Vitamins, Minerals, Supplements, Stimulants, Confusion
maxonehiphop
Posts: 139 Member
I tend to be a skeptic. I'm not convinced that everything will give me cancer and I don't believe drinking pepper, syrup and lemonade cleanses your body of "toxins".
I like to see studies with conclusive definitive conclusions before I'm convinced of most things but I also don't really care if someone else wants to believe that eating all organic makes them healthier. Have at it! I'll buy those apples when they are on sale for less than the other ones.
When it comes to glucosamine, chondroitin, garlic, l-arginine, stool softener, saw palmetto, creatine, potassium, chromium picolinate, cinnamon, CLA, fish oil, Acidophilus, echinacea, l-glutamine, melatonin, yohimbi(ne)and on and on etc. etc. etc. I'm kind of lost.
I know I'm mixing a bunch of different things into one topic but for me they are all part of my routine. I take certain pills in the morning, after workout, after lunch, before bed. I know some stuff has some pretty solid studies behind it and other stuff doesn't and is probably pointless. I'd love to get input from folks that have concise info on any of this stuff.
The other thing I get lost on because I don't really take (have) the time to fully research it is whether or not some of these things shouldn't be taken at the same time. A friend of mine let me know that you shouldn't use L-Arginine if you are doing an ECA stack. I said thank you. I did not know that. He's also the one that convinced me to try an ECA stack
I've read that supplements can account for a very very small percentage of muscle growth over all and are really a waste of money. I'm pretty sure the vitamins and minerals aren't going to hurt me but are they really useful? Saving money sounds good but I've also noticed a difference physically in myself when I'm using certain supplements vs. when I'm not. When I run out I don't restock for quite a while. I assume it's not bad to let your organs take a break.
I'll give an example of something that seems to make a very noticeable difference. Glucosamine w/Chondroitin seems make my joints feel much better.
I'd love to just use the stuff that is proven to actually work. Like if Saw Palmetto really decreases my chances of having prostate issues later in life then I think it's a good idea to keep it up.
I listen to talk radio and on the weekends there is a butt-load of infomercials on pills and I never believe anything I hear on those but somehow I find I'm taking garlic pills because over time I've been convinced that it is probably a good idea.
I'd appreciate any input especially from folks that really know their stuff. Feel free to drop science on things I didn't mention and post links to real scientific studies not your neighbors holistic blog.
I like to see studies with conclusive definitive conclusions before I'm convinced of most things but I also don't really care if someone else wants to believe that eating all organic makes them healthier. Have at it! I'll buy those apples when they are on sale for less than the other ones.
When it comes to glucosamine, chondroitin, garlic, l-arginine, stool softener, saw palmetto, creatine, potassium, chromium picolinate, cinnamon, CLA, fish oil, Acidophilus, echinacea, l-glutamine, melatonin, yohimbi(ne)and on and on etc. etc. etc. I'm kind of lost.
I know I'm mixing a bunch of different things into one topic but for me they are all part of my routine. I take certain pills in the morning, after workout, after lunch, before bed. I know some stuff has some pretty solid studies behind it and other stuff doesn't and is probably pointless. I'd love to get input from folks that have concise info on any of this stuff.
The other thing I get lost on because I don't really take (have) the time to fully research it is whether or not some of these things shouldn't be taken at the same time. A friend of mine let me know that you shouldn't use L-Arginine if you are doing an ECA stack. I said thank you. I did not know that. He's also the one that convinced me to try an ECA stack
I've read that supplements can account for a very very small percentage of muscle growth over all and are really a waste of money. I'm pretty sure the vitamins and minerals aren't going to hurt me but are they really useful? Saving money sounds good but I've also noticed a difference physically in myself when I'm using certain supplements vs. when I'm not. When I run out I don't restock for quite a while. I assume it's not bad to let your organs take a break.I'll give an example of something that seems to make a very noticeable difference. Glucosamine w/Chondroitin seems make my joints feel much better.
