Want to build muscle, not lose weight. More protein?
Replies
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Someone who is at 8% body fat cannot lose fat AND gain muscle very well, if at all. Someone who is 25%+ or so CAN lose fat AND gain muscle easily, with good nutrition. Please, read my entire post, and not skim through it.
http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/
It is possible. Stop providing misinformation. If you don't like my link, google.com is there for you, with numerous other facts, just need to get to the right info.
Utter rubbish. That is utter bunkum mate. I am regularly at 8%, heck I'm reguarly at around 3-4% body fat.
That site talks rubbish - in a scientific manner, please explain how that website is anyway true? Please?
Thats the thing. You are at a low body fat %, of course you're not going to gain muscle while on a calorie deficit. Did you not read anything that I have said? Or did you not read the entire page by Scooby? It seems like you are advanced, so no, for YOU losing fat and gaining muscle would most likely be impossible. While someone like me, or the OP, or the average person, who is nowhere near their genetic limits, CAN lose fat while gaining muscle. It will be slow, but slow is healthy.0 -
how to do carb cycling.?.... i am here to loose weight.....and gain musclesI really don't have to cite proof, as it is general knowledge, and as I am 20% under my TDEE while still eating close to my body weight in protein, I am losing weight(fat) AND gaining muscle. Now, if I was at 5%-10% or so body fat and was on a calorie deficit, it would be MUCH harder to gain muscle while losing fat/weight... in fact, it would be VERY hard, so you are right there.
On to the topic, she wants to stay the same weight while building muscle. So she can either go 5% below her TDEE or hover around it, while still getting enough protein/carbs/healthy fats/fiber in her diet and lose the fat and gain muscle. Cardio plays a good role (try HIIT or Zumba if running on the treadmill is boring) with weight training on achieving this goal too.
One tip to see if you are gaining muscle and not fat is to buy skinfold calipers, easy way to see if you are dropping body fat and staying the same weight (aka gaining muscle)
It is not general knowledge. You are talking utter rubbish. It is IMPOSSIBLE. You cannot gain muscle in a calorie deficit. You do need to cite proof as otherwise, trust me I'd be doing it all the time.
Carb cycling does work for burning fat and other days building muscle but be VERY clear, it doesn't happen "at the same time".
Read http://www.simplyshredded.com/carb-cycling-this-seven-point-diet-strategy-will-help-keep-your-bodyfat-in-check-while-adding-muscle.html
In fact read all the articles on that website - fantastic website, full of good detailed, study backed information.0 -
Thats the thing. You are at a low body fat %, of course you're not going to gain muscle while on a calorie deficit. Did you not read anything that I have said? Or did you not read the entire page by Scooby? It seems like you are advanced, so no, for YOU losing fat and gaining muscle would most likely be impossible. While someone like me, or the OP, or the average person, who is nowhere near their genetic limits, CAN lose fat while gaining muscle. It will be slow, but slow is healthy.
I have read what you have said. So using your methods I can bulk up to 25% body fat and then gain muscle as I cut? Mate, think about what you are saying. The muscle you will gain if any whilst doing what you suggest is TINY. Insignificant. Honestly, my job is to coach people and get them into stage shape. If I could bulk them as I cut them down, I would. Heck some of the guys I coach use chemical assistance, even then it DOES NOT HAPPEN.0 -
Thats the thing. You are at a low body fat %, of course you're not going to gain muscle while on a calorie deficit. Did you not read anything that I have said? Or did you not read the entire page by Scooby? It seems like you are advanced, so no, for YOU losing fat and gaining muscle would most likely be impossible. While someone like me, or the OP, or the average person, who is nowhere near their genetic limits, CAN lose fat while gaining muscle. It will be slow, but slow is healthy.
I have read what you have said. So using your methods I can bulk up to 25% body fat and then gain muscle as I cut? Mate, think about what you are saying. The muscle you will gain if any whilst doing what you suggest is TINY. Insignificant. Honestly, my job is to coach people and get them into stage shape. If I could bulk them as I cut them down, I would. Heck some of the guys I coach use chemical assistance, even then it DOES NOT HAPPEN.
That is nowhere near what I said. I suggest you go back and read what I have said, and not what you THINK I said. Read some of Scooby's articles, and also https://www.google.com/search?q=gain+muscle+lose+fat+same+time&aq=1&oq=gain+muscle+lost+fat&aqs=chrome.2.57j0l3j62l2.5705&sugexp=chrome,mod=6&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=gain+muscle+lose+fat+same+time&hl=en&tbo=d&ei=KcKwUKbbB-ryyAHWqYGoCg&start=10&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=ff999713c9217bd7&bpcl=38897761&biw=1280&bih=923
Good article by you BTW, great for people with low bodyfat% looking to go lower.
