Caveman Did Not Have a Long Life Span - Why Eat Like One?
Replies
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For what is probably the 1st time in history, starting in '09. In many counties across the U. S., babies won't be living longer than their parents. Obviously, our current diet isn't working either.
Eta, the caveman diet is simply eating unprocessed foods. I think common sense dictates that a baked potato is better than fries or potato chips0 -
If I hear another person going Paleo wearing designer jeans
I don't understand how not eating crap has anything to do with what you wear?
I don't follow the Paleo diet, although I do try to minimise refined carbs, but the majority of the diet makes sense from a biological point of view as far as I can see.
Hmmm. I guess I see it as stupid. I don't know what else to say. If you want to be a cave man because they are so superior, than go be one and shut up. Go kill animals with a spear or rock and eat them raw or whatever cave people did. But don't stand there in your $200 loafers and $250 designers jeans and talk to me about the superiority of what cave people ate. There was nothing superior about what they ate. It was all they had available. It wasn't a choice they made.0 -
So this is something I've been curious about. I think I need to just read the book. Some people swear by the paleo diet. However, the lifespan back then was about one-third of the lifespan today. So why is it a good idea to emulate that diet?
Plus, another thing I wonder is - people lived all over the world with very varied diets - depending on where they lived and the climate and what was abundant there. Why is a certain supposedly "paleo" diet chosen?
The whole idea just does not pass the common sense test to me. Ok, have at me all you paleo lovers!
I think they didn't live long because dinosaurs ate them while they were hunting. It has nothing to do with the actual diet of the cavemen.0 -
If I hear another person going Paleo wearing designer jeans
I don't understand how not eating crap has anything to do with what you wear?
I don't follow the Paleo diet, although I do try to minimise refined carbs, but the majority of the diet makes sense from a biological point of view as far as I can see.
Hmmm. I guess I see it as stupid. I don't know what else to say. If you want to be a cave man because they are so superior, than go be one and shut up. Go kill animals with a spear or rock and eat them raw or whatever cave people did. But don't stand there in your $200 loafers and $250 designers jeans and talk to me about the superiority of what cave people ate. There was nothing superior about what they ate. It was all they had available. It wasn't a choice they made.
Wow. No one said it was more superior. You can see it however you want, no need to be harsh on people.0 -
The paleo diet isn't meant to make you like a caveman; it's based around the idea that our food sources have changed rapidly and drastically in the last ten thousand years while our digestive systems have not evolved to adapt to those changes. Anatomically modern humans have been around for about two hundred thousand years. Agriculture first appeared only ten thousand years ago. And industrialization of food has been only a couple hundred years. Our diets today do not resemble the ones we evolved to eat.
Paleo came from this idea that we'd be healthier if we ate what we evolved to eat, rather than what has very recently become available. Unfortunately, it's become somewhat of a misnomer in this regard and is simply a meat-heavy, grain-free diet. Realistically, the first humans would have subsisted mostly on flowers, fruits, leaves, and roots but eaten meat in large quantities whenever available. They also went days without eating anything at all until something became available.
At its simplest, paleo is really a no-brainer. It makes perfect sense to give the body what it has adapted to need. As to the vehement paleo-diet advocates, there's often more anecdotal than scientific evidence (as with most diets).
Human beings did NOT stop evolving ten thousand years ago. Evolution continues, the same as it ever did.0 -
Think of all the things we have now that are increasing our life span: modern medicine, plumbing, dental care, law enforcement, etc. THESE are the reasons we live longer than the cavemen. It's certainly not our superior modern diet.
Perfectly said.0 -
Think of all the things we have now that are increasing our life span: modern medicine, plumbing, dental care, law enforcement, etc. THESE are the reasons we live longer than the cavemen. It's certainly not our superior modern diet.
These are my thoughts exactly!0 -
Hmmm. I guess I see it as stupid. I don't know what else to say. If you want to be a cave man because they are so superior, than go be one and shut up. Go kill animals with a spear or rock and eat them raw or whatever cave people did. But don't stand there in your $200 loafers and $250 designers jeans and talk to me about the superiority of what cave people ate. There was nothing superior about what they ate. It was all they had available. It wasn't a choice they made.
> Yes. The highly educated do tend to be 'yuppies', but that doesn't suggest that they're wrong.0 -
Not taking a side - just seemed like the appropriate place for this. :drinker:0 -
Whatever happened to raw diets?