I'd love to just use the stuff that is proven to actually work. Like if Saw Palmetto really decreases my chances of having prostate issues later in life then I think it's a good idea to keep it up.
I listen to talk radio and on the weekends there is a butt-load of infomercials on pills and I never believe anything I hear on those but somehow I find I'm taking garlic pills because over time I've been convinced that it is probably a good idea.
I'd appreciate any input especially from folks that really know their stuff. Feel free to drop science on things I didn't mention and post links to real scientific studies not your neighbors holistic blog.
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Replies
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I hear you. Personally, I'm scarred for life because my parents sold various supplements while I was growing up and all of them "cured" cancer, lupus, diabetes, and athletes foot. I'm almost at the "I don't care" point. But honestly I've thought alot about the value in growing your own food because a balanced garden-grown diet (with some meat thrown in) should contain all I need to have what I was designed to have.
Just some randomness.0 -
I hear you guys because I try and eat 80% raw fruits and veggies but fail almost every day. I do come from a “raw fruits and vegetables is the answer” perspective so when talking about vitamins and supplements I simply ask where is the independent 3rd party clinical research studies published in peer reviewed journals on the exact product as a whole?
I'm not really focused on muscle building but more on strengthening my immune system. So in my own research I asked these questions: Does it deliver key antioxidants and other phytonutrients that are absorbed by the body? Does it reduce oxidative stress? Does it support a healthy immune system? Does it help protect DNA? Does it positively impacts several key indicators of cardiovascular wellness?0 -
Bump!0
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I hear you guys because I try and eat 80% raw fruits and veggies but fail almost every day. I do come from a “raw fruits and vegetables is the answer” perspective so when talking about vitamins and supplements I simply ask where is the independent 3rd party clinical research studies published in peer reviewed journals on the exact product as a whole?
I'm not really focused on muscle building but more on strengthening my immune system. So in my own research I asked these questions: Does it deliver key antioxidants and other phytonutrients that are absorbed by the body? Does it reduce oxidative stress? Does it support a healthy immune system? Does it help protect DNA? Does it positively impacts several key indicators of cardiovascular wellness?
I'm consuming plenty of raw fruits and veggies normally IMO although much like the vitamins and supplements occasionally when we are low on groceries I have a few days in a row where I don't get them. I would like to see the indy 3rd party clinical research as well when it comes to the supplements. I've seen some on Creatine. I'm pretty convinced it does what it's supposed to. I can't say the same for most of the other stuff and I'm open to being convinced otherwise on the creatine , glucosamine etc.0 -
L-arginine is an amino acid that is taken before workouts to promote "pumps" in the gym. pumps are when your muscle fills up with blood thus creating a "pump'. Does it work ? Yes, it works very well temporarily. You may also find that it promotes vascularity as well. Depending what your goals are there are many products on the market that do in fact "work" but that may be something you have no interest in. Different supplements do different things. ECA stacks of today are not ECA stacks. They were band due impart to the fact they had ephedrine in them. The FDA banned ephedrine long ago. ECA stands for ephedrine,caffeine, and asprin. Those worked very well, and when something works very well the FDA usually bans it. I like to keep it simple, don't be misled by hype, or outlandish claims when it comes to supplements. Do your own research and find what it is that you need.0
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L-arginine is an amino acid that is taken before workouts to promote "pumps" in the gym. pumps are when your muscle fills up with blood thus creating a "pump'. Does it work ? Yes, it works very well temporarily. You may also find that it promotes vascularity as well. Depending what your goals are there are many products on the market that do in fact "work" but that may be something you have no interest in. Different supplements do different things. ECA stacks of today are not ECA stacks. They were band due impart to the fact they had ephedrine in them. The FDA banned ephedrine long ago. ECA stands for ephedrine,caffeine, and asprin. Those worked very well, and when something works very well the FDA usually bans it. I like to keep it simple, don't be misled by hype, or outlandish claims when it comes to supplements. Do your own research and find what it is that you need.
It was actually the herbal Ephedra that was banned, not Ephedrine. You can buy Ephedrine at any drugstore OTC in the form of Bronkaid, Primatene, etc. It's easy to make your own stack by simply purchasing one of those products and taking a caffeine pill with it.
