Orthorexia Nervosa (obsessed with health foods)?

What do you know about it? Do you think it's a real problem if a person is filling their TDEE (or at least BMR) with the proper amount of calories and a variety of foods?
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Replies

  • gwenr
    gwenr Posts: 139 Member
    I know it exists because my mom is this way. While I appreciate that she taught us how to eat heathfully (I have two sisters and a brother) she was very restrictive. For instance...no sugar allowed in the house, all our food was made by her at home so never had school lunches, did not go to McDonald's even one time. I mean...all of that seems good and it is, but it also made all of us kids obsessive about food in defferent ways. I'm a healthy weight for my height but I've battled with over and under eating for my whole life, as have my siblings.

    Just something to think about. I would have appreciated if she had been a bit more balanced. That's how I am with my kids now...they have treats but their overall diet is healthy.

    *I saw your post before you edited it, and my response is based on that first post*
  • EccentricDad
    EccentricDad Posts: 875 Member
    I know it exists because my mom is this way. While I appreciate that she taught us how to eat heathfully (I have two sisters and a brother) she was very restrictive. For instance...no sugar allowed in the house, all our food was made by her at home so never had school lunches, did not go to McDonald's even one time. I mean...all of that seems good and it is, but it also made all of us kids obsessive about food in defferent ways. I'm a healthy weight for my height but I've battled with over and under eating for my whole life, as have my siblings.

    Just something to think about. I would have appreciated if she had been a bit more balanced. That's how I am with my kids now...they have treats but their overall diet is healthy.

    *I saw your post before you edited it, and my response is based on that first post*

    My parents were loose cannons and I grew up being a loose cannon too. Doughnuts for breakfast? Sure! Cake for Dinner? Sure! I replaced real meals with desserts because that's what my parents did. And you didn't just get 1 doughnut, you could eat an entire box if you wanted....

    So while I see how making kids overly concerned with food could be bad, it makes me wonder if being loose cannons is any better....
  • EccentricDad
    EccentricDad Posts: 875 Member
    The solution is "moderation". But what counts as moderation? I mean, at what point should a child or adult be cut off?
    Yes, eating a cupcake once and a while wouldn't be bad. But eating an entire cake would be terrible right?
    And is it really Orthorexia Nervosa if you think you have a Gluten allergy because of a successful elimination diet but you have no insurance to verify it?
  • gwenr
    gwenr Posts: 139 Member
    That's why I'm advocating balance...I think you're approach might be as unbalanced as your parents just in the other direction? Not judging by any means.....just something to think about. I'm sure you want the best for your kids, we all do...sometimes it's hard to always know what the right thing is.

    I would have been in HEAVEN if I had ever had a donut as a kid!! LOL!

    Im sensitive at times too so I hope I don't offend.
  • gwenr
    gwenr Posts: 139 Member
    I think moderation is different for every person, for every family. Moderation for one person might be extreme for another. You just have to experiment and see what works for your family.

    I'm curious why you think it's a problem??
  • EccentricDad
    EccentricDad Posts: 875 Member
    I'm asking these questions because someone said something that completely knocked me off my confidence horse. Before my activity on the forums, I was a healthy, happy individual. But every day I'm on here, someone new is critiquing me saying that I'm unhealthy, disorderly, and overall a rotten person. I don't know what to believe any more... :(
  • Susancarole
    Susancarole Posts: 18 Member
    Believe the people who know you, not just what you post or what shows on your daily diet. But do that even with a HUGE dose of believing in yourself so you can filter the crap from the truth. I am sure you are a health individual -- now get back to happy. :)
  • BigGuy47
    BigGuy47 Posts: 1,768 Member
    Before my activity on the forums, I was a healthy, happy individual.
    As with food, these forums should also be taken in moderation. There are so many opinions coming from so many angles it's often difficult to make any sense of it all. Sometimes it's best to I walk away from the forums for a while, especially if you've reached a saturation point.. my 2 cents.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
    There is a HUGE difference between making a conscious effort to eat healthy and obsessing over perfect foods. The key word is obsession. When you can't function in your everyday life because of an obsession, ANY obsession, then it's a problem.
  • Susancarole
    Susancarole Posts: 18 Member
    Believe the people who know you, not just what you post or what shows on your daily diet. But do that even with a HUGE dose of believing in yourself so you can filter the crap from the truth. I am sure you are a health individual -- now get back to happy. :)

    healthy
  • ZugTheMegasaurus
    ZugTheMegasaurus Posts: 801 Member
    I'm not sure what the original post was before editing, so I'm kind of reacting to gwenr for the context.

