Alcohol

Dom_m · February 2010

How do people deal with alcohol?

I'm from Aus (don't know if that's relevant but...) and I regularly drink socially, say twice a week? If I'm out for 2 hours I might have 4-6 beers (600-750 calories). If its a longer night, its more. One of the first things I did was make one meal 'alcohol' so I can see the total calories from that each day.

Last night I had 5 beers, 1 shot of black sambuca, and 6 shots of scotch. Total: 1234 calories.

I also had 3 slices of vego pizza for 632 calories at about midnight.

Net calories for the day was 2758 - by far my highest since I started tracking. The only 3 times I've been over my goal have been drinking nights. I've actually been drinking a lot less alcohol and a lot more water over the last 25 days (since I started with MFP) which is great and I feel better. But my friends still expect regular drinking sessions and I like it too.

How do people find a balance? If I know I might get 1,000 calories of alcohol in an evening and I want to prepare, is it ok to eat my target and then count alcohol calories against exercise?

Thanks!

dolce7vita · February 2010

If you really want to lose weight, you just have to stop drinking as much. I personally haven't stopped drinking, but I go with red wine. I think beer has more calories than other kinds of alcohol- so maybe you could switch? Also remember that the bigger problem with alcohol isn't always the calories and fat in it itself, its the fact that alcohol: 1. makes you eat more, and usually eat more BAD things, and 2. makes you bloated, which causes unnecessary weight gain. I personally balance it by not drinking as much, and by not drinking as often. If your alcohol description is typical, it looks like you could probably scale back a bit on what you are drinking, and it would definitely help some. Good luck!

SHBoss1673 · February 2010

OK, you asked, you're probably not going to like what I have to say, but that's life I guess.

Look, it all comes down to how badly you want to live a new, healthy lifestyle. I'm not going to preach on the evils of alcohol. Suffice to say, alcohol is a poison, it's bad for the body, and REALLY bad for people trying to lose weight or become healthy. That doesn't mean you can never drink, it just means that the more you DO drink, the harder weight loss will probably become. Seriously, I feel that drinking that much (don't kid yourself, drinking 4 to 6 drinks in 1 sitting is a lot, no matter who you are) is going to be a problem for your health eventually. That said, doing that once every couple of weeks probably won't cause too much of an issue, but doing that multiple times in one week, that's probably going to give you real problems, especially as you approach a healthy weight.

Again, I'm not telling you to stop drinking, but I'll say this definitively, drinking more than 1 or 2 drinks multiple times a week WILL retard your progress. The choice is of course yours, again, the question is, is altering your lifestyle to drink less often, and less at each sitting an option for you? If your answer is no, then you must realize that your health will be one of the down sides to it.

deedeehawaii · February 2010

We each need to make our own choices about the foods and lifestyle we want to lead. But for me, well, I cannot see how 4-6 beers + scotch would fit into my healthy lifestyle choices. For you, it might be a matter of needing to set your priorities. Just what are you trying to accomplish in your life regarding your health and diet, and does excessive alcohol intake fit in?

You ask how do I deal with alcohol? For me, I am trying to lose the pounds that I want in the quickest way I can, but at a safe and reasonable pace. The calories from alcohol just don't fit in, or rather, I treat an occasional glass of wine as a treat. I don't want to be dragging out my weight loss by adding in a bunch of empty calories from alcohol.

Good luck on your weight loss, think of your "overall health" and that might help with choices. :flowerforyou:

FrenchMob · February 2010

If you're serious about getting healthy, then drop the alcohol. Thinking that just counting calories of the beer you drink is all you have to is a mistake. Alcohol has to be dealt with by the liver. If the liver is busy trying to detox your blood, then it can't metabolize fat at the same time, well not efficiently anyhow. So that will slow your fat loss drastically.

