Question for Vegans......

I only ever took a Multi with a lot of B-12. I managed to get enough vit D and calcium with soy milk. Check out veganstore.com for some great stuff. They have vegan vitamins. Make sure your doc knows that you have researched this and that you're not going vegan on a whim (thanks to Skinny B****-vegetarians and vegans have gotten a bad rap due to the craze). Good luck.

I recommend picking up the book "Eat to Live" by Joel Fuhrman. He explains really well how you can get the nutrients you need from a plant-based diet. It's really an interesting book, and focuses on the science and nutrition rather than the animal cruelty side of things, which your doctor might appreciate. I have been vegan for extended periods (though I am just a regular veggie right now) and never had any health problems nor taken supplements, as long as I am eating properly.

Remember that dark leafy greens have calcium, and even spinach has protein in it--the only reason it's easier to get protein from meat is because you have to eat more spinach to get the same amount of protein. Eating more has never been a problem for me--it's the eating less that's hard! Beans have a ton of protein and have the added bonus of not being a leading cause of heart disease and diabetes.

I have heard that it is harder to get enough B-12, so I can't speak to that issue because I've never really dealt with it properly myself. I believe it is addressed in the book I mentioned, though.

Another thing to consider is that a lot of old-school doctors think you need to have the old-school ratios (e.g. 30% protein) and old-school diets (like the food pyramid) to be healthy, and many have other reasons for not supporting the choice to be vegan. If you really feel like your doctor (or was it just the blood technician person?) is being unsupportive, perhaps you'd find better advice from a naturopath or even just a younger, more modern doctor.

Anyway, I don't mean to sound all militant-pro-vegan or anything (especially since I'm not even vegan!), I just thought I'd share my general thoughts on the subject.

i have toyed with the idea of going vegan. there is so much misinformation on the subject. i think being vegan may be the healthiest way to eat and live. that's what i believe from the research i have done. the research provided to the medical community is often funded by meat producers and the pharmaceutical industry, and i tend not to trust those groups! but here's some info that i have found helpful:

About Protein
The “need” for high protein is centered on fear rather than fact. The initial research on which this myth is based was done in Germany around the turn of the century and was financed mainly by the meat and dairy industries. The average American consuming animal products (meat, dairy) eats much more protein than he or she needs. What happens to the extra protein? Metabolizing protein produces toxic byproducts that the liver must process, and then it is excreted by the kidneys. Thus, too much protein intake stresses the organs. According to the American Dietetic Association, a pure vegetarian diet supplies more than the required protein for one's daily need. Harvard University researchers have found that it is practically impossible to have a vegetarian diet that produces a protein deficiency unless you're only eating sweets and other vegetarian junk food. Vegetarian protein is a lot easier for the body to digest. At Hippocrates Health Institute it was shown that the people who ate the most meat were actually more susceptible to protein deficiency. Firstly, because the body finds it so difficult to digest animal protein, it often doesn't get fully digested and instead putrefies in our intestines. Secondly, the body doesn't really know what to do with all the excess protein, so it dumps it in the basement membranes. Basement membranes are those through which nutrients and oxygen are filtered into the cells from the capillaries and through waste products of the cells are filtered out into the blood to be eliminated. The more excess protein there is in the diet, the more gets dumped in the basement membrane. Eventually, the basement membrane gets so clogged that nutrients and oxygen are not able to pass into the cells and waste products cannot be eliminated. You begin to build up toxins and wastes and you start to suffocate on a cellular level. The build-up of protein contributes to hypertension, atherosclerosis, cardiovascular disease and diabetes.

Additional information about protein:

http://www.pcrm.org/health/veginfo/protein.html

http://www.drmcdougall.com/med_hot_protein.html

About B12

B12 (also called cobalamin due to its central cobalt atom) is a water-soluble vitamin with a very low recommended daily intake requirement, about 2-3 micrograms per day. In addition to having extremely low intake requirements, Vitamin B12 is stored in the liver, kidneys, and muscle tissue, and most B12 (65-75%) is reabsorbed by the body instead of excreted. A deficiency could take from 5 to 20 years of inadequate intake to develop. There are many vegan foods fortified with B12. They include non-dairy milks, meat substitutes, breakfast cereals and some nutritional yeast. Sublingual vegan B12 supplements are also available.

My biggest recommendation is to make sure you're getting complete proteins (beans and nuts + grains, tofu, etc). If you've been a vegetarian for awhile, you should know that already. Make sure you are getting the following:

Calcium
Iron
Vitamin B12
Vitamin D

Those would be my biggest concerns, moreso than protein. Be careful about your vitamins, most off the shelf vitamins aren't coming from non-animal sources because its simply not cost-effective, especially not for B12 - so be prepared to pay a bit more for vegan supplements.

Calcium you can make up from plant sources, do your research. Spinach is awesome for iron.

