Rrrrrrrr... DOCTORS!
MoveTheMountain
Posts: 764
Venting about the incompetence of mainstream medicine... a friend of mine had a full physical yesterday. He's 5'9" tall and weighs 190lb. His body fat (measured in the doctor's office with calipers) came in at 10.8%. By all accounts, that's pretty good. He's a lifelong athlete, and in his upper 40's. And his doctor tells him, 'well, I'd like it if you got your weight down to 170 pounds.'
The guy has just under 11% body fat, and his doctor wants him to lose 20 pounds. I did the math quickly, and, assuming the goal would be lose fat, as opposed to muscle (or organs... or limbs...), that would bring his body fat down around 1.6% (since his lean body mass is about 167 right now, assuming the doctor's staff did the caliper measurements correctly and his body fat really is 10.8% or so.)
Obviously, this is STUPID advice, and more than it being STUPID (which it is), it's DANGEROUS!
Anyone else have any stories about how a doctor told you something you knew was just plain wrong?
The guy has just under 11% body fat, and his doctor wants him to lose 20 pounds. I did the math quickly, and, assuming the goal would be lose fat, as opposed to muscle (or organs... or limbs...), that would bring his body fat down around 1.6% (since his lean body mass is about 167 right now, assuming the doctor's staff did the caliper measurements correctly and his body fat really is 10.8% or so.)
Obviously, this is STUPID advice, and more than it being STUPID (which it is), it's DANGEROUS!
Anyone else have any stories about how a doctor told you something you knew was just plain wrong?
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Mainstream medicine or one particular doctor........if you want horror stories about alternative medicine let me know.0
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Many doctors are relying on the BMI index. Using this index your husband is considered overweight and won't be at "normal" weight until he hits about 169 pounds. As you can see this is totally ridiculous. It does not consider his muscle mass percentage. The BMI index seems to think people have little to no muscle mass at all.0
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Why did he want your friend to take off some weight? There may have been a good reason, like if he has severe joint problems in his lower extremities or some organ disease.
There are reasons to take off weight that have nothing to do with being "fat".0 -
My doctor is actually pretty heavy and he always told me my high blood pressure was genetic and not caused by being overweight. He had no comment two weeks ago when my numbers looked great and I told him I hadn't taken any blood pressure medicine in several months. When I pointed out that I had lost 40lbs since the last time I saw him he asked "On purpose?"0
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The 'on purpose' question is a fair one. Working in a cancer hospital unplanned weight loss is a major symptom for doctors to look out for so any significant weight loss should be identified as deliberate or symptomatic of a health problem. The doctor's size has nothing to do with that.0
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Mainstream medicine or one particular doctor........if you want horror stories about alternative medicine let me know.
Mainstream medicine - this guy isn't an outlyer. About 7 years ago, I saw a doctor because I had backpain. He took a quick x-ray and tried to schedule spinal surgery. I told him 'hold on there,' and left. Basically, I needed to get in better shape and wear better shoes. I dropped 30 pounds, and the backpain mysteriously vanished. But how many people have had discs in their back fused for absolutely no reason? For lots of people, a doctor tells you that you need a procedure, they just take their word for it and show up at the hospital.0 -
Many doctors are relying on the BMI index. Using this index your husband is considered overweight and won't be at "normal" weight until he hits about 169 pounds. As you can see this is totally ridiculous. It does not consider his muscle mass percentage. The BMI index seems to think people have little to no muscle mass at all.
Lol, he's a friend, not my husband. I am a husband to a female of the opposite sex.
But YES, I totally agree with what you're saying about the BMI. It kills me that these people are supposed to be among the most educated in our society, and yet they apply so little critical thinking. I mean, all it takes is 3rd grade math to know that if you try to take 20 pounds off someone with 11% body fat, you're going to have a problem.0 -
I'd kill for 11% body fat.
Really...point out who and I'll do it.
Amazing0 -
Why did he want your friend to take off some weight? There may have been a good reason, like if he has severe joint problems in his lower extremities or some organ disease.
There are reasons to take off weight that have nothing to do with being "fat".
There was no specific reason called out, and, again, my friend is in good shape. Exercises a lot, etc. No joint pain or anything like that. Just mindless adherence to the BMI chart.0 -
I'd kill for 11% body fat.
Really...point out who and I'll do it.
Amazing
No joke.0 -
My problem with doctors is that they use guideline numbers as mandatory numbers. They don't seem to understand the term "Guideline". The guidelines were developed for what is deemed a normal person. Not everybody falls inside ranges of the guidelines. Some people ranges may be mid range to above the guideline numbers or vice versus because everyone is different. Different body types, height, weight, lifestyle, and probably a few other varibles. I have to remind doctor of this everytime I see her. She agrees then turns right around and says "I want you to get this below the high number of the guideline".0
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Mainstream medicine or one particular doctor........if you want horror stories about alternative medicine let me know.
