Artificial limbs in the Olympics
CassiusKnox
Posts: 305 Member
in Chit-Chat
You all might have seen the South African track athlete Oscar Pistorius running on artificial limbs at the Olympic Games.
AWESOME achievement... not taking ANYTHING away from him for his courage, determination and tenacity. BUT....
Do you think this should be allowed? How do we know the artificial legs do not give him an unfair mechanical advantage? Where does it end? May the best part man / part machine win?
AWESOME achievement... not taking ANYTHING away from him for his courage, determination and tenacity. BUT....
Do you think this should be allowed? How do we know the artificial legs do not give him an unfair mechanical advantage? Where does it end? May the best part man / part machine win?
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Replies
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Actually, I'd stay that his artificial limbs give him a built in DISadvantage and I fully support his presence in the Olympics. Why?
1. He has to work significantly harder than his peers to get his leg muscles to a point where he can run, specialized prosthetics or not. Thigh muscles are built to move knees and legs.
2. I'm not sure if it played in other countries, but one of the channels I watch frequently actually proves that with each step he takes, he expends MORE energy because he has to not only make the forward running movement on his legs, but he also has to twist his legs in and out for every step.
3. He also has a significant disadvantage off the starting block because his strides are shorter when he gets up off the ground.
4. And another topic to bring up -- his prosthetics more than likely leave his body with pressure sores. This is something that the vast majority of other olympians do not have to deal with because the olympians walk on feet, not on skin of the knee/femur. I can't even begin to fathom how long it has taken for him to be able to run quickly on skin that is not built to have that kind of friction on it. The skin on the bottoms of feet is completely different from the skin on knees and thighs.
5. And regardless of anything else, he is likely to be the most discussed person in the games, purely because his body is different from the average olympian. The whole slippery slope theory regarding where the machine ends is bunk - it is the man, Oscar Pistorius, who is powering those legs. They do not move if a human body is not strapped into them. That is like saying that only men deserve to enter the olympics because men have more natural muscle mass in their bodies than women do. No. Mr. Pistorius has every right to compete and succeed or fail, along with the rest of his country.0 -
Im just curious what those things look like with long pants0
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Actually, I'd stay that his artificial limbs give him a built in DISadvantage and I fully support his presence in the Olympics.
The whole slippery slope theory regarding where the machine ends is bunk - it is the man, Oscar Pistorius, who is powering those legs. They do not move if a human body is not strapped into them.
Any junior school graduate knows that machines can provide a mechanical advantage to people.... witness levers and pulleys for example. Simple devices can mechanically increase a persons strength or speed many, many times over.
It is ridiculous to imply that because a man is powering the machine it is 'fair'.0 -
Do you think this should be allowed? How do we know the artificial legs do not give him an unfair mechanical advantage? Where does it end? May the best part man / part machine win?
In this instance - we know he doesn't have an unfair advantage because he had to undergo rigorous testing before he was allowed to be included in the SA team.
Google it.0 -
Actually, I'd stay that his artificial limbs give him a built in DISadvantage and I fully support his presence in the Olympics.
The whole slippery slope theory regarding where the machine ends is bunk - it is the man, Oscar Pistorius, who is powering those legs. They do not move if a human body is not strapped into them.
Any junior school graduate knows that machines can provide a mechanical advantage to people.... witness levers and pulleys for example. Simple devices can mechanically increase a persons strength or speed many, many times over.
It is ridiculous to imply that because a man is powering the machine it is 'fair'.
http://www.livescience.com/22249-oscar-pistorius-prosthetics-work.html A simple google search pulls up countless articles about this very topic. Yes, there is a spring-type action involved in his prosthetic. However, he also is missing countless muscles, tendons and joints that would be doing the EXACT same thing that you and other able bodied individuals take for granted. He uses more core muscles, arm muscles, and thigh muscles than the average athlete. And THAT is why I support him.
And let me just state that, while your reasoning is fair, your logic isn't. I'm talking about what Mr. Pistorius has to do physically in order for him to be able to move around. The training, the pain, the anatomical differences that he has to work harder to overcome, the additional training he requires, and the psychological impact. You choose to gloss over that because you feel he has an advantage over someone who has all the tendons, muscles, bones, skin, and nervous system that he does not have.
It is truly ridiculous to imply that the machine takes away from all the things *HE* has overcome in order to be able to compete on the same level as an able-bodied olympian.0 -
Scenario:
So.... next olympic games 50 swimmers show up with prosthetic arms... all with different technology... all with different 'paddles'.
