How to drop down to sub 10% bodyfat - Help wanted.
CaseRat
Posts: 377 Member
So, I need some help.
Been on a cut for 12 weeks now. I'm 6kg down and at what I think is around 12-13% bodyfat, down from 19ish%.
Feels like I've stalled out a little bit the past couple of weeks, even though the weight is still going down at my expected rate of 0.45kg-0.5kg/week. Mirror-wise, there hasn't been a whole lot of change.
My arms and legs still hold essentially the same measurements as when I began 12 weeks ago; I'm not losing muscle.
Lean body mass estimates to 99% of what it was when I began.
Waist is down from 35/36 to a 32.
Should I either:
1. Continue doing what I'm doing at my deficit with lifting and HIIT, keeping my macros in check
orrrrrrr
2. Eat at maintenance for a little while to give my body a break, then return to cutting?
Or 3, suggest something else?
Been on a cut for 12 weeks now. I'm 6kg down and at what I think is around 12-13% bodyfat, down from 19ish%.
Feels like I've stalled out a little bit the past couple of weeks, even though the weight is still going down at my expected rate of 0.45kg-0.5kg/week. Mirror-wise, there hasn't been a whole lot of change.
My arms and legs still hold essentially the same measurements as when I began 12 weeks ago; I'm not losing muscle.
Lean body mass estimates to 99% of what it was when I began.
Waist is down from 35/36 to a 32.
Should I either:
1. Continue doing what I'm doing at my deficit with lifting and HIIT, keeping my macros in check
orrrrrrr
2. Eat at maintenance for a little while to give my body a break, then return to cutting?
Or 3, suggest something else?
0
Replies
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Bump. I'd like to know as well, for when I get to a rough equivalent % (for a female body).0
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Getting below 10% can be a *****, and below 8% becomes even more tedious. I've only seen on diet that reports any success with getting and staying in this range indefinitely without causing muscle/strength loss problems, and the only person I've seen it work for is the author (largely because it isn't a highly promoted diet, as he has no interest in making money off of it). He spent years tinkering with his diet to get it perfect for him, and you'll likely have to do the same. He stays at 6-7% year round from what I have seen.
Look up Jamie Lewis' Predator Diet. It's all in blog form with some serious NSFW stuff involved on a lot of his posts, but a Google search should find one of his many posts about it.
For the person above looking for advice for women, avoid that site like the plague unless you have very thick skin. He hates dealing with women when it comes to diet and training, insults them at every opportunity for their emotional attachments to various foods, etc.0 -
Getting below 10% can be a *****, and below 8% becomes even more tedious. I've only seen on diet that reports any success with getting and staying in this range indefinitely without causing muscle/strength loss problems, and the only person I've seen it work for is the author (largely because it isn't a highly promoted diet, as he has no interest in making money off of it). He spent years tinkering with his diet to get it perfect for him, and you'll likely have to do the same. He stays at 6-7% year round from what I have seen.
Look up Jamie Lewis' Predator Diet. It's all in blog form with some serious NSFW stuff involved on a lot of his posts, but a Google search should find one of his many posts about it.
For the person above looking for advice for women, avoid that site like the plague unless you have very thick skin. He hates dealing with women when it comes to diet and training, insults them at every opportunity for their emotional attachments to various foods, etc.
Beauty, thanks!0 -
Getting below 10% can be a *****, and below 8% becomes even more tedious. I've only seen on diet that reports any success with getting and staying in this range indefinitely without causing muscle/strength loss problems, and the only person I've seen it work for is the author (largely because it isn't a highly promoted diet, as he has no interest in making money off of it). He spent years tinkering with his diet to get it perfect for him, and you'll likely have to do the same. He stays at 6-7% year round from what I have seen.
Look up Jamie Lewis' Predator Diet. It's all in blog form with some serious NSFW stuff involved on a lot of his posts, but a Google search should find one of his many posts about it.
For the person above looking for advice for women, avoid that site like the plague unless you have very thick skin. He hates dealing with women when it comes to diet and training, insults them at every opportunity for their emotional attachments to various foods, etc.
Beauty, thanks!
No problem. Hell, maybe you'll enjoy his...abrasive writing style on everything as much as I do. He's become my go-to for all things lifting and nutrition, for one, because he's the newest record holding powerlifter and set those records while lean (unlike most powerlifters who tend to be a bit on the...obese side), and for two because he's all about pushing yourself harder, so long as you aren't crippled or dead. Too much 'go easy' training these days for my taste.