As far as the A part of that stack, aspirin, it's only been shown to be effective when in use by the obese. For those who aren't, it's a great way to burn a hole in your stomach. To the Op; if that doesn't apply to you, I would drop the aspirin. (If you are interested in reading up on it a bit more I suggest looking into some of Lyle McDonald's work.)0 -
Ephedrine is banned where I live has been for a long time. Reason being, crystal meth cooks used to buy it to make their drug. I also believe that ephedra is banned here too. I was talking about in supplements. However, psuedoephedrine is still in sudafed. So I guess we are both right to some degree.0
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Most recent studies on glucosamine and chondritin find no more efficacy than placebo.
Here's one from the British medical journal:
http://www.bmj.com/content/341/bmj.c46750 -
The broscience PhD's must have broken radars tonight0
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Yeah, I'm doing an EC Stack not an ECA stack.
I visit Lyle McDonald's site semi-regularly.
It seems like there is so much conflicting info out there (just like on everything i guess) that if you aren't in that field then you are pretty much at the mercy of your source.
I need to read that stuff on glucosamine. That is one of the things that has seemed to work in my own experience but who knows...maybe i started or stopped eating something right around that same time 0 -
I think there is so many different opinions and takes on supplements and vitamins because everybody is so different. For me glucosamine and chondritin taken for 2 months did nothing for my joint pain. I have bad shoulders and wrists from years of sports and weight lifting, but 2 weeks on fish oil made a world of difference. was it really the fish oil or was it the "research" i did on fish oil and joint relief? either way, placebo or science, it works for me. I think they best thing we can do is read, read and read some more, try different things and see what works for you. I currently take a "test booster" called Mdrive, I take it with my lunch everyday and on the 1st day I used it I experienced no 2 oclock crash like I have experienced my whole adult life. Now for me, this product works, but after reading reviews about half were negetive. I agree with the OP, it can be madening reading all the mixed reviews and opinions out there.1
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I hear you guys because I try and eat 80% raw fruits and veggies but fail almost every day. I do come from a “raw fruits and vegetables is the answer” perspective so when talking about vitamins and supplements I simply ask where is the independent 3rd party clinical research studies published in peer reviewed journals on the exact product as a whole?
I'm not really focused on muscle building but more on strengthening my immune system. So in my own research I asked these questions: Does it deliver key antioxidants and other phytonutrients that are absorbed by the body? Does it reduce oxidative stress? Does it support a healthy immune system? Does it help protect DNA? Does it positively impacts several key indicators of cardiovascular wellness?
I'm consuming plenty of raw fruits and veggies normally IMO although much like the vitamins and supplements occasionally when we are low on groceries I have a few days in a row where I don't get them. I would like to see the indy 3rd party clinical research as well when it comes to the supplements. I've seen some on Creatine. I'm pretty convinced it does what it's supposed to. I can't say the same for most of the other stuff and I'm open to being convinced otherwise on the creatine , glucosamine etc.
Do you know how many times I hear that when I bring up eating 9-13 servings a day. Honestly count each serving and see if you don't come up short every single day. I know I do so I fill the gap with a product called Juice Plus+ which is just more fruits and veggies.0 -
I hear you guys because I try and eat 80% raw fruits and veggies but fail almost every day. I do come from a “raw fruits and vegetables is the answer” perspective so when talking about vitamins and supplements I simply ask where is the independent 3rd party clinical research studies published in peer reviewed journals on the exact product as a whole?
I'm not really focused on muscle building but more on strengthening my immune system. So in my own research I asked these questions: Does it deliver key antioxidants and other phytonutrients that are absorbed by the body? Does it reduce oxidative stress? Does it support a healthy immune system? Does it help protect DNA? Does it positively impacts several key indicators of cardiovascular wellness?
