Consequenses of consistently overconsuming fat
Replies
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I'm having 321g of fat today, and not worried about it at all.
Chillax bro
' mirin.0 -
thank you for replying, your advice seems sound to me but I'm not as much concerned about my health as I am about the adverse effects this might have on my physical performance.
I was hoping someone could tell me the effect of substituting carbs with fat on musclegrowth just as I could tell you that underconsuming protein will have adverse effects on protein synthesis.
While good fats (you know what they are) are essential to avoid depleting essential fatty acids in the body, excessive animal fat has been associated with higher levels of inflammation in the body. However, that might not be the direct result of consuming animal fat but be due to the synchronous consumption of another substance (like arachidonic acid) that "rides along" with animal fat. But, in general, it is likely best to avoid going overboard on animal fat. Lean beef is a nutrition bonanza in many ways---bacon, not so much. As for carbohydrates, if you are working out intensely on a regular basis, you must eat enough "good carbohydrates" (starchy vegetables, fruits and whole grains) to avoid catabolizing your muscles. In general, a minimum of 100 grams of carbohydrate is needed to spare one's muscle mass (with light exercise). 200 grams is typically needed (depending on the individual's LBM--lean body mass) with moderate exercise (150 minutes of mild to brisk activity) and high-intensity exercise that is done for more than 200 minutes a week needs even more carbohydrates (but again, it should be health-building carbs and not sugar, starch or other non-nutritional food).0 -
What rate are you gaining bodyweight at? I'm not concerned with your fat intake, but that's seems high for total energy intake.
What's your TDEE and rate of gain at this intake?
The last 17 weeks I have been gaining 150grams per week. I am currently at 3600 kcal/day but this has increased troughout my bulk. I've done a OLC linear regression of my weekly data (kcal intake and weightchange) and got the model DELTAWEIGHT = -7.3 * 0.002 KCAL.
According to this model my TDEE is 3650 but I find this number to be a gross overestimation. I'd say it's more like 3400-3500.
And yeah, I'm also a bit concerned that the total fatintake is a bit high.
Rate of gain is actually a touch low, wow. Strong TDEE.
I'm still not concerned with your fat intake but if you feel better going lower, knock out another 20g or so and stuff more pro or CHO down your gullet. I wouldn't reduce cals though, if anything I'd add slightly.
Allright, thank you for your advice m8.
But would you be able to theorize on what kind of adverse effects an out of whack carb/fat ratio could have on musclegains?
The best I personally can come up with is that my glycogen levels isn't whatn they should be and thus lowering my protein synthesis. But this is coming straight out of my *kitten* and i'd love if someone could get me straight on this.0 -
225g protein x 4 = 900k
100g fat x 9 = 900k
450g carbs x 4 = 1800k
3600 daily calories
That's a lot of calories to be taking in every day, even for a very large person. If you're not doing large amounts of very heavy weight training almost every single day, you're going to have a very hard time making progress with that kind of intake IMO.
More likely, you'll either stay about the same or put on additional fat.
I'm not overly concerned about the level of fat in particular, but I'd say you're getting too much of everything with this plan.
edit - just noticed you said you're bulking, so never mind....0 -
225g protein x 4 = 900k
100g fat x 9 = 900k
450g carbs x 4 = 1800k
3600 daily calories
That's a lot of calories to be taking in every day, even for a very large person. If you're not doing large amounts of very heavy weight training almost every single day, you're going to have a very hard time making progress with that kind of intake IMO.
More likely, you'll either stay about the same or put on additional fat.
I'm not overly concerned about the level of fat in particular, but I'd say you're getting too much of everything with this plan.
edit - just noticed you said you're bulking, so never mind....
I thank you for trying but you are flat out wrong in almost everything you say.
edit: just saw your edit lol
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What rate are you gaining bodyweight at? I'm not concerned with your fat intake, but that's seems high for total energy intake.
What's your TDEE and rate of gain at this intake?
The last 17 weeks I have been gaining 150grams per week. I am currently at 3600 kcal/day but this has increased troughout my bulk. I've done a OLC linear regression of my weekly data (kcal intake and weightchange) and got the model DELTAWEIGHT = -7.3 * 0.002 KCAL.