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Getting below 10% can be a *****, and below 8% becomes even more tedious. I've only seen on diet that reports any success with getting and staying in this range indefinitely without causing muscle/strength loss problems, and the only person I've seen it work for is the author (largely because it isn't a highly promoted diet, as he has no interest in making money off of it). He spent years tinkering with his diet to get it perfect for him, and you'll likely have to do the same. He stays at 6-7% year round from what I have seen.
Look up Jamie Lewis' Predator Diet. It's all in blog form with some serious NSFW stuff involved on a lot of his posts, but a Google search should find one of his many posts about it.
For the person above looking for advice for women, avoid that site like the plague unless you have very thick skin. He hates dealing with women when it comes to diet and training, insults them at every opportunity for their emotional attachments to various foods, etc.
Beauty, thanks!
No problem. Hell, maybe you'll enjoy his...abrasive writing style on everything as much as I do. He's become my go-to for all things lifting and nutrition, for one, because he's the newest record holding powerlifter and set those records while lean (unlike most powerlifters who tend to be a bit on the...obese side), and for two because he's all about pushing yourself harder, so long as you aren't crippled or dead. Too much 'go easy' training these days for my taste.
Haha, to put it bluntly I f***ing love it. Makes information that much more exciting.
I'm curious to try it; however it sounds to me as if my daily intake will be somewhere in the likes of 2500-3000 5/7 days of the week, and 4,000+ on the other 2 days. Which puts me at about 1lb/week in excess. Just puts of me off, when I'm trying to lose the fat...but then it makes sense with the PSMF's and all that. I dunno, I'll keep reading and researching.0 -
Hi. I found this article that has been quite useful to me.
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_diet_mass/the_get_shredded_diet
Although, the recommendations for calorie intake are quite low in my opinion, especially if you use epic intensity in the gym, but it has been working for me. I prefer to use different macro ratio's (my carbs are around 150 grams on days I lift and my fats are around 30 to 40 grams on those days). The author recommends fats ay around 60% I believe, while carbs are quite low. I find I don't have the energy to get through my workouts on extremely low carbs, hence I'll cycle my carbs, meaning I'll keep them at under 50 grams on days I don't lift (usually weekends, with just cardio on Saturday and resting on Sunday). I'll do a 45 min walk at 5am in a fasted state on weekdays, then have brekky (consisting mostly of carbs, namely oats, 200g no fat yogurt, berries, ground cinnamon, bcaa's, and a scoop of whey, all mixed together). I'll workout 2 hours later, drinking an intra-workout shake consisting of 25g carbs (glucose), scoop of whey protein, and bcaa's. I'll have a meal 2 hours later (lean meat or chicken, with veggies, and quarter avocado. I'll have about 80 or 90% of my daily carbs by around lunch time. The rest of the meals pretty much consist of casein protein, or meats or low fat cottage cheese and nuts or natural peanut butter.
I might try the high fat, low carb approach one day and see if it makes any difference. I guess it's beneficial to mix things up, especially if you find you've hit a plateau.
I have no idea what my bodyfat level is, nor do I fuss over numbers. Just look in the mirror. If you're happy with what you see, then you have reached a bodyfat level you're happy with. Doesn't matter if it's 10% or 6% :-)
I think the main thing is to be focused on your goal and be consistent!
Hope this helps.
Cheers0 -
Hi. I found this article that has been quite useful to me.
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_diet_mass/the_get_shredded_diet
Although, the recommendations for calorie intake are quite low in my opinion, especially if you use epic intensity in the gym, but it has been working for me. I prefer to use different macro ratio's (my carbs are around 150 grams on days I lift and my fats are around 30 to 40 grams on those days). The author recommends fats ay around 60% I believe, while carbs are quite low. I find I don't have the energy to get through my workouts on extremely low carbs, hence I'll cycle my carbs, meaning I'll keep them at under 50 grams on days I don't lift (usually weekends, with just cardio on Saturday and resting on Sunday). I'll do a 45 min walk at 5am in a fasted state on weekdays, then have brekky (consisting mostly of carbs, namely oats, 200g no fat yogurt, berries, ground cinnamon, bcaa's, and a scoop of whey, all mixed together). I'll workout 2 hours later, drinking an intra-workout shake consisting of 25g carbs (glucose), scoop of whey protein, and bcaa's. I'll have a meal 2 hours later (lean meat or chicken, with veggies, and quarter avocado. I'll have about 80 or 90% of my daily carbs by around lunch time. The rest of the meals pretty much consist of casein protein, or meats or low fat cottage cheese and nuts or natural peanut butter.
