weight machines or free weights?

2

Replies

  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    How many calories do you burn lifting free weights

    That depends on volume, intensity, rest periods, your BMR and a bunch of other things. It is pretty possible to get an accurate assessment due to these variables plus EPOC is also very hard to estimate. That being said, assuming you are not doind circuit style conditioning work, the MFP estimates are probably as good as any.

    IMO, weight lifting should not be looked at with regard to calorie burn but with respect to body composition.
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
    This is a contentious point but I'll wade right in. I'll quote from Dr. Doug McGuff, an E.R. doc and personal trainer of many years:

    "The fact of the matter is that your muscles deal only with force-production requirements, which, in turn, are determined by the resistance to which the muscles are exposed - whether that resistance comes in the form of a free weight, a Nautilus machine, or a bucket of rocks. The scientific literature backs this up: according to the few properly performed studies that measured the effects of free weights versus machines, both are equally effective... since machines are safer and at least as efficient as free weights at stimulating muscles, we see no upside to taking a risk that isn't required".
    They forgot about the stabilizing muscles that prevent injuries.
  • Jynus
    Jynus Posts: 519 Member
    This is a contentious point but I'll wade right in. I'll quote from Dr. Doug McGuff, an E.R. doc and personal trainer of many years:

    "The fact of the matter is that your muscles deal only with force-production requirements, which, in turn, are determined by the resistance to which the muscles are exposed - whether that resistance comes in the form of a free weight, a Nautilus machine, or a bucket of rocks. The scientific literature backs this up: according to the few properly performed studies that measured the effects of free weights versus machines, both are equally effective... since machines are safer and at least as efficient as free weights at stimulating muscles, we see no upside to taking a risk that isn't required".
    Scientific literature does NOT back this up. It does in regards to primary driver, but we don't exercise only to stimulate primary drivers now do we... Not to mention the benefits primal movement patterns get from free weights vs machines..
  • Jynus
    Jynus Posts: 519 Member
    there is zero reason to use machines outside of bodybuilding or rehab.

    I usually work out ALONE at 5:30 in the morning in my home. I do not go to a gym, I do not have a partner and I do not have a trainer. So, for me to bench press alone would be VERY IRRESPONSIBLE. There are times when machines ARE safer and do have a place in your training. By doing the types of exercises that are not safe without a spotter, you can still get the benefits and avoid the risks... with a machine. I use both and there is a place for both. JMO.
    the problems with people like you is you're looking for ways to not do something rather than ways to do something.

    Sooo, you can use dumbells. problem solved outright.

    But if you really want to use barbells, you have a few options. You can not lock the ends of the barbells, then if you fail, just tip it to the side, and voila, plates fall off and you live to lift another day.

    Thats worst case scenario. Alternately you can use a squat rack, adjust the bars to catch the barbell, then you're good to go period. Or just straight up build a bench cage.

    there is no place for both. My point stands. Free weights > machines period.
  • Laces_0ut
    Laces_0ut Posts: 3,750 Member
    there is zero reason to use machines outside of bodybuilding or rehab.

    I usually work out ALONE at 5:30 in the morning in my home. I do not go to a gym, I do not have a partner and I do not have a trainer. So, for me to bench press alone would be VERY IRRESPONSIBLE. There are times when machines ARE safer and do have a place in your training. By doing the types of exercises that are not safe without a spotter, you can still get the benefits and avoid the risks... with a machine. I use both and there is a place for both. JMO.

    use dumbbells. i lift heavy and never need a spotter... cant get the rep up? just drop the dumbbells to your sides.
  • aakaakaak
    aakaakaak Posts: 1,240 Member
    Generally I prefer machines to free weights.

    (OH MY GAWD! HE'S AN IDIOT!)

    Hear me out, please.

    With a series of weight machines you can move from one machine with one purpose to another. You have a direction and a focus that's simple. It doesn't require much thought to execute a bench press on a bench press machine.

    Theoretical free-weight conversation that goes on in my head:
    Trainer: With free weights you can do anything.
    Newbie: Anything?
    Trainer: Anything.
    Newbie: What should I do?
    Trainer: Whatever you want.
    Newbie: I don't know what I want. I just want to get fit!
    Trainer: Then you should come back when you know what you want.
    Newbie: Okay. Goodbye then. I'll come back about...never.

    I know there are people who can help, but the process tends to be more intricate and mentally involved than simply bouncing through a few machines. There is a personal science involved. It has always intimidated me.