    I saw that sort of behavior when I was a kid with my best friend's dad. The whole family was healthy, no issues with health or weight, but my friend's dad was very weird about food restriction. He would not allow fat or sugar in the house. We'd go to bake cookies (as 10-year old girls will do) and every container that was supposed to have sugar in it would be crammed with artificial sweetener packets. The fridge was stocked with fat-free products to replace oils, butter, cheese, etc. My friend would crave the stuff so bad that she'd grab mayonnaise packets off the salad bar at school and just eat the whole thing (not on a sandwich or something, mind you, just sucked it right out of the packet).

    He did it in the interests of health (and was very thin as a result) and was a nice guy, but the behavior was certainly harmful in some ways (probably more than the ways in which it was beneficial).
  • EccentricDad
    EccentricDad Posts: 875 Member
    I'm curious why you think it's a problem??

    If you're talking about the Gluten. I was diagnosed with ADHD, GERD, and before I lost my insurance I was tested for Rheumatoid Arthritis and they said it was non-conclusive (early stages or was Fibromyalgia). Anyways, I did research and people have had success on a GF diet and it helped reverse ADHD, GERD, and Fibromyalgia issues; so since I have no health insurance, I gave it a try since it's cheaper than seeing the doctor and getting a Celiac test. Turns out, it was a step in the right direction. But now that limits a great deal of foods for me because of this Gluten intolerance potential. And I do notice my ADHD, GERD, and Fib symptoms come back when I have something that is contaminated with Gluten, it only makes my concerns more valid.

    Some people have so much faith in the health care system that they think I am being Orthorexia about my restriction; but I feel that since it's working, I should follow it and just find other ways to get those nutrients. But not everyone can agree with me and we live in a world where NO ONE keeps their opinions to themselves... And since I take everyone's opinions personally (even strangers) it's hard to get back up when you don't have the support of your peers...
  • gwenr
    gwenr Posts: 139 Member
    I'm asking these questions because someone said something that completely knocked me off my confidence horse. Before my activity on the forums, I was a healthy, happy individual. But every day I'm on here, someone new is critiquing me saying that I'm unhealthy, disorderly, and overall a rotten person. I don't know what to believe any more... :(

    OMG!!! Don't let STRANGERS get to you! Who gives a flying *kitten*? That said...if you put yourself out there SOMEONE is going to have something rude to say about it....you just have to ignore. IGNORE...seriously.
  • EccentricDad
    EccentricDad Posts: 875 Member
    I'm not sure what the original post was before editing, so I'm kind of reacting to gwenr for the context.

    I saw that sort of behavior when I was a kid with my best friend's dad. The whole family was healthy, no issues with health or weight, but my friend's dad was very weird about food restriction. He would not allow fat or sugar in the house. We'd go to bake cookies (as 10-year old girls will do) and every container that was supposed to have sugar in it would be crammed with artificial sweetener packets. The fridge was stocked with fat-free products to replace oils, butter, cheese, etc. My friend would crave the stuff so bad that she'd grab mayonnaise packets off the salad bar at school and just eat the whole thing (not on a sandwich or something, mind you, just sucked it right out of the packet).

    He did it in the interests of health (and was very thin as a result) and was a nice guy, but the behavior was certainly harmful in some ways (probably more than the ways in which it was beneficial).


    I'm worried about my daughter being this way. She is a sugar hog and the reason I restrict her and my son is because they have ADHD symptoms as well. So rather than dope them up on Ritalin, I control their sugar. But the cravings are there and fruit just isn't enough to make her happy. On some days I give in. But I'm worried about them having gluten issues too. Since being on a restricted diet, both kids are performing in school very well; but is that my diet's fault or is it just maturity? Who knows... I wanna take credit, but like which diet to follow, one can never be for certain.
  • gwenr
    gwenr Posts: 139 Member
    What do you know about it? Do you think it's a real problem if a person is filling their TDEE (or at least BMR) with the proper amount of calories and a variety of foods?

