much salt they’ve ingested." http://news.consumerreports.org/health/2009/08/weight-fluctuations-weight-gain-treatments-for-obesity-diet-and-exercise-healthy-living.html Must I go on? Do you really need more? Yes, that's your problem. I really do have better ways to spend my time.

4. Can eating too few calories cause you problems with weight loss and put you into starvation mode? Or is this just my opinion also? *snort* I suppose my saying, this really is a fact will also not be good enough for you. *shakes my head* Would you be happier if Kimberly Lummus, MS, RD, Texas Dietetic Association media representative and public relations coordinator at the Austin Dietetic Association in Austin, Texas told you "It would make sense to stop eating [when you are trying to lose weight], but it actually works in the opposite way," But if your calorie intake dips too low, says Lummus, your body could go into starvation mode. "Your body will start to store fat because it thinks it is not going to get anything," says Lummus. "You will be at a point where your body is kind of at a standstill." http://m.everydayhealth.com/weight/fewer-calories-stalls-metabolism

So, all four of these are actually.... *GASP* facts... at least per all the research that I've read. They are not merely my opinion or suggestion. I do actually have research that backs them up, but I am not motivated enough to find it and cite it for rude, demanding board trolls. Now, aren't you so glad you've convinced someone (who actually has a LOT of knowledge to share) to RUN SCREAMING from this forum rather than share their knowledge? Aren't you all so proud of yourselves?

BTW, ... BEFORE YOU HIT REPLY to criticize me yet again>>>>> have you stopped yet to TRY AND HELP Katielouiseoz or Theforce31 with POSITIVE suggestions to address their problems? Have YOU? If not... before you waste more time trying to annoy me (I won't be here to see it anyway)... why don't you instead spend some time trying to come up with suggestions to help them... since you apparently think none of mine will help.

Have a nice life and good luck with your weight loss goals. Good bye.