Proof is there, you just need to find it. If you don't want to read it... don't argue what you don't want to research.
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Do you notice the ripped guys are arguing with the "regular " guys? Duh... who would you listen to?0
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From "About Scooby Werkstatt": scoobyworkshop.com/about/
"I have no medical training or personal training credentials, my experience is practical:
30 years lifting experience.
Through good form I have never had an injury in the weight room, a real rarity in the bodybuilding.
Bodybuilding has allowed me to remain active and competitive in sports.
My B.S. in Engineering, makes me question everything.
Lots of experience recovering from sports related injuries (snowboarding, volleyball, water polo, etc).
With stretching, proper posture, and bodybuilding have keep my chronic back pain in check."
For a guy without no injuries, why is he always recovering from sports related injuries? Chronic back pain?
Anyone can build a website and anyone can google something to back up their arguments. I'll stick with science & not guys named after cartoon dogs.
Try http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/ as another science-based resource.0 -
Thats the thing. You are at a low body fat %, of course you're not going to gain muscle while on a calorie deficit. Did you not read anything that I have said? Or did you not read the entire page by Scooby? It seems like you are advanced, so no, for YOU losing fat and gaining muscle would most likely be impossible. While someone like me, or the OP, or the average person, who is nowhere near their genetic limits, CAN lose fat while gaining muscle. It will be slow, but slow is healthy.
I have read what you have said. So using your methods I can bulk up to 25% body fat and then gain muscle as I cut? Mate, think about what you are saying. The muscle you will gain if any whilst doing what you suggest is TINY. Insignificant. Honestly, my job is to coach people and get them into stage shape. If I could bulk them as I cut them down, I would. Heck some of the guys I coach use chemical assistance, even then it DOES NOT HAPPEN.
That is nowhere near what I said. I suggest you go back and read what I have said, and not what you THINK I said. Read some of Scooby's articles, and also https://www.google.com/search?q=gain+muscle+lose+fat+same+time&aq=1&oq=gain+muscle+lost+fat&aqs=chrome.2.57j0l3j62l2.5705&sugexp=chrome,mod=6&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=gain+muscle+lose+fat+same+time&hl=en&tbo=d&ei=KcKwUKbbB-ryyAHWqYGoCg&start=10&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=ff999713c9217bd7&bpcl=38897761&biw=1280&bih=923
Good article by you BTW, great for people with low bodyfat% looking to go lower.
Proof is there, you just need to find it. If you don't want to read it... don't argue what you don't want to research.
You haven't researched ANYTHING. You've quoted a guy that doesn't have any nutritional/medical/professional training.
And then you post a link to google search.
Honestly, you may find a tiny bit of body recomp when your first start training but it is NOT sustainable. Maybe, 2-3 months worth. You will not build muscle in the way you want nor expect. Really.
Carry on spinning your wheels if you like tho. I'll carry on what I do, you do the same.
Good luck!
EDIT
Just noticed you've been training 2 months and you are debating muscle gains and fat losses. Clearly in 2 months you've learned a hell of a lot, rendering the last 7 years body building and decade of training I've done, useless. :frown:0 -
To clarify, I'm not worried about gaining a little weight as long as a good amount of it is muscle and I don't start to look fatter rather than toned.
I have very slightly upped my calories (from 1930 to 2000), will weigh in on Monday and adjust again if neccesary (think I will need to go higher). Have also adjusted my macro ratios but I never realised how low MFP's default protein setting was (just 15%), so when I put my protein up to 30% it just looked like a ridiculously high number that realistically I just wont reach at the moment.
At the moment have put it on c45/f30/p25 - is that ok for now or way out? I suppose if my calorie allowance goes up I will have more room for increasing the amount of protein powder in my shake, which I also realised I haven't been taking the full 'dose' of. Something to work on.
Have just found an english language bookstore in Amsterdam that stocks the new rules of lifting for women, so heading out to buy that this afternoon and hopefully will gain a bit more understanding of how this all fits together.