    This was the 'problem' I was referring to. It's only a problem if you think it is.
  • ZugTheMegasaurus
    ZugTheMegasaurus Posts: 801 Member
    The solution is "moderation". But what counts as moderation? I mean, at what point should a child or adult be cut off?
    Yes, eating a cupcake once and a while wouldn't be bad. But eating an entire cake would be terrible right?
    And is it really Orthorexia Nervosa if you think you have a Gluten allergy because of a successful elimination diet but you have no insurance to verify it?
    It's not indicative of any particular disorder to self-diagnose, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. You can feel better without gluten without having an allergy, so the elimination diet could indeed work; however, diagnosing yourself rather than using a medical test isn't wise. If the diet works for you and makes you feel better, then do it! Save the allergy discussion for when you are able to afford to see a doctor.

    And in my own opinion, defining behaviors as "good" and "bad" does more harm than good. Why is eating an entire cake terrible? Sure, it won't help you lose weight. But if you're starving for a month, it might be a real benefit to eat that much. It's a matter of perspective. If it would be bad for you, then choose not to do it. But not everyone has your goals or circumstances, so it's impossible to say that any particular action is universally good or bad.
  • funkyspunky872
    funkyspunky872 Posts: 866 Member
    Yes, it is a problem. It is an eating disorder just the same as anorexia, bulimia, BED, or EDNOS. It's not normal; it's an unhealthy obsession. Those with orthorexia eat only what they deem healthy and have no sense of moderation with 'junk' foods. They often cut entire food groups out of their diets. Many are also excessive exercisers. It's a mental disorder and should never be taken lightly. When food and exercise gets in the way of friends, family, and what YOU enjoy, then there's something wrong.
  • EccentricDad
    EccentricDad Posts: 875 Member
    I'm asking these questions because someone said something that completely knocked me off my confidence horse. Before my activity on the forums, I was a healthy, happy individual. But every day I'm on here, someone new is critiquing me saying that I'm unhealthy, disorderly, and overall a rotten person. I don't know what to believe any more... :(

    OMG!!! Don't let STRANGERS get to you! Who gives a flying *kitten*? That said...if you put yourself out there SOMEONE is going to have something rude to say about it....you just have to ignore. IGNORE...seriously.

    I had to close my Facebook account because I can't just Ignore. HSP's take everything personally because a person wouldn't say something that wasn't true right? My wife says I lack common sense. I think the real problem is I lack confidence and skepticism. But wouldn't the world be better if people who wear rose colored glasses like me didn't have to take the glasses off and see the world for what it seems to REALLY be?
  • gwenr
    gwenr Posts: 139 Member
    I'm not sure what the original post was before editing, so I'm kind of reacting to gwenr for the context.

    I saw that sort of behavior when I was a kid with my best friend's dad. The whole family was healthy, no issues with health or weight, but my friend's dad was very weird about food restriction. He would not allow fat or sugar in the house. We'd go to bake cookies (as 10-year old girls will do) and every container that was supposed to have sugar in it would be crammed with artificial sweetener packets. The fridge was stocked with fat-free products to replace oils, butter, cheese, etc. My friend would crave the stuff so bad that she'd grab mayonnaise packets off the salad bar at school and just eat the whole thing (not on a sandwich or something, mind you, just sucked it right out of the packet).

    He did it in the interests of health (and was very thin as a result) and was a nice guy, but the behavior was certainly harmful in some ways (probably more than the ways in which it was beneficial).

    Okay, THIS..BUT...I also couldn't have anything with ARTIFICAL stuff in it either....so no regular OR diet soda. And yes, it led me to some behaviors like the above.
  • EccentricDad
    EccentricDad Posts: 875 Member
    obsessed is what lazy people call dedication.

    I don't understand what you mean.
  • gwenr
    gwenr Posts: 139 Member
    I'm asking these questions because someone said something that completely knocked me off my confidence horse. Before my activity on the forums, I was a healthy, happy individual. But every day I'm on here, someone new is critiquing me saying that I'm unhealthy, disorderly, and overall a rotten person. I don't know what to believe any more... :(

    OMG!!! Don't let STRANGERS get to you! Who gives a flying *kitten*? That said...if you put yourself out there SOMEONE is going to have something rude to say about it....you just have to ignore. IGNORE...seriously.