Want balance? Go out once a week and have 1-2 beer. You're still going out and having beers, just a little less. Like everything else you put in your mouth, moderation is key.

ultraviolet29 · February 2010

I simply gave up alcohol, i know being from Oz is gonna be harder they make fosters after all :P but i found that i couldn't go out and just have 1 or 2, i would want to keep up with my friends, meaning that i was still the "fat one" I would have pints, shots anything i could get my hands on so the easiest way for me to reach my goal was to stop.

My friends all understand that its just until i get to my goal weight and can control it more, i went out last week, my friends were all drinking and i did feel jealous, but i still danced the night away and no one noticed i was sober, i also woke up the next day not craving junk which was brilliant. My hardest tests are going to be the rugby six nations and the football world cup but i'll still try.

If you dont want to give up alcohol, i wouldnt really advise skipping meals for it, just lower your intake gradually, you may take longer to reach your goal but you'll be doing it healthier. As for the pizza, make a healthier option before you go so that you know you have food left for you so you dont need to eat junk after you've been out.

Good luck =]

jaycee76 · February 2010

Last night I had 5 beers, 1 shot of black sambuca, and 6 shots of scotch. Total: 1234 calories.

:noway:

Sorry if I offend but that is an obscene amount of alcohol never mind the calories!!!!!!!!

carinrogo · February 2010

If you're not ready to give it up or cut back a lot on the days you want to go out for a few, plan ahead. If I know that I'm going out that night, I exercise a bit harder early in the day & eat very healthy meals with few calories. Then I can see how many calories I have left for the day & I kind of pre-plan how many drinks fit into that. & drink a lot of water during the day & some at night before you stumble into bed :-)
It's worked for me twice with no junk-food-craving hangovers like I used to get. And I'm still losing weight...
Good luck! :-)

carinrogo · February 2010

Sometimes you'll retain water for a couple of days, but it will pass if you watch your salt intake & keep drinking that water :-)

bambi5014 · February 2010

I used to binge drink once a week... way more than you! (not proud of it, but I can relate to you). I switched from beer to ONE glass of wine, maybe two... if its champagne OR I order diet soda with rum or vodka, vodka tonic or even sugar free redbull with vodka. Maybe you could find an alternative low-calorie beer, if giving up beer completely is not an option yet. And its best if you can stick to one or two drinks. I'm sorry to report, that I have been at this a month, and the nights I do drink with friends, totally sets me back and I have been gaining 1 - 1.5 lbs. back and then it takes me almost all week to lose that! So not worth it!!! For now, I have to agree, that alcohol should be given up completely until you have reached your first weight-loss goal, then maybe you could have a night of celebrating and still, like food, consumed only in MODERATION. Good luck! I know this is sucky news, but its so true and this is an entirely new way of living! You can do it!!

bambi5014 · February 2010

I simply gave up alcohol, i know being from Oz is gonna be harder they make fosters after all :P but i found that i couldn't go out and just have 1 or 2, i would want to keep up with my friends, meaning that i was still the "fat one" I would have pints, shots anything i could get my hands on so the easiest way for me to reach my goal was to stop.

My dad actually works in Australia and says the locals don't drink Foster's at all, nor is it heavily advertised where he is at.

Dom_m · February 2010

I should clarify. Since I started with MFP I've only drunk alcohol 3 times (25 days). Last night was the only one of those three when I drank enough to be drunk. The comment about 1-2 times / week really applies to before MFP (I was fortunate enough to start using it on a Friday, so got a bit of a shock when I went to the bar).

SHBoss, you must be one of the most patient people in the world. After posting this, I realised this topic has probably come up before, so went back and found quite the decent discussion on it (including much from you).

Cheers.

(ps. Bambi's right - I've only ever drunk Fosters in the UK, but export quality fosters tastes the same as pretty normal beer here).

Dom_m · February 2010

Last night I had 5 beers, 1 shot of black sambuca, and 6 shots of scotch. Total: 1234 calories.

