Thoughts: "body will hold onto fat if not eating enough"?

And finally, if it was solely and simply calories in vs calories out, then a 400 pound man could lock himself in a room for a whole year and NEVER eat and come out skinny. This simply DOES NOT happen. Your body still needs food.

Just out of curiousity in case I'm misinterpreting this --- what do you expect to happen in the above scenario, aside from the 400lb man eventually dying due to nutrient deficiencies.

We actually know what happens

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/pdf/postmedj00315-0056.pdf

^ Thanks for posting this. I actually mentioned this in my original reply but I removed it because I've only heard discussion about this study without actually being able to find this study. I'm reasonably certain this is the study referenced in the protein roundtable discussion (V1). I've been wanting to read this. You rule.

Just like anytime anyone gains weight, they gain fat and muscle.

gaining weight will not usually increase muscle mass unless you are also doing heavy resistance work of some kind

if someone sits on the couch and eats in a caloric surplus, they will not add any significant muscle mass

I'm know... I'm not talking about significant increases in mass, especially in a short time period. But someone who's been overweight for a number of years is going to have more lean mass than they did before they gained weight.

As a skinny teenager, I had a lean mass of about 90 pounds. Twenty-some years later, I have a lean mass of about 110 pounds. I'm doing heavy lifting NOW, but I didn't gain that 20 pounds of LBM in just the past year and a half of lifting. It happened gradually over time with maturity, weight gain, being more active, etc.

I talked to my dietician and fitness instructor at my gym, YMCA. He advised me to eat every calorie that I am suppose to because your body can go into what is called starvation mode. And yes, it is a real thing! LOL! I didn't believe at first, so I tried out his advice and when I upped my calories, I started seeing better results! It is weird and scary at first! Add me if you like, I will share any advice that I get at the gym!

:laugh:

Madea!

In my head, it stands to reason that a 400lb person will develop at least SOME additional LBM from carrying around 400lbs everywhere.

It's nonsense, trust your instincts

I will pass this along to my nutritionist. As a person with diabetes and chronic pancreatitis I have been to several nutirionalists and it is this simple. If you eat breakfast, a snack, lunch, a snack, dinner and a snack your body will typically burn more knowing it has more nutrients to run the body. If you eat a small snack for breakfast, a snack for lunch and a big dinner your body or you just eat one meal a day your body will store fat to have something to burn to maintain critical functions. This does not mean it will happen if you do this once a week but it is about pattern.

Once again, this affects every person differently.

http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2006/11/quack-word-16-nutritionist.html

BTW, following the example of "nutritionists" everywhere, this morning i declared myself "All Being Master of Time, Space, and Dimension". you are all now my subjects and i expect weekly tithings. contact me by mail for the PO Box where you should send those tithings.

LOL, LOL, LOL Good Point!

And finally, if it was solely and simply calories in vs calories out, then a 400 pound man could lock himself in a room for a whole year and NEVER eat and come out skinny. This simply DOES NOT happen. Your body still needs food.

Just out of curiousity in case I'm misinterpreting this --- what do you expect to happen in the above scenario, aside from the 400lb man eventually dying due to nutrient deficiencies.

Starvation mode makes you dead

Find me one case where a person starved to death and left an obese corpse.

no one is saying that. they are saying that the body burns both fat and muscle. more muscle is burned if no exercise is done. more muscle is burned if a higher deficit is happening. those are all facts discovered through scientific study. if a person truly "starves to death" then the body will use whatever it has to use to burn calories - muscle, fat, organs, etc. you will have less fat but also less muscle, etc. the idea of "holding onto fat" is the idea that higher caloric deficits cause the body to burn everything. lower deficits (closer to TDEE) cause the person to burn a higher percentage of fat rather than muscle. However it takes a LONG time to lose a lot of fat so most people want the quick solution, which is a higher calorie deficit. Then, what ends up happening is people have to rebuild their muscle through body recomposition. these are the bulk/cut cycles that people talk about on here.

Find me one case where a person starved to death and left an obese corpse.

Dying of starvation is not simply dying of lack of calories.

Part of being alive requires a constant intake of certain supplies to keep the body properly functioning. Vitamins and proteins for example.

You simply cannot make these materials out of fat stores.

Find me one case where a person starved to death and left an obese corpse.

Dying of starvation is not simply dying of lack of calories.

Part of being alive requires a constant intake of certain supplies to keep the body properly functioning. Vitamins and proteins for example.

You simply cannot make these materials out of fat stores.

Sources?

You need a source to understand that the body needs protein?

/facepalm

Potassium deficiency results in weakness, erratic heart rhythm, and death. Low blood sodium can result in confusion, seizures, erratic heart rhythm. Calcium deficiency results in thinning of the bones. Magnesium deficiency results in heart-rhythm problems. Lack of iron causes anemia. Vitamin deficiencies cause hair loss, inflammations, susceptibility to infection, muscle pain, confusion, and hosts of other problems. People on very low calorie diets are causing damage to their bodies, they just do not always see it until the damage is already done.

Aye. People need to understand that eating is not solely about calorie intake. >.>

I have posted this elsewhere so it's a copy and paste.....but this has been my experience:

I did a lot of reading and researched the TDEE / BMR numbers, etc. as I had been eating the recommended 1200 cals for months. I did really well at first and lost 7 lbs pretty quickly. then nada.... I couldn't figure out why since I was only eating between 800 - 1200 cals per day net. Doesn't a large deficit equal large weight loss? Not for me...

