How many pounds of muscle could I really put on?

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Replies

  • average women can gain a maximum of 1/2 lb of muscle every 2 weeks
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,989 Member
    average women can gain a maximum of 1/2 lb of muscle every 2 weeks
    In deficit?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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  • abbylg1983
    abbylg1983 Posts: 177 Member
    average women can gain a maximum of 1/2 lb of muscle every 2 weeks
    In deficit?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    It's probably worth mentioning that nowhere in the original post was a calorie deficit mentioned. My question was under the most ideal conditions, how much muscle weight can the average woman expect to gain?
  • waldo56
    waldo56 Posts: 1,861 Member
    And you're telling me you put on 20-25lbs of muscle so far? Show me where it is cause I don't see it.

    No. Haven't been at it a year.

    But I've put on your 7-10 lbs in 3 months. And yes it is lean weight, if anything I've lost a little fat, ab definition is getting sharper.

    http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww269/Waldo56/Self/Collage731.jpg

    I don't expect to sustain this rate, but surely I'm not going to spend the next 9 months gaining nothing. That projection of 20 or so pounds for beginner males seems very reasonable and attainable.
    The article even states that the Natural bodybuilders "muscle potential" is much more conservative than McDonald's. Or did you miss that in the article?
    Don't correlate POTENTIAL with ACTUAL. Training, nutrition, discipline all play factors. The average male doesn't train as hard or dedicated as the competitive natural bodybuilder, so the numbers that were mentioned (7-10lbs) are well within reach compared to McDonald's projection. Impossible? No. Personally for all the years I've competed and still intermingling with the "meatheads" in the gym, I have yet to see a "natural" put on 20-25lbs of pure muscle in their first year of training. Skeptic yes.

    The article wasn't talking about steriod fueled potential at all. Reading comprehension failure FTW!!! He was comparing a frame size model to his and another's general models, commenting that the frame size model for maximum muscle potiential (not maximum growth rate, there is a difference) was conservative compared to his and the other model, but this is highly frame size dependant. With a larger frame the models all line up.'

    The article clearly states that the models are for those under optimal (non-steriod) conditions, and that they are models of the peak gain rate and maximum mass are for average males. And that the values should be halved for females. I took the OP's question to be precisely what this article addresses. How much can you gain if you do everything right (without enhancement).

    Would these be YOUR clients failing to put on mass at this rate? LOL.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,989 Member
    average women can gain a maximum of 1/2 lb of muscle every 2 weeks
    In deficit?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    It's probably worth mentioning that nowhere in the original post was a calorie deficit mentioned. My question was under the most ideal conditions, how much muscle weight can the average woman expect to gain?
    With the Figure and Bikini (last 4 years) competitors I've worked with for the past 15 years, the average would be about 5-7lbs a year. These are females that consistent in the gym, are very serious (usually very clean eaters) about nutrition, and compete 2-3 times a year, so they "cut" up and try to stay above a certain percentage of body fat to stay within the qualifications of competition.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • To put on muscle you need caloric surplus in most cases, that means gaining a little fat, if you want to keep the fat minimal then probably about a 1lb of pure muscle every week n a half is most accurate, hope this helps!

    Jesse Short
    ISSA Certified Personal Trainer
  • bazfitness
    bazfitness Posts: 275 Member
    wow, only 7-10 pounds? That's really not very much.

    I'd take it :tongue: When I eventually (hopefully not too long) get on to a calorie surplus. I don't do weights as such as I workout at home, but doing intense enough training at home. Kettlebells, different types of press ups, sit-ups, squats, etc etc. Still I imagine my muscle gain would be even less when I'm not doing dedicated weight training as such.
  • phillycheesteak
    phillycheesteak Posts: 9 Member
    I'm surprised how low the numbers others are posting are. In Mark Rippetoe's book Starting Strength (basic barbell training), Rippetoe advises his readers how to get stronger. Since strength requires additional muscle mass, the result of using a barbell for strength training will be a gain in body weight due to larger muscles.