    There's also the muscleheads that see how scrawny you are and choose to tell you how poorly you're doing certain exercises, even when you're doing them correctly. So I tend to just stay away from free weights even though I know they're "better".
  • DopeItUp
    DopeItUp Posts: 18,771 Member
    there is zero reason to use machines outside of bodybuilding or rehab.

    I usually work out ALONE at 5:30 in the morning in my home. I do not go to a gym, I do not have a partner and I do not have a trainer. So, for me to bench press alone would be VERY IRRESPONSIBLE. There are times when machines ARE safer and do have a place in your training. By doing the types of exercises that are not safe without a spotter, you can still get the benefits and avoid the risks... with a machine. I use both and there is a place for both. JMO.
    the problems with people like you is you're looking for ways to not do something rather than ways to do something.

    Sooo, you can use dumbells. problem solved outright.

    But if you really want to use barbells, you have a few options. You can not lock the ends of the barbells, then if you fail, just tip it to the side, and voila, plates fall off and you live to lift another day.

    Thats worst case scenario. Alternately you can use a squat rack, adjust the bars to catch the barbell, then you're good to go period. Or just straight up build a bench cage.

    there is no place for both. My point stands. Free weights > machines period.

    You can also get those pillars of power that you can place on the sides of your bench to catch the bar. Don't even need a whole power rack if you can't afford one or fit one.

    But as you alluded to, it's basically all excuses. You can do just about any exercise alone while still being safe.
  • KateP6531
    KateP6531 Posts: 2
    Free weights require more continuous use of your core muscles. With that in mind, I recommend kettle bells. A great place to start would be to read 'Enter the Kettlebell' by Pavel. After reading this you can determine if you are up for it. The strength training is amazing. You'll feel muscles you've never used before. Many of the Marines I served with use this type of exercise. You can do this work out at home, in a park, at a gym or where ever suits you.

    Best of luck to you!
  • jspitz1
    jspitz1 Posts: 3
    Free weights.
  • joconnor09
    joconnor09 Posts: 124
    Machines are good to start with. They make sure you're using the right technique. But once you've got the technique down, free weights will be more effective since you're using more muscles to stabilize your body and keep proper form.
  • Jynus
    Jynus Posts: 519 Member
    Generally I prefer machines to free weights.

    (OH MY GAWD! HE'S AN IDIOT!)

    Hear me out, please.

    With a series of weight machines you can move from one machine with one purpose to another. You have a direction and a focus that's simple. It doesn't require much thought to execute a bench press on a bench press machine.

    Theoretical free-weight conversation that goes on in my head:
    Trainer: With free weights you can do anything.
    Newbie: Anything?
    Trainer: Anything.
    Newbie: What should I do?
    Trainer: Whatever you want.
    Newbie: I don't know what I want. I just want to get fit!
    Trainer: Then you should come back when you know what you want.
    Newbie: Okay. Goodbye then. I'll come back about...never.

    I know there are people who can help, but the process tends to be more intricate and mentally involved than simply bouncing through a few machines. There is a personal science involved. It has always intimidated me.

    There's also the muscleheads that see how scrawny you are and choose to tell you how poorly you're doing certain exercises, even when you're doing them correctly. So I tend to just stay away from free weights even though I know they're "better".
    Thats the issue. When the body pushes, or squats, or pulls, or twists, it's a free motion. It's biomechanical. There is a reason most every tall emt has back problems, or short emt has knee problems. they don't know how to properly move their body, and **** themselves up from lifting from their job.

    Using machines does NOT fix this because you're using the MACHINES motion planes rather than your bodies biomechanical ones. This is straight up why free weights are better. Because you're teaching your body how to properly do movements that you can never learn on machines.
  • Jynus
    Jynus Posts: 519 Member
    Machines are good to start with. They make sure you're using the right technique. But once you've got the technique down, free weights will be more effective since you're using more muscles to stabilize your body and keep proper form.
    Just the opposite actually.
  • monty619
    monty619 Posts: 1,308 Member
    free weights> weight machines

    dumbells>barbells

    compound lifts> isolation lifts

    HIIT>LISS

    Running outside>Stairmaster>Treadmil>Eliptical

    6 meals a day>IF

    Carbs>No Carbs

    ...my opinion on stuff like this.
  • Vonwarr
    Vonwarr Posts: 390 Member
    Generally I prefer machines to free weights.

    (OH MY GAWD! HE'S AN IDIOT!)

    Hear me out, please.

    With a series of weight machines you can move from one machine with one purpose to another. You have a direction and a focus that's simple. It doesn't require much thought to execute a bench press on a bench press machine.