After spending a lot of time on different websites, and doing different calculators, here is what has worked for me:

http://scoobysworkshop.com/accurate-calorie-calculator/

I didn't want to base my numbers on exercise that I MIGHT do, even though I'm consistent, so I factored in my TDEE at the Sedentary rate - 15% (I don't have much to lose).

I am 5'5" and currently 135 lbs. My BF is 22.3 % and am 40 years old. I went to the Scooby Workshop website to calculate my calorie needs for the day and use those numbers. If you know your bodyfat % then a more accurate calculation is using the Katch-McArdle formula according to them. These stats give me:

BMR - 1400
TDEE - 1680 (at Sedentary)
Calorie Requirements to lose 0.5 lb per week - 1428 (this is at a 15% deficit)

Sooooo, what I did after that is reset my MFP daily goals at 1428 cals per day NET! I eat back ALL of my exercise calories.

The second thing I did was purchase a HRM to accurately guage what I was burning during my workouts. You would be surprised at the discrepancies between estimates! I do an intense bootcamp class 3 x per week and run on my off days. Either a few miles or sprint intervals, depending on how I feel that day. Depending on what we are doing in bootcamp, my burn could be anywhere from 240 cals to 350 cals....WAY under what I thought!!! If I was to eat back what I GUESSED I was burning, then I would be eliminating any deficit I had for the day. Keep in mind that the muscle you're building will burn more calories at rest, and you get a great 'afterburn' from weights that will last for hours after, so even though you're not burning as large of an amount during your workout, the after effects far outweigh doing just straight cardio!!! Heavy lifting is the best thing you can do for your body!! I used to do both on the same day, but have stopped doing that. A little bit of something 6-7 days per week is better than a huge amount of exercise 3-4 days per week. (for me anyway).

The last thing I do is stop stressing and trust the process. I eat whatever I want and try to make sure that it fits into my calories for the WEEK. I eat chocolate every day, and I make sure to save enough calories for an evening snack. It hasn't mattered when I eat, only how much. I try to keep my protein up as much as possible (30%), and let the rest of my macros fall where they may.

I weigh myself every morning, but only log the progress if it's less than the last entry. sometimes there will be 2 weeks of no change, but then all of a sudden there's a 1 lb loss showing on my graph. If I take the total loss and divide it by the amount of weeks, then I AVERAGE a 0.5 lb loss per week.

This method has been easily sustainable for me....slow and steady with zero deprivation!!

Hope this helps, and good luck to you!!

I have posted this elsewhere so it's a copy and paste.....but this has been my experience:

I did a lot of reading and researched the TDEE / BMR numbers, etc. as I had been eating the recommended 1200 cals for months. I did really well at first and lost 7 lbs pretty quickly. then nada.... I couldn't figure out why since I was only eating between 800 - 1200 cals per day net. Doesn't a large deficit equal large weight loss? Not for me...

After spending a lot of time on different websites, and doing different calculators, here is what has worked for me:

http://scoobysworkshop.com/accurate-calorie-calculator/

I didn't want to base my numbers on exercise that I MIGHT do, even though I'm consistent, so I factored in my TDEE at the Sedentary rate - 15% (I don't have much to lose).

I am 5'5" and currently 135 lbs. My BF is 22.3 % and am 40 years old. I went to the Scooby Workshop website to calculate my calorie needs for the day and use those numbers. If you know your bodyfat % then a more accurate calculation is using the Katch-McArdle formula according to them. These stats give me:

BMR - 1400
TDEE - 1680 (at Sedentary)
Calorie Requirements to lose 0.5 lb per week - 1428 (this is at a 15% deficit)

Sooooo, what I did after that is reset my MFP daily goals at 1428 cals per day NET! I eat back ALL of my exercise calories.

The second thing I did was purchase a HRM to accurately guage what I was burning during my workouts. You would be surprised at the discrepancies between estimates! I do an intense bootcamp class 3 x per week and run on my off days. Either a few miles or sprint intervals, depending on how I feel that day. Depending on what we are doing in bootcamp, my burn could be anywhere from 240 cals to 350 cals....WAY under what I thought!!! If I was to eat back what I GUESSED I was burning, then I would be eliminating any deficit I had for the day. Keep in mind that the muscle you're building will burn more calories at rest, and you get a great 'afterburn' from weights that will last for hours after, so even though you're not burning as large of an amount during your workout, the after effects far outweigh doing just straight cardio!!! Heavy lifting is the best thing you can do for your body!! I used to do both on the same day, but have stopped doing that. A little bit of something 6-7 days per week is better than a huge amount of exercise 3-4 days per week. (for me anyway).

The last thing I do is stop stressing and trust the process. I eat whatever I want and try to make sure that it fits into my calories for the WEEK. I eat chocolate every day, and I make sure to save enough calories for an evening snack. It hasn't mattered when I eat, only how much. I try to keep my protein up as much as possible (30%), and let the rest of my macros fall where they may.

I weigh myself every morning, but only log the progress if it's less than the last entry. sometimes there will be 2 weeks of no change, but then all of a sudden there's a 1 lb loss showing on my graph. If I take the total loss and divide it by the amount of weeks, then I AVERAGE a 0.5 lb loss per week.

This method has been easily sustainable for me....slow and steady with zero deprivation!!

Hope this helps, and good luck to you!!

^^ this is what i did too. works really well. getting a lean body and losing fat. minor departure from TDEE. my TDEE is 1900 and I eat 1600-1800 every day. weight loss is slow but that is ok because i am losing mostly fat.