    I had to close my Facebook account because I can't just Ignore. HSP's take everything personally because a person wouldn't say something that wasn't true right? My wife says I lack common sense. I think the real problem is I lack confidence and skepticism. But wouldn't the world be better if people who wear rose colored glasses like me didn't have to take the glasses off and see the world for what it seems to REALLY be?

    I don't use Facebook either. People say stuff ALL THE TIME that isn't true. Rule of thumb...take everything that EVERYONE says with a grain of salt. You have to decide for yourself what works and what doesn't and ignore what people think. I'm similar and therapy has helped a lot.
  • Susancarole
    Susancarole Posts: 18 Member
    I'm asking these questions because someone said something that completely knocked me off my confidence horse. Before my activity on the forums, I was a healthy, happy individual. But every day I'm on here, someone new is critiquing me saying that I'm unhealthy, disorderly, and overall a rotten person. I don't know what to believe any more... :(

    OMG!!! Don't let STRANGERS get to you! Who gives a flying *kitten*? That said...if you put yourself out there SOMEONE is going to have something rude to say about it....you just have to ignore. IGNORE...seriously.

    Much more eloquent than my response! Ditto.
  • gwenr
    gwenr Posts: 139 Member
    Yes, it is a problem. It is an eating disorder just the same as anorexia, bulimia, BED, or EDNOS. It's not normal; it's an unhealthy obsession. Those with orthorexia eat only what they deem healthy and have no sense of moderation with 'junk' foods. They often cut entire food groups out of their diets. Many are also excessive exercisers. It's a mental disorder and should never be taken lightly. When food and exercise gets in the way of friends, family, and what YOU enjoy, then there's something wrong.

    YES! This. You said it much better than I ever could have. :)
  • jrbb03092
    jrbb03092 Posts: 198 Member
    I think you have to follow whatever is right for you. Short of actually harming yourself, why is it anyone else's business? And even then, it would be your immediate family's business.

    I have gone veggie over the last few months. And if you'd told me at any time ever in my life that I would go veggie, I would have laughed.

    But I became deathly ill with a gastrointestinal infection during a trip to Peru two years ago and continued to have a lot of GI problems after. I saw specialist after specialist as they ruled out all sorts of things and finally came up with a diagnosis of post-infectious motility disorder. I told them I'd tried everything under the sun diet-wise and they said a hallmark of PIMD is not being able to find a diet-related cure and to not bother trying - that I'd just drive myself crazy. They said it would take up to 5 years for my body to return to normal.

    Anyway. Fast forward almost 2 years and it was making me so miserable that I spent 24/7 feeling awful.

    I had got to a point where every time I put a piece of meat in my mouth I would instantly - and I do mean instantly - have heartburn, reflux, my chest seizing up tight, etc, so I thought, fine, I'm just going to cut out meat. Let's see if anything happens. One full day passed and when I went on my next morning's walk, I felt a little better, less like I was going to throw up. And the next day got even better, so on and so on, until I couldn't imagine why I would ever want to have another bite of meat if I could feel that good without it.

    I'd forgotten what it felt like to feel normal, to be without pain, and I don't know if the intensity of your symptoms was anything like that, but if it was, I don't blame you at all for clinging to your restrictions so strictly. You have to do what works for you.
  • EccentricDad
    EccentricDad Posts: 875 Member
    Yes, it is a problem. It is an eating disorder just the same as anorexia, bulimia, BED, or EDNOS. It's not normal; it's an unhealthy obsession. Those with orthorexia eat only what they deem healthy and have no sense of moderation with 'junk' foods. They often cut entire food groups out of their diets. Many are also excessive exercisers. It's a mental disorder and should never be taken lightly. When food and exercise gets in the way of friends, family, and what YOU enjoy, then there's something wrong.

    Well luckily I don't exercise so that means I'm good right?
    But seriously though, I just cook at home meals for all 3 meals. We can't afford to eat out and I'd rather avoid fast food if I can. So I don't see myself as "obsessed" with eating healthy as much as I am maybe "obsessed" with learning what is healthy and what isn't. I mean, shouldn't every calorie count?
  • ZugTheMegasaurus
    ZugTheMegasaurus Posts: 801 Member
    I'm not sure what the original post was before editing, so I'm kind of reacting to gwenr for the context.