According to this model my TDEE is 3650 but I find this number to be a gross overestimation. I'd say it's more like 3400-3500.
And yeah, I'm also a bit concerned that the total fatintake is a bit high.
Rate of gain is actually a touch low, wow. Strong TDEE.
I'm still not concerned with your fat intake but if you feel better going lower, knock out another 20g or so and stuff more pro or CHO down your gullet. I wouldn't reduce cals though, if anything I'd add slightly.
Allright, thank you for your advice m8.
But would you be able to theorize on what kind of adverse effects an out of whack carb/fat ratio could have on musclegains?
The best I personally can come up with is that my glycogen levels isn't whatn they should be and thus lowering my protein synthesis. But this is coming straight out of my *kitten* and i'd love if someone could get me straight on this.
I would be dumbfounded if 450g CHO was insufficient for you to keep glycogen up. But that being said given your massive TDEE you really have craptons of room to move things around. You probably only NEED about 160ish protein and I'd not go any lower that about 70 fat. That leaves you a freakin stupid amount of space for carbs.
Since you sound concerned I'd just drop fat to 80 and bump carbs up to 500. Not because I think your fat is too high, but it might ease your mind and your mins are still easily being met. Could also drop protein in favor of even more CHO if you want.
Of course this assumes you're not on dat cell tech.0 -
What rate are you gaining bodyweight at? I'm not concerned with your fat intake, but that's seems high for total energy intake.
What's your TDEE and rate of gain at this intake?
The last 17 weeks I have been gaining 150grams per week. I am currently at 3600 kcal/day but this has increased troughout my bulk. I've done a OLC linear regression of my weekly data (kcal intake and weightchange) and got the model DELTAWEIGHT = -7.3 * 0.002 KCAL.
According to this model my TDEE is 3650 but I find this number to be a gross overestimation. I'd say it's more like 3400-3500.
And yeah, I'm also a bit concerned that the total fatintake is a bit high.
Rate of gain is actually a touch low, wow. Strong TDEE.
I'm still not concerned with your fat intake but if you feel better going lower, knock out another 20g or so and stuff more pro or CHO down your gullet. I wouldn't reduce cals though, if anything I'd add slightly.
Allright, thank you for your advice m8.
But would you be able to theorize on what kind of adverse effects an out of whack carb/fat ratio could have on musclegains?
The best I personally can come up with is that my glycogen levels isn't whatn they should be and thus lowering my protein synthesis. But this is coming straight out of my *kitten* and i'd love if someone could get me straight on this.
I highly, highly doubt that you have depleted glycogen at 450g daily. It doesn't take much to spark protein synthesis. I think it's more likely that if you're not gaining what you think you should be, that you've underestimated your TDEE. All of the calculation methods are just estimates- first it's an estimate of BMR, and then multiplied by an estimated activity coefficient, and then add in an estimated exercise burn. If any of those things is off, you may not get expected results. Have you ever experimented with your calories to find your *true* maintenance? As in, monitored calories closely for a period of time while maintaining?0 -
And also if I had your TDEE I would get Pop Tarts to officially sponsor me.0
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Allright, guess I can stop feeling bad about not always hitting my macros
MoreBean13: I've estimated my TDEE by doing a Ordinary Least Squares regression on weekly bodyweightchange and average weekly kcal intake with 17 observations. I think this model will become less and less acurate as I gain weight since adding lean muscle tissue and fat will also increase my metabolism as i understand it.0 -
No one has mentioned it yet, but have you considered the possibility of a ridiculously large tapeworm living inside you? Or perhaps some medical condition that prevents absorption of calories? Or that you're actually an alien?0
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No one has mentioned it yet, but have you considered the possibility of a ridiculously large tapeworm living inside you? Or perhaps some medical condition that prevents absorption of calories? Or that you're actually an alien?
My steady, natural wieght before starting to hit the gym was 60 kilos for the longest time. And if I don't forcefeed myself daily I tend to drift down towards that number per default.I guess 3500 tdee is above average but from my experience on the internetz there are alot of ppl like me who find gaining weight way harder than loosing.0 -
And also if I had your TDEE I would get Pop Tarts to officially sponsor me.