:noway:

Sorry if I offend but that is an obscene amount of alcohol never mind the calories!!!!!!!!

No offense taken. I completely agree with you, which is why I wrote it in the post. I certainly don't do that on a regular basis.

bukozki · February 2010

I simply gave up alcohol, i know being from Oz is gonna be harder they make fosters after all :P but i found that i couldn't go out and just have 1 or 2, i would want to keep up with my friends, meaning that i was still the "fat one" I would have pints, shots anything i could get my hands on so the easiest way for me to reach my goal was to stop.

My dad actually works in Australia and says the locals don't drink Foster's at all, nor is it heavily advertised where he is at.

That's mostly because Foster's is a terrible beer. Hardly the worst, but not really anything that would hold back a diet. I wouldn't break a fast for a can of Foster's.

That said, from someone who is managing an alcohol issue, like food I tend to drink until I'm full... or drunk. That can present some calorie counting issues, as mentioned. I don't think you should give up drinking though. Unlike food, I'd say front load your drinking, get drunk quicker if that's your goal and spare yourself the hours of session style drinking. I personally prefer higher ABV (Alcohol by volume) beers, they tend to fall into the craft brew category. They tend to be higher in calories, but they balance it out by being higher in alcohol, they also tend to be more sip-able and therefore less chug-able. So those give you a few options, drink quickly and get drunk quickly without filling yourself up, or sip slowly and get the same effect from potentially fewer calories.

A few head to head comparisons courtesy of MFP and BeerAdvocate.

Bud Light
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/29/1320/

Style: Adjunct Lager
Rating: D-
Serving Size: 12 Oz
Calories 110
ABV: 4.2%

Pabst Blue Ribbon
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/447/1331

Style: Adjunct Lager
Rating: C
Serving Size: 12 Oz
Calories 153
ABV: 4.74%

And because you're Australian...

Foster's

Style: Adjunct Lager
Rating: C-
Serving Size: 12 Oz
Calories: 193
ABV: 5%

Now let's make a mixed drink to compare...

Webtender.com provides these mixes...

Rum and Coke (4 Oz and 8 Oz) ((Optimistic pour at a bar, but you get the idea))
We're using Captain Morgan (30% ABV), because he was practically begging...

So 4 Oz of Captain is 240 Calories, diluted with 8 Oz of Coke at 105 Calories, or Diet which adds 0 Calories but probably contains some sort of astringent, leaving you with a 12 Oz serving diluted to 10% ABV at 240-345 Calories. That's assuming you get a full 4 ounces of booze and 8 ounces of Coke in your glass. Bars tend to go heavy on the ice because it's cheap, but the good news is that ice is calorie free. You're probably looking at getting something closer to 2 Oz of Rum and 8 Oz of Coke (multiplied proportionately to fill 12 Oz glass for direct comparison) which comes out to a 270 or 144 (Diet) Calories for a drink weighing in at 6% alcohol.

So, optimistically you're getting a much better deal than your typical lager beers, and realistically you're getting a marginally better calorie to buzz ratio.

Now take a look at some higher ABV Beers...

Founder's Backwoods *kitten*
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/1199/35036

Style: Scotch Ale/Wee Heavy
Rating: A-
Serving: 12 Oz
Calories: 280
ABV: 10.2%

Dogifish Head 90 Minute Indian Pale Ale

Style: Imperial Indian Pale Ale
Rating: A
Serving: 12 Oz
Calories: 230
ABV: 9%

La Fin Du Monde

Style: Belgian Triple
Rating: A
Serving: 12 Oz
Calories: 225
ABV: 9%

I think the math is clear. You pay in calories for higher alcohol, but if you choose your drinks wisely (and based on their ABV) you can get to where your going without wrecking your whole week.