On the plus side, higher maintenance calories is AWESOME - I love to eat :laugh:
It is isn't it? Sounds like a good plan.0 -
Thats the thing. You are at a low body fat %, of course you're not going to gain muscle while on a calorie deficit. Did you not read anything that I have said? Or did you not read the entire page by Scooby? It seems like you are advanced, so no, for YOU losing fat and gaining muscle would most likely be impossible. While someone like me, or the OP, or the average person, who is nowhere near their genetic limits, CAN lose fat while gaining muscle. It will be slow, but slow is healthy.
I have read what you have said. So using your methods I can bulk up to 25% body fat and then gain muscle as I cut? Mate, think about what you are saying. The muscle you will gain if any whilst doing what you suggest is TINY. Insignificant. Honestly, my job is to coach people and get them into stage shape. If I could bulk them as I cut them down, I would. Heck some of the guys I coach use chemical assistance, even then it DOES NOT HAPPEN.
That is nowhere near what I said. I suggest you go back and read what I have said, and not what you THINK I said. Read some of Scooby's articles, and also https://www.google.com/search?q=gain+muscle+lose+fat+same+time&aq=1&oq=gain+muscle+lost+fat&aqs=chrome.2.57j0l3j62l2.5705&sugexp=chrome,mod=6&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=gain+muscle+lose+fat+same+time&hl=en&tbo=d&ei=KcKwUKbbB-ryyAHWqYGoCg&start=10&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=ff999713c9217bd7&bpcl=38897761&biw=1280&bih=923
Good article by you BTW, great for people with low bodyfat% looking to go lower.
Proof is there, you just need to find it. If you don't want to read it... don't argue what you don't want to research.
Dude, you are putting all your faith in one questionable website. Any muscle gains, even if you are 25% BF or higher are minimal. A pound or 2 over 3 months and then done. If you want to hang your hat on that, go ahead. If you are looking to gain muscle, eating in a surplus is neccesary or there is no raw materials from which to build muscle tissue.
You are a newb at lifting and on this site and not well versed in the science to boot. You are unclear on how this works with making claims that don't jive with current scientific understanding. You make the claim? You provide the proof. You have failed to do that. Maybe the best course of action would be to listen and learn a little. As you've discovered, there are some fairly knowlegdeable people here and offering up some BS advice likely isn't going to slide unchallenged.0 -
Someone who is at 8% body fat cannot lose fat AND gain muscle very well, if at all. Someone who is 25%+ or so CAN lose fat AND gain muscle easily, with good nutrition. Please, read my entire post, and not skim through it.
http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/
It is possible. Stop providing misinformation. If you don't like my link, google.com is there for you, with numerous other facts, just need to get to the right info.
Utter rubbish. That is utter bunkum mate. I am regularly at 8%, heck I'm reguarly at around 3-4% body fat.
That site talks rubbish - in a scientific manner, please explain how that website is anyway true? Please?
Thats the thing. You are at a low body fat %, of course you're not going to gain muscle while on a calorie deficit. Did you not read anything that I have said? Or did you not read the entire page by Scooby? It seems like you are advanced, so no, for YOU losing fat and gaining muscle would most likely be impossible. While someone like me, or the OP, or the average person, who is nowhere near their genetic limits, CAN lose fat while gaining muscle. It will be slow, but slow is healthy.
I would suggest you read this. Its by someone who actually knows what they are talking about (it was quoted before but you must have missed it). Scooby is not the best resource for correct information.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html
Basically, unless you are obese or a newb, you cannot gain muscle on a deficit, and even then it is only a couple of pounds.
ETA: I had asked it before, but it must have been missed - how are you measuring BF% to show that you apparently have gained muscle while losing fat?0 -
Thats the thing. You are at a low body fat %, of course you're not going to gain muscle while on a calorie deficit. Did you not read anything that I have said? Or did you not read the entire page by Scooby? It seems like you are advanced, so no, for YOU losing fat and gaining muscle would most likely be impossible. While someone like me, or the OP, or the average person, who is nowhere near their genetic limits, CAN lose fat while gaining muscle. It will be slow, but slow is healthy.
I have read what you have said. So using your methods I can bulk up to 25% body fat and then gain muscle as I cut? Mate, think about what you are saying. The muscle you will gain if any whilst doing what you suggest is TINY. Insignificant. Honestly, my job is to coach people and get them into stage shape. If I could bulk them as I cut them down, I would. Heck some of the guys I coach use chemical assistance, even then it DOES NOT HAPPEN.