    He advises that following his exercise program and nutrition recommendations for maximum muscle growth will result in an average person who's never lifted weights for strength before will gain 5-10 lb in the first week (water weight) and about a pound a week for up to 6 months. Following that, additional weight will likely be more difficult to gain -- nutrition must be monitored more and workouts become more complex.

    I followed this guidance for about 6 months and had approximately the same results. I've lifted weights before, but never with a focus on the barbell. I went from 170 lb to 195 lb and increased my squat weight from 3 sets of 5 reps at 135 lb to 235 lb.

    Rippetoe's basic program requires about 90 minutes at the gym 3 times a week, with alternating workouts: squats, deadlifts, and bench press one workout and squats, shoulder press, and power cleans the next workout. He also advises a calorie surplus and downplays the importance of aerobic exercise. The result is that additional body fat will likely be gained with muscle. I wouldn't expect to lose fat, but with some effort, you may maintain your body fat % as you gain weight. This is the opposite of a 6-pack for the beach workout and he doesn't deny that.

    Is something like that for you? The best way to decide is to try it, I think.
  • iWaffle
    iWaffle Posts: 2,208 Member
    I'm surprised how low the numbers others are posting are. In Mark Rippetoe's book Starting Strength (basic barbell training), Rippetoe advises his readers how to get stronger. Since strength requires additional muscle mass, the result of using a barbell for strength training will be a gain in body weight due to larger muscles.

    Not totally true. A certain measure of strength is just improvement in your neurological pathways that control the muscles. You can gain strength and not gain muscle mass.
    High-resistance strength training (HRST) is one of the most widely practiced forms of physical activity, which is used to enhance athletic performance, augment musculo-skeletal health and alter body aesthetics. Chronic exposure to this type of activity produces marked increases in muscular strength, which are attributed to a range of neurological and morphological adaptations.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17241104
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,989 Member
    And you're telling me you put on 20-25lbs of muscle so far? Show me where it is cause I don't see it.

    No. Haven't been at it a year.

    But I've put on your 7-10 lbs in 3 months. And yes it is lean weight, if anything I've lost a little fat, ab definition is getting sharper.

    http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww269/Waldo56/Self/Collage731.jpg

    I don't expect to sustain this rate, but surely I'm not going to spend the next 9 months gaining nothing. That projection of 20 or so pounds for beginner males seems very reasonable and attainable.
    So how did you measure the actual muscle gain? Just subtracting your body fat percentage and getting a lean weight isn't the indication that "pure muscle" was attained. I wouldn't be surprised that more than half of that was glycogen and water storage. Even bone density increases when you lift.
    The article even states that the Natural bodybuilders "muscle potential" is much more conservative than McDonald's. Or did you miss that in the article?
    Don't correlate POTENTIAL with ACTUAL. Training, nutrition, discipline all play factors. The average male doesn't train as hard or dedicated as the competitive natural bodybuilder, so the numbers that were mentioned (7-10lbs) are well within reach compared to McDonald's projection. Impossible? No. Personally for all the years I've competed and still intermingling with the "meatheads" in the gym, I have yet to see a "natural" put on 20-25lbs of pure muscle in their first year of training. Skeptic yes.

    The article wasn't talking about steriod fueled potential at all. Reading comprehension failure FTW!!! He was comparing a frame size model to his and another's general models, commenting that the frame size model for maximum muscle potiential (not maximum growth rate, there is a difference) was conservative compared to his and the other model, but this is highly frame size dependant. With a larger frame the models all line up.
    I referred to the NATURAL gaining of muscle when quoting the more "conservative" projections from the natural bodybuilder. Or is the Natural bodybuilders research (someone who actually LIVES the lifestyle) worthless? Reread it again. The reason I made the reference to JUICED bodybuilders is because if it's tough for them to put on 20-25lbs, how in the hell will a natural new lifter do the same?
    The article clearly states that the models are for those under optimal (non-steriod) conditions, and that they are models of the peak gain rate and maximum mass are for average males. And that the values should be halved for females. I took the OP's question to be precisely what this article addresses. How much can you gain if you do everything right (without enhancement).

