Eating over calorie goals on purpose?
explodingalice
Posts: 158 Member
So, today I had a fitness assessment at my gym. One of the things the trainer asked me is if I ever go over my daily calorie limit. I said that I usually do not, or if I do only by a handful of calories. I told him that when I burn a lot exercising I will sometimes eat SOME of those calories back, but generally not all. I don't really do cheat days, but rather eat what I want to eat as long as I stay within my targets.
He said that every so often I needed to go over my calories by a good bit, or that my body would become adapted to functioning at the amount I am giving it each day, causing me to stall. He said if my daily goal is 1440, maybe every other week or so I should allow myself to go up to 1800 or even 2000 calories.
I think I've seen people refer to doing this on several threads here about a variety of topics, so I know some people do it. And I want to trust him since he's a trainer. But it does seem weird to me. So I'm curious what you all think?
(I searched for this topic extensively before posting but couldn't find, so maybe just how I was wording my search!)
He said that every so often I needed to go over my calories by a good bit, or that my body would become adapted to functioning at the amount I am giving it each day, causing me to stall. He said if my daily goal is 1440, maybe every other week or so I should allow myself to go up to 1800 or even 2000 calories.
I think I've seen people refer to doing this on several threads here about a variety of topics, so I know some people do it. And I want to trust him since he's a trainer. But it does seem weird to me. So I'm curious what you all think?
(I searched for this topic extensively before posting but couldn't find, so maybe just how I was wording my search!)
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Replies
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Mine are arbitrarily set higher than mfp suggests for me and I usually go over by 200-300 every day ( so like 600-700 over where mfp sets me).
I've been losing more than a pound a week for the last month.0 -
I definitely think there's something to that. Prior to this past week, I had my daily target set at 1200. I changed my activity level, and my target increased to 1400. I had a "cheat" day on Friday (during which I ate chicken fingers, french fries, and CAKE). On Monday, I posted my biggest weekly loss yet at 3.6 lbs.
Granted, I do exercise a fair amount (I went to spinning twice and jogged/walked at least twice). But, I think increasing my calorie intake really boosted my weight loss.0 -
I have read many times about zigzagging calorie ranges throughout your week to keep your body guessing how much food its getting. I would say yes, you should up your calories a couple times a week to throw your body out of routine.0
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Yes, the body adapts hence the reason for "stalls" or "plateaus". By bumping your cals once in awhile it should prevent the body from adapting as easy.0
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i guess your trainer is an absolute BRO science dude what he says is totally a waste of time and if u ask me just get a new trainer who knows his stuff, your body as LBM ( Lean Body mass ) need X amount of calories to pass the day and if u use less than that u lose weight and there is no way your body will adapt, the only time it will adapt is when your LBM decrease or increase and u will need to eat more or less to feed it and lose weight so back to the basics, get your BF% ( body fat % ) and from there run an online calculator which copurate bf% i it and u will find some real stuff, for example, my LBM lets say is 100 lb , as a man i need to eat 100 g of protien 50 g of fat and the rest is carb according to the calculator, im not sure what is the ratio for ladies but please do look it up0
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Why not give it a go and see whether it works for you? It's really hard to know exactly how your body will respond; what works for others may not work for you. But it seems the consensus here is that this may work, so why not give it a go? I know that personally my caloric intake goes up and down, anywhere between 1700-2800 (I think my diary is open but I don't log everything I eat bc I get lazy, plus I'm not trying to lose weight but am only trying to get an approximate sense of what I'm eating for my training purposes).0
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No science, just opinion, but I agree with bumping up calories once in a week. I try to do it with avocado, brown rice, steak or other nutrient dense foods rather than junk.0
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Yes, the body adapts hence the reason for "stalls" or "plateaus". By bumping your cals once in awhile it should prevent the body from adapting as easy.