Are you suggesting that the olympic committee tests all of those devices, tests the athletes 'natural' abilities... determines if it is all 'fair'.... (compared to what?... maybe the 'average' able bodied athlete?)... and then decide if they can compete????
Come on!!!!! This should NEVER have been allowed to happen.0 -
Yeah, I bet Michael Phelps and James Magnussen have already booked their surgery dates to get their own limbs surgically removed so they can gain such an "advantage"!
Oh, I know - why don't you get a limb removed and then you too can enjoy being "part man/part machine".0 -
The Olympic committee DOES test all of these things. They do test on practically every athlete to make sure the games are fair. Those leg prosthetics do exactly what our muscles do. And as far as giving him an advantage, he didn't even place, so no, no apparent advantage there.0
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Yeah, I bet Michael Phelps and James Magnussen have already booked their surgery dates to get their own limbs surgically removed so they can gain such an "advantage"!
Oh, I know - why don't you get a limb removed and then you too can enjoy being "part man/part machine".
Ha!!! NO ONE is suggesting people are going to cut their arms off to 'enjoy' being part man / part machine. Sheeesh!0 -
Pistorius has gotten about everything he can out of his J-shaped Cheetahs blades, but it still doesn't give him the push to start a race like runners with calf muscles or the ability to make a turn like runners who have ankles.
At first glance, you'd think he should be some sort of superman, bounding past other runners on his springs. The reality is, the blades help level the playing field but don't give him any special advantage. He still has to be a supremely trained athlete to even compete against the world's best on two good legs.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=oly&id=82579200 -
OP i see your point however there was a seris of protests over this 4 years ago when he was qualifing. An independent research facility was hired and tested him against other athletes and how the limbs would aid him. The results showed in 2012. My complaint he is now going to compete in the para-olympics.0
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Yeah, I bet Michael Phelps and James Magnussen have already booked their surgery dates to get their own limbs surgically removed so they can gain such an "advantage"!
Oh, I know - why don't you get a limb removed and then you too can enjoy being "part man/part machine".
Brilliant post. Brilliant.0 -
My final word and then I'll let you all run with the topic...
I'm not taking away from Oscar Pistorius's personal courage or achievements - read my original post. Nor am I saying that IN THIS INSTANCE Oscar Pistorius had an advantage. I am simply asking the question whether THIS is what we want to see in the olympic games in the future?
Drugs in sport have caused enough doubt about whether results are a true reflection of an athletes natural ability... now we are going to throw 'machines' into the mix???
Have fun.0 -
Prosthetic limbs are hardly what I would call a "machine." It amazes me that people think he actually has an advantage because he has fake legs.0
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Well, women who test with a high natural level of testosterone aren't allowed to compete in the Olympics so I'm guessing since they're willing to discriminate against perfectly able bodied women they would have done a lot of testing and screening to make sure he didn't have any advantage whatsoever. Because they're jerks...0
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if the athlete has the will power and drive to work that hard he or she should be allowed to compete....its not like their artificial appendages are robotic...they are strapped on to their arms or legs....they are using their own will power and body to move...
i am not disagreeing with the OP, just stating my opinion on this issue. I am just saying they are human just like the rest of us and if they are determined to qualify for the Olympics or world championships, more power to them!!! they are the true spirit of the sports they represent. Life gave them a curve ball and they swung for the fences and prevailed.0 -
My final word and then I'll let you all run with the topic...
I'm not taking away from Oscar Pistorius's personal courage or achievements - read my original post. Nor am I saying that IN THIS INSTANCE Oscar Pistorius had an advantage. I am simply asking the question whether THIS is what we want to see in the olympic games in the future?
Drugs in sport have caused enough doubt about whether results are a true reflection of an athletes natural ability... now we are going to throw 'machines' into the mix???
Have fun.
*facepalm*0 -
The guy qualified for the final and finished dead last.
How's that unfair advantage looking now?0 -
The guy qualified for the final and finished dead last.
How's that unfair advantage looking now?
Yeah... that is what I was thinking.0 -
The guy qualified for the final and finished dead last.
How's that unfair advantage looking now?
Yeah... that is what I was thinking.
what....the power boosters on his machine legs didn't propel him to first?!0 -
Its an artificial enhancement or assistance devices and shouldnt be allowed per the original intent of the Olympiad..
Now that I think about it, in the beginning women werent in the olympics.
I know there are a few devices that have crept in and been in use for years
Special shoes are allowed for weightlifters to help in their stability and..
Taylored flex characteristics for poles for pole vaulting,
special track shoes. Shoes of any kind
If all of these,then Why cant swimmers have webbed fingers toes ,fins a snorkel etc?