I might try the high fat, low carb approach one day and see if it makes any difference. I guess it's beneficial to mix things up, especially if you find you've hit a plateau.
I have no idea what my bodyfat level is, nor do I fuss over numbers. Just look in the mirror. If you're happy with what you see, then you have reached a bodyfat level you're happy with. Doesn't matter if it's 10% or 6% :-)
I think the main thing is to be focused on your goal and be consistent!
Hope this helps.
Cheers
I like the way you think.
From the looks of your pictures, you're doing an amazing job and it seems to be working well for you.
Thanks for the link, and now begins the big task of reading yet another massive amount of information. Oh well, it's good for the brain and will be good for the body, too.
Edit: Only problem with this so far in reading it, is the fact he's incorporating hundreds of dollars worth of supps into it, which is just not worth it for someone in my position. Anddd the fact that though it might drop the fat%, my lean mass would drop too much at 1,600kcal a day, even with the refeed day every 2 weeks, which I can't afford as I'm not that large. If I was 220lbs and could spare a few lbs of mass, sure, but not like this.0 -
Yeah, he seems to be focusing on supplements a fair bit, however, although I don't use all those mentioned, I would recommend using whey protein, creatine, and some bcaa's, as a minimum (along with the usual suspects - multivitamin and fish oil). I have found that it helps you keep your lean mass whilst on low calories. I still believe you will lose some muscle on this type of diet, but perhaps not as much as you may think.
The whey protein helps with filling in as a meal, while being low in calories, which is what you'll be striving to achieve with this diet. It's not easy. You can do it consuming whole foods, without any supplements, however, I don't know how effective it is, although, on my non gym days, I rarely use any supps, apart from maybe one protein shake.
I tell you what though, I certainly look forward to that refeed day:-)0 -
Question: if you're losing weight, but not losing muscle, how have you "stalled"?0
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I feel you on this as I am in the same arena as you. I am around 12% trying to cut to 8%. The biggest thing you can do is give it time. Try to eat lean whole foods, plenty of weight training and some cardio and a constant calorie deficit (should be 10-20% less than TDEE). Also, you dont' have to buy a bunch of supplements. You can do it will just food. I do a protein shake after because I generally don't feel like cooking meat at 9pm. Other than that, I just do a one a day and some fish oil.0
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You are getting into an unhealthy body composition range. If that's your commitment you need a professional trainer to keep you healthy.0
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I'd like to know what your workouts are like. I would suggest lifting heavy and eating at a slight surplus to build muscle and let the muscle burn the fat. The HIIT keep but no more than 30 minutes 3 times a week.0
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You are getting into an unhealthy body composition range. If that's your commitment you need a professional trainer to keep you healthy.
If it was a women, I would agree, but men are still very healthy at 6%+. It's when they start to dip down to 2-4% as to where they are in an unhealthy fat range.0 -
It just takes time and heavy lifting.
http://rippedbody.jp
www.leangains.com
http://www.silverhydra.com/2011/03/cheat-mode-the-official-guide/0 -
You are getting into an unhealthy body composition range. If that's your commitment you need a professional trainer to keep you healthy.
Hormonal issues become an issue at sub 7%.
As long as he gets his fats in on rest days he probably wont feel the downside of things.0 -
I'm not personally in this position so you can take this or not but I like to read everything. I love Lyle Mcdonald and he has a few books specifically related to people trying to get under 12% or so body fat. You can go look at his blog www.bodyrecomposition.com and here specifically http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the-stubborn-fat-solution for a few of his books. It may not be what you're looking for but I think its at least worth a glance.0
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Ah, I wouldn't call it unhealthy by any means, and I certainly don't need a trainer to keep me 'healthy'.You are getting into an unhealthy body composition range. If that's your commitment you need a professional trainer to keep you healthy.
As above said, it's not before you get below around 7% things get dodgy, and I don't plan on getting that low.I'd like to know what your workouts are like. I would suggest lifting heavy and eating at a slight surplus to build muscle and let the muscle burn the fat. The HIIT keep but no more than 30 minutes 3 times a week.
Mondays = Triceps/Chest/Core
Skipping as a warmup
BB Bench press - 3 sets of 10 warmup, 3 sets of 8 working
DB Bench - 4 sets of 8
3 sets pushups to failure
3 sets DB 2 hand-overhead triceps extension
Situps, planks, hanging leg raises mixed inbetween
Tuesday HIIT
Light jogging warmup, then 20-25x 100m sprints, followed by 100m walk back to the start. Takes around 30 minutes.