Really? Your body can plateau for a few different reasons. It could be that you are holding water and it seems to be a plateau or and it is much more likely you are eating at maintenance. Your body doesn't adapt. Yes your metabolism can slow drastically if you eat so little that you screw up your hormones. That would probably be sub 1000 calories for a women. You you are talking about is a refeed. It is used by people with very low levels of body fat, and it is used to reset their hormones. To do it correctly it can take up to 2 weeks. This doesn't effect most people. This doesn't happen to obese people. When you lose weight your caloric requirements decrease. You weigh less so your body needs less to maintain weight. You can exercise more or eat less. In most every case of a plateau, it is simply that the person thinks they are eating X and they are actually eating more then they think. At the beginning of a cut, just cutting out the obvious junk and using this program will get you on the right path. So you lose weight. For example, you think you are eating 1500 calories but you miss stuff, don't count everything or aren't selecting what you are really eating from the MFP pulldown list. You really are eating 2000 calories but you still lose weight because you are still in a deficit. Eventually your TDEE can reach 2000 and magically your weight loss ceases. What everyone needs to do is serious make sure everything that goes in the pie hole is counted. Everything. Amazingly, it solves the problem 99% of the time. Recheck everything you are eating. Google it, check the packaging again, weigh everything. This is much more important if your are female and or small. You require fewer calories and have less room for errors during your cut.0 -
You aren't going to find any real evidence (and by this I DO mean actual peer reviewed scientific research) because the only way to find out if this is actually and scientifically true is to do a large scale study where people are matched and separated into control and research groups then housed and carefully fed and exercised to control all the variables for long periods of time. It isn't economically feasible. That being said, while we find it a convenient fiction to use daily goals and daily tracking, the reality is that it is long term averages that matter. So best guess suggests overage days aren't going to hurt, specifically, but they are going to need to be balanced by under days. My feeling, for myself, is I have better long term compliance if I have days to "cheat", and if I balance calorie goals by the week. But theres absolutely no evidence to prove that it is a method that will be more effective than strict adherence. There is just my feeling that it is more comfortable and effective for me.0
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Really? Your body can plateau for a few different reasons. It could be that you are holding water and it seems to be a plateau or and it is much more likely you are eating at maintenance. Your body doesn't adapt. Yes your metabolism can slow drastically if you eat so little that you screw up your hormones. That would probably be sub 1000 calories for a women. You you are talking about is a refeed. It is used by people with very low levels of body fat, and it is used to reset their hormones. To do it correctly it can take up to 2 weeks. This doesn't effect most people. This doesn't happen to obese people. When you lose weight your caloric requirements decrease. You weigh less so your body needs less to maintain weight. You can exercise more or eat less. In most every case of a plateau, it is simply that the person thinks they are eating X and they are actually eating more then they think. At the beginning of a cut, just cutting out the obvious junk and using this program will get you on the right path. So you lose weight. For example, you think you are eating 1500 calories but you miss stuff, don't count everything or aren't selecting what you are really eating from the MFP pulldown list. You really are eating 2000 calories but you still lose weight because you are still in a deficit. Eventually your TDEE can reach 2000 and magically your weight loss ceases. What everyone needs to do is serious make sure everything that goes in the pie hole is counted. Everything. Amazingly, it solves the problem 99% of the time. Recheck everything you are eating. Google it, check the packaging again, weigh everything. This is much more important if your are female and or small. You require fewer calories and have less room for errors during your cut.
I don't think this is a problem for me. I have OCD, and so I am fairly maniacal about logging EVERYTHING. Case in point, yesterday my son got a banana milkshake from Checkers, which he was raving about. Having never tried it before, I had one big sip and gave it back. I logged onto MFP and put in 1/10th of the milkshake, the smallest increment it would allow (which is probably still more than I had). I used to measure all foods, until I discovered the discrepancy between weighing/measuring (I was eating 1c of cereal which turned out to be 2 servings due to the weight, even though it all fit in the cup), and now I weigh everything. The reason I try not to eat all of my exercise calories is partly I am not hungry and don't feel the need, and partly I feel like it leaves cushion for anything that is underestimated in the MFP database, or to allow for inaccuracies in my HRM.
I'm not really having a problem with plateau at the moment. I was a couple of months ago but then I decreased my goal from 1.5 to 1 pounds per week which upped my daily calories, and now I'm losing 1+ pounds per week, and showing decreases in inches in the right places.
FWIW, I'm not actually using this guy as a personal trainer. The assessment was a freebie offered by gym, in part to sell the personal training which is too steep for me considering I'm doing quite well on my own at the moment. I just found it to be interesting and slightly counter-intuitive advice. I have never really felt the need for 'cheat' days because I allow myself to have things that I enjoy on a regular basis so long as they fit. But there are definitely those days that come up where it is near to impossible to stay on target (parties, etc.), so I can see where it might be nice to know you can/should do this once in a while.0 -
I definitely think there's something to that. Prior to this past week, I had my daily target set at 1200. I changed my activity level, and my target increased to 1400. I had a "cheat" day on Friday (during which I ate chicken fingers, french fries, and CAKE). On Monday, I posted my biggest weekly loss yet at 3.6 lbs.
