Yet Another "I'm Stuck" Thread New and Improved with data!

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Replies

  • iAMsmiling
    iAMsmiling Posts: 2,394 Member
    @gauchomark

    I haven't been recording body fat %. My scale does read body fat, but I've never set it up or figured how to use it. I guess I should.
  • iAMsmiling
    iAMsmiling Posts: 2,394 Member
    Can't get your body fat % without waist measurement (at navel). I can tell you that if you were only moderately active, you would be burning 3066 calories a day. (exercising 3-5 days a week). Your base rate for organ function is 1978. So you have to eat at least that to survive. If you want to lose weight, you can knock 10% off your total daily energy expenditure (3066-306=2760 calories) and you should see some results there.

    Related note: On your food diary, I looked solely at sodium intake. The highest recommended intake per day is 2500. There are a lot of days (not all, but quite a few in the last two weeks) where you are up around 3200. That will cause water retention. That can account for around seven pounds of weight.

    I notice you eat a kashi bar and a greek yogurt and m&ms quite a few days during the week. I love Greek yogurt. It is awesome. I also love chocolate, but I really have to limit myself because it makes me so thirsty. So do kashi bars. Sodium... Drat. Maybe substitute another snack? More veggies? More whole grains?

    Love the banana and proteins in the morning (like egg whites and lean meats). I need to take that page from your diary and try to copy it. I am horrible about not eating breakfast... Sigh. Oh, I am assuming your water intake is up there and just not recorded. I am short and drinking about a gallon a day.. your body regulates water intake based on the previous 24 hours, so if you aren't getting enough, you will get payback the entire next day for it...

    Hope I am being helpful.

    Ok, about the M&Ms... I think that was only once, but sure, that's gotta go.
    I drink water non-stop. I work from home and there is always water and a potty nearby.

    Salt. Love it.
    I've seen a couple of weight spikes in recent weeks where I went up by 5 lbs pretty much overnight. I believe I figured out that was from eating very salty Thai food. I took a diuretic (just to see) and the weight came right back off.
    So, I don't think I retain a lot of water normally, but i can when I seriously over do the salt.

    More veggies. Yep. Need to.
  • GauchoMark
    GauchoMark Posts: 1,804 Member
    nothing wrong with M&M's or salt (assuming your blood pressure is OK). Just realize that at 220 lbs, water retention can change your weight by a good 5-7 lbs.

    BTW, you don't need diuretics. Just drink a lot of water for a few days and limit the salt and the water will come off.
  • iAMsmiling
    iAMsmiling Posts: 2,394 Member
    nothing wrong with M&M's or salt (assuming your blood pressure is OK). Just realize that at 220 lbs, water retention can change your weight by a good 5-7 lbs.

    BTW, you don't need diuretics. Just drink a lot of water for a few days and limit the salt and the water will come off.

    Yea, the diuretics were just to test the theory that my weight spike was water related. Took a few pills, the 5 lbs came right back off.
  • iAMsmiling
    iAMsmiling Posts: 2,394 Member
    Additional info...

    27739717_5311.jpg
  • blues4miles
    blues4miles Posts: 1,481 Member
    First of all, I'm not sure I'm going to be able to add much more than many of the smart people who've already commented. But as I just moved on from what seemed to me like a 6 week plateau, I'm very sympathetic.

    From californiagirl:
    This sounds so much like me for 15 years. You can't over exercise too many calories. The exercise burn is highly over rated, of course you burn calories.

    I totally believe this. First, I think too many people overestimate exercise calories. Even if you are using a HRM and getting an "accurate" measure I have a suspicion exercise calories don't work like food calories do. I have an excel spreadsheet of my daily calories CONSUMED. I then average that out, figure out how many pounds I've lost in the same amount of time, multiply that figure by 3500, and then calculate what my actual TDEE or what my actual daily deficit is (if anyone wants more details on this please PM me, I don't want to bore everyone to tears).

    Using this for the last two months gives me a TDEE of about 1650. This matches almost exactly what the fat2fitradio tool's page says is my "sedentary" TDEE. So am I sedentary? No. I run 3 times a week and lift weights 2-3 times a week. But apparently, my body doesn't care. I agree with whoever it was that says you are working out and lifting so your body preserves muscle, not so much for the calorie burn.

    Second totally agree with GauchoMark to start making a spreadsheet of your weight (I am even more crazy and I weigh myself up to 3 times a day. Therefore I know REALLY well now what causes my weight to spike up and down during the day, usually water related). My body weight tends to fluctuate by about 2 lbs a day (yours might be more as you are heavier than me). I don't "count" a new low I see until it is repeated again and again in morning AND evening weigh-ins. Anyways, graphing all this information into a spreadsheet helps me to see that even though the numbers might be muddy over a 6 week period I can tell my body has dropped down from what it was a couple months ago. And that's what you're looking for. Weight loss isn't linear. If you expected to lose say, 5-10 lbs in 2 months you might lose that any day now. Our bodies tend to let go of weight in chunks.