    Would these be YOUR clients failing to put on mass at this rate? LOL.
    Don't try to make a strawman argument, stick to the topic. While I respect the authors of the article and agree spot on with a lot of their methods, I am skeptical of how they arrive to the conclusion that a male new to lifting could put on that much "pure" muscle without any experience in training, knowing how to "contract" muscles correctly, switching to a nutritional program that they've never done before, etc.
    POTENTIAL is probable. Anyone in the US has the potential to be the President of the US. Even if they did everything right, what is the probability? My point is that for ALL the years that I've done this and personally competed myself, and having been part of the "muscle" community for 30 years now, I have yet to witness a natural new lifter gain 20-25lbs of pure muscle in a year's time. I'm more than sure there are other serious lifters on this site who have witnessed it either.
    Now 7-10lbs of pure muscle, sure I've seen that lots of times.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • abbylg1983
    abbylg1983 Posts: 177 Member
    average women can gain a maximum of 1/2 lb of muscle every 2 weeks
    In deficit?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    It's probably worth mentioning that nowhere in the original post was a calorie deficit mentioned. My question was under the most ideal conditions, how much muscle weight can the average woman expect to gain?
    With the Figure and Bikini (last 4 years) competitors I've worked with for the past 15 years, the average would be about 5-7lbs a year. These are females that consistent in the gym, are very serious (usually very clean eaters) about nutrition, and compete 2-3 times a year, so they "cut" up and try to stay above a certain percentage of body fat to stay within the qualifications of competition.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know.

    Since you have been checking out this thread pretty consistently I have another question for you specifically. The 5-7 pounds under optimum conditions seems pretty legit, but what about this girl?- http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero- her story has been floating around myfitnesspal and other fitness boards. By my calculations, she put on about 10-15 pounds of muscle inside of a year. Granted, she ate at a serious surplus, but is this girl just an incredible exception, or is it feasible with that many calories and that much dedication?
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,989 Member
    average women can gain a maximum of 1/2 lb of muscle every 2 weeks
    In deficit?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    It's probably worth mentioning that nowhere in the original post was a calorie deficit mentioned. My question was under the most ideal conditions, how much muscle weight can the average woman expect to gain?
    With the Figure and Bikini (last 4 years) competitors I've worked with for the past 15 years, the average would be about 5-7lbs a year. These are females that consistent in the gym, are very serious (usually very clean eaters) about nutrition, and compete 2-3 times a year, so they "cut" up and try to stay above a certain percentage of body fat to stay within the qualifications of competition.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know.

    Since you have been checking out this thread pretty consistently I have another question for you specifically. The 5-7 pounds under optimum conditions seems pretty legit, but what about this girl?- http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero- her story has been floating around myfitnesspal and other fitness boards. By my calculations, she put on about 10-15 pounds of muscle inside of a year. Granted, she ate at a serious surplus, but is this girl just an incredible exception, or is it feasible with that many calories and that much dedication?
    I take a lot of what's said in the bodybuilding/lifting community with a little skepticism since practically everyone will exaggerate their successes. However what she did (if she did it since I don't see the actual 15lbs of muscle gain) had a lot to do with how she trained, how she ate (paleo) and support. Not impossible, but again based on the pictures I've seen, I don't see the amount of muscle claimed to be gained in her shoulders, arms or legs. I'd like to know what her measurements were before/after as that would give me a better indication.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • phillycheesteak
    phillycheesteak Posts: 9 Member
    Not totally true. A certain measure of strength is just improvement in your neurological pathways that control the muscles. You can gain strength and not gain muscle mass.
  • phillycheesteak
    phillycheesteak Posts: 9 Member
    I'm surprised how low the numbers others are posting are. In Mark Rippetoe's book Starting Strength (basic barbell training), Rippetoe advises his readers how to get stronger. Since strength requires additional muscle mass, the result of using a barbell for strength training will be a gain in body weight due to larger muscles.