    I saw that sort of behavior when I was a kid with my best friend's dad. The whole family was healthy, no issues with health or weight, but my friend's dad was very weird about food restriction. He would not allow fat or sugar in the house. We'd go to bake cookies (as 10-year old girls will do) and every container that was supposed to have sugar in it would be crammed with artificial sweetener packets. The fridge was stocked with fat-free products to replace oils, butter, cheese, etc. My friend would crave the stuff so bad that she'd grab mayonnaise packets off the salad bar at school and just eat the whole thing (not on a sandwich or something, mind you, just sucked it right out of the packet).

    He did it in the interests of health (and was very thin as a result) and was a nice guy, but the behavior was certainly harmful in some ways (probably more than the ways in which it was beneficial).


    I'm worried about my daughter being this way. She is a sugar hog and the reason I restrict her and my son is because they have ADHD symptoms as well. So rather than dope them up on Ritalin, I control their sugar. But the cravings are there and fruit just isn't enough to make her happy. On some days I give in. But I'm worried about them having gluten issues too. Since being on a restricted diet, both kids are performing in school very well; but is that my diet's fault or is it just maturity? Who knows... I wanna take credit, but like which diet to follow, one can never be for certain.
    I have ADHD as well, so I'm speaking from experience when I say that diet can't necessarily control everything. ADHD can be a crippling problem and while I understand that many parents don't want to medicate, medication is not necessarily a bad thing. Medication that helps is something to be sought out rather than avoided.

    What sort of restricted diet do you have your kids on? You mentioned that you don't have insurance, but have you had a pediatrician give you the thumbs-up on it? Children's dietary needs are very different from adults' and restricting their diet without making sure it's a healthy option for them isn't a good idea. Don't think that they will do well on what you do well on. Definitely contact a health professional about the kids' dietary needs.
  • EccentricDad
    EccentricDad Posts: 875 Member
    I think you have to follow whatever is right for you. Short of actually harming yourself, why is it anyone else's business? And even then, it would be your immediate family's business.

    I have gone veggie over the last few months. And if you'd told me at any time ever in my life that I would go veggie, I would have laughed.

    But I became deathly ill with a gastrointestinal infection during a trip to Peru two years ago and continued to have a lot of GI problems after. I saw specialist after specialist as they ruled out all sorts of things and finally came up with a diagnosis of post-infectious motility disorder. I told them I'd tried everything under the sun diet-wise and they said a hallmark of PIMD is not being able to find a diet-related cure and to not bother trying - that I'd just drive myself crazy. They said it would take up to 5 years for my body to return to normal.

    Anyway. Fast forward almost 2 years and it was making me so miserable that I spent 24/7 feeling awful.

    I had got to a point where every time I put a piece of meat in my mouth I would instantly - and I do mean instantly - have heartburn, reflux, my chest seizing up tight, etc, so I thought, fine, I'm just going to cut out meat. Let's see if anything happens. One full day passed and when I went on my next morning's walk, I felt a little better, less like I was going to throw up. And the next day got even better, so on and so on, until I couldn't imagine why I would ever want to have another bite of meat if I could feel that good without it.

    I'd forgotten what it felt like to feel normal, to be without pain, and I don't know if the intensity of your symptoms was anything like that, but if it was, I don't blame you at all for clinging to your restrictions so strictly. You have to do what works for you.

    That's what Gluten does for me. After eating a meal with it, my stomach feels like pins and needles in it. I get bloated. I have acid reflux. My intestines feel inflamed. I can't think straight. I get double vision. If I had too much, I MUST throw it up or else the acid in my stomach makes me eat more to "cool it down". It's terrible!

    And the thing is, I've been eating bread, buns, doughnuts, and the such my entire life! Coincidentally, I've had ADHD, anxiety, and a failure to thrive my whole life too.
  • Mcmilligen
    Mcmilligen Posts: 332 Member
    Yes it most definitely is a disorder. I am 90% sure I had this during my later years in high school, although my parents thought that I was anorexic. I was eating, just a very select few things. I only allowed myself low calorie, low fat vegetables and non-starchy fruits like apples and MAYBE an orange. I only drank water or soy milk (almond milk was not big yet). If I was forced to eat something, I would remove bread, scrape of sauces and JUST eat the vegetables. I even stopped eating cereal, and got to the point where I think I did become anorexic. But it definitely started out cutting out fatty starchy foods in a desperate attempt to lose weight.