Mainstream medicine - this guy isn't an outlyer. About 7 years ago, I saw a doctor because I had backpain. He took a quick x-ray and tried to schedule spinal surgery. I told him 'hold on there,' and left. Basically, I needed to get in better shape and wear better shoes. I dropped 30 pounds, and the backpain mysteriously vanished. But how many people have had discs in their back fused for absolutely no reason? For lots of people, a doctor tells you that you need a procedure, they just take their word for it and show up at the hospital.
So you're suggesting that all mainstream practitioners should be held in disrepute based on a couple of anecdotes? (BTW, I'm not defending the doctor who suggested your friend lose weight, I'm just curious why you're tarring all mainstream medical practitioners with the same brush - what's your agenda?)0 -
BMI was never meant to be for individuals, it is a way of studying populations. But too many docs follow it blindly. Waist size is the real key. But once again many docs don't chart waist size.0
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Docs are trained to treat the biological workings of the body. Nutrition and nourishment really isn't their strong point. It's a damn shame.0
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My husband is on Warfarin (blood thinners) and the Dr put him on Niacin as an added help for his cholesterol, but the Niacin caused bad flushing (feels like you skin is on fire) rather than change the Niacin the Dr actually wanted to put him on a Full Dose of Asprin daily to help the flushing. Asprin + Blood thinners = VERY BAD idea!!!! This is even after we reminded Dr that he was on the Warfarin! Damn Idiot!! No longer our DR!!!0
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BMI is ridiculous. They just discovered that it grossly over estimates the body mass of fit individuals and UNDER estimates it for obese individuals.
If my doctor ever told me that based on the BMI chart I was obese I'd laugh.
Then find a new doctor because clearly they are not doing their job and reading up on important things.0 -
Yes! My MD told my to eat around 1,000 calories a day. And not to eat my exercise calories back (or increase my calories when I exercise). He is aware that I run, lift, and hike. I only have 40lbs to lose, have no medical issues what so ever, so there is no need for him to tell me to basically starve. Ugh!!
Your friends body fat % is admirable!
I fired him.
Edited to add: They said my 11 year son's BMI was a little high. He is 5'4, 96 pounds and plays multiple sports. Lean and mean:) What the eff are they thinking?0 -
My husband is on Warfarin (blood thinners) and the Dr put him on Niacin as an added help for his cholesterol, but the Niacin caused bad flushing (feels like you skin is on fire) rather than change the Niacin the Dr actually wanted to put him on a Full Dose of Asprin daily to help the flushing. Asprin + Blood thinners = VERY BAD idea!!!! This is even after we reminded Dr that he was on the Warfarin! Damn Idiot!! No longer our DR!!!
My husband was taking niacin and had to stop because of the flushing. We take a daily multi with niacin and the only time I actually notice the flush is if I haven't eaten anything.0 -
Rather than judging an entire population of people based on one member's poor insight, address the issue with the perpetrator himself. It's ridiculous to assume that all doctors would do the same.
Also, Coumadin and aspirin is pretty standard in many cases.0 -
I tend to say, "Doctors are idiots".
I don't really mean it. Usually, they are pretty smart people. Every doctor I have met outside of their office, like in a social gathering, seem pretty sharp. But, I think they get caught up in weird *kitten*. A guy I work with is probably in the best shape of anyone I know, and his doctor was telling him that he is obese. He kept questioning them, and kept asking because it concerned him. Eventually, the doctor backed off and told him to not worry about it. Why make that statement at all until you are sure. All you have to do is look at him and you can tell he's not obese. It's ridiculous. It's times like those when I realize that they aren't really using their brains. They are just looking at paper.
Going through cancer with my mom, I've learned to never ever trust a single word any doctor tells you, ever. Question EVERYTHING they say and never just take their word for it. Ever. They might kill you.0 -
My dr told me that a procedure that I knew to be a diagnostic procedure because I had had it done before was actually a treatment for the condition that he was diagnosing. I decided to go to a specialist for that one.0
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I tend to say that doctors are idiots and I mean it fully.
There have been so many issues with SO many doctors that my wife has visited over the last few years that it makes me crazy! I could go through it all and give examples but this post would turn into a gigantic wall of text.
Needless to say that while you still have to be on your toes, we've had MUCH better luck with naturopath doctors actually LISTENING to what she has to say, does the appropriate tests, takes time to interpret them and provide her with treatment options, with plenty of follow up and reliance on drugs only when it makes sense.0 -
My grandmother always said you need to take care of you own health and don't rely solely on doctors. Because doctors "practice medicine". I giggled when she said that, but I understand what she meant.0
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My doctor literally blaims everything on my weight. Oh, you have a headache? Its cause you're fat. You broke your arm? Fatty. But I've lost 35 pounds and she hasn't even acknowledged it. As if my self esteem wasn't low enough. I don't need this wench telling me all my problems are because I'm overweight when I know they're not.0
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I tend to say, "Doctors are idiots".