    Not totally true. A certain measure of strength is just improvement in your neurological pathways that control the muscles. You can gain strength and not gain muscle mass.
    High-resistance strength training (HRST) is one of the most widely practiced forms of physical activity, which is used to enhance athletic performance, augment musculo-skeletal health and alter body aesthetics. Chronic exposure to this type of activity produces marked increases in muscular strength, which are attributed to a range of neurological and morphological adaptations.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17241104

    You're right. Nerves grow and make us stronger, but they aren't massive. Bones gain mass, as well. I didn't consider either of these when I was lifting heavy weights. But I'm certain that my muscles gained more mass than my bones or nerves. I think it's safe to assume that most of my strength gain and weight gain were due to increased muscle mass.
  • baptiste565
    baptiste565 Posts: 590 Member
    OK, I am an average size female and I do a little strength training, but nothing very consistent other than carrying my daughter around.

    Let's just pretend for a minute than I did weight lifting by the book- with optimum nutrition and recovery time and was very consistent with my workouts and progressed heavier each time. How much muscle weight could I honestly expect to gain per month?

    I read a lot where women complain that they are working out and gaining weight, and everyone is like, oh it's muscle, that's good, but it's like, 2 pounds in a week. That seems a bit much. I have heard 1-2 pounds a month if you're doing everything right which seems more reasonable but I am no expert.


    I know gaining muscle varies from person to person but is there some general average for women?
    The average male would LUCKY to put on 1lb a month even in surplus. A female in calorie deficit? They'd be lucky to put on 0.5lb in 6 months.
    It's practically improbable to gain muscle on calorie deficit. Not impossible, but genetics, experience (newbie), past activity (former athlete) and being obese/very overweight would have the be the category you'd have to be in to gain doing it. And even then it's not as much as everyone thinks.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    good info
  • phillycheesteak
    phillycheesteak Posts: 9 Member
    As a beginners, you could realistically put on 7-10 pounds in a year. After a year or so, you would taper off and be lucky to put on 3-5 in a year. That is the advice I have been given by several of my bodybuilding trainers.
    And this is for a MALE. Females much less unless "enhanced".


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    A male can put on upwards of 20-25 lbs in their first year, females about half that.
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html

    That lines up with my experience thus far as a first year gainer.
    Sorry but that much in actual muscle? Fat and muscle yes. What if that male is 40 years old? Age makes a total difference. Not saying it can't be done, but you're speaking of people who are calorie surplus and not deficit with a direct goal of muscle gain.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    Niner, on your profile it says that your inspiration is to prove that age really doesn't matter.
  • Determinednoob
    Determinednoob Posts: 2,001 Member
    The link below answers for a man, but yeah woman trying hard would be 7-12 year one and less each year after.

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html

    Lol I didn't see there was already a big argument involving this on here
  • gmoneycole
    gmoneycole Posts: 813 Member
    OK, I am an average size female and I do a little strength training, but nothing very consistent other than carrying my daughter around.

    Let's just pretend for a minute than I did weight lifting by the book- with optimum nutrition and recovery time and was very consistent with my workouts and progressed heavier each time. How much muscle weight could I honestly expect to gain per month?

    I read a lot where women complain that they are working out and gaining weight, and everyone is like, oh it's muscle, that's good, but it's like, 2 pounds in a week. That seems a bit much. I have heard 1-2 pounds a month if you're doing everything right which seems more reasonable but I am no expert.

    I know gaining muscle varies from person to person but is there some general average for women?