    How did this start? Teasing, which tore my already low self esteem to shreds. I thought becoming thin was the only way I could be happy with myself, my appearance, and the only way I would gain much desired attention from boys. Something just switched in my brain, and I became obsessed with researching which foods were the lowest in calories and fat. I verbally abused myself if I thought I had gone off track. I kept a food diary logging my calories with a daily limit of about 600 calories or so. (I now struggle to limit myself to 1400 calories, haha)

    Ultimately, I think Orthorexia is a gateway to anorexia. Thank god I smartened up and am no longer in that state of mind. What a horrible place it was to be there.

    Anyways! Carry on. My apologies for the wall of text. :flowerforyou:
  • EccentricDad
    EccentricDad Posts: 875 Member
    I'm not sure what the original post was before editing, so I'm kind of reacting to gwenr for the context.

    I saw that sort of behavior when I was a kid with my best friend's dad. The whole family was healthy, no issues with health or weight, but my friend's dad was very weird about food restriction. He would not allow fat or sugar in the house. We'd go to bake cookies (as 10-year old girls will do) and every container that was supposed to have sugar in it would be crammed with artificial sweetener packets. The fridge was stocked with fat-free products to replace oils, butter, cheese, etc. My friend would crave the stuff so bad that she'd grab mayonnaise packets off the salad bar at school and just eat the whole thing (not on a sandwich or something, mind you, just sucked it right out of the packet).

    He did it in the interests of health (and was very thin as a result) and was a nice guy, but the behavior was certainly harmful in some ways (probably more than the ways in which it was beneficial).


    I'm worried about my daughter being this way. She is a sugar hog and the reason I restrict her and my son is because they have ADHD symptoms as well. So rather than dope them up on Ritalin, I control their sugar. But the cravings are there and fruit just isn't enough to make her happy. On some days I give in. But I'm worried about them having gluten issues too. Since being on a restricted diet, both kids are performing in school very well; but is that my diet's fault or is it just maturity? Who knows... I wanna take credit, but like which diet to follow, one can never be for certain.
    I have ADHD as well, so I'm speaking from experience when I say that diet can't necessarily control everything. ADHD can be a crippling problem and while I understand that many parents don't want to medicate, medication is not necessarily a bad thing. Medication that helps is something to be sought out rather than avoided.

    What sort of restricted diet do you have your kids on? You mentioned that you don't have insurance, but have you had a pediatrician give you the thumbs-up on it? Children's dietary needs are very different from adults' and restricting their diet without making sure it's a healthy option for them isn't a good idea. Don't think that they will do well on what you do well on. Definitely contact a health professional about the kids' dietary needs.

    Just no sugar and they eat the grains that I do (no wheat, rye, barley, or oats). They have lots of healthy fats, lots of fruits, veggies, and lean meats. I gave them cereal one morning for breakfast and had a note from the teacher the same day (ADHD moment from 6 year old).
  • gayje
    gayje Posts: 230 Member
    I restrict our 2 youngest's childrens sugar intake for good reason. We are a blended family and their other parents (1 girl whose father is the culprit and 1 boy whose mother is the culprit) simply DO NOT watch what they eat. They do what's easy for them when it comes to food and that means pizzas, fast foods, frozen dinners, donuts for breakfast, cookies for lunch and as much cake as can fit in their bowl simply because the parent had a sweet tooth craving and felt somewhat justified in eating out of control portions and the kids were too. Now, the girl understands why I mostly say NO, you cannot have any more sugar today. The boy, well, he's not my biological child and he thinks I'm restricting him to be mean. He also professes his love to me on the occassions I do allow him sugar. :huh:

    Food has to be moderated or ALL things will be imbalanced. I know I over compensate by restricting sugar and I am ok with it. I am 1 person in these kids lives who sees the big picture and one day I will no longer be the Sugar Nazi.

    Do what you are already doing if you are seeing positive results and positive changes in behavior.