:drinker:0 -
Allright, guess I can stop feeling bad about not always hitting my macros
MoreBean13: I've estimated my TDEE by doing a Ordinary Least Squares regression on weekly bodyweightchange and average weekly kcal intake with 17 observations. I think this model will become less and less acurate as I gain weight since adding lean muscle tissue and fat will also increase my metabolism as i understand it.
The actual metabolism change isn't all that impressive. It's like somewhere in the 6-9 cals/lb/day range depending on what research you look at. HOWEVER, heavy strength training will give you a boost, it's the actual act of repair that uses the calories, rather than the additional burn from the muscle. The harder you tear it up, the more calories you'll use repairing it afterwards.0 -
Eating fat doesn't make you fat. Eating too many carbs makes you fat.0
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Eating fat doesn't make you fat. Eating too many carbs makes you fat.
Excess calories make you fat regardless of the substrate.0 -
Allright, guess I can stop feeling bad about not always hitting my macros
MoreBean13: I've estimated my TDEE by doing a Ordinary Least Squares regression on weekly bodyweightchange and average weekly kcal intake with 17 observations. I think this model will become less and less acurate as I gain weight since adding lean muscle tissue and fat will also increase my metabolism as i understand it.
The actual metabolism change isn't all that impressive. It's like somewhere in the 6-9 cals/lb/day range depending on what research you look at. HOWEVER, heavy strength training will give you a boost, it's the actual act of repair that uses the calories, rather than the additional burn from the muscle. The harder you tear it up, the more calories you'll use repairing it afterwards.
Aha, so maintaining an added amount of muscle isn't very energy intensive but repairing that added amount will have a greater effect on metabolism. Didn't know about that distinction, but on the other hand I have no plans to stop working out anytime soon so :P Would you happen to know how to factor in this cumulative factor into a multivariate regression by any chance?0 -
I wish I could be all smart and give you an answer, but I can't. No idea. I would love to see your spreadsheet though.Allright, guess I can stop feeling bad about not always hitting my macros
MoreBean13: I've estimated my TDEE by doing a Ordinary Least Squares regression on weekly bodyweightchange and average weekly kcal intake with 17 observations. I think this model will become less and less acurate as I gain weight since adding lean muscle tissue and fat will also increase my metabolism as i understand it.
The actual metabolism change isn't all that impressive. It's like somewhere in the 6-9 cals/lb/day range depending on what research you look at. HOWEVER, heavy strength training will give you a boost, it's the actual act of repair that uses the calories, rather than the additional burn from the muscle. The harder you tear it up, the more calories you'll use repairing it afterwards.
Aha, so maintaining an added amount of muscle isn't very energy intensive but repairing that added amount will have a greater effect on metabolism. Didn't know about that distinction, but on the other hand I have no plans to stop working out anytime soon so :P Would you happen to know how to factor in this cumulative factor into a multivariate regression by any chance?0 -
Allright, guess I can stop feeling bad about not always hitting my macros
MoreBean13: I've estimated my TDEE by doing a Ordinary Least Squares regression on weekly bodyweightchange and average weekly kcal intake with 17 observations. I think this model will become less and less acurate as I gain weight since adding lean muscle tissue and fat will also increase my metabolism as i understand it.
The actual metabolism change isn't all that impressive. It's like somewhere in the 6-9 cals/lb/day range depending on what research you look at. HOWEVER, heavy strength training will give you a boost, it's the actual act of repair that uses the calories, rather than the additional burn from the muscle. The harder you tear it up, the more calories you'll use repairing it afterwards.
Aha, so maintaining an added amount of muscle isn't very energy intensive but repairing that added amount will have a greater effect on metabolism. Didn't know about that distinction, but on the other hand I have no plans to stop working out anytime soon so :P Would you happen to know how to factor in this cumulative factor into a multivariate regression by any chance?
The practical application (even though you probably want to maintain your data) would be to just monitor gains every 2 weeks and increase calories by a bit when you stall out. I would shoot for somewhere in the 2-3lb/month goal and adjust intake to land you in that slot.0 -
Just curious as to why you're using multivariate regression analysis when it's only for yourself? 0
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Just curious as to why you're using multivariate regression analysis when it's only for yourself?
