Is it possible to lose fat only?

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RobynLB
RobynLB Posts: 617 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
I saw several posts this morning where people were insisting that ALL weight lost is both muscle and fat at varying proportions. My perception had always been that you will lose only fat provided that you maintain your muscle through exercise and adequate protein. Isn't that what fitness models, athletes, and bodybuilders do when they cut fat?
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  • FullOfWin
    FullOfWin Posts: 1,414 Member
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    You will still lose a small amount most likely, but it is very minimized by doing heavy resistance training, eating adequate protein, and taking the loss at a reasonable (not too fast) rate.
  • Mokey41
    Mokey41 Posts: 5,769 Member
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    It depends how big you are to start with. Someone who is grossly overweight will have extra muscle as well as fat just because the body needs the extra muscle to carry itself around. It would be impossible and unnecessary to save all of that muscle. If you only have 10 or 20 lbs to lose you should be able to maintain your lean muscle mass for the most part.
  • RobynLB
    RobynLB Posts: 617 Member
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    I'm talking more like 2-5 lbs to lose.
  • DanaDark
    DanaDark Posts: 2,187 Member
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    Several things come to issue with muscle retention during fat loss.

    First, the body is a very efficient machine. If it is in a calorie deficit for extended periods, it figures out how to make you last the longest possible. If it has excess muscle that is not being utilized, it will degrade it so it stops using the extra calories it now has to save. Humans do this with their finances when they suddenly have to live off their savings.

    Secondly, fat loss occurs when the body is overall catabolic. In this state, muscle and fat are broken down. Conversely, in the anabolic state, muscle and fat are created. This states are NOT binary. Look at is more like Anabolic + catabolic = 1.0 where when catabolic > anabolic, more fat will be lost than will be gained. If you weight lift during the catabolic state, you will rebuild some of the muscle that is lost (as the body still has some anabolic properties).

    Finally, very large individuals usually will retain significant muscle after weight loss due to the sheer amount of muscle they have underneath.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
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    I saw several posts this morning where people were insisting that ALL weight lost is both muscle and fat at varying proportions. My perception had always been that you will lose only fat provided that you maintain your muscle through exercise and adequate protein. Isn't that what fitness models, athletes, and bodybuilders do when they cut fat?

    Actually, if your calorie deficit is less than 300, you can retain your LBM while losing fat. The idea that you can't burn fat while maintaining muscle stems from a corollary belief that a high calorie deficit and lots of cardio is necessary to burn fat.
  • LuckyMe381
    LuckyMe381 Posts: 105 Member
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    thank you robyn...great question
  • DanaDark
    DanaDark Posts: 2,187 Member
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    Actually, if your calorie deficit is less than 300, you can retain your LBM while losing fat. The idea that you can't burn fat while maintaining muscle stems from a corollary belief that a high calorie deficit and lots of cardio is necessary to burn fat.

    Aye, the lower the calorie deficit, the lower the difference between the overall catabolic and anabolic state, thus making retaining muscle significantly easier. :)
  • RobynLB
    RobynLB Posts: 617 Member
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    Several things come to issue with muscle retention during fat loss.

    First, the body is a very efficient machine. If it is in a calorie deficit for extended periods, it figures out how to make you last the longest possible. If it has excess muscle that is not being utilized, it will degrade it so it stops using the extra calories it now has to save. Humans do this with their finances when they suddenly have to live off their savings.

    Secondly, fat loss occurs when the body is overall catabolic. In this state, muscle and fat are broken down. Conversely, in the anabolic state, muscle and fat are created. This states are NOT binary. Look at is more like Anabolic + catabolic = 1.0 where when catabolic > anabolic, more fat will be lost than will be gained. If you weight lift during the catabolic state, you will rebuild some of the muscle that is lost (as the body still has some anabolic properties).

    Finally, very large individuals usually will retain significant muscle after weight loss due to the sheer amount of muscle they have underneath.

    Do you have some kind of science / medical degree or are you just really good at on the fly research? This is super technical, and interesting, but I'm not sure how to apply it.
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    Several things come to issue with muscle retention during fat loss.

    First, the body is a very efficient machine. If it is in a calorie deficit for extended periods, it figures out how to make you last the longest possible. If it has excess muscle that is not being utilized, it will degrade it so it stops using the extra calories it now has to save. Humans do this with their finances when they suddenly have to live off their savings.

    Secondly, fat loss occurs when the body is overall catabolic. In this state, muscle and fat are broken down. Conversely, in the anabolic state, muscle and fat are created. This states are NOT binary. Look at is more like Anabolic + catabolic = 1.0 where when catabolic > anabolic, more fat will be lost than will be gained. If you weight lift during the catabolic state, you will rebuild some of the muscle that is lost (as the body still has some anabolic properties).