Granted, I do exercise a fair amount (I went to spinning twice and jogged/walked at least twice). But, I think increasing my calorie intake really boosted my weight loss.
I have a retirement party to attend this week. I think the menu will allow me to be reasonably healthy, but the dessert is my favorite cake from a small grocery market here. It's something that I never get to have because it is an hour away and I'm not driving that far to get a cake I'd have to eat all by myself. I think I will be indulging in the cake, which will likely push me over despite my daily workout. And I'm going to enjoy it, especially since it's TOM. And we'll see if there's anything to this, at least this week.0 -
There may be some physiological benefits from a "cheat day" but they aren't proven. That being said, there are emotional and psychological benefits. This can help with longer term compliance and keep you on track. One day a week or every other weeks doesn't derail your efforts. Enjoy the cake this weekend!0
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I definitely think there's something to that. Prior to this past week, I had my daily target set at 1200. I changed my activity level, and my target increased to 1400. I had a "cheat" day on Friday (during which I ate chicken fingers, french fries, and CAKE). On Monday, I posted my biggest weekly loss yet at 3.6 lbs.
Granted, I do exercise a fair amount (I went to spinning twice and jogged/walked at least twice). But, I think increasing my calorie intake really boosted my weight loss.
I ate about 1000 calories over last week and also posted my biggest loss. Of course mine was due to the fact that I just started Zumba and obviously underestimated the calorie burn. I'm over this week close to 700 but I haven't logged the zumba yet so we will see where it goes. Basically..my body told me it was hungry, so I ate. Considering I haven't been messing up my metabolism by starving myself the signals still work. If you have been under eating for longer than a couple months the signals stop working when your body starts slowing your metabolism to compensate for the lack of nutrients/calories.
The reason people have a 'cheat day ' is because they aren't eating enough to begin with..so if you just eat MORE every day you never have to have a cheat day to bump your calories since you will already have them to begin with.0 -
I did this the other day! Not on purpose.0
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RMR does decrease in response to a caloric deficit, however, trying to sidestep that by having a weekly cheat day is little more than wishful thinking.0
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There may be some physiological benefits from a "cheat day" but they aren't proven. That being said, there are emotional and psychological benefits. This can help with longer term compliance and keep you on track. One day a week or every other weeks doesn't derail your efforts. Enjoy the cake this weekend!
I definitely agree with the psychological benefits! Yes, eat a piece of cake, and don't feel guilty!0 -
RMR does decrease in response to a caloric deficit, however, trying to sidestep that by having a weekly cheat day is little more than wishful thinking.
This, one day of a slight surplus will not increase your metabolic rate for the coming week.0 -
I honestly don't think one day is going to change much.
I'll leave this here for your enjoyment: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break.html0 -
Weekends I up the complex carbs which obviously ups the calories...it helps to be flexible and also when you get really lean as well I have read (cycling the carbs, etc) to lose the last bit of fat...it is more psychological than anything as some previous posters have mentioned, as you are giving yourself a break from the rigid diet regimen...0
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And I want to trust him since he's a trainer.
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Sorry. Trainers usually suck when it comes to nutrition. Test out whatever you want to on your body and see if it works. Keep notes and records. If it doesn't work, adjust.
The reason he mentioned going higher is because your hormones can get out of whack if you stay on a calorie deficit for a prolonged period of time. You can spend of a week at maintenance or slightly over and adjust this and make your body happy again, then go back to the calorie deficit. But try and see what works for you. Remember that your body hates losing weight and a deficit is stressful, sometimes a break every 6-8 weeks can be helpful.0 -
Prolonged elevated cortisol adversely effects the body;s ability to process fat stores for energy. When this happens, energy must be utilized from other sources. These sources include muscle tissue and recent foods ingested. If you work out, the muscle tissue is less available as a source of energy, thus leaving the body mainly using recently ingested food.