OP eats other people. Gotta hit dem macros!0 -
Sidesteel: It took me a good while before I figured out that 3600 was just above my tdee. It's crazy how hard it is to distinguish the trend with all the fluctuations, even on a weekly basis. Last week i actually lost 200 grams but I think that is well within the standard deviation so I'll take you up on your advice and wait for a consecutive week of weightloss before i up my calorieintake.
Morebean: For the number crunching I'm using SPSS Statistics. I'll provide a picture of the actual model below. As you can see it holds at a 90% significance level which would meet academic standards in many fields.
http://i45.tinypic.com/xqak5z.png
I'll also show a scatter diagram with the regression outlined and with 90% confidence intervals for the mean. That way I can identify a kcal intake which will result in a weightgain on average with 90% certainty.
http://i50.tinypic.com/2dvn3vn.jpg
For some odd reason the latest data addition made the scatterdiagram different from the model. But the principle is the same.
etolis: I got too much free time lol
edit: can't link images
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Sidesteel: It took me a good while before I figured out that 3600 was just above my tdee.
Of course there's a lot of variance and you need to decide if you'd rather err on the side of "might not gain as much muscle" or the side of "fat assitude". Obviously your call which end of the spectrum you err on. I'm only suggesting the increase now because of your average gain over 17 weeks being consistently under what I'd consider average.
That being said though, given intelligent training (I assume your lifts are going up) you're probably minimizing fat gain by keeping the pace down.0 -
etolis: I got too much free time lol
lol yeah you do! too small a sample! Good luck to you. :flowerforyou:0 -
Sidesteel: It took me a good while before I figured out that 3600 was just above my tdee.
Of course there's a lot of variance and you need to decide if you'd rather err on the side of "might not gain as much muscle" or the side of "fat assitude". Obviously your call which end of the spectrum you err on. I'm only suggesting the increase now because of your average gain over 17 weeks being consistently under what I'd consider average.
That being said though, given intelligent training (I assume your lifts are going up) you're probably minimizing fat gain by keeping the pace down.
I'm basing my rate of weight increase on studies suggesting you can expect to add 12 pounds of lean muscle tissue per year IF you are untrained and genetically blessed. After that diminishing returns will kick in and the expected muscletissue you can pack on each year becomes less and less. But I guess you allready know this
I have been lifting for close to three years, one and a half of which I've been lifting in a more serious manner. I've allready gained 45 pounds of bodyweight (granted some of this is fat, but still) since I stared. So I would be happy if I can pack on 8 pounds a year of lean tissue. this translate to 0,66 pounds a month, 0,154 pounds or 70 grams a week. A 150 gram weekly increase in bodyweight is well above that level. That's my reasoning.0 -
Sidesteel: It took me a good while before I figured out that 3600 was just above my tdee.
Of course there's a lot of variance and you need to decide if you'd rather err on the side of "might not gain as much muscle" or the side of "fat assitude". Obviously your call which end of the spectrum you err on. I'm only suggesting the increase now because of your average gain over 17 weeks being consistently under what I'd consider average.
That being said though, given intelligent training (I assume your lifts are going up) you're probably minimizing fat gain by keeping the pace down.
I'm basing my rate of weight increase on studies suggesting you can expect to add 12 pounds of lean muscle tissue per year IF you are untrained and genetically blessed. After that diminishing returns will kick in and the expected muscletissue you can pack on each year becomes less and less. But I guess you allready know this
I have been lifting for close to three years, one and a half of which I've been lifting in a more serious manner. I've allready gained 45 pounds of bodyweight (granted some of this is fat, but still) since I stared. So I would be happy if I can pack on 8 pounds a year of lean tissue. this translate to 0,66 pounds a month, 0,154 pounds or 70 grams a week. A 150 gram weekly increase in bodyweight is well above that level. That's my reasoning.
I see. Your logic makes sense if your assumption about maximal gain is correct. I was basing it off of the assumption that you can gain more LBM in a year.0
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