    Finally, very large individuals usually will retain significant muscle after weight loss due to the sheer amount of muscle they have underneath.

    Do you have some kind of science / medical degree or are you just really good at on the fly research? This is super technical, and interesting, but I'm not sure how to apply it.


    In terms of application, you should keep your calorie deficit small, you should take in adequate protein, and you should apply enough stimulus (resistance training) to retain as much LBM as possible.

    Training experience, deficit size, macronutrient intake, training procedure, genetics --- several factors that all interact with this process.
  • DanaDark
    DanaDark Posts: 2,187 Member
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    Do you have some kind of science / medical degree or are you just really good at on the fly research? This is super technical, and interesting, but I'm not sure how to apply it.

    I been independently looking into all this stuff since 17 (I am 27 now). I studied Nursing at University before switching to Computer Science and Mathematics. That information was NOT researched on the fly. Wish I was that good ha ha.

    Simply put: The larger the calorie deficit, the more muscle that will be lost. Some loss can be offset by weight lifting. The weight lifting encourages the body to retain more muscle as it is actually used, and also regain some muscle that is lost (but can't offset the total loss in most cases).

    As in EVERY aspect of science, theory and practice aren't always the same. You'll always find someone that will argue they ate nothing but ice and water and gained 500 pounds of muscle and has -300% body fat.
  • yecatsml
    yecatsml Posts: 180 Member
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    This will be a good thread to follow - I'm at about a 400 calorie deficit from TDEE and am doing Stronglifts (not really any cardio). Right now my main focus is to loose body fat. I'd like to get stronger in the process, but I realize that I'll have to eat at a surplus to build lots of muscle. That is my next step after I get my BF down about 6% more to about 19%.
  • FullOfWin
    FullOfWin Posts: 1,414 Member
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    I gained 1000lbs with nothing but air, and my bodyfat turned into antimatter.
  • Bakkasan
    Bakkasan Posts: 1,027 Member
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    Way too many hormonal and dietary factors here. You can do your best to preserve by continuing to lift and eat adequate protein.
  • RobynLB
    RobynLB Posts: 617 Member
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    Can you GAIN muscle at a deficit? My arms have actually grown 1/2" in the past month even though I've been eating at a deficit and lost about 2 lbs. Or are they just swollen? How long after training do muscles recover to the point where there is no inflammation? What if you train the same muscles almost daily?
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    I'd like to get stronger in the process, but I realize that I'll have to eat at a surplus to build lots of muscle. That is my next step after I get my BF down about 6% more to about 19%.

    While you might not gain any lean mass, you can still gain strength while eating in a deficit. This gets less and less likely as you gain more training experience/strength. So for example, I would expect that somone who is closer to genetic potential probably isn't going to get stronger while cutting, but someone in their first couple of years of training should still make strength gains.
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    Can you GAIN muscle at a deficit?

    This will likely cause an argument, but I'd refer you to Lyle on this. Cliffs: Overfat beginners and people returning to training after a long layoff can gain LBM in a deficit. Trained and fit bodybuilders not so much.

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html
  • DanaDark
    DanaDark Posts: 2,187 Member
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    This will be a good thread to follow - I'm at about a 400 calorie deficit from TDEE and am doing Stronglifts (not really any cardio). Right now my main focus is to loose body fat. I'd like to get stronger in the process, but I realize that I'll have to eat at a surplus to build lots of muscle. That is my next step after I get my BF down about 6% more to about 19%.

    Perfect. You'll easily retain most of your muscle mass that you currently have with that deficit and lifting.

    You will get stronger even in a deficit, as for beginners their is the neural connection to the muscle that grows stronger as well as the fact that sometimes the minor anabolic state (when the major state is catabolic) can actually cause muscle gains. Eventually the muscle gains stop due to the minor anabolic state reaching the limit to what it can support. At this time, you're strength training will plateau.

    Once you get a lower body fat, go to a surplus. This makes the anabolic state the major state, and thus able to support more muscle growth.
  • RobynLB
    RobynLB Posts: 617 Member
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    I have been very fit for years, but I switched from cardio endurance training (triathlon) to sports training (boxing) within the past year. So I have never trained my arms before. That could put me in the second group then? Because THIS type of training is relatively new?
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    I have been very fit for years, but I switched from cardio endurance training to sports training (boxing) within the past year. So I have never trained my arms before. That could put me in the second group then? Because THIS type of training is relatively new?

    I'd say it's possible, but I wouldn't expect it to last long or be a significant amount of LBM.
  • LorinaLynn
    LorinaLynn Posts: 13,247 Member
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    I'm talking more like 2-5 lbs to lose.

    With that little to lose, and with good nutrition and resistance training, any loss of lean mass wouldn't be noticeable. Just a tiny fraction... we're talking ounces.

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