Info on Ketosis (low carbs) good & bad vs Ketoacidosis

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Okay. I wanted to post some information about Ketosis and Ketoacidosis and how they relate to low carb diets. This is simply to give public awareness to the differences because I got into a disagreement over it and I'd rather people just know what both are and how they affect your weight loss/health as well. This is what I know and I will say when it is into my opinion as well, but this is what it means and other things that have worked for me when I exercise/diet.

Ketoacidosis is something most people would not have happen, unless they're diabetic. Ketoacidosis happens when there are low insulin levels in your blood. Quote (stolen from wise geek lol): "Ketoacidosis is a state of toxicity in which there are elevated levels of acids called ketones in the blood. This condition occurs when insulin levels are too low and the liver attempts to restore energy by metabolizing fats and proteins due to a lack of available carbohydrates. Since ketone acids slowly degrade into acetone, the breath often smells fruity or similar to nail polish remover. Without immediate medical attention, this condition can induce a diabetic coma and, possibly, death."

So, basically this relates to carbohydrates, proteins and your liver, but not in the same way as ketosis.

Ketosis, however, may be something it is important for anyone on a diet to know about, especially if they consider a diet like Atkins, or any low carb diet. Ketosis occurs when there is a low intake of carbohydrates. The discussion about this is often one about how risks weigh against benefits of such a diet, as well as what "term" (long/short) is okay. Your body naturally runs on a lot of carbs and protein, so if you are low on carbs/protein, you will often lose muscle mass until your body starts ketosis. What happens is that because your brain needs either glucose or ketones to function, when your liver processes/uses body fat for energy it releases ketones that are produced from those fatty acids into your system. Something I just learned while reading more to check everything I know is that it can be used for treatment of epilepsy, under very close supervision, but also can cause "dehydration, constipation, and occasionally kidney stones or gall stones".

"Very high ketone levels can be toxic, making the blood more acid, and may damage such organs as the kidneys and liver.

The human body tries to lower acetone (a ketone) levels by breathing it out, causing a sweet and fruity breath. We also reduce keytone levels by expelling them through our urine"

Then, on the positive side, if monitored, diets such as Atkins can work, but even Dr. Atkins says that when ketones are monitored to keep them at a certain level, it will keep the person from negative side affects and hunger, so I would say it is best to research first or at least know the risks. While, yes, it may just be a "possibility", I find it to be important to know possibilities like this when I start a new diet plan. They also say it may help certain conditions (like epilepsy or hypertension), but I have had a negative experience with ketosis in the past, while pregnant, so I think it is best to be informed. Now, on a side note, I posted 3 diets the other day and out of all three a low carb diet was said to increase the risk of heart disease because it caused a certain hormone to be released more, but it also burned the most calories, so under a short period of time it may be useful. The other two diets were low fat and one with more natural foods and a relative balance of protein carbs and fats. The low fat one burned the least, with low carb burning about 300+ calories more per day and natural foods burning smack in the middle, about 150calories more than low fat diets. So, that is what I know for sure and it is really a debate in the medical field at the moment. I personally stand against anything we don't know enough about, but if it is that much more effective I say do what you feel is best for you. It seems to me that everyone works better on certain diets. I may lose weight on a diet of natural foods with equal fat & protein %, but you may need low fat, or I may lose on junk food and you may not be able to, etc.

Either way, I wish everyone luck and just wanted to get this out there because I see a lot about "Why should I eat more?", some of "Carbs are evil!", "Carbs are not evil!". lol
This is often the "starvation mode" people mention. However, other reasons to stall/plateau with weight-loss I have been told are that when you eat the same amount per day your body has a weight it gets comfortable at and often can stop losing the pounds. I actually find this to be true because when I calorie cycle (eat an average of the same calories per day for the week, but eat a little one day and a lot the next) I don't get stuck at all when I diet, but when I eat 1500 calories per day or some other solid number I lose less. I also believe in the theory that our bodies have a natural number (or set of numbers) they gravitate to or work better at, which is why we end up back there, because when I gain weight I often get stuck at the same numbers 185, 169, 145, or 130 are my most common weights from the past. This is mostly opinion, the beginning parts were scientific theories, but the ending is mostly my experience. No undies in a bunch necessary, but this is my understanding of these topics. I'd love to hear any experiences of dieting that agrees or disagrees with these ideas. I think any information from real experiences can help people on their journey.