That is nowhere near what I said. I suggest you go back and read what I have said, and not what you THINK I said. Read some of Scooby's articles, and also https://www.google.com/search?q=gain+muscle+lose+fat+same+time&aq=1&oq=gain+muscle+lost+fat&aqs=chrome.2.57j0l3j62l2.5705&sugexp=chrome,mod=6&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=gain+muscle+lose+fat+same+time&hl=en&tbo=d&ei=KcKwUKbbB-ryyAHWqYGoCg&start=10&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=ff999713c9217bd7&bpcl=38897761&biw=1280&bih=923
Good article by you BTW, great for people with low bodyfat% looking to go lower.
Proof is there, you just need to find it. If you don't want to read it... don't argue what you don't want to research.
You haven't researched ANYTHING. You've quoted a guy that doesn't have any nutritional/medical/professional training.
And then you post a link to google search.
Honestly, you may find a tiny bit of body recomp when your first start training but it is NOT sustainable. Maybe, 2-3 months worth. You will not build muscle in the way you want nor expect. Really.
Carry on spinning your wheels if you like tho. I'll carry on what I do, you do the same.
Good luck!
EDIT
Just noticed you've been training 2 months and you are debating muscle gains and fat losses. Clearly in 2 months you've learned a hell of a lot, rendering the last 7 years body building and decade of training I've done, useless. :frown:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3519021&d=1310193169
From the source:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=141780961&page=1
So yes, you can lose fat AND gain muscle.0 -
Thats the thing. You are at a low body fat %, of course you're not going to gain muscle while on a calorie deficit. Did you not read anything that I have said? Or did you not read the entire page by Scooby? It seems like you are advanced, so no, for YOU losing fat and gaining muscle would most likely be impossible. While someone like me, or the OP, or the average person, who is nowhere near their genetic limits, CAN lose fat while gaining muscle. It will be slow, but slow is healthy.
I have read what you have said. So using your methods I can bulk up to 25% body fat and then gain muscle as I cut? Mate, think about what you are saying. The muscle you will gain if any whilst doing what you suggest is TINY. Insignificant. Honestly, my job is to coach people and get them into stage shape. If I could bulk them as I cut them down, I would. Heck some of the guys I coach use chemical assistance, even then it DOES NOT HAPPEN.
That is nowhere near what I said. I suggest you go back and read what I have said, and not what you THINK I said. Read some of Scooby's articles, and also https://www.google.com/search?q=gain+muscle+lose+fat+same+time&aq=1&oq=gain+muscle+lost+fat&aqs=chrome.2.57j0l3j62l2.5705&sugexp=chrome,mod=6&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=gain+muscle+lose+fat+same+time&hl=en&tbo=d&ei=KcKwUKbbB-ryyAHWqYGoCg&start=10&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=ff999713c9217bd7&bpcl=38897761&biw=1280&bih=923
Good article by you BTW, great for people with low bodyfat% looking to go lower.
Proof is there, you just need to find it. If you don't want to read it... don't argue what you don't want to research.
You haven't researched ANYTHING. You've quoted a guy that doesn't have any nutritional/medical/professional training.
And then you post a link to google search.
Honestly, you may find a tiny bit of body recomp when your first start training but it is NOT sustainable. Maybe, 2-3 months worth. You will not build muscle in the way you want nor expect. Really.
Carry on spinning your wheels if you like tho. I'll carry on what I do, you do the same.
Good luck!
EDIT
Just noticed you've been training 2 months and you are debating muscle gains and fat losses. Clearly in 2 months you've learned a hell of a lot, rendering the last 7 years body building and decade of training I've done, useless. :frown:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attach...1&d=1310193169
From the source:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=141780961&page=1
So yes, you can lose fat AND gain muscle.
No, no you cannot. The link does not work (for me at least) but you do realize that a bb.com forum is not 'proof' of anything don't you?
Did you read the link provided earlier or just search for something that would support your incorrect claim?0 -
You can cling to your ignorance or learn something. bb.com is the worlds greatest source of broscience. Believe what you want and good luck with that.0
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Thats the thing. You are at a low body fat %, of course you're not going to gain muscle while on a calorie deficit. Did you not read anything that I have said? Or did you not read the entire page by Scooby? It seems like you are advanced, so no, for YOU losing fat and gaining muscle would most likely be impossible. While someone like me, or the OP, or the average person, who is nowhere near their genetic limits, CAN lose fat while gaining muscle. It will be slow, but slow is healthy.