Did they get thrown under the bus?0 -
Hmmm. I guess I see it as stupid. I don't know what else to say. If you want to be a cave man because they are so superior, than go be one and shut up. Go kill animals with a spear or rock and eat them raw or whatever cave people did. But don't stand there in your $200 loafers and $250 designers jeans and talk to me about the superiority of what cave people ate. There was nothing superior about what they ate. It was all they had available. It wasn't a choice they made.
> Yes. The highly educated do tend to be 'yuppies', but that doesn't suggest that they're wrong.
Lol. Ok. Since we know a lot about nutrition, why not just use that knowledge and eat healthfully. It's simple.0 -
It's certainly not our superior modern diet.
My modern diet is far superior!
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Life span then was due more to environmental hazards, predators, lack of medicince, infant mortality etc - But, health problems such as obesity, diabetes, etc were not as prevelant.
The premise of the plan is that physiologically we are not much different in our nutritional needs than then and most of our issues area result of our overprocessed non-natural GMO food supply.
In terms of diet, the focus is eating whole natural foods such as meat, fish, eggs, vegetables, and fruit. How is that not healthy?
Yes - yes - yes......eating a Paleo lifestyle does not mean we only eat meat......talking for myself I eat truckloads of vegetables, salads, fruit - and yes - healthy portions of protein.....
90% of what I eat does not come from containers with labels - it comes straight from the farm (or as close as possible) my vegetables comes straight from the farmers market - my meat from an organic butcher that sells grass fed meat, and my fish from the fish market that is 500 meters from the wharf where the boats come in...... That is what eating a Paleo lifestyle means to me....
Why on earth do I need over processed pasta, bread etc with tons of preservatives in them??0 -
Lol. From a socioeconomic standpoint, I qualify as a "highly educated yuppie." But my diet is far from Paleo. And I don't wear designer jeans. Guess I've got enough critical thinking skills to see through bogus marketing hype :laugh:
Hmmm. I guess I see it as stupid. I don't know what else to say. If you want to be a cave man because they are so superior, than go be one and shut up. Go kill animals with a spear or rock and eat them raw or whatever cave people did. But don't stand there in your $200 loafers and $250 designers jeans and talk to me about the superiority of what cave people ate. There was nothing superior about what they ate. It was all they had available. It wasn't a choice they made.
> Yes. The highly educated do tend to be 'yuppies', but that doesn't suggest that they're wrong.0 -
Of course we didn't stop evolving; I didn't say we did. It's undeniable though that biological evolution is nowhere near the pace of technological innovation.The paleo diet isn't meant to make you like a caveman; it's based around the idea that our food sources have changed rapidly and drastically in the last ten thousand years while our digestive systems have not evolved to adapt to those changes. Anatomically modern humans have been around for about two hundred thousand years. Agriculture first appeared only ten thousand years ago. And industrialization of food has been only a couple hundred years. Our diets today do not resemble the ones we evolved to eat.
Paleo came from this idea that we'd be healthier if we ate what we evolved to eat, rather than what has very recently become available. Unfortunately, it's become somewhat of a misnomer in this regard and is simply a meat-heavy, grain-free diet. Realistically, the first humans would have subsisted mostly on flowers, fruits, leaves, and roots but eaten meat in large quantities whenever available. They also went days without eating anything at all until something became available.
At its simplest, paleo is really a no-brainer. It makes perfect sense to give the body what it has adapted to need. As to the vehement paleo-diet advocates, there's often more anecdotal than scientific evidence (as with most diets).
Human beings did NOT stop evolving ten thousand years ago. Evolution continues, the same as it ever did.0 -
cave men also didnt have alot of the modern day medicine and skills that we have today. i bet millions of cavemen died from hang nails and crap like that. lol. just not knowing about infections or how to treat simple illnesses etc. hygene was probly not on theur top 10 list of things to do every day.
Time to read Clan of the Cave Bear series 0 -
Bump0
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The paleo diet isn't meant to make you like a caveman; it's based around the idea that our food sources have changed rapidly and drastically in the last ten thousand years while our digestive systems have not evolved to adapt to those changes. Anatomically modern humans have been around for about two hundred thousand years. Agriculture first appeared only ten thousand years ago. And industrialization of food has been only a couple hundred years. Our diets today do not resemble the ones we evolved to eat.