Wednesday Biceps/Back
Deadlifts - 3 sets warmup at 8-10reps, 4 sets working at 6-8 reps
Was doing lat pulldowns, but my cable broke so I've substituted pendlay rows in recently, 3-4 sets of 8-10 reps
DB curl - 3-4 sets 8 reps
DB rear delt rows, 2-3 sets 8 reps
Chinups/Pullups - 4-5 sets to failure
Thursday HIIT as above, or boxing - 30 minutes mixed in on the bag, going all out for 1min, then soft for 1min, skipping fast/slow etc. etc.
Friday Legs/Shoulders
3-4 sets of 8-10 leg extensions
3-4 sets of 8-10 leg curls
BB squat, 2-3 sets warmup, 3 sets working 8 reps
BB standing calf raise, 3-4 sets of 8-10
BB shoulder press, 4 sets of 8
BB shrug 3-4 sets of 8-10
+ I walk 4-5km a day.0 -
I would suggest doing a small bulk phase, gain some lean muscle then when you cut again you will have a lower bf% at a higher weight. This is just my opinion, may have to play with it to see what works best for you. I like to cut to 8-9%, and bulk to 12-13%, so my cycles are either short, or I only have small deficits and surpluses.0
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You're not going to reduce bodyfat eating at a surplus as that's going add both LBM and fat regardless of how you sceme your nutrient timing. Bulking followed by a cut is a different story and that's fine to do but you need to evaluate how much lean mass you have. If you feel like you've got enough now, to cut straight to 10, then I wouldn't bulk yet.
I would take a week at maintenance as a diet break for mental reasons (any physiological related benefits re: leptin/hormonal issues are a bonus) then resume your deficit and continue.
Have your lifts stalled yet or are you still getting stronger?0 -
Check back later0
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You're not going to reduce bodyfat eating at a surplus as that's going add both LBM and fat regardless of how you sceme your nutrient timing. Bulking followed by a cut is a different story and that's fine to do but you need to evaluate how much lean mass you have. If you feel like you've got enough now, to cut straight to 10, then I wouldn't bulk yet.
I would take a week at maintenance as a diet break for mental reasons (any physiological related benefits re: leptin/hormonal issues are a bonus) then resume your deficit and continue.
Have your lifts stalled yet or are you still getting stronger?
Yeah, there seems to be a lot of hype to do with that, and everything I've ever read that's been backed up by science just scraps it out the window.
I feel I've got enough to be content at the moment. Not saying I'm big by any means, but I've got enough that I'll have a solid foundation at 10. I've got a good frame and my proportions are right so that I look bigger than what I am, if that makes any sense. Thin waist, wide shoulders.
The 1 week at maintenance is seeming like a great idea after a bit of research, definitely going to go ahead with that.
Still getting stronger thankfully. Only marginally stronger, but stronger nonetheless.0 -
For the person above looking for advice for women, avoid that site like the plague unless you have very thick skin. He hates dealing with women when it comes to diet and training, insults them at every opportunity for their emotional attachments to various foods, etc.
What an *kitten*! Emotional attachment to food? Hardly! (at least not me) I just like my chocolate candy too much! :laugh:0 -
You're not going to reduce bodyfat eating at a surplus as that's going add both LBM and fat regardless of how you sceme your nutrient timing. Bulking followed by a cut is a different story and that's fine to do but you need to evaluate how much lean mass you have. If you feel like you've got enough now, to cut straight to 10, then I wouldn't bulk yet.
I would take a week at maintenance as a diet break for mental reasons (any physiological related benefits re: leptin/hormonal issues are a bonus) then resume your deficit and continue.
Have your lifts stalled yet or are you still getting stronger?
Yeah, there seems to be a lot of hype to do with that, and everything I've ever read that's been backed up by science just scraps it out the window.
I feel I've got enough to be content at the moment. Not saying I'm big by any means, but I've got enough that I'll have a solid foundation at 10. I've got a good frame and my proportions are right so that I look bigger than what I am, if that makes any sense. Thin waist, wide shoulders.
The 1 week at maintenance is seeming like a great idea after a bit of research, definitely going to go ahead with that.
Still getting stronger thankfully. Only marginally stronger, but stronger nonetheless.
Based on everything you are telling in this post, it just sounds to me like you might be mentally fried. You're getting leaner, your pants are getting smaller, you are not losing any abnormal amount of LBM per mirror/measurements, and your lifts are increasing.