    Why pretend? Go ahead and really do it! Modify as you see fit. You can do it!
  • contingencyplan
    contingencyplan Posts: 3,639 Member
    You will see weight gain in the beginning but it is not actual muscle growth. It is water retention which your body goes through as part of the recovery process.
  • MoreBean13
    MoreBean13 Posts: 8,701 Member
    bump to follow.
  • I'm hoping people will read this and stop telling people (women specifically) that they gained 2-5lb of muscle doing Turbo Jam or 30DS on a calorie deficit in one week. :huh:

    ^^^this^^^
  • phillycheesteak
    phillycheesteak Posts: 9 Member
    I've heard swimming in reasonably chilly water (not necessarily hypothermia cold) triggers a response to retain body fat to maintain warmth. I don't know if I believe it or not, and I don't know where the calories go. When I was swimming 5 days a week for a few months in a row, I found that my body weight was static for awhile, even though my body composition seemed to be changing. Unfortunately, I wasn't counting calories in or out, at that point. I was also regularly getting less than 6 hours of sleep, and it's my understanding that sleep is important to muscle gain.
  • waldo56
    waldo56 Posts: 1,861 Member
    And you're telling me you put on 20-25lbs of muscle so far? Show me where it is cause I don't see it.

    No. Haven't been at it a year.

    But I've put on your 7-10 lbs in 3 months. And yes it is lean weight, if anything I've lost a little fat, ab definition is getting sharper.

    http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww269/Waldo56/Self/Collage731.jpg

    I don't expect to sustain this rate, but surely I'm not going to spend the next 9 months gaining nothing. That projection of 20 or so pounds for beginner males seems very reasonable and attainable.
    So how did you measure the actual muscle gain? Just subtracting your body fat percentage and getting a lean weight isn't the indication that "pure muscle" was attained. I wouldn't be surprised that more than half of that was glycogen and water storage. Even bone density increases when you lift.

    This is true, if you are new to strength training. But I am not new to strength training, the increased water and glycogen effect is long since gone. That effect occurs whether you are in a deficit or surplus. Actual muscle gain only occurs in a surplus. 3 months ago I finished losing weight, ended my deficit, and went into a surplus to gain. After months of slow-no size gains and slow strength gain (obviously because of a deficit), my muscles just exploded. My chest has gained 2" in the last 3 months and each thigh has gained 1".

    Just face it, beginners can gain a lot more muscle mass than you seem to think they can. Get all the conditions lined up right and 20 lbs is totally reasonable for a guy, this is supported by literature and plenty of anecdotal evidence. After the first year it tapers off dramatically, but most people will gain upwards of half their potential muscle growth from strength training in the first year if the conditions are right. And by conditions being right, it means they aren't doing stupid routines and they are eating right.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,989 Member
    I'm surprised how low the numbers others are posting are. In Mark Rippetoe's book Starting Strength (basic barbell training), Rippetoe advises his readers how to get stronger. Since strength requires additional muscle mass, the result of using a barbell for strength training will be a gain in body weight due to larger muscles.

    Not totally true. A certain measure of strength is just improvement in your neurological pathways that control the muscles. You can gain strength and not gain muscle mass.
    High-resistance strength training (HRST) is one of the most widely practiced forms of physical activity, which is used to enhance athletic performance, augment musculo-skeletal health and alter body aesthetics. Chronic exposure to this type of activity produces marked increases in muscular strength, which are attributed to a range of neurological and morphological adaptations.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17241104

    You're right. Nerves grow and make us stronger, but they aren't massive. Bones gain mass, as well. I didn't consider either of these when I was lifting heavy weights. But I'm certain that my muscles gained more mass than my bones or nerves. I think it's safe to assume that most of my strength gain and weight gain were due to increased muscle mass.
    It's not the "nerves" that the article was discussing, but neuromuscular adaptation. That's when other muscle fibers assist in increasing your strength as you increased poundages.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,989 Member
    As a beginners, you could realistically put on 7-10 pounds in a year. After a year or so, you would taper off and be lucky to put on 3-5 in a year. That is the advice I have been given by several of my bodybuilding trainers.
    And this is for a MALE. Females much less unless "enhanced".