Paleo came from this idea that we'd be healthier if we ate what we evolved to eat, rather than what has very recently become available. Unfortunately, it's become somewhat of a misnomer in this regard and is simply a meat-heavy, grain-free diet. Realistically, the first humans would have subsisted mostly on flowers, fruits, leaves, and roots but eaten meat in large quantities whenever available. They also went days without eating anything at all until something became available.
At its simplest, paleo is really a no-brainer. It makes perfect sense to give the body what it has adapted to need. As to the vehement paleo-diet advocates, there's often more anecdotal than scientific evidence (as with most diets).
Not to mention that Diabetes, Crohn's Disease, Ulcers, most cancers and a slew of other illnesses and ailments were very rare and didn't become common in human history until our diets became laden with sugar and garbage carbs/processed foods. I'd rather die with a sabertoothed tiger eating my face than Ronald McDonald eating my liver0 -
I eat Primal which is Paleo but also dairy. I choose to eat this way because I much prefer to put fresh wholesome foodstuff into my body. I don't eat anything prepackaged. I eat loads of fresh veg, berries and protein but as few carbs as possible. It is simply a lifestyle choice I made, and I have no intention of forcing others to agree with me. This is simply a way of eating that suits me and my body. I personally have no need to eat carbs, especially simple carbs, and all grains make me feel lethargic and ill, so I am only following what my body is telling me. No one should be forced into anything, we all make our own choices, and so we should.0
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It's a fad - and one not based remotely on what is generally accepted to have been the standard 'caveman' (a completely unscientific term, btw') diet.
To me it seems to be a license to gorge on meat; the calories from animal protein consumed in the modern paleo diet are far in excess of the expected meat availability of paleolithic humans. Mostly they would have been vegetarian, scavenging on carrion and occasionally hunting successfully - rather like the diet of a modern large omnivore.
And it would have included long stretches of extremely low calorie availability - the total intake for an adult would have routinely been less than 1000 kcal per day, and not uncommonly 0 (OMG - they all had starvation mode!!!!). Unless modern 'caveman' adherents include either VLCD or long periods of fasting, they are not remotely approximating a paleolithic diet. But most ancestral humans were also not troglodytes, so accuracy is probably not a primary concern.
Eating less processed foods is a great plan, and it works for many people. But it isn't a 'caveman' diet, so don't worry about trying to figure out the lifespan and related inaccuracies.0 -
We know what doesn't work, why not try something that might?
My dietary framework is Paleo/Primal, I don't see that avoiding potential toxins and eating nutrient-dense food as close to nature as possible is a bad aim.
It's only a framework though, I don't obsess about whether something is or isn't Paleo ... I like ice cream.
The 80/20 rule will keep me sane(ish).0 -
It's a fad<snip>
Yup, a 2 million year old fad.To me it seems to be a license to gorge on meat <snip>
Then you don't understand Paleo, this isn't just the original Atkins with piles of steak, too much protein does not work.
Most people who eat this way have WAY more veggies in their diet than they used to.
Sometimes I think the whole 'caveman' analogy hinders more than it helps ...0 -
Yay another thread dismissing someone eles'es personal preference!
Or they died at an earlier age due to many many many different environmental factors. We also have this thing called....health care now.0 -
Not to mention that Diabetes, Crohn's Disease, Ulcers, most cancers and a slew of other illnesses and ailments were very rare and didn't become common in human history until our diets became laden with sugar and garbage carbs/processed foods. I'd rather die with a sabertoothed tiger eating my face than Ronald McDonald eating my liver
No, that is about 'detection probability' - there were no doctors around (in 'caveman' times) to diagnose any of those ailments - that's not to say they didn't exist. There would have been 'sickly' humans and strong ones - but there would have been no way to determine what caused some to be sickly and weak. Cancer, Diabetes (Type 1), and many other diseases did not magically appear with the advent of white bread and canned beans.
Also, the image of that freaky McD clown eating your liver is deeply disturbing...... Thanks!! :laugh:0 -
It's a fad<snip>
Yup, a 2 million year old fad.To me it seems to be a license to gorge on meat <snip>
Then you don't understand Paleo, this isn't just the original Atkins with piles of steak, too much protein does not work.