    Third: switch it up. If I followed the advice of every plateau thread on here I'd be eating more calories. That scared the CRAP out of me. I didn't want to try it. I've lost so little weight that the idea that I'd gain again made me miserable. So I cut calories by about 200 a day. Just for a few days. I did it basically for as long as I could stand it, which was about 3 days. Then went back up. Next couple days, my body dropped some weight. It's been slowly creeping down again since then. The 600 "extra" calories I didn't eat over those three days probably had absolutely nothing to do with my breaking the plateau up.

    Eat more, eat less, change your workout, lift more weights, lift heavier weights, cut back on cardio for a week, swim for a week instead, cut back on lifting for a week, walk more, walk less, cut back on carbs for a week, up protein for a week, whatever causes a change.

    Sidenote on exercise overstimation: general wisdom for runners is that you will burn between 80-100 calories per mile you run. The heavier you are, the faster you run, the higher the calorie burn. If you are lighter or more efficient, your body will burn less calories. I can run about 2.5 miles in 30 minutes. So at best that's 250 calories I burn at a pace that is quite challenging for me. When I see people most calorie burn from their HRM I am always surprised. I know if you weigh over 200 lbs you're going to get a better burn, but I really wonder. Every time I get a number of a machine I ask myself "was this easier/harder for me to do than running this whole time". If the answer is no, I didn't burn more than 500 calories in an hour.

    So I say, keep eating what you are eating. It is probably working, your scale just isn't showing you that yet. Change something up in order to break the plateau, but probably what you are doing is working.

    Also you might check out Lyle McDonald's Body Recomposition site: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com

    He offers a ton of articles on fat loss, muscle mass, etc. He has a series of articles on training the obese beginner that I found very helpful and he tends to note (like many others have) that doing a lot of cardio on a calorie deficit is not always a quick/easy thing. Anyways, check it out. Good luck!
  • nil8r
    nil8r Posts: 45 Member
    Do you get enough sleep?

    I find that if I'm only averaging 5-6 hours a night that even if I feel fully functional, my body won't give up the weight no matter how good I am with diet and exercise.
  • iAMsmiling
    iAMsmiling Posts: 2,394 Member
    First of all, I'm not sure I'm going to be able to add much more than many of the smart people who've already commented. But as I just moved on from what seemed to me like a 6 week plateau, I'm very sympathetic.

    From californiagirl:
    This sounds so much like me for 15 years. You can't over exercise too many calories. The exercise burn is highly over rated, of course you burn calories.

    I totally believe this. First, I think too many people overestimate exercise calories. Even if you are using a HRM and getting an "accurate" measure I have a suspicion exercise calories don't work like food calories do. I have an excel spreadsheet of my daily calories CONSUMED. I then average that out, figure out how many pounds I've lost in the same amount of time, multiply that figure by 3500, and then calculate what my actual TDEE or what my actual daily deficit is (if anyone wants more details on this please PM me, I don't want to bore everyone to tears).

    Using this for the last two months gives me a TDEE of about 1650. This matches almost exactly what the fat2fitradio tool's page says is my "sedentary" TDEE. So am I sedentary? No. I run 3 times a week and lift weights 2-3 times a week. But apparently, my body doesn't care. I agree with whoever it was that says you are working out and lifting so your body preserves muscle, not so much for the calorie burn.

    Second totally agree with GauchoMark to start making a spreadsheet of your weight (I am even more crazy and I weigh myself up to 3 times a day. Therefore I know REALLY well now what causes my weight to spike up and down during the day, usually water related). My body weight tends to fluctuate by about 2 lbs a day (yours might be more as you are heavier than me). I don't "count" a new low I see until it is repeated again and again in morning AND evening weigh-ins. Anyways, graphing all this information into a spreadsheet helps me to see that even though the numbers might be muddy over a 6 week period I can tell my body has dropped down from what it was a couple months ago. And that's what you're looking for. Weight loss isn't linear. If you expected to lose say, 5-10 lbs in 2 months you might lose that any day now. Our bodies tend to let go of weight in chunks.

    Third: switch it up. If I followed the advice of every plateau thread on here I'd be eating more calories. That scared the CRAP out of me. I didn't want to try it. I've lost so little weight that the idea that I'd gain again made me miserable. So I cut calories by about 200 a day. Just for a few days. I did it basically for as long as I could stand it, which was about 3 days. Then went back up. Next couple days, my body dropped some weight. It's been slowly creeping down again since then. The 600 "extra" calories I didn't eat over those three days probably had absolutely nothing to do with my breaking the plateau up.

    Eat more, eat less, change your workout, lift more weights, lift heavier weights, cut back on cardio for a week, swim for a week instead, cut back on lifting for a week, walk more, walk less, cut back on carbs for a week, up protein for a week, whatever causes a change.

    Sidenote on exercise overstimation: general wisdom for runners is that you will burn between 80-100 calories per mile you run. The heavier you are, the faster you run, the higher the calorie burn. If you are lighter or more efficient, your body will burn less calories. I can run about 2.5 miles in 30 minutes. So at best that's 250 calories I burn at a pace that is quite challenging for me. When I see people most calorie burn from their HRM I am always surprised. I know if you weigh over 200 lbs you're going to get a better burn, but I really wonder. Every time I get a number of a machine I ask myself "was this easier/harder for me to do than running this whole time". If the answer is no, I didn't burn more than 500 calories in an hour.