Think of it this way

Dogfishhead 120 Minute IPA

Style: Imperial IPA
Rating: B+
Serving: 12 Oz
Calories: 450
ABV: Varies 18%-25% (Generally assumed to be 20%-21%)

You could drink 12 Oz of beer at 450 Calories and get the same amount of alcohol (assuming 20%): 5 Bud Lights (60 Oz, 550 Calories), about 4 PBRs or Foster's (48 Oz, 612, 772 Calories respectively), 2 well made Captain and Cokes (24 Oz, 480 (Diet) or 690 Calories), or just over 3 Captain and Cokes that you might expect from a bar (36 Oz, 433(diet) or 810 Calories).

Do some math and do it before you get wasted. My advice, get in there, get drunk, ride the wave and don't fill yourself up on terrible drinks. Make sure you're getting quality of taste and quality of impact.

sissy56 · February 2010

All the posts saying to give it up are right. Having said that, dang, it's hard.

kimberlygo · February 2010

Alternate. One beer, one diet soda, one beer, on diet soda.

bukozki · February 2010

Switch to Cocaine or Speed or E. They aren't "healthy" but Cocaine raises your heart-rate and Meth is made with cough syrup--that's medicine. Think about it.

smae1980 · February 2010

An average six pack of beer contains about your entire calories for the day. I love beer, but I can't drink regularly and lose weight so I quit drinking for the time being. I feel great. Even if I didn't drink enough to get drunk, I always felt sluggish and lazy the day after i had drinks, which isn't what you want if you need to be focusing on calorie choices and exercise. Good luck I hope you come to a conclusion that works well for you!

Dom_m · February 2010

Bukozki, I like your style. Get drunk quick and switch to diet coke can definitely work. Unfortunately non-alcoholic drugs aren't really part of my social scene in this town, so that can't be part of a regular solution.

On the other hand, tonight was a welcome back for one mate and farewell for another. 1 very nice vodka and 1 Russian beer with a diet coke at the end was enough for the night. I think I'm getting old enough not to really want the extra drinks - the trouble is when I hang out with people who do, and they always buy jugs. I've started the habit of getting jugs of water (about 1 liter) and drinking all of it (no one else touches the water) for every 8-10 ounces of beer. If nothing else, the frequency of using the bathroom slows down the amount you can drink in a set amount of time

deedeehawaii · February 2010

If someone posted on this site that they wanted to lose weight, but had a hard time staying out of Ben & Jerry's with their friends and ordering icecream after icecream after icecream, we'd be all over them with the suggestion to "turn down the invitation". The same applies here to drinking excess calories.

I'm going to bluntly suggest that Dom stay out of the bars, even if that means he cannot hang out with his drinking buddies, and to instead concentrate on developing some lifelong habits that will enable him to lose his excess weight and keep it off. Otherwise, just face up to wanting to DRINK more than wanting to get healthier and lose weight. IMHO.

We each make our own choices. But once you choose, don't whine (no pun intented) about not making progress or not being happy with the results. If you want to drink all those extra calories, go for it. But do it as choice that you are willing to face up to. "I'd rather drink than lose weight".

IMHO. Peace and health to all.

bukozki · February 2010

Ice cream is good, but it won't get you drunk: fact.

red01angel · February 2010

I feel your pain Dom_m, I love to drink...excessively too...like I could easily down 2 bottles of wine by myself AND have a few shots at a party.
I found there's no easy solution to the answer you've asked. It's either a) learn some self-control and moderate your drinking b) quit drinking or c) don't lose weight. I chose A, and while it's been difficult, I've learned to nurse my drinks and stay away from the calorie laden sweet shots that I used to do.
Granted, it may be easier for a woman to moderate herself since there's no king-of-the-bar, i-can-drink-more-than-you male ego competition involved, but it's better than nothing.
Oh, and the drug thing...I know it was a joke, but STAY AWAY. Bad, bad news.