Luckily as a guy I don't have to worry so much about iron.

Good luck in your ventures. Jainists have been quasi-vegans for millenia and have almost no issues. I reccomend you check out some Jainist recipes.

Just had to clear something up - just because you don't eat animal products does NOT mean you are a vegan! Vegans eschew animal products and use of anything harmful to animals (i.e.products tested on animals, non-food items with animal ingredients). We don't wear leather or wool or silk. We don't buy anything from Proctor and Gamble (evil animal testing conglomerate). We don't donate to March of Dimes (see previous). We don't kill spiders in our homes. You get the picture. So if you don't EAT animal products (usually for health reasons) you can call yourself a strict vegetarian, but not a vegan. Vegansim is a lifestyle, not a diet, and it's done for ethical reasons- the health benefits are just a wonderful side-effect! (Oh, and "my" definition of "vegan" comes from Donald Watson, the man who invented the word - he should know!)

Thanks everyone - peace!
VegGrrl

I've been veggie for many years. I'm currently transitioning to a vegan diet.

This morning I went to have my blood drawn for some food allergy testing. The allergist asked me the age old question.... "How do you get protien?" I really wasn't in the mood for this talk, so I answered bluntly.... non-animal protien sources.

She went on and on about the dangers of veganism, my not taking a calcium or vitamin D supp and how I should see a dietician.

if a cow, only eating plants, can get enough Vit D and protein to make milk containing Vit D and protein, why not just skip running the plants through the cow and just eat the plants?!

If you live in a large urban area, you might try to find a vegan or vegetarian doctor - they are usually more knowledgeable about nutrition than most MD's and don't buy into the myths and poor science propagated by the meat and dairy industries... It's great to have diet be a non-issue with your doctor! (I do understand we're not all lucky enough to have the choice to change doctors (insurance, etc) but if it's a possibility....they are out there. Well, I hope they are- in your area! We're very spoiled where I live - it's vegan/veg paradise - I imagine many cities aren't so accomodating to veggie folk, nor have such a large veg population.)

Peace-
VegGrrl

Nope, not snotty (definitely not snotty!) nor too standoffish, just an old lady who might come across that way to you young whippersnappers! <g> Sorry if I did - certainly not my intent!! Just wanted to clarify for the folks bandying the word about - the ones who aren't familiar with the lifestyle. Hey, I wasn't born vegan, and if no one ever explained it to me, I wouldn't be one today! :flowerforyou:

Peace-
VG

Okie dokie...I've been working with Holly for a while on the transition. I'm no longer vegan (although I still try to avoid many items containing animal byproducts).

I am not a Vegan but my father in law is eating a vegan diet while in end stage cancer, it slows the growth of tumors, supposedly. Anywho, he had some radiation to prevent growth of one particular brain tumor giving him migraines and destroying his vision in the left eye (otherwise he's against traditional chemo and radiation, for himself that is.)

The radiation left him with a pretty severe weight loss and I did some online research. I saw there are two very good vegan based (really, not just in title) sprouted grain protein shakes available if your concerned about protein and B. One is Hemp seed (sprouted) based and the other used 12 other sprouted grains to achieve the same.

Both are gluten, dairy, soy and animal free and can be mixed into a fruit or veggie smoothie. If you're interested I'll dig up the links and send them to you.

Hey, just thought I'd chuck in my 2c. I commend you for thinking bout this and trying to make this change, it can be really good at times. Definatly keep up the nutrient rich green leafy vegetables. They are definatly your friend. Also mushrooms are a good one as they have zinc. Zinc isn't really one you have to watch, but its improtant to make sure you have some high zinc foods that you eat fairly regularily, cause it also helps with the absorption of other nutrients.

Also your already vego so I'm sure you understand the protein sources, legumes etc. etc. Just a reminder to not depend too heavily on soy based products. for a while there I was having a very high soy diet, as being both time and money poor TVP became a very common food for me. Refined soy, like refined everything else is pretty bad for you, so just keep an eye on that one, temeh and fermented or whole soy products are pretty sweet, things a bit more processes like tofu and soy milk need to be watch, and then your fake meats, TVP etc need to be a sometimes food at most. So while they are some of the best places to get calcium etc. Also maybe check out other diary alternatives too once in a while, most of them are fortified with calcium these days and it will stop soy taking over your diet.

Good luck thought, I hope you enjoy the difference

I got the results of my food allergy testing. The foods that must be cut out of my diet are:

Eggs
Corn
Milk
Walnuts
Yogurt
Barley
Cheese
Peanuts
Wheat
Greenbeans
Gluten
Rye
Yeast (Brewer and baker)
Malt
Tomato

:noway: :noway: :noway: :noway: :noway: :noway:
:ohwell:

Wow. This is going to require very careful planning!

All I can say is thank God that soy didn't make that list.