    Theoretical free-weight conversation that goes on in my head:
    Trainer: With free weights you can do anything.
    Newbie: Anything?
    Trainer: Anything.
    Newbie: What should I do?
    Trainer: Whatever you want.
    Newbie: I don't know what I want. I just want to get fit!
    Trainer: Then you should come back when you know what you want.
    Newbie: Okay. Goodbye then. I'll come back about...never.

    I know there are people who can help, but the process tends to be more intricate and mentally involved than simply bouncing through a few machines. There is a personal science involved. It has always intimidated me.

    There's also the muscleheads that see how scrawny you are and choose to tell you how poorly you're doing certain exercises, even when you're doing them correctly. So I tend to just stay away from free weights even though I know they're "better".

    If you talk to a trainer who answers like that, you shouldn't go back. Go find a trainer that will actually help you define your goals - "I want to be stronger" or "I want to look better" or "I want to fix this imbalance in my body/recover from injury" or "I want to lose body fat and/or increase muscle mass". All relatively common goals that will give a good trainer a solid starting point. The best trainers will spend a few sessions working to discover what type of program best suits your goals and preferences.

    As far as muscleheads, you can do one of two things: Ignore them, or ask them how you could improve. You might learn something useful. :)
  • KinzieElise
    KinzieElise Posts: 584 Member
    I personally have enjoyed free weights since I took weights class in high school for 3 years. It always seemed like a better workout. However, I will say that weight machines have their advantages as well, such as not needing a spotter which was drilled into my head during high school as a must for free weights.
  • LiftHuff
    LiftHuff Posts: 131
    Machines are good to start with. They make sure you're using the right technique. But once you've got the technique down, free weights will be more effective since you're using more muscles to stabilize your body and keep proper form.
    Just the opposite actually.

    To echo someone else with regards to this, the above issue is actually probably the second biggest reason why free weights are superior to machines. A machine locks you into a specific range of motion that is wholly arbitrary, opening you up for potential joint and connective tissue injury due to IMPROPER form for your body.
  • MDWilliams1857
    MDWilliams1857 Posts: 315 Member
    there is zero reason to use machines outside of bodybuilding or rehab.

    I usually work out ALONE at 5:30 in the morning in my home. I do not go to a gym, I do not have a partner and I do not have a trainer. So, for me to bench press alone would be VERY IRRESPONSIBLE. There are times when machines ARE safer and do have a place in your training. By doing the types of exercises that are not safe without a spotter, you can still get the benefits and avoid the risks... with a machine. I use both and there is a place for both. JMO.


    I work out alone too. What I do is leave off the end caps. If I get to a point where I cant lift the weights up to rack them, I just tilt the bar to the side and the weights slide off. No spotter needed.
  • LCgymnast
    LCgymnast Posts: 258
    I think both are the same, but I prefer doing free weights versus the machines.
  • crazy_ninja
    crazy_ninja Posts: 387 Member
    Wondering which is the "better" one to utilize? I feel that I read/hear so much more about using free weights, but I stick to the machines at the gym right now....

    Who cares? There is no better or worst. Even if you just train with your bodyweight its cool!
  • DeathKitty23
    DeathKitty23 Posts: 64 Member
    With free weights you tend to have to work harder to stabalize and utilise all of the muscle (some machines tend to let people work with half reps)
    But there are advantages to machines too for instance they help support you or allow you to hit muscles in different ways (using cable machines is always a good way to get at it from a different angle)
    I would use a mix but agin this also depends on your current fitness state and personal circumstances. For instance I have a friend with tendonitis who has to use machines to allow for the extra suppoort and the fail safe if he has to drop the wieght.
    xx
  • MrsLVF
    MrsLVF Posts: 787 Member
    there is zero reason to use machines outside of bodybuilding or rehab.

    I usually work out ALONE at 5:30 in the morning in my home. I do not go to a gym, I do not have a partner and I do not have a trainer. So, for me to bench press alone would be VERY IRRESPONSIBLE. There are times when machines ARE safer and do have a place in your training. By doing the types of exercises that are not safe without a spotter, you can still get the benefits and avoid the risks... with a machine. I use both and there is a place for both. JMO.

    I guess I'm living on the edge. I bench at home without a spotter.
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
    there is zero reason to use machines outside of bodybuilding or rehab.