I don't really mean it. Usually, they are pretty smart people. Every doctor I have met outside of their office, like in a social gathering, seem pretty sharp. But, I think they get caught up in weird *kitten*. A guy I work with is probably in the best shape of anyone I know, and his doctor was telling him that he is obese. He kept questioning them, and kept asking because it concerned him. Eventually, the doctor backed off and told him to not worry about it. Why make that statement at all until you are sure. All you have to do is look at him and you can tell he's not obese. It's ridiculous. It's times like those when I realize that they aren't really using their brains. They are just looking at paper.
Going through cancer with my mom, I've learned to never ever trust a single word any doctor tells you, ever. Question EVERYTHING they say and never just take their word for it. Ever. They might kill you.
I agree!!! When my grandmother had breast cancer, they almost performed surgery on the wrong breast!!!! She kept saying no, it's the right one, not the left, and they thought she was just saying things from the medication. Good thing my grandfather stepped in. And even before she was diagnosed, she went to the doctor several times saying she had an uncomfortable lump in her breast but they kept telling her nothing was there.0 -
I agree with Brian. Look for a doctor that you can speak with, you trust and who comunicates ideas well to you. They could be the smartest one of them all and if they can not communicate with you regarding results and plans they have for you - then it doesn't matter - you might as well use Dr. Google. Would you go to a store or a restuarant over and over if you kept getting bad food or over charged? I bet doctors have just as many stories about us as patients. Surround yourself with people you trust and work well with, the rest takes care of itself.
And of course BMI doesn't tell us anything about body fat%, it was never intended to. It remains a quick and easy method for INSURANCE companies to predict risk of certain illnesses.0 -
I agree, and I have no agenda. Just an average woman who has a physical once a year.
All the years I was overweight by 60 pounds - never a word about "Lose some weight." So I have the opposite gripe. Instead of treating the cause, I was being treated for the symptoms.
Reflux? Here, have this $1,800 procedure.
Knee pain? How about physical therapy, X-Rays, MRIs, surgery? $4,700 later......
Constant migraines? Here, let's try (no joke - over the years,) "Let's try antidepressants, beta blockers, anti-seizure meds, or all-at-once." ..add in a rotating pharmacoepia of specific expensive drugs to take when the above prophyllactic measures failed.
Back pain? *see knee pain above. Only I didn't do the surgery this time. I was getting smarter.
Fast forward. Lost the 60 pounds. Took myself off all the drugs. I'm fine. NO thanks to you, Ms. Medical Doctor. I don't even talk to her about my issues anymore....oh, wait, what issues?
Whatever happened to nutrition and exercise? Cures just about anything. Oh yeah, can't make any money off that.
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I HATE the doctors that use BMI to determine obesity and whether or not you need to lose weight. I was told when I was 16.....16!!!!!! that I had to lose at least 10lbs to be in a healthy weight range. At my lowest weight as an adult I still was not within the "healthy" range and I looked like I didn't eat (I had been sick) and people were asking me if I was ok. If any doctor told me that today I would kick them to the curb.
**Do I also need to mention I was playing soccer, field hockey and many other sports at the time and was pretty much all muscle?
Stupid Doctors!0 -
My doctors (FP and OB) are awesome. They listen to everything I have to say, and are understanding of genetics and so on. I think he might need a new doctor? At LEAST a second opinion before he commits to anything,0
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Docs are trained to treat the biological workings of the body. Nutrition and nourishment really isn't their strong point. It's a damn shame.
This^ and trained to treat illness, not prevention. Unfortunately, that now usually means pharmaceuticals or other questionable procedures. Any doctor who "poo poos" natural remedies, medicinal plants, and promotes an unhealthy diet (low fat) isn't very knowledgable imo.
I've had a number of doctors who were very honest and disclosed that they could not offer nutritional advice because they didn't learn much about it in school (one course). I appreciate the honesty, but since diet is the main factor for health, I must rely on gathering my own information and taking responsibility for my own health. However, there certainly still is a time and place for their advice/treatment, keeping in mind that they work within what I consider to be a very flawed industry.
Doctors have their uses, but one must also do what makes sense for their own health. Following only the BMI recommendations to determine a healthy weight isn't accurate nor necessarily healthy. Achieving the mid to low range of my BMI would make me too thin, gaunt, and unhealthy. I've seen my Mom at that range and she looked, and felt, close to death.0
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