I'm consuming plenty of raw fruits and veggies normally IMO although much like the vitamins and supplements occasionally when we are low on groceries I have a few days in a row where I don't get them. I would like to see the indy 3rd party clinical research as well when it comes to the supplements. I've seen some on Creatine. I'm pretty convinced it does what it's supposed to. I can't say the same for most of the other stuff and I'm open to being convinced otherwise on the creatine , glucosamine etc.
Do you know how many times I hear that when I bring up eating 9-13 servings a day. Honestly count each serving and see if you don't come up short every single day. I know I do so I fill the gap with a product called Juice Plus+ which is just more fruits and veggies.
I'll give you an example. Today so far I've had 16 oz. of brocolli, 2 cups of raw spinach, 2 cups of "spring mix", 16 oz of blue berries, one banana, 1 apple, 1 pear & It's only 8:50 A.M. I will have more veggies w/dinner and more fruit as snacks during the day.0 -
I hear you guys because I try and eat 80% raw fruits and veggies but fail almost every day. I do come from a “raw fruits and vegetables is the answer” perspective so when talking about vitamins and supplements I simply ask where is the independent 3rd party clinical research studies published in peer reviewed journals on the exact product as a whole?
I'm not really focused on muscle building but more on strengthening my immune system. So in my own research I asked these questions: Does it deliver key antioxidants and other phytonutrients that are absorbed by the body? Does it reduce oxidative stress? Does it support a healthy immune system? Does it help protect DNA? Does it positively impacts several key indicators of cardiovascular wellness?
I'm consuming plenty of raw fruits and veggies normally IMO although much like the vitamins and supplements occasionally when we are low on groceries I have a few days in a row where I don't get them. I would like to see the indy 3rd party clinical research as well when it comes to the supplements. I've seen some on Creatine. I'm pretty convinced it does what it's supposed to. I can't say the same for most of the other stuff and I'm open to being convinced otherwise on the creatine , glucosamine etc.
Do you know how many times I hear that when I bring up eating 9-13 servings a day. Honestly count each serving and see if you don't come up short every single day. I know I do so I fill the gap with a product called Juice Plus+ which is just more fruits and veggies.
I'll give you an example. Today so far I've had 16 oz. of brocolli, 2 cups of raw spinach, 2 cups of "spring mix", 16 oz of blue berries, one banana, 1 apple, 1 pear & It's only 8:50 A.M. I will have more veggies w/dinner and more fruit as snacks during the day.
Looks like you are doing a great job of getting your 9-13 servings of raw fruits and veggies. Continue to influencing others to do the same because we both know the health benefits.0 -
It's crazy. I did another "test" on myself on the glucosamine. I quit taking it the day I read the post linked to the study that says it makes no difference.
As of last night the old pain that I got when I first started doing jiu jitsu is back. It's not as bad as it was originally but back then it took a couple months to get bad. It was after several weeks of taking glucosamine before I noticed a positive difference. Since then the pain has been gone the entire time except for a month or so where I was w/out the pills. Twice now I quit taking them and the joint pain returned. I'm going to wait a couple more weeks to see how extreme it gets before I start taking them again.
I'd love to save the money if they aren't really effective but it's hard to convince myself they don't work when the seem to work so well. I never even need to take pain medicine for my joints when I'm using glucosamine (after a few weeks of taking it) My joints are throbbing up a storm right now...especially elbows.
I can't imagine that it's mental because I'm totally oblivious to the fact that I take it and or stop taking it. I have a batch of pre workout pills, post work out pills, lunch pills and bedtime pills. I don't even know what's what other than when I read my little schedule to refill the pill box/dispenser thingy.
I know there is nothing scientific about that but glucosamine/chondroitin and creatine have appeared to be very effective when I use them. Everything else...i can't really tell. But then again, I don't think I would specifically notice anything about my prostate health unless i got checked and found out otherwise.
I don't even see a difference from stool softeners but I take them anyway . In fact if anyone knows of some that are amazing at their job...let me know so I can switch mine out for something that clearly works. (gross)0 -
I'm surprised there haven't been more folks dropping science, opinions and questions.