If the body does not get enough calories to fuel activity (this includes being unable to take enough calories from fat stores), then the body will spend fewer calories throughout the day, simply adapting to what is available (this is why we don't drop dead from being short a single calorie).
Cortisol levels slowly increase based on prolonged caloric deficits, lack of sleep, and other forms of stress.
Fat loss is indeed calories in versus calories out. However, what you eat, and your hormone balance can greatly affect calories out.
Insufficient protein and/or fat, macro makeup, excess exercise, lack of sleep, VLCD, and much more can effect weight loss.
The idea of the "cheat day" is to offset the slowly built up stress caused by constantly eating in deficit. It plays off the idea that if you can only take 4 steps forward, the only way to go 10 steps is 4 forward, 1 backs, 4 forward, 1 back, 4 forward.
Many "BROs" have fairly decent advice for certain situations, but they lack a scientific understanding for the purpose of their advice, which sometimes causes them to give it in the incorrect spot.0 -
Prolonged elevated cortisol adversely effects the body;s ability to process fat stores for energy. When this happens, energy must be utilized from other sources. These sources include muscle tissue and recent foods ingested. If you work out, the muscle tissue is less available as a source of energy, thus leaving the body mainly using recently ingested food.
If the body does not get enough calories to fuel activity (this includes being unable to take enough calories from fat stores), then the body will spend fewer calories throughout the day, simply adapting to what is available (this is why we don't drop dead from being short a single calorie).
Cortisol levels slowly increase based on prolonged caloric deficits, lack of sleep, and other forms of stress.
Fat loss is indeed calories in versus calories out. However, what you eat, and your hormone balance can greatly affect calories out.
Insufficient protein and/or fat, macro makeup, excess exercise, lack of sleep, VLCD, and much more can effect weight loss.
The idea of the "cheat day" is to offset the slowly built up stress caused by constantly eating in deficit. It plays off the idea that if you can only take 4 steps forward, the only way to go 10 steps is 4 forward, 1 backs, 4 forward, 1 back, 4 forward.
Many "BROs" have fairly decent advice for certain situations, but they lack a scientific understanding for the purpose of their advice, which sometimes causes them to give it in the incorrect spot.
I'm not *entirely* sure you're saying you are in favor of the trainer's advice, or no?0 -
Also I looked at the calculations and stuff on your blog just for kicks, and the deficit goal max completely lost me. :P
If I use Scooby's calculator, I have TDEE of 1801. MFP sets my BMR at 1426 (Scooby's says 1501 but I used MFP since that was your reference point). This is all fine. Gives me goal calories of 1613.5.
When I do the BF calculator it shows 62.4 pounds BF, which using the formula you list gives me 2184 for deficit goal max. I don't really understand what this number is for or how it works. Even when I do the further calculation of TDEE - Goal Calories (187.5), this is less than the deficit goal max by A LOT. I'm not sure what to do with that. Because the difference is so big I feel I must be doing something wrong mathematically, or misunderstanding what you are explaining.
I've been looking at some of these calculations and doing some (light) research in case I hit another plateau. Having solved the first one by reducing my goal from 1.5 pounds to 1 pound, moving up definitely seemed to help. I'm exploring options, but I feel like I'm doing it wrong.
Granted, all of this is a MAJOR aside from my original topic so I apologize, but I'm curious.0 -
This is called calorie cycling, and it's a wonderful thing.
I'm not a dietary science expert, but I will tell you this worked wonders for me. Not only does it give you more leeway and flexibility (I ate higher amounts on the weekend, and a lower amount during the week), but it keeps your metabolism revved up.
I can't recommend this enough.0 -
http://www.healthyweightforum.org/eng/weight-loss/calorie-shifting.asp I don't necessarily believe everything on here... I just looked it up for the chart really. But this might help shed some light. I have heard it called something else but I can't remember.0
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This is called calorie cycling, and it's a wonderful thing.
I'm not a dietary science expert, but I will tell you this worked wonders for me. Not only does it give you more leeway and flexibility (I ate higher amounts on the weekend, and a lower amount during the week), but it keeps your metabolism revved up.
I can't recommend this enough.
THANK you. I couldn't remember what it was and now I do. I use this basically all the time and purposefully go over calories sometimes too. "Cheat day" "Craving Day" whatever you call it.. it works. http://www.freedieting.com/tools/calorie_calculator.htm Try that.0
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