    I usually work out ALONE at 5:30 in the morning in my home. I do not go to a gym, I do not have a partner and I do not have a trainer. So, for me to bench press alone would be VERY IRRESPONSIBLE. There are times when machines ARE safer and do have a place in your training. By doing the types of exercises that are not safe without a spotter, you can still get the benefits and avoid the risks... with a machine. I use both and there is a place for both. JMO.
    I guess I'm living on the edge. I bench at home without a spotter.
    You wild thing, you.
  • Deipneus
    Deipneus Posts: 1,861 Member
    I don't care what you use so if you are looking for an argument, I'm not taking the bait. It's like arguing with a wine snob who will never agree that California wine is any good. I'll state my case for the benefit of anyone who wants a different opinion.

    Some weight machines are better than others. Nautilus machines, especially older Nautilus machines are best in my opinion. The cams allow for the fact that your muscles have varying degrees of strength at different position. If interested in a different opinion, see the web address at the bottom. If you don't want a different opinion that's fine too. Free weights are good, it's just that in my study and experience, I don't see any advantages and see some disadvantages.

    http://www.maxcontraction.com/body2.htm
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
    I don't care what you use so if you are looking for an argument, I'm not taking the bait. It's like arguing with a wine snob who will never agree that California wine is any good. I'll state my case for the benefit of anyone who wants a different opinion.

    Some weight machines are better than others. Nautilus machines, especially older Nautilus machines are best in my opinion. The cams allow for the fact that your muscles have varying degrees of strength at different position interested, see the web address at the bottom. If you don't want a different opinion that's fine too. Free weights are fine, in my study and experience, I just don't see any advantages and see some disadvantages.

    http://www.maxcontraction.com/body2.htm
    Again, because machines don't work the stabilizing muscles properly, only the main driver muscles.
  • slrrese
    slrrese Posts: 180 Member
    While free weights may be better than machines, machines are better than nothing! Personally, I have a home gym with a bike, a treadmill, a weight machine, ankle weights and dumbells. I also do calistenics and pole dance. I soon will be getting a weight bar as well. Doing what works for you and your life style as well as what you enjoy will encourage you to keep doing it, which is WAY better than lifting nothing. I like the variety of doing lots of different things and that works for me. Just lift whatever you feel comfortable starting with and try a variety of things...you will find what works for you best when you keep at it.
  • Determinednoob
    Determinednoob Posts: 2,001 Member
    Ask the biggest and strongest naturals how they got that way. Case closed?
  • ahamm002
    ahamm002 Posts: 1,690 Member
    This is a contentious point but I'll wade right in. I'll quote from Dr. Doug McGuff, an E.R. doc and personal trainer of many years:

    "The fact of the matter is that your muscles deal only with force-production requirements, which, in turn, are determined by the resistance to which the muscles are exposed - whether that resistance comes in the form of a free weight, a Nautilus machine, or a bucket of rocks. The scientific literature backs this up: according to the few properly performed studies that measured the effects of free weights versus machines, both are equally effective... since machines are safer and at least as efficient as free weights at stimulating muscles, we see no upside to taking a risk that isn't required".

    This was a contentious point back in 1970, but it really isn't anymore. Yes you can get great results from free weights. However, the vast majority of the literature has demonstrated that free weights are superior to Nautilus machines.
  • ahamm002
    ahamm002 Posts: 1,690 Member
    Some weight machines are better than others. Nautilus machines, especially older Nautilus machines are best in my opinion. The cams allow for the fact that your muscles have varying degrees of strength at different position. If interested in a different opinion, see the web address at the bottom. If you don't want a different opinion that's fine too. Free weights are good, it's just that in my study and experience, I don't see any advantages and see some disadvantages.

    http://www.maxcontraction.com/body2.htm

    Seriously? This Arthur Ashe garbage was debunked decades ago!
  • mfpcopine
    mfpcopine Posts: 3,093 Member
    With free weights you tend to have to work harder to stabalize and utilise all of the muscle (some machines tend to let people work with half reps)
    But there are advantages to machines too for instance they help support you or allow you to hit muscles in different ways (using cable machines is always a good way to get at it from a different angle)
    I would use a mix but agin this also depends on your current fitness state and personal circumstances. For instance I have a friend with tendonitis who has to use machines to allow for the extra suppoort and the fail safe if he has to drop the wieght.
    xx

    Exactly. And as someone else said, some people wouldn't be safe using certain free weights without a spotter. The machine is a safer option. But a mix is good.
  • Leadfoot_Lewis
    Leadfoot_Lewis Posts: 1,623 Member
    Exactly. And as someone else said, some people wouldn't be safe using certain free weights without a spotter. The machine is a safer option. But a mix is good.

    I would bet that most people who are so gung-ho on machines don't even lift weight anywhere close to needing a spotter anyway.

    What "certain free weights" are unsafe without a spotter???

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