I wonder about everything. I don't feel like I have clarity on it. One of the few things I was fairly convinced about appears to be useless (glucosamine) based on the study posted earlier in the thread.
Anybody have thoughts on :
Garlic
Calcium
Magnesium
Saw Palmetto
Creatine
CoQ10
Potassium
Omega 3, 6, 9,
Echinacea
L-Glutamine
Melatonin
Cla
Cinnamon
Chromium Picolinate
Chewable Acidophilus
other vitamins/minerals
or any other pre workout/post workout magic pills/powders?0 -
WOW, that's alot of info you're looking for. Umm, I seen you quit taking glucosamine/chondroiton. That's actually been proven to help rebuild the cartilage in your joints. You may also want to add fish oil to help lubricate the joints.0
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WOW, that's alot of info you're looking for. Umm, I seen you quit taking glucosamine/chondroiton. That's actually been proven to help rebuild the cartilage in your joints. You may also want to add fish oil to help lubricate the joints.
i'm not necessarily looking for info specifically for me. I'm looking for dialogue on this stuff based on as much factual information as possible along with questions from others. I have had several convos about this stuff w/other folks and many of them are lost on what really works and what doesn't. I normally take both but I quit as an experiment based on the study someone else posted as a link to earlier in the thread. My joints started throbbing again about 2 weeks after I quit taking it. They still aren't aren't nearly as bad as they were before I started using the glucosamine/chondroitin (and fish oil actually) in the first place but the study claimed there was no difference found between it and the placebo.
My thinking is if we can find out based on proven science what is effective and what isn't we can save money by only purchasing the stuff that actually does what it claims it does.0 -
Easiest thing to do is just eat healthy and stay away from the supplements. Saves you a crap ton of cash, and most supplements have conflicted studies anyway.0
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thats crazy talk, take zinc for instance, very important for immune health and for men in general. you would have to eat a crap load of oysters to get the daily req't for it and that would overhaul your system with cholesterol. easier option, pop a zinc supplement once a day. you will never get all your vitamins and minerals from eating clean. not to mention, the ppl on here or probably working out and taxing their bodies so they require extra supplementation for stress and recovery.1
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For every vitamin I've researched there have been loads of studies talking about how well at works, and as many saying it doesn't have any effect. The only thing I've read consistantly is that Vitamin A shouldn't be taken by pregnant women.
I would love to find some impartial studies on Vitamins too, and some where diet was properly controlled. If you already eat enough of whatever vitamin is in the supplement you wont notice a difference!0 -
thats crazy talk, take zinc for instance, very important for immune health and for men in general. you would have to eat a crap load of oysters to get the daily req't for it and that would overhaul your system with cholesterol. easier option, pop a zinc supplement once a day. you will never get all your vitamins and minerals from eating clean. not to mention, the ppl on here or probably working out and taxing their bodies so they require extra supplementation for stress and recovery.
That's the reason I supplement. I'm working out so much now that I sure I'm going through the supplies much faster than I used to but there is no dash board to tell me when I'm running low on magnesium or whatever.
Plus I'm still trippin' on Glucosamine. Stuff has been amazing for me. I'm starting (my normal routine of pills) again Monday because everything is hurting quite a bit worse at this point. I am going to continue to research this stuff and will hopefully trim it down to things that are proven to work and also seem to work for me. I hate wasting money!0 -
it's been 5 years and I'm still wondering about all this. It was good to read it all again though. I forgot how much the glucosamine was helping.0
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The best, most reliable, science-based site to research virtually any supplements is examine.com.maxonehiphop wrote: »it's been 5 years and I'm still wondering about all this. It was good to read it all again though. I forgot how much the glucosamine was helping.
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The only supplementary tablets I would offer would be taking a PROBIOTIC daily.
A probiotic encourages good gut health which can assist in a healthy biodome in the intestine. This in turn can assist weight loss.
AND YES IT IS BACKED UP BY SCIENCE!
http://www.chatelaine.com/health/gut-health-check-microbes/amp/
It is after all up to the individual.1
This discussion has been closed.
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