Doesnt seem like consistent application of assistance devices .
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There should be different Olympic catagories
The first Category We currently recognize is that women and men compete with their own gender
It wouldnt hurt to let the top woman compete with the top man in their identicle events. That would be reasonable
New Catagories
1-Raw al natural
2- limited enhancements or assistance device
3- Bionic Olympiad Open class Modified
I think the standard requirementt for the olympiad was one had to be human and all that is natural or that he/she is born with. At least in earlier times. It has changed some.
The next thing we will be seeing is the genetic manipulation of dna in olympic participants.
Cross species animals and likely humans have been relatively sucessful (mainly military funding).. One is animals acute hearing and other characteristics imbedded and then grown in man .
Then theres the cheetah legs (quick twitch fibers) grown in humans. i know thats possible ,cause Ive seen people with elephant legs...why , you may even know some one with them?
please no hate mail now!
There are few limits in this genetic manipulation area and it will only blurr our concept of fair or advantage.??
so i now invision even more catagories for the Olympics0 -
This OP is the definitive example of ignorance. Takes an opinion, doesn't do any research on the subjects, posts it in a public place, then leaves when people start disagreeing with him AND shows research to back their posts.
The case with Oscar Pistorius is that he was far ahead of his fellow disabled competitors, so he wanted to race against able-bodies people. He wasn't allowed in the 2008 Olympics because they believed he would have an unfair advantage against "normal" people with a 30% increase in comparable performance. they did countless tests and research after those Olympics to see if he actually did have an advantage. They were conclusive that he actually had a serious disadvantage.
The heat where he finished dead last proved that.
If an athlete, able, or disabled, were to perform at the elite level the Olympics demand, who are we to deny them?
Remember the girl who had to get a DNA test done because everyone thought she was a man?0 -
Prosthetic limbs are hardly what I would call a "machine." It amazes me that people think he actually has an advantage because he has fake legs.
That's what I think. It's not like it he wheels and a motor.
I think it's amazing. Anyone who qualifies for the Olympics under any circumstances is amazing.0 -
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Once, in American style football, a few decades ago, there was a kicker who had a stub for a kicking foot. He wore a special shoe that was basically a leg-driven light weight sledge hammer kind of boot thing. That guy could really plow into a football. He was one of the best kickers of his era.
Not surprisingly, nobody showed up after him, having chopped off parts of their kicking feet so they too could emulate his achievements.
If you think for one moment that your argument that we're somehow going to see athletes showing up with all sorts of missing limbs and miracle prosthetics in their places is worthy or valid, or for that matter even pointless, you sir are an outright idiot.
Grow up, and leave Mr Pistorius alone. He's a remarkable athlete who's made some remarkable accomplishments. Whether you like it or not. If he can run fast enough to get into the Olympics then he deserves that opportunity. And the idea that being a double amputee is "unfair" for the rest of us? Seriously. You REALLY need to grow up.0 -
This OP is the definitive example of ignorance. Takes an opinion, doesn't do any research on the subjects, posts it in a public place, then leaves when people start disagreeing with him AND shows research to back their posts.
I haven't left... I'm still here. Just going to let others discuss.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/olympics/2012/writers/david_epstein/08/03/oscar-pistorius-london-olympics/index.html0 -
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Yes, it makes so much sense to ban people who fight against the difficulties life throw on their paths. Just because he's called Blade Runner it doesn't mean he has cybernetics.
As the Olympic Creed goes:The most important thing in the Olympic Games is not to win but to take part, just as the most important thing in life is not the triumph but the struggle. The essential thing is not to have conquered but to have fought well.
I think that man fights well and is an inspiration to everyone. That's the spirit of Olympics.0 -
Wow0
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Once, in American style football, a few decades ago, there was a kicker who had a stub for a kicking foot. He wore a special shoe that was basically a leg-driven light weight sledge hammer kind of boot thing. That guy could really plow into a football. He was one of the best kickers of his era.
Not surprisingly, nobody showed up after him, having chopped off parts of their kicking feet so they too could emulate his achievements.
If you think for one moment that your argument that we're somehow going to see athletes showing up with all sorts of missing limbs and miracle prosthetics in their places is worthy or valid, or for that matter even pointless, you sir are an outright idiot.
Grow up, and leave Mr Pistorius alone. He's a remarkable athlete who's made some remarkable accomplishments. Whether you like it or not. If he can run fast enough to get into the Olympics then he deserves that opportunity. And the idea that being a double amputee is "unfair" for the rest of us? Seriously. You REALLY need to grow up.
i so agree with this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you took the words right out of my brain!!!0
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