Most people who eat this way have WAY more veggies in their diet than they used to.
Sometimes I think the whole 'caveman' analogy hinders more than it helps ...
Absolutely spot on true. My diet is far and away more veggies and fruit than meat. Today I have had one smallish sized lamb steak, but cabbage, cauliflower, green beans, leeks, brussel sprouts, strawberries, raspberries, blackberries and blueberries. So it isn't an overly meat heavy way to eat, more a clean eating plan with no grains, and if you're 100% Paleo no dairy. I eat dairy, so am Primal.0 -
Is there some MFP rule that says there has to be one Paleo train wreck a day :huh: Seems like the OP is trolling
If you don't agree with the Paleo/Primal principles and you can't read past the caveman analogy then don't do it. I find it sad how quickly some people are willing to put down something that they obviously have little to no knowledge about or they have never tried.0 -
Not to mention that Diabetes, Crohn's Disease, Ulcers, most cancers and a slew of other illnesses and ailments were very rare and didn't become common in human history until our diets became laden with sugar and garbage carbs/processed foods. I'd rather die with a sabertoothed tiger eating my face than Ronald McDonald eating my liver
No, that is about 'detection probability' - there were no doctors around (in 'caveman' times) to diagnose any of those ailments - that's not to say they didn't exist. There would have been 'sickly' humans and strong ones - but there would have been no way to determine what caused some to be sickly and weak. Cancer, Diabetes (Type 1), and many other diseases did not magically appear with the advent of white bread and canned beans.
Also, the image of that freaky McD clown eating your liver is deeply disturbing...... Thanks!! :laugh:
I understand what you are saying and I think that is accurate to a point. Genetic testing by hundreds of antropologist and scientist has shown that early man did not have a majority of these diseases. An even better example is that breast cancer was almost non existant in the japanese culture untill they started raising cows and consuming cows milk. Pretty interesting...0 -
I understand what you are saying and I think that is accurate to a point. Genetic testing by hundreds of antropologist and scientist has shown that early man did not have a majority of these diseases. An even better example is that breast cancer was almost non existant in the japanese culture untill they started raising cows and consuming cows milk. Pretty interesting...
Can you quote some sources for these two assertions? About genetic testing - firstly, we generally do not know what genes in modern humans are linked (a causative link) to cancer, except for one or two (the BRC gene and breast cancer risk, for example). Secondly, it is rather difficult to recover uncontaminated genetic material from ancient remains - it's possible but not common. It seems unlikely, therefore, that an exhaustive survey of ancient humans' cancer makers has been done in the way your suggest. Even remains from 2-300 years ago present many practical problems for gene screens.
About the Japanese milk/cancer link - it is my understanding that there has never been a definitive link between any food and breast cancer. Add to that the high proportion on lactose intolerance among asian adults (so milk consumption is generally low), and that the primary proponent of this theory is a woman who stopped eating dairy but also underwent traditional chemotherapy during her cancer treatment, and I find this case to be weakly supported.
If you do have the sources, I would be grateful if you could post them though. Thanks.0 -
So this is something I've been curious about. I think I need to just read the book. Some people swear by the paleo diet. However, the lifespan back then was about one-third of the lifespan today. So why is it a good idea to emulate that diet?
Plus, another thing I wonder is - people lived all over the world with very varied diets - depending on where they lived and the climate and what was abundant there. Why is a certain supposedly "paleo" diet chosen?
The whole idea just does not pass the common sense test to me. Ok, have at me all you paleo lovers!
You are right on! Paleolithic people did eat all sorts of different thinks in the past --- including oh my gosh - GRAINS!!!!
The argument that the modern Paleolithic diet has anything to do with what past people ate is flawed.
If people find that when they follow this diet they get benefits then good for them.
If you are happy with your current diet then do not feel pressured to follow along with this latest fad. I wouldn't waste your money on books about it. If you are cuirious there is plenty of free info about it on the web.
I personally think though restricting certain food groups unless you have an allergy or intolerance is not a good idea - not very sustainable and you could miss out on certain nutrients easily.0 -
Whoa! People sure get snippy about their carbs! LOL!
Eh, just eat clean. Paleo or not, do what works for you. Personally I eat as clean as I can and try my best to eat low Glycemic (for health reasons) but I love quinoa too much to let it go right now - not to mention Ezekiel bread :-)0
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