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    A male can put on upwards of 20-25 lbs in their first year, females about half that.
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html

    That lines up with my experience thus far as a first year gainer.
    Sorry but that much in actual muscle? Fat and muscle yes. What if that male is 40 years old? Age makes a total difference. Not saying it can't be done, but you're speaking of people who are calorie surplus and not deficit with a direct goal of muscle gain.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    Niner, on your profile it says that your inspiration is to prove that age really doesn't matter.
    It doesn't matter to health and exercising and looking good. Age has a direct effect on muscle gain because the older you are, the less testosterone you have in comparison to when you're younger. You can build muscle at 40, but if you did it at 18 with the same workout and correct macro/micro nutrients, there would be a significant difference in actual muscle gained.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    So, if I'm following this thread, who do I find more credible? Ninerbuff with 28 years of experience both competing and training and has answered factually and respectfully or Waldo56 who has been at it less than a year and is making unussualy large claims of muscle growth based on one article. And is doing so with some tone of arrogance and disrespect, taking occiasional veiled shots at Niner and his training experience. To me the answer is clear.

    Maybe Waldo need to go back to school to learn a liltte. Just sayin'.......
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,989 Member
    This is true, if you are new to strength training. But I am not new to strength training, the increased water and glycogen effect is long since gone. That effect occurs whether you are in a deficit or surplus. Actual muscle gain only occurs in a surplus. 3 months ago I finished losing weight, ended my deficit, and went into a surplus to gain. After months of slow-no size gains and slow strength gain (obviously because of a deficit), my muscles just exploded. My chest has gained 2" in the last 3 months and each thigh has gained 1".
    The effect continues as long as you're progressing. Larger muscles hold more water and glycogen. Not to mention that in surplus, it's improbable that size gain is strictly from muscle. There is no literature to support that you only gain muscle with NO FAT at all along with it.
    Just face it, beginners can gain a lot more muscle mass than you seem to think they can. Get all the conditions lined up right and 20 lbs is totally reasonable for a guy, this is supported by literature and plenty of anecdotal evidence. After the first year it tapers off dramatically, but most people will gain upwards of half their potential muscle growth from strength training in the first year if the conditions are right. And by conditions being right, it means they aren't doing stupid routines and they are eating right.
    20lbs of weight yes. Of "pure" muscle, meh. If you knowledge of muscle hypertrophy at all, genetics will dictate how one gains even if the conditions were ideal. You can take 2 males of equal height, weight, age, new to lifting and put them both on the same exact program and one may gain 15lbs of muscle in a year and the other 5lbs. There are people who are known as "hardgainers" (I was one) who do all the right things and still struggle to put on lean muscle in comparison with someone who may have a disposition to do it.
    References below speak of muscle hypertrophy and the methods used to achieve it, yet none will state how much one actually gains since there are so many variables.