You are doing things right. Diet break + keep grinding and I bet you see things differently in~4-6 weeks.0 -
You don't have the amount of lean mass that is required to look good at 8% bodyfat. You can drop down that low if you want to, but I doubt you're going to have that "ripped" look that you think you're going to have. Your best course of action is to do a bulk of a significant duration before you need to think about cutting again.0
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You're not going to reduce bodyfat eating at a surplus as that's going add both LBM and fat regardless of how you sceme your nutrient timing. Bulking followed by a cut is a different story and that's fine to do but you need to evaluate how much lean mass you have. If you feel like you've got enough now, to cut straight to 10, then I wouldn't bulk yet.
I would take a week at maintenance as a diet break for mental reasons (any physiological related benefits re: leptin/hormonal issues are a bonus) then resume your deficit and continue.
Have your lifts stalled yet or are you still getting stronger?
Yeah, there seems to be a lot of hype to do with that, and everything I've ever read that's been backed up by science just scraps it out the window.
I feel I've got enough to be content at the moment. Not saying I'm big by any means, but I've got enough that I'll have a solid foundation at 10. I've got a good frame and my proportions are right so that I look bigger than what I am, if that makes any sense. Thin waist, wide shoulders.
The 1 week at maintenance is seeming like a great idea after a bit of research, definitely going to go ahead with that.
Still getting stronger thankfully. Only marginally stronger, but stronger nonetheless.
Based on everything you are telling in this post, it just sounds to me like you might be mentally fried. You're getting leaner, your pants are getting smaller, you are not losing any abnormal amount of LBM per mirror/measurements, and your lifts are increasing.
You are doing things right. Diet break + keep grinding and I bet you see things differently in~4-6 weeks.
Mm, thanks for putting it nicely that I'm f***ed in the head right now haha. I think I just needed some outsider input to make sure I'm on the right track, or some different opinions as to what might work best.
Break and grind it is. Thanks SS.0 -
You don't have the amount of lean mass that is required to look good at 8% bodyfat. You can drop down that low if you want to, but I doubt you're going to have that "ripped" look that you think you're going to have. Your best course of action is to do a bulk of a significant duration before you need to think about cutting again.
Thanks bruski, funny that you say that when all you can see in my picture is my torso, not even including my arms or legs.
That being said, I'll be bulking for 9-10 months after I can get it down a little bit more; I know I'm not that large. It's not only for aesthetic reasons, it's also that I want to know I can get that low. Because if I can do it now, I'll know for future references what it takes to do it again.0 -
You don't have the amount of lean mass that is required to look good at 8% bodyfat. You can drop down that low if you want to, but I doubt you're going to have that "ripped" look that you think you're going to have. Your best course of action is to do a bulk of a significant duration before you need to think about cutting again.
Thanks bruski, funny that you say that when all you can see in my picture is my torso, not even including my arms or legs.
That being said, I'll be bulking for 9-10 months after I can get it down a little bit more; I know I'm not that large. It's not only for aesthetic reasons, it's also that I want to know I can get that low. Because if I can do it now, I'll know for future references what it takes to do it again.
I just wanted to add: You should take a moment to consider Fire_Rock's advice as it's always solid. My advice in this thread is that "IF" you believe you have enough lean mass to cut down to the ~10% mark then I'd do as I listed, but that "IF" is important.
I just can't assess that based on your .avi. Also depends on how lean you want to get. 10% and 8% aren't the same thing, etc.0 -
Bump0
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You don't have the amount of lean mass that is required to look good at 8% bodyfat. You can drop down that low if you want to, but I doubt you're going to have that "ripped" look that you think you're going to have. Your best course of action is to do a bulk of a significant duration before you need to think about cutting again.
Thanks bruski, funny that you say that when all you can see in my picture is my torso, not even including my arms or legs.
That being said, I'll be bulking for 9-10 months after I can get it down a little bit more; I know I'm not that large. It's not only for aesthetic reasons, it's also that I want to know I can get that low. Because if I can do it now, I'll know for future references what it takes to do it again.
I just wanted to add: You should take a moment to consider Fire_Rock's advice as it's always solid. My advice in this thread is that "IF" you believe you have enough lean mass to cut down to the ~10% mark then I'd do as I listed, but that "IF" is important.
I just can't assess that based on your .avi. Also depends on how lean you want to get. 10% and 8% aren't the same thing, etc.
I believe I do. Just. I'm not denying his opinion at all; I'm considerably smaller than a lot of blokes out there. But I'm also 18 and have a long time to grow. Therefore I'm happy enough, and that's all that really matters in this little world we live in, isn't it?
10% is the goal, or near enough.0 -
bump to read later0
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