Edited because I can't spell.

msarro · February 2010

I drink socially 2-3 times a week. I don't plan to stop, I enjoy it, its healthy, and its fun. So, what I've started doing is getting drinks that are more considered "sipping drinks" and setting myself a limit money wise (usually 15-20$). A 15$ glass of scotch that I sip all evening lets me enjoy my night, gets me buzzed, ends up costing less than if I kept getting drinks all night, and its not bad calorie wise (1oz is about 70 calories). If I drink something else, I usually limit myself to one drink - a must because I like creamy drinks (brandy alexanders, grasshoppers, etc). Basically just one or two drinks unless its a super special occasion (in which case I won't count calories anyways).

laurabelle25 · February 2010

Ice cream is good, but it won't get you drunk: fact.

I freakin' LOVE that! I actually just LOL at my desk. thanks for making my afternoon!

And Dom-I love to drink too. I grew up in a huge alcohol-loving family, and my college days were definitely spent having plenty of 'good times' at the local bars. I love beer. I love wine. I love margaritas. And i'm not ashamed to admit it. I also want to get healthier and lose weight. So i do like someone else said and just exercise harder that day and eat a little leaner, to make up for the drinks i'm going to have that night.

And BTW-to all those people that think drinking is just 'oh, so terrible for your health': My grandfather has been drinking for basically 75 years or more. And continues to drink, sometimes even 3 times a week. And he still can get out on the golf course, play a full round, and beat most of the 60 year olds out there. AND HE'S 93! So obviously drinking occasionally isn't all that bad.

Just my 2 cents.
Laura

bukozki · February 2010

I freakin' LOVE that! I actually just LOL at my desk. thanks for making my afternoon!

That's why I make the big bucks.

MissKim · February 2010

I go out every friday night and have several drinks. I get off work and go straight to the gym! I burn 600-800 calories on the elliptical and then go home and get ready! I usually drink vodka and cranberry or pineapple, but I'm going to switch to something diet, maybe sugar free red bull. Sometimes I dance all night (burns lots of calories!) and sometimes I don't. But either way I'm still losing weight. It is possible. We are on here learning how to enjoy things in moderation. Not completely cut all bad foods out of our diet!! We are fat because of the excess we drink or eat. As long as you are counting calories and account for what you are drinking and eating, you will be just fine

I wouldn't do a replay of that specific night though! pizza and alcohol?? in the same night?? maybe try a lighter food and keep your calories lower during the day!

I also have friends that drink a glass of wine a night (i don't like wine!) and they have lost alot of weight!!! Alcohol is healthy in moderation. That has been proven.

btw - working out right before going out gives me lots of energy!!!!

and i'm not trying to offend anyone, just sharing my own experiences

SHBoss1673 · February 2010

Ok so, here's the thing about the "1 glass of wine a day" thing.

It's not beneficial BECAUSE of the alcohol, it's beneficial (this is the theory at least) in spite of the alcohol. It's because wine has anti-oxidants in it which are good for cholesterol and the cardio-pulmonary system.

Put it this way, if you could, instead, drink non-alcoholic wine, or eat a few servings of blueberries every day instead (keeping in mind the sugar) that would be far better.

There's NO way to sugar coat it, alcohol is poison, over time it destroys your liver, your kidneys, your brain, your lungs, and your intestines. THESE ARE MEDICAL FACTS, they aren't opinions, they aren't myths, they are truths. How badly you are affected depends on genetics, body type, body size, and amount of alcohol you consume.

I'm not talking about standoff affect alcohol has on the metabolism (which is what delays your weight loss), nor am I talking about the psychological affects of drinking alcohol (reducing inhibitions which basically impairs your ability to make good food choices) or the dehydrating affects of alcohol, which can be damaging the day of and the day after drinking. Those are all extra little kicks in the *kitten* that make is super bad.

rubyredrage · February 2010

There's been some good suggestions on here, personally since I started trying to lose weight I have tried to limit going out, when I do I drink vodka and diet coke, and also do what msarro does - set a budget!