    Enoka, R.M. (1995). Morphological features and activation patterns of motor units. Journal of Clinical Neurophysiology, 12(6), 538-559.
    Fry, A.C. (2004). The role of resistance exercise intensity on muscle fibre adaptations. Sports Medicine, 34(10), 663-679.
    Gabriel, D.A., Kamen, G. and Frost, G. (2000). Neural adaptations to resistive exercise: Mechanisms and recommendations for training practices. Sports Medicine, 36(2), 131-149.
    Hansen, S., Kvorning, T., Kjaer, M., and Sjogaard, G. (2001). The effect of short-term strength training on human skeletal muscle: the importance of physiologically elevated hormone levels. Scandinavian Journal of Medicine & Science in Sports, 11(6), 347-354.
    Paul, A.C. and Rosenthal, N. (2002). Different modes of hypertrophy in skeletal muscle fibers. The Journal of Cell Biology, 156(4), 751-760.
    Proske, U. and Allen, T.J. (2005). Damage to skeletal muscle from eccentric exercise. Sport Science Reviews, 33(2), 98-104.
    Schoenfeld, B.J. (2010). The mechanisms of muscle hypertrophy and their application to resistance training. Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 24(10), 2857-2872.
    Schoenfeld, B. (2011). The use of specialized training techniques to maximize muscle hypertrophy. Strength and Conditioning Journal, 33(4), 60-65.
    Willardson, J.M. (2006). A brief review: Factors affecting the length of the rest interval between resistance exercise sets. Journal of Strength Conditioning Research, 20(4), 978-984.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    Just tagging to follow - Niner is dishing out some good info here.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    This is true, if you are new to strength training. But I am not new to strength training, the increased water and glycogen effect is long since gone. That effect occurs whether you are in a deficit or surplus. Actual muscle gain only occurs in a surplus. 3 months ago I finished losing weight, ended my deficit, and went into a surplus to gain. After months of slow-no size gains and slow strength gain (obviously because of a deficit), my muscles just exploded. My chest has gained 2" in the last 3 months and each thigh has gained 1".
    The effect continues as long as you're progressing. Larger muscles hold more water and glycogen. Not to mention that in surplus, it's improbable that size gain is strictly from muscle. There is no literature to support that you only gain muscle with NO FAT at all along with it.
    Just face it, beginners can gain a lot more muscle mass than you seem to think they can. Get all the conditions lined up right and 20 lbs is totally reasonable for a guy, this is supported by literature and plenty of anecdotal evidence. After the first year it tapers off dramatically, but most people will gain upwards of half their potential muscle growth from strength training in the first year if the conditions are right. And by conditions being right, it means they aren't doing stupid routines and they are eating right.
    20lbs of weight yes. Of "pure" muscle, meh. If you knowledge of muscle hypertrophy at all, genetics will dictate how one gains even if the conditions were ideal. You can take 2 males of equal height, weight, age, new to lifting and put them both on the same exact program and one may gain 15lbs of muscle in a year and the other 5lbs. There are people who are known as "hardgainers" (I was one) who do all the right things and still struggle to put on lean muscle in comparison with someone who may have a disposition to do it.
    References below speak of muscle hypertrophy and the methods used to achieve it, yet none will state how much one actually gains since there are so many variables.

    Enoka, R.M. (1995). Morphological features and activation patterns of motor units. Journal of Clinical Neurophysiology, 12(6), 538-559.
    Fry, A.C. (2004). The role of resistance exercise intensity on muscle fibre adaptations. Sports Medicine, 34(10), 663-679.
    Gabriel, D.A., Kamen, G. and Frost, G. (2000). Neural adaptations to resistive exercise: Mechanisms and recommendations for training practices. Sports Medicine, 36(2), 131-149.
    Hansen, S., Kvorning, T., Kjaer, M., and Sjogaard, G. (2001). The effect of short-term strength training on human skeletal muscle: the importance of physiologically elevated hormone levels. Scandinavian Journal of Medicine & Science in Sports, 11(6), 347-354.
    Paul, A.C. and Rosenthal, N. (2002). Different modes of hypertrophy in skeletal muscle fibers. The Journal of Cell Biology, 156(4), 751-760.
    Proske, U. and Allen, T.J. (2005). Damage to skeletal muscle from eccentric exercise. Sport Science Reviews, 33(2), 98-104.
    Schoenfeld, B.J. (2010). The mechanisms of muscle hypertrophy and their application to resistance training. Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 24(10), 2857-2872.
    Schoenfeld, B. (2011). The use of specialized training techniques to maximize muscle hypertrophy. Strength and Conditioning Journal, 33(4), 60-65.
    Willardson, J.M. (2006). A brief review: Factors affecting the length of the rest interval between resistance exercise sets. Journal of Strength Conditioning Research, 20(4), 978-984.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    Like I was saying......
  • Lift_hard_eat_big
    Lift_hard_eat_big Posts: 2,278 Member
    Probably half a pound a month