I have read what you have said. So using your methods I can bulk up to 25% body fat and then gain muscle as I cut? Mate, think about what you are saying. The muscle you will gain if any whilst doing what you suggest is TINY. Insignificant. Honestly, my job is to coach people and get them into stage shape. If I could bulk them as I cut them down, I would. Heck some of the guys I coach use chemical assistance, even then it DOES NOT HAPPEN.
That is nowhere near what I said. I suggest you go back and read what I have said, and not what you THINK I said. Read some of Scooby's articles, and also https://www.google.com/search?q=gain+muscle+lose+fat+same+time&aq=1&oq=gain+muscle+lost+fat&aqs=chrome.2.57j0l3j62l2.5705&sugexp=chrome,mod=6&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=gain+muscle+lose+fat+same+time&hl=en&tbo=d&ei=KcKwUKbbB-ryyAHWqYGoCg&start=10&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=ff999713c9217bd7&bpcl=38897761&biw=1280&bih=923
Good article by you BTW, great for people with low bodyfat% looking to go lower.
Proof is there, you just need to find it. If you don't want to read it... don't argue what you don't want to research.
You haven't researched ANYTHING. You've quoted a guy that doesn't have any nutritional/medical/professional training.
And then you post a link to google search.
Honestly, you may find a tiny bit of body recomp when your first start training but it is NOT sustainable. Maybe, 2-3 months worth. You will not build muscle in the way you want nor expect. Really.
Carry on spinning your wheels if you like tho. I'll carry on what I do, you do the same.
Good luck!
EDIT
Just noticed you've been training 2 months and you are debating muscle gains and fat losses. Clearly in 2 months you've learned a hell of a lot, rendering the last 7 years body building and decade of training I've done, useless. :frown:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3519021&d=1310193169
From the source:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=141780961&page=1
So yes, you can lose fat AND gain muscle.
Lol, funny. I was thinking "He's just come straight from the BB.com forums".0 -
Bro-science o'clock.0
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Doesn't A. Aragon talk about "culking" as an alternative to the typical bulking / cutting cycle? Not trying to throw oil on the fire but it is something I am certainly interested in. I'm currently following a slow recomp and weight loss (< 1/2 per week) coming from a high BF and this is working for me, or so I think. I might be "spinning my wheels", but I think I'll stick to this through 2012.0
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Doesn't A. Aragon talk about "culking" as an alternative to the typical bulking / cutting cycle? Not trying to throw oil on the fire but it is something I am certainly interested in. I'm currently following a slow recomp and weight loss (< 1/2 per week) coming from a high BF and this is working for me, or so I think. I might be "spinning my wheels", but I think I'll stick to this through 2012.
You can gain muscle basically doing calorie cycling. The thing is - you are not at a deficit all the time. You eat at a surplus on lifting days and at a deficit on rest days. So the days you are gaining muscle are surplus days. It is possible this way but it is a long slow process.0 -
tries to prove point... cites scooby... notsureifsrs. :noway:0
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When I trained for my last marathon my trainer had me eat one gram of protein for every pound I weighed to build muscle and not lose weight. I only weigh 95 so it wasn't that bad, but it was a challenge. I was maintaining 1400 calories a day. I ate chicken breasts, Quest nutrition bars and Met-rx shakes. It worked.0
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When I trained for my last marathon my trainer had me eat one gram of protein for every pound I weighed to build muscle and not lose weight. I only weigh 95 so it wasn't that bad, but it was a challenge. I was maintaining 1400 calories a day. I ate chicken breasts, Quest nutrition bars and Met-rx shakes. It worked.
Would love to see a series of photos showing this magic process seeing someone gain muscle as they cut.0 -
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3519021&d=1310193169
From the source:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=141780961&page=1
So yes, you can lose fat AND gain muscle.
Look at my profile photos. Look at how I look. Can you not grasp I have a good hold on diet and muscle?
I write up blogs for Gaspari and my background is coaching and nutrition. In fact, I'm about to embark on a degree in nutrition. I coach people to the finals of the feds in which they compete in bodybuilding, bikini, classic and physique classes but no, BB.com and its utter crap info is correct. I can see I'm wasting my time here.
If you genuinely want some help mate, drop me a message and will get you sorted out and give you a diet to clear your fat and then carb cycle you up to build some muscle. Not here to make enemies, just help.
Ciao!0 -
@ Matt_Wild.. You supplied alot of information that can be backed up. Not sure why some havent pulled out a pen and paper and start taking notes. Its all about shutting up and listening to what others have to offer. Free knowledge.0
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