If I'm going out I work out that day, save up all my exercise calories and calculate how many drinks I can have within those calories, take out enough money for those drinks (and a taxi) and leave my atm and credit card at home. It gives you very few other options unless you want to be a scab

I"m from Oz too and I feel your pain, I'm sure you declining pub offers wil result in massive stirring from your mates (it's happening to me too!). What I'm doing is organizing to meet my friends somewhere a little later, and telling them I have to do something else later so I can only stay for a little while. You get a few drinks in, see your mates, then leave early without the peer pressure to stay on and get trashed.

Hope that helps!

deedeehawaii · February 2010

And BTW-to all those people that think drinking is just 'oh, so terrible for your health': My grandfather has been drinking for basically 75 years or more. And continues to drink, sometimes even 3 times a week. And he still can get out on the golf course, play a full round, and beat most of the 60 year olds out there. AND HE'S 93! So obviously drinking occasionally isn't all that bad.

It is good that your grandpa is doing well. We should all be so lucky at 93. Uh huh, anadotal stories are fine to tell, but I'd not bet my health on them. I can give you page after page of anadotal stories about drinking and smoking and drug use "not being harmful to grandpa", but those stories do not mean those are healthful habits. Meanwhile, I think one of the main themes of this thread has been that drinking takes a toll on weight loss efforts. Yes, health is a definite consideration, but more topical is on the main focus of weight loss, and that the excess calories of heavy drinking will have a negative effect on weight loss. That is a fact. Thankfully, everyone gets to make their own choices. Here is wishing success to all in their goals.

ultraviolet29 · February 2010

.

xonophone · February 2010

Just want to chime in my $.02 here because cutting down on alcohol has been surprisingly hard for me too - which has led me to really think about this issue a lot, but that is not for a discussion here! My drink of choice is vodka with club soda, and when I measured how much I was pouring into a class I was easlity drinking 3 ozs per drink, and having 2-3 a night. Inspite of being a highly active person and eating healthy foods, I still managed to gain 20 pounds in the last 7 years, and I blame alcohol for that. Now I'm counting my calories and cutting down on the booze, which has undoubtedly been the hardest part. I have tried a variety of ways to cut down, and so far the best compensation strategies I have found are

1)I have about 6 liters of zero calorie beverages on hand. They are lightly carbonated and sweetened with splenda, and I pour them over ice into my cocktail glass with a twist, so it gives me the illusion that I'm having a cocktail.

Strangely, it works really well! That keeps me away from it during the week. And say what you want to about the harmful effects of carbonated bevvies and artificial sweeteners, I'm sure I'm doing less damage to myself with them than I would with vodka.

2) Then on the weekends, I measure 2 ozs into my glass for each drink, and as I sip I top it off with extra club soda to stretch it out. But here's the best part: after not drinking all week I find my tolerance is actually down and I end of only having 2 1/2 cocktails (the half is the third drink I pour but don't manage to finish). So yes, that means I'm wasting alcohol it's better than wasting my liver. And having 40% less alcohol on a Saturday night.

3) I brush my teeth right after dinner. I don't know why but I just can't bring myself to eat or drink anything when I have a nice minty fresh mouth :bigsmile:

4) lifestyle changes. I've always been an active person, but I wouldn't get to the gym, hit the slopes, ride my bike, etc until after noon,. Now I make plans to hit an early morning aerobic class, meet friends early in the morning for a hike with our dogs, carpool with my early morning rising friends to the ski areas....whatever it takes to make sure I don't overdo it the night before and spend ...or rather waste most of the day hungover.

Now I don't know how old you are, but I am 40, and partying with friends doesn't have the same priority that it did in my prior 2 decades. I find that I can go out and drink less when I'm with them, in fact most of my new friends don't even drink. Nor does my husband, and on some level I think that is one of the reasons why I started dating him in the first place. If you are sincere about your desire to cut down to help you lose weight, than it really does require lifestyle changes and a lot of willpower. Good luck and keep us posted!

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