    So I say, keep eating what you are eating. It is probably working, your scale just isn't showing you that yet. Change something up in order to break the plateau, but probably what you are doing is working.

    Also you might check out Lyle McDonald's Body Recomposition site: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com

    He offers a ton of articles on fat loss, muscle mass, etc. He has a series of articles on training the obese beginner that I found very helpful and he tends to note (like many others have) that doing a lot of cardio on a calorie deficit is not always a quick/easy thing. Anyways, check it out. Good luck!

    Making sense in the opposite direction of so many others making sense...argh!

    If I'm overestimating calorie burn, then my net should be about where everyone says it should be instead of indicating I'm eating too little.

    The whole thing is so damn frustrating because there are all these numbers, which give the appearance of predictability. But, since all of those numbers are estimations and guesses, the error rate is silly large. What's worse, the body obviously doesn't get the menus about behaving in a predictable, linear fashion.
  • iAMsmiling
    iAMsmiling Posts: 2,394 Member
    Do you get enough sleep?

    I find that if I'm only averaging 5-6 hours a night that even if I feel fully functional, my body won't give up the weight no matter how good I am with diet and exercise.

    I get about 6 hours a night on weeknights and 8 or 9 on weekends. So, a little short, but not horribly.
  • briannadunn
    briannadunn Posts: 841 Member
    After what I saw, I would talk to your doctor and make sure you don't have something else going on (under active thyroid?). If you are physically checking out fine and don't have any deficiencies (Like vitamin D, it was low for me and it was keeping on the pounds, ask specifically for this and vitamin B), I would then take a metabolism support multivitamin and make sure you are drinking lots of water. Yoyoing your calories helps also, averaging your daily intake. Also, I actually STOPPED exercising for a time and lost 7 pounds in a week and kept it off.
  • paygep
    paygep Posts: 401 Member

    ... If I do trendlines for the weight and lbm, I can calculate my starting and ending weights and not have to deal with the daily fluctuation. I get:

    Date Weight LBM
    9/3/2012 194.3 164.8
    10/1/2012 194.0 167.9

    So, a weight loss of 0.3 lbs in the month, but I gained 3.1 lbs LBM, so I lost 3.4 lbs of fat.

    Obviously, all this is based on my bathroom scale, so take it or leave it, but its better than nothing. But, if I didn't collect the data and do the linear regression, I could think I was plateau'd right now...

    ^^^
    This is so awesome! I'm going to make myself a chart like yours! Proof of fat loss rules. :love:

    Lot's of good info in this thread... good luck, hope it helps you out!

    And you look great in your pic!
  • iAMsmiling
    iAMsmiling Posts: 2,394 Member
    So, here's what I'm thinking.

    I'm going to add about 500 calories a day to my plan. That'll have me netting about 2000 calories a day. That's a move in the more food direction w/o going crazy.
    We'll see if that half-measure does anything for me.

    If I lose weight, great. If I gain weight, then I'll know under eating isn't the issue.

    Thoughts?
  • natalie412
    natalie412 Posts: 1,039 Member
    Just give it more than a week - if you really have been undereating, it may take a few weeks for your body to adjust.
  • iAMsmiling
    iAMsmiling Posts: 2,394 Member
    Just give it more than a week - if you really have been undereating, it may take a few weeks for your body to adjust.

    Yea...
    The challenge will be to find good food and not crap to fill out that 500 calories.
  • Jenada79
    Jenada79 Posts: 17 Member
    Just give it more than a week - if you really have been undereating, it may take a few weeks for your body to adjust.

    This^
  • awesomek001
    awesomek001 Posts: 167 Member

    1) If numbers were all there were, you would all be bowing before my magnificence.
    2) I've got to be under counting calories, over counting exercise or a combination of both.

    I'm bowing - - simply because I'm always impressed with numbers. My guess ( and it is only a guess) is that the amount you are eating isn't matching what serving size you're tracking. Weigh everything - - - and I mean everything, and see if that helps. Don't believe anyone saying you're not eating enough - because you have gained when you eat yummy once in a while.

    I'm at 220 and don't exercise even close to your level and I lose weight at 2000 cals per day so it's definately something that isn't being added together right . . .

    Good luck in finding the tweak you need . . .

    Kathy
  • phynyxfyre
    phynyxfyre Posts: 145 Member
    Good thoughts. I hit plateaus also. My first one was after 15 lbs, and the trick that finally worked after 6 weeks was switching up exercises. Plus, I was pretty frustrated with the whole thing by then and got angry at my body and simply pushed like crazy a few days. Then I kept varying my routine, convinced that would keep plateaus away. Theory was great, reality was that after another 10 lbs, I plateaued again, and looked harder at my numbers. I had been eating below my base rate, and needed to come up. That worked. This last one I dropped back down a little on my calories in, and that worked.

    It is trial and error. Nothing is fool-proof because fools are so ingenious... Plus our bodies like to maintain the status quo. You'll find what works this time, and what works now may not work later. The numbers are a great guide, but they are just that: a guide. You can do this!