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  • firstsip
    firstsip Posts: 8,399 Member
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    Just commenting to say that I like seeing quoted/cited information, and any anecdotal information with the disclaimer, "This is just opinion, not scientific." ;)

    Just adding that many hormones conditions generally get put on "low carb" (not necessarily ketosis diets... more like 180g of lower instead of the 20~100g range), such as hypothyroidism, PCOS, etc.
  • Verity1111
    Verity1111 Posts: 3,309 Member
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    Just commenting to say that I like seeing quoted/cited information, and any anecdotal information with the disclaimer, "This is just opinion, not scientific." ;)

    Just adding that many hormones conditions generally get put on "low carb" (not necessarily ketosis diets... more like 180g of lower instead of the 20~100g range), such as hypothyroidism, PCOS, etc.
    Thanks and cool I didn't know what other conditions used it :] I am too much of a worry wart so I just stick to my normal one for now. I had some issues when I was eating less carbs and releasing the ketones in my urine and I was not diabetic, but I was having weird symptoms, so I know for me it doesn't work. I also know that what works for me may not work for you, which is exactly the point of this post. It may work for some, but not others, so you need to "know your stuff" so to speak lol
  • joyfulinga
    joyfulinga Posts: 17 Member
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    I had gastric bypass surgery in June 2008. My oldest son passed away suddenly in Dec. 2010 and I just didn't prioritize my health. I have experienced regain and am working to keep it under control. My surgeon stresses the limiting of carbs. It is pretty strict. I also have to get a minimum of 70 grams protein daily. I monitor it here on MFP. I find that when I'm limitin my carbs, I have much more energy and do not experience the drop in blood sugar I have when I did the lower calorie thing. My situation isn't typical due to a sugically altered digestive system so I'm not saying this is the best path for everyone. I just know that gastric bypass patients are encouraged to eat lean meats, cheeses, eggs, vegetables that are not starchy, etc. Another guideline is not to eat anything "white". No white bread, white rice, sugar, soda or other carbonated drinks.

    I'm no doctor but this way of eating is what my surgeon recommends to keep losing. Once I get near my goal I will "slowly" add back "good" carbs but will stay away from the no-no's forever. I don't feel good when I eat them so that is pretty easy. That is my experience with restricting carbs.
  • Verity1111
    Verity1111 Posts: 3,309 Member
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    I had gastric bypass surgery in June 2008. My oldest son passed away suddenly in Dec. 2010 and I just didn't prioritize my health. I have experienced regain and am working to keep it under control. My surgeon stresses the limiting of carbs. It is pretty strict. I also have to get a minimum of 70 grams protein daily. I monitor it here on MFP. I find that when I'm limitin my carbs, I have much more energy and do not experience the drop in blood sugar I have when I did the lower calorie thing. My situation isn't typical due to a sugically altered digestive system so I'm not saying this is the best path for everyone. I just know that gastric bypass patients are encouraged to eat lean meats, cheeses, eggs, vegetables that are not starchy, etc. Another guideline is not to eat anything "white". No white bread, white rice, sugar, soda or other carbonated drinks.

    I'm no doctor but this way of eating is what my surgeon recommends to keep losing. Once I get near my goal I will "slowly" add back "good" carbs but will stay away from the no-no's forever. I don't feel good when I eat them so that is pretty easy. That is my experience with restricting carbs.
    That is exactly what I mean and why I wanted to hear experiences from other people. I know it can be good for some people and not so good for other people. I think good cards are those in vegetables and fruit especially and more of those not so natural breads and pastries make us feel so run down you know? :] Thank you for the information! I also hear low carb makes you lose more weight at a quicker pace.
  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
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    The two conditions are more clearly separated by the numbers - nutritional ketosis involves levels of ketones that are typically less than 2 mmol/l associated with normal or low blood glucose levels (<6 mmol/l) and standard blood pH. It's a standard condition of human physiology experienced when fasting for a length of time.

    (Diabetic) Ketoacidosis involves much higher levels of ketones, >5 mmol/l combined with high blood glucose levels and reduced blood pH. http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/118361-overview
  • Verity1111
    Verity1111 Posts: 3,309 Member
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    The two conditions are more clearly separated by the numbers - nutritional ketosis involves levels of ketones that are typically less than 2 mmol/l associated with normal or low blood glucose levels (<6 mmol/l) and standard blood pH. It's a standard condition of human physiology experienced when fasting for a length of time.

    (Diabetic) Ketoacidosis involves much higher levels of ketones, >5 mmol/l combined with high blood glucose levels and reduced blood pH. http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/118361-overview
    Yep very true! I didn't know the exact numbers, but as I stated it is a very high level for Ketoacidosis. I will say, however, when I had ketosis going on I was still more tired than usual, ill feeling in general, plus I had pain in my abdomen for some reason. I noticed all of that lessened as I ate more food in general and more carbs because I had cut them out a lot. I would assume it happened quicker that time (it happened to me twice) because I was pregnant and really paranoid about pounds. I eventually got my mind together and did it a better way, but my carbs were way too low for a few weeks or more, not sure the exact days.